Student union petitions Democrats to join Pheu Thai-led coalition

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, pornprong said:

Thaksin has yet to ever boycott an election, alter a constitution to make it less democratic, sack and replace the entire Election Commission with his own cronies, not accept the results of an election.......the list goes on.

 

Unfortunately for you, facts are facts and the fact is that Thaksin is the most democratic PM Thailand has ever had.

 

It seems the most of Thailand and the all the international media organisations sees the battle as being between pro-democracy and pro-dictatorship camps.

 

In fact so common is the reference pro-democracy versus pro-dictatorship the the leader of the Palang Pracharat party pleaded with the press to stop using the terms pro-dictatorship to describe his side.

 

There are only 2 groups who deny the pro-democracy versus pro dictatorship paradigm, they are:

 

1. The pro-dictatorship supporters (for obvious reasons)

2. TVF closet fascists scrambling to continue to justify their support of dictatorship by continuing to dress it up as opposition to Thaksin.

 

You prefer Future Forward and Future Forward prefers Thaksin, how ironic.

 

As for your list of villains, get ready to update it.

 

There are calls for Future Forward to be dissolved and its leader, Thanathorn, to be barred from politics for being a threat to national security and the monarchy. Thanathorn sits now, precisely in the position that Thaksin occupied in 2005 - the number one threat to the entrenched elites continued rule.

 

Five years from now the only difference in the above sentence will be instead of Thaksin, you'll be typing Thanathorn as you carry on cheerleading the anti-democratic forces at work in this country.

 

The fig leaf is well and truly gone.

 

Thaksin the honest; Yingluck the Innocent. Champions of democracy who'd stand shoulder to shoulder with demonstrators when the bullets fly and be willing to die on the field of democracy.

 

As long as it didn't clash with a overseas luxury shopping trip to one of the world's most expensive capitals!

 

Get real. Recognizing the crooked Thaksin and his crooked family for what they are isn't supporting the Junta. And your continued attempts to discredit any who post against the Shins by claiming they must be undemocratic fascist closet Junta fans is, well, transparently pathetic.

[pornprong]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Thaksin the honest; Yingluck the Innocent. Champions of democracy who'd stand shoulder to shoulder with demonstrators when the bullets fly and be willing to die on the field of democracy.

 

As long as it didn't clash with a overseas luxury shopping trip to one of the world's most expensive capitals!

 

Get real. Recognizing the crooked Thaksin and his crooked family for what they are isn't supporting the Junta. And your continued attempts to discredit any who post against the Shins by claiming they must be undemocratic fascist closet Junta fans is, well, transparently pathetic.

is, well, transparently pathetic. true.

Edited April 2, 2019 by pornprong

[pornprong]

12 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Agree - neither can be trusted as the are both self serving. Why some want to pretend PTP aren't is just silly.

 

As we are now seeing, being untrustworthy seems a qualification for politics anywhere in the world!

Your inability to make statement about the junta without referencing Thaksin exposes you.

[pornprong]

25 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Thaksin himself stated democracy wasn't his objective. He has mercenaries, street thugs and managed control over the police but never the military. His only option is 'democracy". Any Thaksin owned political party supports the Shins first, and last, period. 

 

Were he to wangle an amnesty and return to lead a government he'd work fast and hard to make himself and his clan as fixed in power as Maduro, Hun Sen or the Lees. Just look at how his PTP reacted when losing by-election whilst in power. 

 

You might get one or two votes under PTP but once they started loosing control watch them change. 

 

The Junta are transparent in what they are; and so are PTP. 

 

Stop pretending otherwise. Too many posters on here lived through Thaksin regimes, the lies and corruption and the attempts at re-writing history.

 

Do you deny the Krungthai Bank Fraud? The Pastry Gate saga? etc etc etc.

 

The Thai people deserve a real government, not some elites running the country for themselves. And the Shins are also elites who want it all for themselves.

But, but Thaksin.

Oh no, you most definitely are not obsessed.

LOL

Here's the real kicker.

Even if all the nonsense you've posted above were true, Thaksin would still be the less corrupt, less criminal option for Thailand when compared to those you support.

 

BTW - is there any junta propaganda you have not ingested hook, line and sinker? Good news for you though, there's about to be plenty more garbage for you to gobble up as the junta ramps up its campaign to vilify Thanathorn.

 

But, but, but.........etc!

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by pornprong

[ramrod711]

17 hours ago, pornprong said:

Nonsense.

 

https://opinion.inquirer.net/100628/lets-look-thailands-war-drugs

 

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2007/08/2275-where-did-this-number-come-from/

I have responded to a member using Asiancorrespondent before. Crap source, bunch of bloggers, find a better source, get a more accurate result. Don't obsess.

