1 minute ago, ShortTimed said:

DescriptionJihad is an Arabic word which literally means striving or struggling, especially with a praiseworthy aim. Wikipedia

 

You don't say

I don't believe ordinary people will ever know the truth about this shooter. He could just as easily be a North Korean sleeper who at the behest of their chinese paymasters has committed the act. For various nefarious purposes. Do you think for a moment that if that was true it would be revealed to the public. I just don't believe that some country boy who was a muscle freak in a sleepy town goes round writing manifestos, funding himself (with what) to travel around the world, laying a trail of red herrings, then ending up in NZ purchasing weapons and planning an attack. Someone controlled him. Trump rings up Arden straight afterwards offering condolences and asking what the US could do to help. Instead of asking him for full cooperation of US intelligence community and assets she asked him to love the muslims more, when hard headed pragmatism was needed she came up with starry eyed emotions. Having said that she's been doing a fine job on the post event PR whitewash.

1 minute ago, Bluetongue said:

I don't believe ordinary people will ever know the truth about this shooter. He could just as easily be a North Korean sleeper who at the behest of their chinese paymasters has committed the act. For various nefarious purposes. Do you think for a moment that if that was true it would be revealed to the public. I just don't believe that some country boy who was a muscle freak in a sleepy town goes round writing manifestos, funding himself (with what) to travel around the world, laying a trail of red herrings, then ending up in NZ purchasing weapons and planning an attack. Someone controlled him. Trump rings up Arden straight afterwards offering condolences and asking what the US could do to help. Instead of asking him for full cooperation of US intelligence community and assets she asked him to love the muslims more, when hard headed pragmatism was needed she came up with starry eyed emotions. Having said that she's been doing a fine job on the post event PR whitewash.

I've been waiting for a good conspiracy theory

4 minutes ago, Bluetongue said:

I don't believe ordinary people will ever know the truth about this shooter. He could just as easily be a North Korean sleeper who at the behest of their chinese paymasters has committed the act.

Absolutely spot on. The only problem I have with this is where to bring in Jason Bourne. 

Absolutely spot on. The only problem I have with this is where to bring in Jason Bourne. 

Jason Bourne was fired for making comments that@MeToo took offense to.

6 minutes ago, Bluetongue said:

I don't believe ordinary people will ever know the truth about this shooter. He could just as easily be a North Korean sleeper who at the behest of their chinese paymasters has committed the act. For various nefarious purposes. Do you think for a moment that if that was true it would be revealed to the public. I just don't believe that some country boy who was a muscle freak in a sleepy town goes round writing manifestos, funding himself (with what) to travel around the world, laying a trail of red herrings, then ending up in NZ purchasing weapons and planning an attack. Someone controlled him. Trump rings up Arden straight afterwards offering condolences and asking what the US could do to help. Instead of asking him for full cooperation of US intelligence community and assets she asked him to love the muslims more, when hard headed pragmatism was needed she came up with starry eyed emotions. Having said that she's been doing a fine job on the post event PR whitewash.

I love these little posts.

 

There to create doubt, stir up the 'whataboutisms'. A bit of a kick to the victims religion. A bit of a conspiracy.

 

But when it comes down to it, doesn't take much to drive a massive truck through the holes in the story. In particular, this big one. NZ is a member of the 5-eyes network. Basically all the English speaking western allies.

 

They already have the fullest of the full co-operation of ALL of the other members. It need not be asked for, its already there.

 

But thanks for the bit of light entertainment from trollsville. Hope you and your milita buddies are having fun.

Trump rings up Arden straight afterwards offering condolences and asking what the US could do to help. Instead of asking him for full cooperation of US intelligence community and assets she asked him to love the muslims more, when hard headed pragmatism was needed she came up with starry eyed emotions.

Nicely said.

There are already a few conspiracy theories. 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213893

 

1 minute ago, sonos99 said:

There are already a few conspiracy theories. 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213893

Yes, but are they any good?

