Do you believe in God and why

[Odysseus123]

16 minutes ago, lvr181 said:

ivor bigun - you have opened a "can of worms"! ???? 

Naw..great topic.

 

Well done Ivor Bigun..

[55Jay]

15 hours ago, NotYourBusiness said:

 

Fascinating thread. There is compelling evidence of the existence of a huge (over 500 feet long), ancient, man-made, boat like object at 6.300 feet above sea level. The underground anomalies of petrified wood are at highly regular intervals, the metal rivets found were of ancient and man-made metal, the size is exactly as predicted in the Bible. The huge anchor stones found nearby really add intrigue. Whatever it is, everyone can agree it really shouldn't be there.

 

There is very strong archeological evidence of huge and catastrophic flows of water worldwide. DNA scientists will tell you that the human race went through a constriction event recently (~10,000 years) where it is estimated that fewer than 1,000 individuals survived. It explains why we are all so similar, which would not be expected from an evolution hypothesis.

 

Whether we believe or not is actually a mute point. According the end times prophecy you will be forced to swear allegiance or perish. Lots of other prophecies including rebuilding of the Temple, resumption of animal sacrifices, dozens more.

 

Since it is notoriously difficult to predict the future (ask any stock trader), if and when these things, written 2,000 years ago, begin to come true will be interesting to say the least. And at that time, make no mistake, the proof you seek will be shown to you. Keep an open mind to the possibilities and you will be fine. Should be quite the show.

 

One final question: if that mysterious object really is Noah's Ark, then WHO told Noah to build the ark?

The voice in his head did. 

 

You know that wild-eyed dude you've seen on city sidewalks?  Possibly homeless and in need of psychiatric/substance abuse medical help, screaming and shouting at everyone and no one, holding up a cardboard sign about imminent End Times.......  Repent and believe in My god, or else.....        I think that dude is realistic representation of Noah.

 

Similar thread in the Moses story with the arrogant, slave-driving Egyptian Pharaoh who could only watch helplessly as Moses called down the selective wrath of god's voodoo upon them.   His soldiers were also no match for god's powerful magic at the Red Sea.  

 

Think about it.  The bible stories incorporate and embellish powerful forces of nature, conveniently hijacking them as intentional acts of god for retribution against His human creations who doubt His power and authority over them, and mock His humble representative on Earth.  Said representative always has the last laugh in the end as the arrogant non-believers perish in the foretold calamity from god.  Noah: "See!  I tried to tell all you <deleted> but noooooo, you didn't listen!  And NOW look at you!  Ha!"

 

Stories are embellished over long periods of time, an all too common, well documented weakness of our human species.   Embarrassing as it is in our modern age, leaders of various Religious corporations still hijack and attribute natural disasters and even some heinous acts, as willful acts by their merciful, loving god against those who arrogantly reject and mock Him. 

 

Their message then and now, is always wrapped in fear and threats of violent retribution. 

 

Believe and Comply, or else...... 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

The voice in his head did. 

 

You know that wild-eyed dude you've seen on city sidewalks?  Possibly homeless and in need of psychiatric/substance abuse medical help, screaming and shouting at everyone and no one, holding up a cardboard sign about imminent End Times.......  Repent and believe in My god, or else.....        I think that dude is realistic representation of Noah.

 

Similar thread in the Moses story with the arrogant, slave-driving Egyptian Pharaoh who could only watch helplessly as Moses called down the selective wrath of god's voodoo upon them.   His soldiers were also no match for god's powerful magic at the Red Sea.  

 

Think about it.  The bible stories incorporate and embellish powerful forces of nature, conveniently hijacking them as intentional acts of god for retribution against His human creations who doubt His power and authority over them, and mock His humble representative on Earth.  Said representative always has the last laugh in the end as the arrogant non-believers perish in the foretold calamity from god.  Noah: "See!  I tried to tell all you <deleted> but noooooo, you didn't listen!  And NOW look at you!  Ha!"

 

Stories are embellished over long periods of time, an all too common, well documented weakness of our human species.   Embarrassing as it is in our modern age, leaders of various Religious corporations still hijack and attribute natural disasters and even some heinous acts, as willful acts by their merciful, loving god against those who arrogantly reject and mock Him. 

 

Their message then and now, is always wrapped in fear and threats of violent retribution. 

 

Believe and Comply, or else...... 

Now called "The Sun"....????

[yodsak]

[dash]

Notre-Dame

15.04.2019 he was absent in Paris. His house burnt down

[joecoolfrog]

On 4/14/2019 at 4:27 PM, mauGR1 said:

We can't understand the concept of infinite, we can't understand lots of other things.

I think it's logical to think there are superior beings, and an intelligent design.

You don't throw around randomly screws and bolts and metal planks to build an airplane, right ?

People who mock God, mock something they don't understand.

You clearly misunderstand the meaning of the word ' logical '.