[ramrod711]

3 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

I have responded to a member using Asiancorrespondent before. Crap source, bunch of bloggers, find a better source, get a more accurate result. Don't obsess.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2008/03/12/thailands-war-drugs

Here you go Human Rights Watch. Not exactly a group of bloggers attempting to make a buck. Extremely accurate and fair though. As I said, take a deep breath an don't obsess.

[candide]

11 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

I have responded to a member using Asiancorrespondent before. Crap source, bunch of bloggers, find a better source, get a more accurate result. Don't obsess.

Whatever the true number of killed people, there should be an extensive investigation about this event. It will never happen.

[Eric Loh]

Just now, candide said:

Whatever the true number of killed people, there should be an extensive investigation about this event. It will never happen.

I see similarity with Thaksin war on drugs resulting in deaths and Ahbisit/Suthep killings of the red shirts. investigations were completed but none implicated. Thailand remain trapped in the shadows of despair.  

[pornprong]

20 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

I have responded to a member using Asiancorrespondent before. Crap source, bunch of bloggers, find a better source, get a more accurate result. Don't obsess.

Hahaha, this from someone who takes the likes of Suthep and Prayuth at their word.

 

Asian Correspondent is an independent news source that aims to bring the most important stories in Asia to an international, English-speaking audience. We combine original features from writers and bloggers across Asia with some of the world’s best reporting from the Reuters wires. Asian Correspondent’s coverage offers insight into politics, media and education from Bangkok to Beijing and brings you the stories that rarely make it into English media.

 

Yeah, lets dismiss a reputable news organisation whilst at the same time believing an old clown who says his dead friend lent him 25 watches - geez you junta boys are something else.

[SheungWan]

Its good to see the Thaksinistas back with their "Its Not About Thaksin" mantra. Nostalgia Time. Odd move though by Thaksin to try and rope in an inappropriate person to run for PM although it didn't work out too well. Surely Thaksin hasn't run out of siblings and other relatives? 

[Eric Loh]

16 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Its good to see the Thaksinistas back with their "Its Not About Thaksin" mantra. Nostalgia Time. Odd move though by Thaksin to try and rope in an inappropriate person to run for PM although it didn't work out too well. Surely Thaksin hasn't run out of siblings and other relatives? 

Then you got to credit the first posting to try divert and confuse by bringing Thaksin into the conversation when all media described this election as pro-democracy against pro-military fight. 

[khunken]

22 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Then you got to credit the first posting to try divert and confuse by bringing Thaksin into the conversation when all media described this election as pro-democracy against pro-military fight. 

Actually you and Pornprong are doing a lot more 'confusing' by deliberately attempting to claim, perversely, that Thaksin is not involved in PT and their parties. Others here have made it clear that Thaksin's record of rule bore very little of the pillars of democracy, so it doesn't need repeating.

 

Having said that I do think the students are right in trying to get the Democrat party into supporting te PT/FFP coalition. If the coalition were to come out and guarantee - in writing - that there would be no more 'amnesty' attempts, that would be a very attractive move & might sway enough Democrat party members to support them.

[Eric Loh]

20 minutes ago, bannork said:

Pheua Thai have tried to paint the election in those terms, describing themselves as pro-democracy.

The owner isn't but he could be described as more democratic than Uncle Tu. It's all relative.

 

The academics were already labeling this election as pro-democracy against pro-military even before official campaigning started. The media were reporting almost daily between these 2 election sides. Just one for your consumption below.

 

  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/22/thailands-first-election-in-eight-years-not-free-or-fair-say-democracy-activists

 

The narrative that it was PTP that coined that was only propagated by Thaksin haters as it was just so convenient to blame all to him. Nothing is relative between one who stand for election and one who seized power and rigged the rules in order to steal an election; period.

 

And the bit about Thaksin's involvement is rich. EC has been trying to find evidence to link Thaksin's influence in order to dissolve the party but unable to find anything but yet we have posters here that will swear that he was involved. 

 

 

 

 

[gamini]

20 hours ago, Brigand said:

The "Democrats" have an image issue with their name and it needs to change as it does not sync with their MO/actions. You can't call yourselves "The Democrat Party" and then support a military junta or a rigged election...come on. 

The Democrats did not support the military government, and there was never a rigged election. You obviously weren't here at the time. Abhisit was fairly elected as PM by majority of MPs and did not need the military's help, because the only person opposing him was an unknown police officer. 

[robblok]

16 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The academics were already labeling this election as pro-democracy against pro-military even before official campaigning started. The media were reporting almost daily between these 2 election sides. Just one for your consumption below.