18 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

Nicely said.

Also, just a disingenuous myth:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

10 hours ago, Spidey said:

 

 

The attacker, in this case, had an allegiance to white supremacist groups...

1

 

Which white supremacist groups was he involved with? 

 

He claimed to be an eco-fascist as well..

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Which white supremacist groups was he involved with? 

 

He claimed to be an eco-fascist as well..

One example is currently being investigated by Austrian police. His manifesto expressed admiration for a number of white supremacist mass killers. BTW why are you attempting to deflect / deny?

One example is currently being investigated by Austrian police. His manifesto expressed admiration for a number of white supremacist mass killers. BTW why are you attempting to deflect / deny?

 

This is not how a dialogue is encouraged. This is just a way to attack.

A different opinion is only a different opinion and giving it one of these negative labels discourages the exchange that you ask for because it is framed on the assumption that the only possible answer is already established and it is the yours.

 

If you want to encourage a dialogue then omit the last sentence. The first part of your post is accurate and informative.

 

The NZ shooter had given donations to a fellow nutter in Austria in the low four digit range while other white power nutters had typically made donations in the low 100s.

 

The police in Austria made a search of this guys home to establish if any additional relationship exists such as a sleeper cell...for lack of a better term.

49 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

This is not how a dialogue is encouraged. This is just a way to attack.

A different opinion is only a different opinion and giving it one of these negative labels discourages the exchange that you ask for because it is framed on the assumption that the only possible answer is already established and it is the yours.

 

If you want to encourage a dialogue then omit the last sentence. The first part of your post is accurate and informative.

 

The NZ shooter had given donations to a fellow nutter in Austria in the low four digit range while other white power nutters had typically made donations in the low 100s.

 

The police in Austria made a search of this guys home to establish if any additional relationship exists such as a sleeper cell...for lack of a better term.

What on earth is there to debate? In your opinion is the mass murderer not affiliated to white supremacist ideology despite his manifesto clearly stating he is? To question / deflect the killers clearly articulated ideological motivations are nothing more than attempts at apologist propaganda.

 

Even though the current Austrian government heavily leans to the 'right', they are actively considering banning the group under police investigation due to their extremist far right ideology.

What on earth is there to debate? In your opinion is the mass murderer not affiliated to white supremacist ideology despite his manifesto clearly stating he is? To question / deflect the killers clearly articulated ideological motivations are nothing more than attempts at apologist propaganda.
 
Even though the current Austrian government heavily leans to the 'right', they are actively considering banning the group under police investigation due to their extremist far right ideology.

How many cups of coffee have you already had this morning? You sound wired...Lol

Yes he was influenced by white power ideology.

That is not the same thing as being a member of a white power group or cell.

Was this mass shooting an individual or group attack? I think the authorities are saying individual lone wolf attack.

13 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

Yes he was influenced by white power ideology. That is not the same thing as being a member of a white power group or cell. Was this mass shooting an individual or group attack? I think the authorities are saying individual lone wolf attack.

 

I think you'll find that the group to which simple1 is referring is an Austrian group, not any group to which the Australian gunman belonged

I think you'll find that the group to which simple1 is referring is an Austrian group, not any group to which the Australian gunman belonged

Thanks.
That was my understanding also.

21 hours ago, samran said:

Also, just a disingenuous myth:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes

"intelligence organisation that does not answer to the known laws of its own countries" to quote Snowden from your Wikipedia article. So in the first part of my post I was going far fetched with the conspiracy theory to illustrate a point which was; we will never know the truth about the shooter. Don't expect that subtlety was obvious to some readers. FVEY would not tell Ardern but they might have told Trump in certain circumstances.

