Do you believe in God and why

[Sunmaster]

29 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

But is there a GOD ... we'll just have to wait until we krap out for the sequel.

I disagree on this point. 

"God" is not something that is outside or to be experienced somewhere in the future. 

If we can agree that the term God refers to the Ground of all Being, an all encompassing consciousness, then the logical deduction is that this consciousness is here and accessible at every point in time, everywhere.

 

Why waste your life and wait for death to find out, when there are clear and proven ways to do so while alive?

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

If we can agree that the term God refers to the Ground of all Being, an all encompassing consciousness, then the logical deduction is that this consciousness is here and accessible at every point in time, everywhere.

Apparently we can't.  GOD existence or lack of (with me), doesn't affect my consciousness at all.

 

With me, GOD is a word/mythical entity to control people.  Nothing more, nothing less.   Belief in GOD, gives some folks false hope of whatever they are praying for, to become a reality.

[Sunmaster]

11 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

With me, GOD is a word/mythical entity to control people.  Nothing more, nothing less.   Belief in GOD, gives some folks false hope of whatever they are praying for, to become a reality.

Some folks....and what about the rest?

Do you think I wasted 25 years of my life in the false belief that I am/we are more than a body?

And if you think that, what makes you think so?

[KhunLA]

12 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Some folks....and what about the rest?

Do you think I wasted 25 years of my life in the false belief that I am/we are more than a body?

And if you think that, what makes you think so?

Irrelevant what I think, as if you are happy in your belief, and adds an extra smile to your thoughts, believing, then probably a good thing.   As positivity, from my reading, is healthy.

 

You really don't want my honest opinion, of what I think about people who believe in GOD.  Trust me, besides, it would be against the rules for me to voice that opinion.

 

I simply accept, not everyone believes or thinks in the same manner.

[Sunmaster]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Irrelevant what I think, as if you are happy in your belief, and adds an extra smile to your thoughts, believing, then probably a good thing.   As positivity, from my reading, is healthy.

 

You really don't want my honest opinion, of what I think about people who believe in GOD.  Trust me, besides, it would be against the rules for me to voice that opinion.

 

I simply accept, not everyone believes or thinks in the same manner.

You wouldn't say anything new that hasn't been said here many times. 

And I wouldn't be offended.

 

Your reply makes me think that you had some unfortunate experiences with religion or religious people. Am I right?

[KhunLA]

16 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

You wouldn't say anything new that hasn't been said here many times. 

And I wouldn't be offended.

 

Your reply makes me think that you had some unfortunate experiences with religion or religious people. Am I right?

Incorrect.   I was a happy Christian for quite some time.  Until giving it a lot more thought & research, and realized what a farce it is.

 

Actually come from a Holy Roller, strong Christian family, 2 brothers/wives, have given up trying to save me, and 3rd brother's wife, being hard core Catholic.  I think Brother #3 is agnostic. 

 

Can't say any aspect of their beliefs has annoyed me, so no real negatives.   Others I don't know, who ask and try to convert me, I simply ignore, and have no real respect for them if they continue.   But nobody who knows me would do that.

 

Me and my family, we just A2D, and they probably think I'm lost, and me, thinking they're nuts ???? to be kind, since I love 'em.  

[Sunmaster]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Me and my family, we just A2D, and they probably think I'm lost, and me, thinking they're nuts ???? to be kind, since I love 'em.  

What is A2D?

 

OK, so you used your brain to see through and go beyond the religious dogma made of blatant contradictions and childlike allegories. Good for you. I've done the same when I was about 14 and became an atheist. 

Until I wasn't. ????

 

 

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

What is A2D?

 

OK, so you used your brain to see through and go beyond the religious dogma made of blatant contradictions and childlike allegories. Good for you. I've done the same when I was about 14 and became an atheist. 

Until I wasn't. ????

Agree to disagree

[Tippaporn]

[save the frogs]

6 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

If we can agree that the term God refers to the Ground of all Being

no we can't agree.

because Ground of all Being doesn't mean anything.

[save the frogs]

4 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Do you think I wasted 25 years of my life in the false belief

yes, i'm beginning to think you wasted your life in false belief

[save the frogs]

9 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Perhaps you are the false prophet here?