 

  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/22/thailands-first-election-in-eight-years-not-free-or-fair-say-democracy-activists

 

The narrative that it was PTP that coined that was only propagated by Thaksin haters as it was just so convenient to blame all to him. Nothing is relative between one who stand for election and one who seized power and rigged the rules in order to steal an election; period.

 

And the bit about Thaksin's involvement is rich. EC has been trying to find evidence to link Thaksin's influence in order to dissolve the party but unable to find anything but yet we have posters here that will swear that he was involved. 

 

 

 

 

Proving involvement in a court of law is a lot harder then knowing it. Unless you think Thaksin is that stupid. 

 

Only a fool would think that Thaksin has let control of the PTP go.  Proving it in court, that is a totally different matter. 

[candide]

7 minutes ago, gamini said:

The Democrats did not support the military government, and there was never a rigged election. You obviously weren't here at the time. Abhisit was fairly elected as PM by majority of MPs and did not need the military's help, because the only person opposing him was an unknown police officer. 

Abhisit did not support the military, lol. Actually the military helped to put him into power, and in turn he made everything he could to make sure that Prayuth would be appointed army chief in 2010.

He also played his part in the 2014 orchestration of events that prevented elections to be held and led to the coup, even if he was obviouly less visible than Suthep.

[Artisi]

7 hours ago, crazykopite said:

At the end of the day there has been an election regardless who has won I have to ask why has the military not returned to barracks there is no longer a need for them as long as they are on the streets then the junta is in charge and the good people of Thailand did not vote for that.

Why, have to keep the peasants and the non-believers in order.... 

[bannork]

Here's part of a letter Korn's brother wrote to The Financial Times. Funny how he doesn't mention, at least in this part, the millions of votes Future Forward got. The Young Dems have got a struggle on their hands with opinions like these .https://www.ft.com/todaysnewspaper/uk

[pornprong]

1 hour ago, gamini said:

The Democrats did not support the military government, and there was never a rigged election. You obviously weren't here at the time. Abhisit was fairly elected as PM by majority of MPs and did not need the military's help, because the only person opposing him was an unknown police officer. 

You obviously aren't here (real world) now.

 

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2008/12/arm-twisting/

 

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2008/12/cockroach-party/

 

Isn't it fascinating how history keeps repeating itself.

When the day eventually arrives, I wonder how closely Prayuth's obituary will resemble that of General Sunthorn Kongsompong

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1999/08/04/sunthorn-kongsompong-dies/9fb9baa4-87fb-469d-94ca-7818f886f111/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.af6d22db0c0d 

Edited April 2, 2019 by pornprong

[pornprong]

19 minutes ago, bannork said:

Here's part of a letter Korn's brother wrote to The Financial Times. Funny how he doesn't mention, at least in this part, the millions of votes Future Forward got. The Young Dems have got a struggle on their hands with opinions like these .https://www.ft.com/todaysnewspaper/uk

This peanut would want to start churning out a shitload more letters if he is to keep the ongoing farce that is the bumbling junta, fumbling election commission and grumbling army chief off the front pages of the world's press.

 

He is right about one thing though, the election was about the country's stance on military rule.

Stamp of approval, not really is it.

Failure to win your own rigged election is more a "stamp of incompetence" I would think.

 

[chama]

On 4/1/2019 at 9:15 AM, pornprong said:

No, it will be a coalition with a very strong junior partner - Future Forward and should the Democrats join, there would be 2 very strong junior partners.

I suspect neath wants to have there image tainted by joining the Phew Thai in a relationship of any sort out of concern for their long term possibilities for attracting voters.

[pornprong]

46 minutes ago, chama said:

I suspect neath wants to have there image tainted by joining the Phew Thai in a relationship of any sort out of concern for their long term possibilities for attracting voters.

Well then, you would be suspecting wrong in regards to Future Forward as they have already joined Pheu Thais coalition.

 

Long term issues are not really anything that the Democrat Party has to worry about anymore as they won't be around for much longer - they danced with the devil and lost.

 

Thailands best hope for the future is to be represented by Pheu Thai on the Left and Future Forward on the right. These two parties, respecting the will of the voters, dutifully alternating between government and opposition as the ballot box dictates - there is no room for the Democrats or Palang Pracharat or Abhisit, or Prayuth or Suthep or Prawit and so on.

[bannork]

43 minutes ago, pornprong said:

Well then, you would be suspecting wrong in regards to Future Forward as they have already joined Pheu Thais coalition.

 

Long term issues are not really anything that the Democrat Party has to worry about anymore as they won't be around for much longer - they danced with the devil and lost.