I fail to see how one can mock something that doesn't exist , mocking those who blindly believe is perfectly reasonable though.

Edited April 16, 2019 by joecoolfrog

[Grusa]

I do not.

 

But, Pascals' Wager applies. To paraphrase:-

1. If I believe in God, and He exists, I will go to Heaven.

2. If I believe in God, and He does not exist, I gain nothing, and lose nothing.

3. If I do not believe in God, and He exists, I go to Hell.

4. If I do not believe in God, and He does not exist, I gain nothing, and lose nothing

On the balance of the argument, it is safer to believe in God than not.

 

Take your chances, guys!

[joecoolfrog]

In all honesty it is a complete mystery to me that so many people believe this utter tosh.

Sure I know the driving forces , brain washing , peer pressure , cultural acceptance but still , awful lot of sheep around.

[joecoolfrog]

3 minutes ago, Grusa said:

I do not.

 

But, Pascals' Wager applies. To paraphrase:-

1. If I believe in God, and He exists, I will go to Heaven.

2. If I believe in God, and He does not exist, I gain nothing, and lose nothing.

3. If I do not believe in God, and He exists, I go to Hell.

4. If I do not believe in God, and He does not exist, I gain nothing, and lose nothing

On the balance of the argument, it is safer to believe in God than not.

 

Take your chances, guys!

Shame about the millions slaughtered in the name of religion though .

[mauGR1]

11 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

You clearly misunderstand the meaning of the word ' logical '.

I fail to see how one can mock something that doesn't exist , mocking those who blindly believe is perfectly reasonable though.

Colours don't exist for the blind.

[Skeptic7]

13 minutes ago, Grusa said:

I do not.

 

But, Pascals' Wager applies. To paraphrase:-

1. If I believe in God, and He exists, I will go to Heaven.

2. If I believe in God, and He does not exist, I gain nothing, and lose nothing.

3. If I do not believe in God, and He exists, I go to Hell.

4. If I do not believe in God, and He does not exist, I gain nothing, and lose nothing

On the balance of the argument, it is safer to believe in God than not.

 

Take your chances, guys!

Right so you gotta take Pascal's wager for ALL deities...NOT just one. ALL...cuz if you believe in the wrong deity, suffer the consequences.

 

Like say The Flying Spaghetti Monster that the Pastafarians believe in. If you don't love pasta and have it at least once a week and truly enjoy it...spend eternity drowning in a noodly pot of boiling water! 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Skeptic7

[Odysseus123]

5 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

Shame about the millions slaughtered in the name of religion though .

Hmm..let us examine a few wars of the 20th century-presumably most of the posters here were born prior to 2001.

 

The Boer War?

The Philippines Insurrection?

The Ist World War?

The 2nd Word War?

The Korean War?

The Vietnam War?

Desert Storm?

 

I think not.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Odysseus123

[ballpoint]

4 minutes ago, Grusa said:

I do not.

 

But, Pascals' Wager applies. To paraphrase:-

1. If I believe in God, and He exists, I will go to Heaven.

2. If I believe in God, and He does not exist, I gain nothing, and lose nothing.

3. If I do not believe in God, and He exists, I go to Hell.

4. If I do not believe in God, and He does not exist, I gain nothing, and lose nothing

On the balance of the argument, it is safer to believe in God than not.

 

Take your chances, guys!

And this all knowing, all seeing god that you are hedging your bets against won't be able to see through your little ploy?

[ballpoint]

2 hours ago, transam said:

You have heard me sing then.....????

But whether it's the Satanic verses or the Heavenly chorus is still up for debate.

[Tony125]

Yes I do.

[Baggy]

On 4/14/2019 at 10:42 PM, marcusarelus said:

I watched the nature of the priests when I was in the seminary and it was not nice.  I find it impossible to believe anyone with a formal education can really believe in a god.  My Irish almost illiterate mother and her mother I can understand.  They sent me to school and were surprised when I returned not believing anything they ever told me again.    

Where is the proof?

a total myth! With so many people believing, a fantastic mass marketing exercise.

 

[Baerboxer]

If you look at most religions they all preach about human kind being good to one another.

 

However, most have also been corrupted via human kind. The Christian bible is a product of the Catholic Church which included bits it wanted and excluded bits in didn't when assembling it. And as we see throughout history this was a very corrupt organization who were intent on control, amassing wealth and power and covering up some of their more seedy activities. They literally wanted to use "the fear of god" to control people; pushed against education of the masses and social development and resisted change and exposure of their vices. It's no coincidence they flourish in third world countries where the masses are not provided with high education and superstition and obedience is encourage. Hinduism has corrupted its caste system to achieve a similar domination and control. I use these as examples, but they are illustrative.

The Catholic church certainly used "miracles" to explain things they didn't understand and to emphasize the power of the God they sought to use for their own ends. If you do believe in forces of good and evil, it could be argued that some exponents of religion are really forces of evil.