It's a fair question, isn't it?

i'm a wolf in wolf's clothing.

and you're a wolf in sheep's clothing.

we're both false prophets.

[Sunmaster]

5 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

no we can't agree.

because Ground of all Being doesn't mean anything.

...to you...

[Sunmaster]

5 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

yes, i'm beginning to think you wasted your life in false belief

On what grounds do you base that idea?

[Tippaporn]

4 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

i'm a wolf in wolf's clothing.

and you're a wolf in sheep's clothing.

we're both false prophets.

I came across this fine quote many years ago.  Author unknown.

"The greater fool is one who argues with a fool."

 

Okay.  You win.

[Tippaporn]

36 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

On what grounds do you base that idea?

I'd hang it up if I were you, Sunmaster.  You'll never get a serious answer to a serious question because you're not dealing with a serious person.  Myself?  I'm not getting dragged into clown world any longer.  It's not my idea of amusement.  We get a lot of serious seeming types who devolve quickly.  Although, you may have more patience than me.

 

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

I'd hang it up if I were you, Sunmaster.  You'll never get a serious answer to a serious question because you're not dealing with a serious person.  Myself?  I'm not getting dragged into clown world any longer.  It's not my idea of amusement.  We get a lot of serious seeming types who devolve quickly.  Although, you may have more patience than me.

 

I'm OK. We had far more difficult posters in here before. This is quite relaxed in comparison. 

As long as people can stay civilized, all are welcome. No refunds, as usual. 

[Elad]

14 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Now you may consider simultaneous time to be a contradiction to your experience.  And it is.  What needs to be understood is that it's only a seeming contradiction that's forced to appear so because you are immersed in a reality in which the experience of time exists for us as it does.  It should be understood that the key take away, or the key understanding to be had, is that time is only  . . . only . . . something that is experienced as such and such or so and so.  Seth explains what time is and why we experience it as we do . . . one moment following another with each passing moment seemingly fading into what we call the past . . . in great detail.  He also explains why we do not perceive the future, despite the fact that the future exists now.

He goes much further to explain the relationships and interactions between our perceived past, present and future.  He describes in great detail why and how our experience of time is what it is.  The fact that our very biology is geared towards the experience of one moment forever following another moment.

Now he also points out a fascinating fact.   A fact which you can easily verify yourself.  Despite the "fact" that per our experience there exists past, present and future our experience is always in the present moment and never outside of it.  We find that we are always operating in what Seth calls the spacious now.  There is nothing other than NOW.  Time is in the truest sense, therefore, an illusion.

I'm afraid you and Seth are just wrong about time. Time is real, its relative and there is no absolute time in the universe, the notion of NOW universally doesn't exist. Time being relative has been verified experimentally with atomic clocks on satellites orbiting the Earth. For satellites in orbit there's two factors of time dilation going on, gravitational time dilation where clocks in a weaker gravitational field tick more rapidly, and there's time dilation due to special relativity where moving clocks tick more slowly.

 

For satellites in a low Earth orbit where the orbital speed is higher then the effects of special relativity dominates and the clocks on board tick more slowly relative to Earth based clocks. For satellites in a high Earth orbit (like our GPS at 20,000 km above the Earth's surface) where orbital speeds are much slower, then the gravitational time dilation dominates and those clocks tick faster than the Earth based clocks. In fact there exist an orbit where both effects of time dilation cancel each other out which is about 1.5 Earth radii or 3,200 km above the surface, and clocks there keep in sync with Earth clocks.

 

If time was just an illusion as you say, then why do we have to correct for these effects on our GPS because if we didn't make these corrections, then the errors in positions of GPS receivers would accumulate at the rate of tens of km per day. The fact that we have to make these corrections verifies that time is real.

And BTW its not just the clocks that are ticking more slowly/rapidly, if a human was in the same reference frame as the clock then their heartbeat, metabolism and any biological processes slow down or speed up relative to someone on Earth. These effects are very small for Earth orbits but when speeds are close to the speed of light or gravity is very strong then the effects are significant. 

