Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

But gravity is still understood to be "theory" because we still do not know what causes it.  (This is actually a good evidence for the existence of God if ever there was one.)

Great post, yes even the laws of gravity, which most people take as molten gold, have a few holes that have not been satisfactorily explained.

[Hummin]

30 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Yet, we had people here saying that evolution theory is settled, and therefore belief in intelligent design is wrong, but you didn't say a word. 

On the contrary, i get accused of dismissing science, when in fact I'm dismissing hypothesis presented as facts.

Perhaps it's you who has to understand the differences between hypothesis, theories and facts.????

I'm not going to spend more energy knocking my head in the wall, when you just are interested in your own way of mocking and twisting! 

 

To bored in life?

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, rwill said:

Humans create a being to explain where everything came from.  But it does not answer that question.  It just pushes out a level.   Where did god come from?  How did he come into exsistence?

 

I guess it easier to believe some imaginary creature just always existed than to believe what we know exists just always existed.

 

When I was a little boy, I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised, the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. So I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me.

 

Emo Philips

You are, of course, welcome to your opinion, but while that question is entirely valid, it's equally valid to ask that if there is no creator, where did all the material for the universe come from? Did it just magically appear from nothing?

I believe science would disagree that something can come from nothing.

[mauGR1]

Just now, Hummin said:

I'm not going to spend more energy knocking my head in the wall, when you just are interested in your own way of mocking and twisting! 

 

To bored in life?

Nothing better than a personal attack to avoid admitting your mistakes eh.

Well done, but I'm not impressed. 

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Often we humans is to serious about things that really do not matter. Things that can really harm our lives if we make the wrong choices, or choose not to do anything, or choose to take action on the wrong premisses. 

 

Complicated

Yes, complicated, so better not thinking about,  right ?

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Yes, complicated, so better not thinking about,  right ?

Twisting again? 

 

 

[mauGR1]

Just now, Hummin said:

Twisting again? 

 

 

Didn't you say many times that you don't like complicated things and reasoning ?

Yet you are here everyday, trying to look clever. 

I have a good memory, should i be sorry for that ?

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Didn't you say many times that you don't like complicated things and reasoning ?

Yet you are here everyday, trying to look clever. 

I have a good memory, should i be sorry for that ?

Complicated proved theories is of interest, personal complicated made up beliefs based on cherry picking and feelings, not so interesting ????

 

 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Complicated proved theories is of interest, personal complicated made up beliefs based on cherry picking and feelings, not so interesting ????

 

 

I agree in principle, but, apart from the fact that feelings are extremely important in shaping everyone's life, i think that cherry picking is something everyone's doing. Do you need a pat on the back ?

Ok then, i appreciate that you're here discussing consciousness and nature and their connections, and our connections with those.

[rumak]

deleted.....

Edited September 6, 2022 by rumak

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

Complicated proved theories is of interest, personal complicated made up beliefs based on cherry picking and feelings, not so interesting ????

Who creates your experience if not you?  Can you name the agency?  Can you validate that agency's existence?  In my humble opinion, I think not.

Again, who creates your experience?

That's an uncomplicated question, Hummin.  You won't find a scientific answer.  What's your belief?

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

Who creates your experience if not you?  Can you name the agency?  Can you validate that agency's existence?  In my humble opinion, I think not.

Again, who creates your experience?

That's an uncomplicated question, Hummin.  You won't find a scientific answer.  What's your belief?

Common sense and being humble about we do not have all answers, as well be careful to present personal beliefs as truths! 

 

My belief is in the nature we are er equally part of as everything else in this world!

[Tippaporn]

8 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Common sense and being humble about we do not have all answers, as well be careful to present personal beliefs as truths! 

 

My belief is in the nature we are er equally part of as everything else in this world!

Once again, you refuse to answer a simple, direct question.  What are you hiding from?

 

Is your belief that we are equally a part of the natural world as much as everything else which exists in the world your truth?  Are you contradicting yourself when you state that personal belief as truth yet give an admonishing caution to not present personal beliefs as truth?

