Do Residents Of Thailand Need To Declare All Their Assets?

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

21 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

I don't know about every country in the world but to the best of my knowledge, for most of them you only have to declare what is considered to be your taxable income according to the tax laws of that country. That is a long way from having to declare all your assets worldwide.

did you hear about CRS? according to google, thailand should join it in 2022...so i want to be prepared,

if you know what i mean

[wordchild]

9 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

did you hear about CRS? according to google, thailand should join it in 2022...so i want to be prepared,

if you know what i mean

Maybe worth you reading more about what exactly the CRS is before you worsen your, possibly pre-existing,  hypertension!

Edited April 7, 2019 by wordchild

[NCC1701A]

13 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

so i want to be prepared,

if you know what i mean

it think you should worry about world wide total and complete economic collapse.

 

what do you have in place for that?  

[userabcd]

16 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

did you hear about CRS? according to google, thailand should join it in 2022...so i want to be prepared,

if you know what i mean

How do you prepare for CRS? It is for financial institutions to report account holders assets information to tax authorities who will then share that information automatically.

[GroveHillWanderer]

5 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

did you hear about CRS? according to google, thailand should join it in 2022.

Did you hear about not crossing your bridges before you come to them? If and when the Thai tax code requires all tax-residents to declare all assets world-wide (if it ever does) I'll worry about it then. I'm not going to get myself all bent out of shape about it just yet.

 

According to the website globalcompliancenews.com, even after CRS comes in, it's still not clear that all worldwide assets will need to be declared. Their assessment of what it will mean in Thailand is as follows:

 

Quote

Determining if and how a given income from offshore investment needs to be declared and whether there is unpaid tax is a complex undertaking requiring examination of the specifics of each situation. For example, foreign-sourced personal income is only taxable if brought into Thailand within the same year it is earned, while corporate income tax is imposed on worldwide income regardless of whether the income is repatriated to Thailand. 

 

[vibration]

I am a British Citizen who has lived and worked in Norway most of my life and that is where I get my pension from.

 

Two of our neighbours work in the tax office where we live and I inquired some years back if I need to pay tax on my worldwide assets as I stay in Thailand more than 180 days per year. I was told that I only have to pay tax on money sent to Thailand in the year it was derived thus if I wait until a later year than the one in which it was derived I don have to pay tax on it as it is classed as savings. 

 

Norway has a tax treaty with Thailand and because of the way it works I pay tax in Norway on my pension and I also pay tax in Thailand on money sent in the same year it was derived however so far I have got back all tax paid in Thailand and also all tax paid in Norway from the Norwegian Tax Authorities.

 

 

[wordchild]

Thai personal tax law, as of now (though that may change), is really only concerned with income earned in country or brought into country during a current tax year. Foreign income, other than that which is brought in, is excluded from an individuals Thai tax calculation.

This is long established practice and applies to Thai as well as expat residents of Thailand. Many wealthy Thais have squirrelled away vast assets, outside the country, precisely because of this concession.

Current Thai tax law and practice is very favourable , in particular, toward those individuals who start from a position of having their assets outside the country: eg many people who read this forum. Of course this may change , but it should be very easy, for the majority of  expats,   to so structure their assets that they can, perfectly legally, take advantage of this situation. Why should they worry about any reporting?

I really struggle to think of reasons why a law abiding Thai (tax) resident expat would have serious concern with Thailand Joining  the CRS. Obviously one needs to ensure that you meet the tax obligations of any jurisdiction where your assets are held, but again, with a little planning, I don’t see why this should be an issue. And, as mentioned above, non Thai assets held by individuals, are not a (current) concern for the Thai tax authorities. And not relevant  in terms of Thai taxation . 

For US citizens I understand it’s a different matter. Unusually the USA imposes a whole of life tax reporting obligation, dependent on income level ( but irrespective of residency) on its citizens. You have my sympathies!

Edited April 7, 2019 by wordchild

[andre47]

18 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

THAT IS THE ANSWER, I GUESS.

it is important, becuase in other countries, and i think most europe, a tax resident - or anyone who stay in the country for more than 180 days a year - has to DECLARE ALL HIS ASSETS ALL OVER THE WORLD !!

You don't have to declare your assets. You have to declare your income.

[The Theory]

 

19 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

where you are actually (physically) resident HAS ANYTHING to do with where you are (and remain) a tax resident. THIS IS THE THAI LAW NOW. if you stay in thailand - no mattar on which kind of visa - for more than 180 days a year, you have to pay tax in thailand.