 

I noticed you were using relativity of simultaneity in relation to events within our past and future light-cones. Did you know that relativity of simultaneity is specific to space-like separated events (i.e. events that are not causally connected and not within our past and future light-cone) where two space-like events are simultaneous in one frame of reference, are not in other frames. In fact the ordering of events can be reversed for space-like events, if event 1 precedes event 2 in one frame, then there will exist a frame where event 2 precedes event 1.

No paradoxes involved here because the events are not causally connected.

 

For time-like separated events (i.e. events that are causally connected and therefore within your past and future light-cone) then the ordering of events cannot be reversed nor can they be simultaneous no matter what the reference frame. For time-like separated events the causal event always precedes effect.

 

@Tippaporn you should take some time to study special relativity, to where you can read Minkowski  spacetime diagrams, use the Lorentz transformations and understand the relativity of simultaneity, then come back here and tell us if you think time is real. ????    

[Sunmaster]

45 minutes ago, Elad said:

I'm afraid you and Seth are just wrong about time. Time is real, its relative and there is no absolute time in the universe, the notion of NOW universally doesn't exist. Time being relative has been verified experimentally with atomic clocks on satellites orbiting the Earth. For satellites in orbit there's two factors of time dilation going on, gravitational time dilation where clocks in a weaker gravitational field tick more rapidly, and there's time dilation due to special relativity where moving clocks tick more slowly.

 

For satellites in a low Earth orbit where the orbital speed is higher then the effects of special relativity dominates and the clocks on board tick more slowly relative to Earth based clocks. For satellites in a high Earth orbit (like our GPS at 20,000 km above the Earth's surface) where orbital speeds are much slower, then the gravitational time dilation dominates and those clocks tick faster than the Earth based clocks. In fact there exist an orbit where both effects of time dilation cancel each other out which is about 1.5 Earth radii or 3,200 km above the surface, and clocks there keep in sync with Earth clocks.

 

If time was just an illusion as you say, then why do we have to correct for these effects on our GPS because if we didn't make these corrections, then the errors in positions of GPS receivers would accumulate at the rate of tens of km per day. The fact that we have to make these corrections verifies that time is real.

And BTW its not just the clocks that are ticking more slowly/rapidly, if a human was in the same reference frame as the clock then their heartbeat, metabolism and any biological processes slow down or speed up relative to someone on Earth. These effects are very small for Earth orbits but when speeds are close to the speed of light or gravity is very strong then the effects are significant. 

 

I noticed you were using relativity of simultaneity in relation to events within our past and future light-cones. Did you know that relativity of simultaneity is specific to space-like separated events (i.e. events that are not causally connected and not within our past and future light-cone) where two space-like events are simultaneous in one frame of reference, are not in other frames. In fact the ordering of events can be reversed for space-like events, if event 1 precedes event 2 in one frame, then there will exist a frame where event 2 precedes event 1.

No paradoxes involved here because the events are not causally connected.

 

For time-like separated events (i.e. events that are causally connected and therefore within your past and future light-cone) then the ordering of events cannot be reversed nor can they be simultaneous no matter what the reference frame. For time-like separated events the causal event always precedes effect.

 

@Tippaporn you should take some time to study special relativity, to where you can read Minkowski  spacetime diagrams, use the Lorentz transformations and understand the relativity of simultaneity, then come back here and tell us if you think time is real. ????    

The relativity of simultaneity seems to be a condition unique to the physical/material universe or 3D (4D if you count time). The timelessness Tippaporn is talking about(Ithink), becomes plausible when talking about higher dimensions (5D+). 

In essence, the relativity of simultaneity is bound to 3D and doesn't apply to 5D+.

 

In that sense, you may be both right.

[save the frogs]

8 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

No refunds, as usual. 

no, what are you talking about?

i absolutely demand a refund!

[Fat is a type of crazy]

4 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

The relativity of simultaneity seems to be a condition unique to the physical/material universe or 3D (4D if you count time). The timelessness Tippaporn is talking about(Ithink), becomes plausible when talking about higher dimensions (5D+). 