Let me try another simple question which requires only a simple yes or no answer and let's see if you choose to answer or avoid answering and just ramble about.

Do you believe everything in existence can be proved by science using the scientific method?

And if you're feeling frisky, or daredevilish in your case, can you expound on your yes or no answer without using the word "nature?"

[Tippaporn]

Just another general statement.

Folks can discuss all they want about every subject matter from A to Z in an effort to understand who and what we are and the reality we find ourselves in.  Now I'll put forth that there are fundamental questions which need to be answered before proper answers to other questions can suitably be found.  For if you search for answers about specific subject matter without these fundamental questions being answered then it only stands to reason that the wrong answer to a fundamental question will spoil so many other answers which are based on a wrong answer.

In other words, and to use an example of a fundamental question, is the truth that we do create our own reality or is the truth that we don't?  If we assume that we don't when the truth is that we do then one can easily see how, using a false assumption, we will end up creating multiples of multiple theories on other more specific subject matter which would all based on a false assumption.

The Theory of Evolution, as it is considered currently by science, would vaporise in an instant if it turns out that the truth is that we do create our own reality.  That would then be one example of a theory based on an underlying false assumption.  Remove the false assumption and the house of cards must collapse.                                                                                          

[mauGR1]

Btw, @Tippaporn, there's a question about your assertion that we are the creators of our own reality. 

Which i agree. 

Yet, we have major and minor influences in our lives, friends, relatives, parents etc.

But even more, spiritual entities contribute to our thoughts, feelings, imagination etc

My point being, our thoughts can come from many places, and it takes practice to manage the traffic, so to speak.

[mauGR1]

11 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Remove the false assumption and the house of cards must collapse.                                                                                          

Yes, but then, one of those .modern "democrats" , will tell you with a grin that "science " says this and that, and you are not a scientist, so you don't know....peer reviewed blah blah... 

It's a funny world ????

[Tippaporn]

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Btw, @Tippaporn, there's a question about your assertion that we are the creators of our own reality. 

Which i agree. 

Yet, we have major and minor influences in our lives, friends, relatives, parents etc.

But even more, spiritual entities contribute to our thoughts, feelings, imagination etc

My point being, our thoughts can come from many places, and it takes practice to manage the traffic, so to speak.

When one is influenced by another that is always a case of accepting the influence.  The idea of creating one's own reality implies that no one else can create your reality for you, or insert themselves within your reality unwanted.  Influence is not control though some conflate it as such.

Managing 'the traffic' is really nothing more than a matter of being critical and discriminating about what ideas are being presented to you as a means of influence.  It's said that the greatest commodity in this world which is constantly being traded is ideas.  We are all buyers and sellers simultaneously.  All day long.

[Tippaporn]

9 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Yes, but then, one of those .modern "democrats" , will tell you with a grin that "science " says this and that, and you are not a scientist, so you don't know....peer reviewed blah blah... 

It's a funny world ????

What better way to exert manipulative control than by creating a closed club.  You grant yourself full authority which you then use to control admittance.  And with your self delegated authority you are also free to make up the rules to best suit you.

It's a false paradigm and they'll sell you hard on it.  I'm not a buyer.

[mauGR1]

27 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

When one is influenced by another that is always a case of accepting the influence.  The idea of creating one's own reality implies that no one else can create your reality for you, or insert themselves within your reality unwanted.  Influence is not control though some conflate it as such.

Managing 'the traffic' is really nothing more than a matter of being critical and discriminating about what ideas are being presented to you as a means of influence.  It's said that the greatest commodity in this world which is constantly being traded is ideas.  We are all buyers and sellers simultaneously.  All day long.

So you don't think that there are spiritual entities/forces, able to influence your thoughts, i guess. 

That's good, but i would not say the same for the masses, not even for people i know and people i meet.

The majority seem to be unaware though, if you tell them that they are heavily influenced, to the point of being controlled, they give you strange looks ????