Of course, if there is any income in this country. not what you made in you home country and already paid tax for. 

Example: my CD accounts in Thailand that I pay 15% tax at the time of maturity. 

Transferring unpaid tax fund or asset to be used in Thailand counts as “money laundering”. 

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by The Theory

[Tuvoc]

I'm certainly going to take professional tax advice before I come to Thailand just to be sure. 

[Briggsy]

On the opening page of the notes to a Thai tax return, it states if you have no taxable income in Thailand, you do not need to complete the return.

[abrahamzvi]

20 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

where you are actually (physically) resident HAS ANYTHING to do with where you are (and remain) a tax resident. THIS IS THE THAI LAW NOW. if you stay in thailand - no mattar on which kind of visa - for more than 180 days a year, you have to pay tax in thailand.

Yes and no. I would strongly suggest that you read carefully the excellent summary at:

https://www.tilleke.com/sites/defaults/files/Thailand-Tax-Guide.pdf

From D.7 it's quite clear that someone who derives all her/his income from sources outside Thailand AND does not bring this income into Thailand the same year it's earned, actually has Zero assessable income. And D.9 says that in that case, no tax return needs to be filed.

[Naam]

20 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

where you are actually (physically) resident HAS ANYTHING to do with where you are (and remain) a tax resident. THIS IS THE THAI LAW NOW. if you stay in thailand - no mattar on which kind of visa - for more than 180 days a year, you have to pay tax in thailand.

absolutely **&^%$

 

Quote

  Taxpayers are classified into "resident" and "non-resident". "Resident" means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand on a cash basis, regardless where the money is paid, as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand.

 

Individuals residing for 180 days or more in Thailand for any calendar
year are also subject to income tax on income from foreign sources if that income is brought into Thailand during the same taxable year that they are a resident.

 

 

[Naam]

19 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Did you hear about not crossing your bridges before you come to them? If and when the Thai tax code requires all tax-residents to declare all assets world-wide (if it ever does) I'll worry about it then. I'm not going to get myself all bent out of shape about it just yet.

 

According to the website globalcompliancenews.com, even after CRS comes in, it's still not clear that all worldwide assets will need to be declared. Their assessment of what it will mean in Thailand is as follows:

 

Quote

foreign-sourced personal income is only taxable if brought into Thailand within the same year it is earned, while corporate income tax is imposed on worldwide income regardless of whether the income is repatriated to Thailand.

corporate income tax on offshore proceeds applies only to Thai companies.

[mp10]

question: if I had a foreigner income that I brought into the country do I need to file as PIT even if I spent less than 180 days in the country during that tax year?

Thanks

[Berkshire]

40 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

Yes and no. I would strongly suggest that you read carefully the excellent summary at:

https://www.tilleke.com/sites/defaults/files/Thailand-Tax-Guide.pdf

From D.7 it's quite clear that someone who derives all her/his income from sources outside Thailand AND does not bring this income into Thailand the same year it's earned, actually has Zero assessable income. And D.9 says that in that case, no tax return needs to be filed.

So based on this, if an American guy has his monthly social security or pension sent directly to Thailand, he needs to pay taxes on it?  He's clearly bringing in income the same year it's earned and it's already been taxed.  Doesn't make sense.

 

My belief is that you're only taxed in Thailand for income earned in Thailand.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Berkshire

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, Berkshire said:

So based on this, if an American guy has his monthly social security or pension sent directly to Thailand, he needs to pay taxes on it?  He's clearly bringing in income the same year it's earned.  Doesn't make sense.

You are ignoring the rules set out in the Thailand-USA Double Tax Treaty.  You're only taxed once

[Berkshire]

2 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

You are ignoring the rules set out in the Thailand-USA Double Tax Treaty.  You're only taxed once

That's the point.  I was referring to the D.7 source.  It doesn't say anything about double taxation. 

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, Berkshire said:

That's the point.  I was referring to the D.7 source.  It doesn't say anything about double taxation. 

Why would it? The legislation covers the basic principles, tax treaties handle the exceptions.  That's true in every jurisidiction of which I'm aware

[khunPer]

21 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

my question is, in such a case, does a thai resident (for tax purposes - this has

nothing to do with the type of visa) have to declare all his assets accross

the globe to the thai tax authorities?