8 hours ago, Bluetongue said:

"intelligence organisation that does not answer to the known laws of its own countries" to quote Snowden from your Wikipedia article. So in the first part of my post I was going far fetched with the conspiracy theory to illustrate a point which was; we will never know the truth about the shooter

 

On 3/27/2019 at 12:54 PM, Bluetongue said:

I don't believe ordinary people will ever know the truth about this shooter. He could just as easily be a North Korean sleeper who at the behest of their chinese paymasters has committed the act. For various nefarious purposes. Do you think for a moment that if that was true it would be revealed to the public. I just don't believe that some country boy who was a muscle freak in a sleepy town goes round writing manifestos, funding himself (with what) to travel around the world, laying a trail of red herrings, then ending up in NZ purchasing weapons and planning an attack. Someone controlled him. Trump rings up Arden straight afterwards offering condolences and asking what the US could do to help. Instead of asking him for full cooperation of US intelligence community and assets she asked him to love the muslims more, when hard headed pragmatism was needed she came up with starry eyed emotions. Having said that she's been doing a fine job on the post event PR whitewash.

Your posts are full of the standard tripe which does the rounds in the alt right echo chambers and which bubbles to the surface in forums such as this. 

 

Step 1: maintain the shooter wasn’t one of ‘us’.

 

Water muddying ‘oh we don’t really know the motives of the shooter’ -cause the fact that he was a Muslim hating white supremist doesn’t suit the alt-rights narrative the shooter was one and was inspired by them.

 

It doesn’t sit the narrative that the white supremist that are the same form of sub-species that bred ISIS. Same same but different as they say here. 

 

You blokes will do anything to differentiate him and make him someone else’s creation. Other versions of this spin we saw included statements that he was really an eco warrior communist and other BS. 

 

Step two: spin some more fake news about something you would have absolutely no way of knowing - but which feeble minded readers will take as gospel. 

 

So while you are sowing doubt on that front, you speak with absolute certainty on what Donnie and Ardern spoke about on the phone, again, cause it suits your agenda to paint the victims as ‘other’ and the NZ prime minister as some sort of incompetent fool. 

 

Other examples of this spin strategy were that the NZ police were slow to respond and that one of the victims actually had a gun to fight back ( he didn’t) and thus, imagine what would have happened if those kiwi gun laws weren’t so strict  (ergo, we need to arm everyone)..

 

anyway, keep your stories coming. But if you could add in a Jason Bourne angle, they’d be even more entertaing.

 

 

 

 

19 hours ago, simple1 said:

One example is currently being investigated by Austrian police. His manifesto expressed admiration for a number of white supremacist mass killers. BTW why are you attempting to deflect / deny?

I'm not attempting to defect or deny anything, I was asking a question, which you were either unable or unwilling to answer, yet you chose to respond anyway.

 

Perhaps you're the one attemting to deflect / deny.

 

On 3/27/2019 at 9:43 PM, Yellowtail said:

 

Which white supremacist groups was he involved with? 

 

He claimed to be an eco-fascist as well..

^^^^ That deflection ^^^^^^^

12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I'm not attempting to defect or deny anything, I was asking a question, which you were either unable or unwilling to answer, yet you chose to respond anyway.

 

Perhaps you're the one attemting to deflect / deny.

 

Rubbish. I answered your question. The killer admires & is sympathetic to a number of violent extreme far right people & groups, including genocidal Serbian Christians. The info is widely available. Samran's post above is an excellent response to nonsensical questions / comments / 'likes' from the 'right of centre' on this forum.

 
Which white supremacist groups was he involved with? 
 
He claimed to be an eco-fascist as well..

^^^^ That deflection ^^^^^^^

Genuine question:

Is this really deflection?
It sounds like a fair bit of evidence when looking at motivations of shooter.

If he was angry about many things and not only muslims then it shows he was a real angry nutter and not specific to white power nazis.

47 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

 

 

Genuine question:

Is this really deflection?
It sounds like a fair bit of evidence when looking at motivations of shooter.

If he was angry about many things and not only muslims then it shows he was a real angry nutter and not specific to white power nazis.

 

 

 

You keep bringing up this idea of a 'lone wolf' a ''nutter' and 'other evidence.... not specific to white power Nazis'.