In essence, the relativity of simultaneity is bound to 3D and doesn't apply to 5D+.

 

In that sense, you may be both right.

No. Elad  is correct unless you can show how the rules are different in the 5th dimension and why the rules he discusses don’t apply. Science is everywhere by definition including heaven and the 5th dimension and in everyone’s head and spiritual world. Nowhere to hide. 

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Science is everywhere by definition including heaven and the 5th dimension and in everyone’s head and spiritual world. Nowhere to hide. 

Well, at least we know the name of your God.

I would say, however, that your god is a human construct, and it's totally insignificant in the spiritual world.

When you dream, you are in a spiritual world, and you cannot measure anything there.

[Sunmaster]

3 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

No. Elad  is correct unless you can show how the rules are different in the 5th dimension and why the rules he discusses don’t apply. Science is everywhere by definition including heaven and the 5th dimension and in everyone’s head and spiritual world. Nowhere to hide. 

Science is everywhere including heaven? Lol

 

Where did you get that from?

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, at least we know the name of your God.

I would say, however, that your god is a human construct, and it's totally insignificant in the spiritual world.

When you dream, you are in a spiritual world, and you cannot measure anything there.

I have said this before but even in the world of god, dreams, spirituality, the 10th dimension, things may work differently but that difference can be described and is science. Even if no rules apply that is  a thing that can be described and science can attempt to work it out to make the dream world consistent with the known world. If there is a different so far unknown world.

[Sunmaster]

4 hours ago, save the frogs said:

no, what are you talking about?

i absolutely demand a refund!

You should ask your schools for a refund. A waste of money that was.... ????

[Sunmaster]

17 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I have said this before but even in the world of god, dreams, spirituality, the 10th dimension, things may work differently but that difference can be described and is science. Even if no rules apply that is  a thing that can be described and science can attempt to work it out to make the dream world consistent with the known world. If there is a different so far unknown world.

Science already gets very blurry when it tries to describe to the mind. If you expect science to make sense of the spirit, you're hopelessly deluded. 

 

Try reading "The Science Delusion" by Rupert Sheldrake. ????

 

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I have said this before but even in the world of god, dreams, spirituality, the 10th dimension, things may work differently but that difference can be described and is science. Even if no rules apply that is  a thing that can be described and science can attempt to work it out to make the dream world consistent with the known world. If there is a different so far unknown world.

There is indeed some truth in what you say, and there indeed may be some sort of " rules " in the higher realms.

However, by now, you should know the difference between " science " intended as pure knowledge, and mechanistic ( or materialistic) science, which studies the property of matter,  and has become a pretty unethical tool in the hands of a few.

Yes, obviously the natural  (or material) world and the state of awakening  are consistent with the spiritual worlds and the dreamlike state.

So, yes, true science can describe spiritual realities, but it always will be a subjective experience described by a man ( or a group of men ) with all its imperfections. 

Btw, thanks for your thoughtful post.

[save the frogs]

54 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

You should ask your schools for a refund. A waste of money that was....

I read only a few quotes from the Seth book and figured out it's drivel.

You've read the entire collection of Seth books 15 times and still can't figure it out.

 

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, save the frogs said:

I read only a few quotes from the Seth book and figured out it's drivel.

You've read the entire collection of Seth books 15 times and still can't figure it out.

 

You must be a genius. I humbly bow down to your higher intellect.  

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Incorrect.   I was a happy Christian for quite some time.  Until giving it a lot more thought & research, and realized what a farce it is.

 

Actually come from a Holy Roller, strong Christian family, 2 brothers/wives, have given up trying to save me, and 3rd brother's wife, being hard core Catholic.  I think Brother #3 is agnostic. 

 

Can't say any aspect of their beliefs has annoyed me, so no real negatives.   Others I don't know, who ask and try to convert me, I simply ignore, and have no real respect for them if they continue.   But nobody who knows me would do that.

 

Me and my family, we just A2D, and they probably think I'm lost, ad nd me, thinking they're nuts ???? to be kind, since I love 'em.  

IMO you've joined the club of people that think Religion IS God, instead of ABOUT God.

It's not essential to be religious to believe that God exists.