To my knowledge – and that's what we normally read in forum posts also – you only need to declare income, if you have a taxable income in Thailand.

 

Depending of your home country's double taxation agreement with Thailand, any retirement pension received from your home country maight be taxable in your home country only, and shall therefore not be declared in Thailand.

 

Some income from Thai sources, like interest from bank accounts, and dividend from funds and stock, the tax will be withheld, for example 15% from high-level interest, and 10% from dividends. You don't need to do anything, if you have no other taxable income, and you can even request tax compensation of interest withholding tax, if your Thai income is under taxation level (from 150,000 baht, depending of personal deductions).

 

Foreign income – except were a double taxation agreement is in force, like for retirement pension – are taxable in Thailand, but only if you bring the money into Thailand the same (calendar) year as they are earned. If foreign income are brought into Thailand the following year, its are considered savings, and thereby tax-free. This might be of interest for those that might have legal income in their home country, but taxable abroad due to the 183-day rule and double taxation agreements, but not brought into Thailand before the following year, making the income legally tax free.

 

Dividends from stock market might, again depending of double taxation agreements, be taxable in country of residence; however, many countries accept a dividend tax of 15% when one is resident abroad, but one might need to apply for the tax deduction, and in some cases every year and stock-by-stock. Thai dividend tax is 10%, so paying Thai dividend tax might be better than one's home country tax; however, you might need to prove that you bring the dividend into Thailand same year as earned to be elegible for a dividend tax reduction, if brought into Thailad later its considered savings, and you cannot be eligible for Thai dividend tax in your home country.

????

[Lacessit]

I fill out a tax return in Australia. Nowhere on the form am I asked to list my assets. I don't fill out a tax return in Thailand, because I earn no income here.

I think the term I am looking for is "panic merchant".

[mp10]

2 hours ago, mp10 said:

question: if I had a foreigner income that I brought into the country do I need to file as PIT even if I spent less than 180 days in the country during that tax year?

Thanks

bump

[ThaiBunny]

11 minutes ago, mp10 said:

bump

Was the income already taxed in a country with which Thailand has a double tax treaty?

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, mp10 said:

question: if I had a foreigner income that I brought into the country do I need to file as PIT even if I spent less than 180 days in the country during that tax year?

Thanks

No.

[mp10]

I'm not doing double taxation

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, mp10 said:

I'm not doing double taxation

Shoot me now

[mp10]

1 minute ago, ThaiBunny said:

Shoot me now

My country doesn't have agreement with Thailand. I can't do it.

[ballpoint]

4 hours ago, andre47 said:

You don't have to declare your assets. You have to declare your income.

You only have to declare income that was earned in Thailand, or earned outside Thailand and brought into the country the same year.

[DogNo1]

Well, Japan has a new tax law that requires Japan residents to report their worldwide assets and pay tax on worldwide income.  Supposedly the new law is meant to collect tax from wealthy Japanese who have squirreled their money away overseas.  I am an American resident of Japan but until this year I have only reported and paid tax on my Japanese income.  I don’t yet know the peculiarities of the new Japanese tax return but because the USA and Japan have a tax treaty, I may not have to pay any Japanese federal tax but the worry is the city tax which is quite high.  To file, I would probably need to hire a Japanese accountant which could be quite expensive.  In addition, long-term residents will have to pay an exit tax based on their total wealth starting in June 2020.  I mention all this because I have been planning to flee to Thailand later this year.  It looks as though Thailand may be planning to enforce the worldwide asset reporting to collect tax from wealthy Thais who keep their money overseas, especially in tax haven countries.  If this comes to pass, it will cause trouble and extra expense for Americans who will then need to file two returns even though no tax may be payable due to the Thai-US tax treaty.

I have never spent any US-earned income in Japan and have never spent any money earned in the current tax year in Thailand.  The bulk of my pension funds and investments are located in the US.

The bottom line of all this is the enforcement power of Japan and Thailand.  In Japan, the penalty for not declaring your worldwide assets is a $5,000 fine and/or a year in jail. The power of the prosecutors in Japan is formidable.  I hope that Thailand will retain its policy of not requiring foreign tax residents to report income from overseas but you never know.  It may follow Japan’s lead in order to ensnare wealthy Thais who keep their money off shore.

[nervona81732]

This is why I ALWAYS make a point to pay UNCLE SUGAR early every year. Out of fear! Has a ring to it ! Doesn't it!