...i don't think that I'm completely free too, but I'm working on it.

[Tippaporn]

57 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

So you don't think that there are spiritual entities/forces, able to influence your thoughts, i guess. 

That's good, but i would not say the same for the masses, not even for people i know and people i meet.

The majority seem to be unaware though, if you tell them that they are heavily influenced, to the point of being controlled, they give you strange looks ????

...i don't think that I'm completely free too, but I'm working on it.

First, a minor point.  We are spirits donned in flesh and blood.  We are spiritual entities.

Ever notice that anything goes in this world?  From the most noble of man's acts to the unspeakable.  If man decided to unleash nuclear armageddon on the planet there isn't a single power in creation that would stop him.  It's all allowed.  Why?  I'll let you play with that thought before I give my answer.  I'll give you a single clue, though.  Freedom.

[mauGR1]

9 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

If man decided to unleash nuclear armageddon on the planet there isn't a single power in creation that would stop him.  It's all allowed. 

Well, i heard that spiritual entities (you can call them deva, angels, or aliens, as you prefer) are monitoring the "nuclear situation", to avoid dangerous incidents, but I'll take that with a grain of salt.

Yet I'm convinced that reality  can be stranger than fiction. 

Yes, of course we are spiritual beings dressed in flesh, but i was referring to entities NOT dressed in flesh.

Now if you ask me if I've ever seen a ghost, well, not with my physical eyes, but both i and my then girl friend,  have heard her very well, without funny pills involved.

 

[Hummin]

54 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Once again, you refuse to answer a simple, direct question.  What are you hiding from?

 

Is your belief that we are equally a part of the natural world as much as everything else which exists in the world your truth?  Are you contradicting yourself when you state that personal belief as truth yet give an admonishing caution to not present personal beliefs as truth?

Let me try another simple question which requires only a simple yes or no answer and let's see if you choose to answer or avoid answering and just ramble about.

Do you believe everything in existence can be proved by science using the scientific method?

And if you're feeling frisky, or daredevilish in your case, can you expound on your yes or no answer without using the word "nature?"

You are hard to please, ain't you? I think I have answered all questions you had for me so far. I will not make up answers or answer something that is impossible to answer. 

 

I thought the explanation lays in the word belief itself

 

1.

an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.

"his belief in extraterrestrial life"

2.

trust, faith, or confidence in (someone or something).

 

My belief can be both, a creator and evolution. For all we know we can be a crazy experiment!?

 

A creator is not necessary a God figur, but who really knows? I know people claim they know, and I know people who claim they have or know the truth, I do not claim such things.

 

As stated many times, I do not believe life is unik to earth, I believe in a universe or universal life, life which travel space and I can believe in several universes, and big bang was not the start of everything! But as far I know, we can only see as far as light travel towards us, or as far there is light.

 

I have multiple times stated our existence and answers  lays in our DNA, and do not need anymore explanation. All our history is right there with us from very beginning!

 

I believe science can give answers we are searching, but the question is, do we really want to get to the level, where we are capable of knowing everything! My best guess We rather self destruct, or go extinct before that time will happen out of numerous reasons, or maybe discovered by other intelligente life forms by then? Then what? What are they alike? Will they be like us? 

 

Time and space as we know, might be different than our reality for others. I keep my mind open.

 

 

As said it is hard to know, but I know if I really want to believe in something, and if I needed something to believe, I can create anything I want, and make it true to myself, if I want. We are easy manipulated by others and easy target for self manipulation as well.

 

Belief is the key word! Science create nice guidelines for us as we walk.

[Hummin]

22 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

The Theory of Evolution, as it is considered currently by science, would vaporise in an instant if it turns out that the truth is that we do create our own reality.  That would then be one example of a theory based on an underlying false assumption.  Remove the false assumption and the house of cards must collapse.                                                                                          

If our world is kind of a computer game as we have learned getting more and more complicated, and we create our own illusion and evolution out of random choices that gives multiple outcomes, then I could agree. But who is making the choices for yo? I guess each and one of us have a controller then? 
 