The guy wrote a manifesto talking exactly about white power and killed 50 Muslims in a mosque. If he's not a white supremacist then he's giving a helluva good impression of one.   

You keep bringing up this idea of a 'lone wolf' a ''nutter' and 'other evidence.... not specific to white power Nazis'. The guy wrote a manifesto talking exactly about white power and killed 50 Muslims in a mosque. If he's not a white supremacist then he's giving a helluva good impression of one.   

 

 

No response to the question on deflection then?

I thought it rather obvious he was a white power type who hated muslims since they were his victims. I hadn’t realized you needed such confirmations with every post. Can we move forward now?

 

I simply asked how many issues was the guy angry at? Don’t see much interest in reading a nutters 70-page manifesto to find out.

 

So all I asked is if he is angry at many issues then why is mentioning that a deflection.

 

9 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

No response to the question on deflection then?

I thought it rather obvious he was a white power type who hated muslims since they were his victims. I hadn’t realized you needed such confirmations with every post. Can we move forward now?

 

I simply asked how many issues was the guy angry at? Don’t see much interest in reading a nutters 70-page manifesto to find out.

 

So all I asked is if he is angry at many issues then why is mentioning that a deflection.

 

By Yellowtail saying 'Which white supremacist groups was he involved with? He claimed to be an eco-fascist as well..' he is inferring that his motivations could equally be eco-fascism to being a white supremacist.

That's called deflection as he is attempting to deflect away from the very obvious conclusion that this 'nutter' was a white supremacist.

Got it?

17 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

No response to the question on deflection then?

I thought it rather obvious he was a white power type who hated muslims since they were his victims. I hadn’t realized you needed such confirmations with every post. Can we move forward now?

 

I simply asked how many issues was the guy angry at? Don’t see much interest in reading a nutters 70-page manifesto to find out.

 

So all I asked is if he is angry at many issues then why is mentioning that a deflection.

 

Look, no doubt he probably had other grievances. His footy team might not have made the finals last year, and the winter on the South Island can be pretty awful, so he might not have been looking forward to summer ending, but whatever they are....it doesn’t lessen is moral culpability in this instance, so trying to raise them as some sort of mitigating factor (even if only implied) is beside the point. 

By Yellowtail saying 'Which white supremacist groups was he involved with? He claimed to be an eco-fascist as well..' he is inferring that his motivations could equally be eco-fascism to being a white supremacist.
That's called deflection as he is attempting to deflect away from the very obvious conclusion that this 'nutter' was a white supremacist.
Got it?

I did not see the inference. I am accustomed to people speaking clearly rather than inferring. Especially important on a forum.

Nor did I see him use the word “equal”.
Obviously his choosing a mosque suggests his priority.

I just wondered how many things in this world the guy was railing against.

That was all.

2 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

 

I did not see the inference. I am accustomed to people speaking clearly rather than inferring. Especially important on a forum.

Nor did I see him use the word “equal”.
Obviously his choosing a mosque suggests his priority.

I just wondered how many things in this world the guy was railing against.

That was all.

 

 

 

Look I get it and I don't want to come across as too pedantic but you do keep bringing up what most of us see is a very obvious deflection from a poster who isn't exactly a liberal (perhaps our previous knowledge of the poster leads us also to this conclusion). 

I am all for people asking genuine questions that they need clarification on (which I do believe is the case with you) but you must be kinda new to this forum as this sort of thing goes on all the time with people posting nonsense inference all the time without anything to back it up. This was a guy with a lot of issues (obviously) and perhaps there was many reasons why he did what he did, but the nature of the attack (shooting 50 Muslims in a mosque) clearly demonstrates the overriding premise that he is a white supremacist and any attempt to veer away from that narrative just comes across as deflection in an attempt to justify their own prejudices. As the saying goes; if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck......... 

And the word 'equally' was my word not his. But it still rings true.