 

Thailands best hope for the future is to be represented by Pheu Thai on the Left and Future Forward on the right. These two parties, respecting the will of the voters, dutifully alternating between government and opposition as the ballot box dictates - there is no room for the Democrats or Palang Pracharat or Abhisit, or Prayuth or Suthep or Prawit and so on.

Come on pornprong, it's April 2nd, not the 1st.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

Proving involvement in a court of law is a lot harder then knowing it. Unless you think Thaksin is that stupid. 

 

Only a fool would think that Thaksin has let control of the PTP go.  Proving it in court, that is a totally different matter. 

So how do you KNOW it?

 

If it cannot be proved in a court, and they have a lot more information than you, from a lot more sources, all you have is your opinion.

 

Your opinion is worth just as much as anybody else's.

 

For instance I could say that Thaksin is as pure as the driven snow, but it would be only my opinion.

 

Do you not think that by now the government would have shut down the PTP if they could prove it, even in the courts as bent as they are in Thailand?

 

They have had YEARS to obtain the evidence but has there been a prosecution yet?

[billd766]

6 hours ago, khunken said:

Actually you and Pornprong are doing a lot more 'confusing' by deliberately attempting to claim, perversely, that Thaksin is not involved in PT and their parties. Others here have made it clear that Thaksin's record of rule bore very little of the pillars of democracy, so it doesn't need repeating.

 

Having said that I do think the students are right in trying to get the Democrat party into supporting te PT/FFP coalition. If the coalition were to come out and guarantee - in writing - that there would be no more 'amnesty' attempts, that would be a very attractive move & might sway enough Democrat party members to support them.

The current government was not bothered about a late night attempt about an amnesty.

One of there first acts after taken power was to grant themselves an amnesty for ALL past, present and future actions.

 

They did not bother about a 4 am vote, they just openly did it, not worrying in the slightest that it was just another illegal act.

[khunken]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

The current government was not bothered about a late night attempt about an amnesty.

One of there first acts after taken power was to grant themselves an amnesty for ALL past, present and future actions.

 

They did not bother about a 4 am vote, they just openly did it, not worrying in the slightest that it was just another illegal act.

Rather irrelevant to the point I was making. I'm not disputing what you said but what dictatorship anywhere in the world wouldn't do that?

The topic is about the students' petition so have you anything positive to contribute to that?

BTW The military didn't find any (or sufficient) evidence to disband PT but they sure as hades did for PT2 (Thai Raksa Chart).

[BestB]

It would be wise and only option to get rid of uncle and his cronies . Change the constitution and then can go your separate ways.

 

sometimes bending your principles or biting your tongue for a short period of time for the sake of the future is the only way forward 

[BestB]

On 4/1/2019 at 7:27 PM, Bluespunk said:

Yeah right, give power to a thaksin controlled govt.

 

I have no time or illusions about the current regime, but PT are in many ways no better.

 

People are free to vote PT into power [or should be], but the Dems voter base chose not to put PT into power through their choice at the ballot box.

 

PT would chew up, spit out and stomp on the remains of the Dems if they were idiotic enough to ally themselves to them.

 

Dream on...

Thaksin and Co with all their corruption and stealing still did more and gave more for the people and the country than current lot has on 4 years.

 

not white washing thaksin and co but fact remains , while they were stealing the also allowed for everyone else to have a piece of a pie, current mob have taken triple as much and have not shared an inch

[Bluespunk]

11 minutes ago, BestB said:

Thaksin and Co with all their corruption and stealing still did more and gave more for the people and the country than current lot has on 4 years.

 

not white washing thaksin and co but fact remains , while they were stealing the also allowed for everyone else to have a piece of a pie, current mob have taken triple as much and have not shared an inch

Completely share your assessment of the current govt.

 

I do not share your positive view of what the thaksin and his subsequent puppet regimes did.

 

The only good things were the minimum wage (and that was set way too low) and the health scheme. 

 

Their treatment of the rice rice farmers in the second year of the scheme is unforgivable. 

 

Don’t get me wrong, I have no time for the current regime and believe the people have every right to vote his parties, or whoever they wish, into govt, but I do not believe pt to be trustworthy with power.  

Edited April 2, 2019 by Bluespunk

[greeneking]

2 hours ago, BestB said:

It would be wise and only option to get rid of uncle and his cronies . Change the constitution and then can go your separate ways.

 

sometimes bending your principles or biting your tongue for a short period of time for the sake of the future is the only way forward 

The priority must be to get rid of the guns and uniforms, the entitlements and the medals.

Shut the barrack gates, put on the padlocks and fill them with superglue.

There will be no support from those who think 1932 was the start of the rot.