Survival of the fittest will be the first thing that comes to mind and evolution as a strong card and best card we have so far with or without an creator. 
 

Whenvmaking babies, who is the creator, and what determines the function and design? The truth is, we are a chain reaction evolving slowly based on our dna given by our anchestors. Whats before that we do not know. 

[Tippaporn]

On 9/6/2022 at 7:19 PM, Hummin said:

You are hard to please, ain't you? I think I have answered all questions you had for me so far. I will not make up answers or answer something that is impossible to answer. 

 

I thought the explanation lays in the word belief itself

 

1.

an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.

"his belief in extraterrestrial life"

2.

trust, faith, or confidence in (someone or something).

 

My belief can be both, a creator and evolution. For all we know we can be a crazy experiment!?

 

A creator is not necessary a God figur, but who really knows? I know people claim they know, and I know people who claim they have or know the truth, I do not claim such things.

 

As stated many times, I do not believe life is unik to earth, I believe in a universe or universal life, life which travel space and I can believe in several universes, and big bang was not the start of everything! But as far I know, we can only see as far as light travel towards us, or as far there is light.

 

I have multiple times stated our existence and answers  lays in our DNA, and do not need anymore explanation. All our history is right there with us from very beginning!

 

I believe science can give answers we are searching, but the question is, do we really want to get to the level, where we are capable of knowing everything! My best guess We rather self destruct, or go extinct before that time will happen out of numerous reasons, or maybe discovered by other intelligent life forms by then? Then what? What are they alike? Will they be like us? 

 

Time and space as we know, might be different than our reality for others. I keep my mind open.

 

 

As said it is hard to know, but I know if I really want to believe in something, and if I needed something to believe, I can create anything I want, and make it true to myself, if I want. We are easy manipulated by others and easy target for self manipulation as well.

 

Belief is the key word! Science create nice guidelines for us as we walk.

You still didn't give a yes or no answer to the simple question of whether or not science is capable of proving everything in existence.  And when asked to expound on your yes or no answer you did precisely what I said you would.  You rambled.

Life is not unique to earth.  What does that have to do with the question I asked?

The answers to our existence lays in or DNA.  What does that have to do with the question I asked?

Our history is right there from the beginning.  What does that have to do with the question I asked?

Do we really want to be capable of knowing everything?  What does that have to do with the question I asked?

Intelligent life forms.  What does that have to do with the question I asked?

Time and space for aliens might be different than our experience of it.  What does that have to do with the question I asked?

I believe science can give answers we are searching.  At least you gave a partial answer.  And for once you didn't mention "nature."

So I ask you, Hummin, how can one have a discussion narrowly focused on a single point towards an understanding of that point when you don't address the point but rather choose to go off on every and any other conceivable topic?  The extreme sports stunts you've performed required a singular, pointed focus.  Now apply that singular focus here.  Stay on point.  Simply answer the question and the discussion will get more in depth around that.

[Tippaporn]

13 hours ago, Hummin said:

If our world is kind of a computer game as we have learned getting more and more complicated, and we create our own illusion and evolution out of random choices that gives multiple outcomes, then I could agree. But who is making the choices for yo? I guess each and one of us have a controller then? 
 

Survival of the fittest will be the first thing that comes to mind and evolution as a strong card and best card we have so far with or without an creator. 
 

Whenvmaking babies, who is the creator, and what determines the function and design? The truth is, we are a chain reaction evolving slowly based on our dna given by our anchestors. Whats before that we do not know. 

Again.

Who creates your experience if not you?  Can you name the agency?  Can you validate that agency's existence?  In my humble opinion, I think not.

Again, who creates your experience?

The correct answer to that question will destroy any and all theories, scientific or otherwise, which are based on the wrong answer.  It must be.  It cannot be otherwise.  I can't stress enough that this point must be understood.

 

Having the correct answer is paramount for a true understanding of so much else.  It is a prime question.  It must be answered correctly in order to arrive at other correct answers for it forms the basis of other correct answers.

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Tippaporn

[Hummin]

14 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

You still didn't give a yes or no answer to the simple question of whether or not science is capable of proving everything in existence.  And when asked to expound on your yes or no answer you did precisely what I said you would.  You rambled.

Life is not unique to earth.  What does that have to do with the question I asked?

The answers to our existence lays in or DNA.  What does that have to do with the question I asked?

Our history is right there from the beginning.  What does that have to do with the question I asked?

Do we really want to be capable of knowing everything?  What does that have to do with the question I asked?

Intelligent life forms.  What does that have to do with the question I asked?

Time and space for aliens might be different than our experience of it.  What does that have to do with the question I asked?

I believe science can give answers we are searching.  At least you gave a partial answer.  And for once you didn't mention "nature."

So I ask you, Hummin, how can one have a discussion narrowly focused on a single point towards an understanding of that point when you don't address the point but rather choose to go off on every and any other conceivable topic?  The extreme sports stunts you've performed required a singular, pointed focus.  Now apply that singular focus here.  Stay on point.  Simply answer the question and the discussion will get more in depth around that.

Thank you for your well placed words of wisdom.

 

I capitulate because you ask an impossible question to answer yes and no, but I guess everything have an logical explanation that can be solved by science one day, if we have enough time.

 

I wouldn't be alive today, if I had a singular pointed focus!

 

I needed to read the terrain, air, light, feelings and motivation.

 

If conditions was not right, and if it did not feel right, I turned it down.

 

Several times I did not feel good or felt somethiing was wrong, I lost a friend. Not every time, but enough times so I started to believe more in my gut.

[Hummin]

30 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Again.

Who creates your experience if not you?  Can you name the agency?  Can you validate that agency's existence?  In my humble opinion, I think not.

Again, who creates your experience?

The correct answer to that question will destroy any and all theories, scientific or otherwise, which are based on the wrong answer.  It must be.  It cannot be otherwise.  I can't stress enough that this point must be understood.

 

Having the correct answer is paramount for a true understanding of so much else.  It is a prime question.  It must be answered correctly in order to arrive at other correct answers for it forms the basis of other correct answers.

 

I believe you are at another level of understanding the truth than me! So no worries, enjoy the journey as long it last!

 

Good luck

[Tippaporn]

I just had a discussion with a customer and fellow engineer and he agreed wholeheartedly with me.  The prime question asked by everyone in engineering is, "Will this idea work?"  Throughout their lives most people have indiscriminately picked up a wide assortment of ideas, which they've then adopted as beliefs and erroneously accepted as conditions of reality rather than beliefs about reality.  The question of how this idea works is rarely if ever asked.

We went on to discuss the mechanics of how this situation came to be, how it operates, how it works.  In a design review someone may toss out a novel idea.  On it's surface, or at first glance, the idea seems to have rationality and be promising.  It is only after looking under the surface, under the veneer of it's rationale which first appears to supports it, that the rationale fails.

What is apparent to both of us, when looking out at so much of the insanity present in our current world, is that so many people accept so many ideas on their surface, at first glance, due to the veneer of rationality which is given to support an idea.  Few, and I mean very few, look much further.  Ever.  And especially once an idea is accepted by an individual as a "fact" of the world.

[mauGR1]

29 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Few, and I mean very few, look much further.  Ever.  And especially once an idea is accepted by an individual as a "fact" of the world.

The way i see it, there's just 1 fact, and it's infinite consciousness. 

Some call it God. 

[Tippaporn]

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

The way i see it, there's just 1 fact, and it's infinite consciousness. 

Some call it God. 

Simple enough.  But don't you want to know it's practical applications?  You know, those details which are to be used in creating and living the fulfilling life you've always intended?  If there's no interest in doing so and one is perfectly satisfied with their life in every facet of it then that's fair enough.