 

Every human is unique and has their own thoughts, feelings and sub-conscious which affect their world view and opinion. It was socially unacceptable for centuries for upper class people not to be seen to be active in the religions of their countries. Then it became fashionable in Christian countries to deny religion, especially with the rising celebrity class. People wanted to be fashionable as so Christianity has declined. Not so in Islamic, Hindu, Bhuddist or Jewish counties and communities.

 

People who deny others religious views are pretending to know because things cannot be proven by 'science". But each age thinks its level of science is the ultimate when in fact new more incredible things are always being discovered. Also faith is not something that can tangibly be proven to exist or not, at this moment in time. People who are religious are placing their faith in something. For sure many things can't be explained, fate, karma, call it what you will.

 

If their is an evil force, the devil, then indeed his greatest trick will be convincing people he doesn't exist.

 

The reality is, none of us really know for certain, until we die.

 

 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

34 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Hmm..let us examine a few wars of the 20th century-presumably most of the posters here were born prior to 2001.

 

The Boer War?

The Philippines Insurrection?

The Ist World War?

The 2nd Word War?

The Korean War?

The Vietnam War?

Desert Storm?

 

I think not.

 

Interest that during WW1 the Christian church bishops blessed tanks in Britain and Germany. The Christian churches in each country fully supported their side in the war. For God, King/Kaiser, and country!

 

Millions were killed from the Crusades through to modern riots in some countries. India has seen many massacres, ISIS responsible for much killing all the name of religion.

 

[marcusarelus]

54 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Hmm..let us examine a few wars of the 20th century-presumably most of the posters here were born prior to 2001.

 

The Boer War?

The Philippines Insurrection?

The Ist World War?

The 2nd Word War?

The Korean War?

The Vietnam War?

Desert Storm?

 

I think not.

Vietnam war was was started by land reform or confiscating the land owned by the rich Catholics and giving it to the poor Buddhists.  India and Pakistan wars Hindu vs Muslim how many thousands of thousands killed or starved?  Arab Israel wars?  Irish troubles?  South Thailand insurgency (1960 - Buddhist vs Muslim) Bosnian war.  Do you want me to continue or you can just admit you are in error?

[Odysseus123]

8 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Vietnam war was was started by land reform or confiscating the land owned by the rich Catholics and giving it to the poor Buddhists.  India and Pakistan wars Hindu vs Muslim how many thousands of thousands killed or starved?  Arab Israel wars?  Irish troubles?  South Thailand insurgency (1960 - Buddhist vs Muslim) Bosnian war.  Do you want me to continue or you can just admit you are in error?

30 million dead in the Great War..

 

80 in the 2nd.

 

Anyone claiming that the French or American intervention in Vietnam was precipitated by religion needs their head read-but it certainly was precipitated by ideology-yours

 

 

[xtrnuno41]

The god who is running up and around now, had only contact twice with Mozes, the Israelites.

Once by a burning bush and the second time? , on a mountain to get some stones around his neck to tell what people could or couldnt do, 10 commands. No sub additions in it.

LAter on as a reminder, he send his son Jesus to wonder around. The Israelites even dont recognize him as such. SO that was 2019 years ago.

Before that as the story goes, god killed the world with water, amazing concept for a god we should love. And way before that he crushed humankind with a forbidden fruit.

Was Eva created to make it more exciting for the man? Adam was to nice? SHe should stir it up a bit? To get the devil out of Adam more?

Sodom & Gomorra were burned down by god. He punished the Egyptians with many spells. And building the tower of Babylon, brought us our languages, all different. As the story goes.

Jeepers, i still remember all those things from my youth. Indoctrination? 

 

Of course we had at that time many other religions and the Jesus religion was a new kid in town and see it won in time. WE are still dealing with that, however made many religions around that. Religions are just indoctrinations by so called leaders in it, always been in other religions before that as well. SO nothing really changed but the amount of gods, there was just one.

That took a real load of us, just one.

We see people can be indoctrinated by (not only) religions and many people follow leaders with no good intentions at all, only for their own gain. You see them in country leading, business, persons, all with their own religion. And the rest just have to follow, otherwise you are out. Today's god is money, or was it always like that?! Guess its so.

 

THose leaders are even with god, as says on coins, "we trust in god" . ALso sayings like "so help me god" and so on. However they kill in name of their god, which cant be, one of the commands !

There were and are so many people killed , murdderd, mistreated in the name of god, it makes no sense. Of course it would be the free will , god gave us. 

 

Dont think there is an overall god, only within yourself there is a god and/or devil.

Depends on what you do and what you are. Your way  of thinking.

YOU do good, your god is winning , bad and your devil is winning.

You have to live with it and many people can live with their devil. 

 

[Odysseus123]

Just now, xtrnuno41 said:

The god who is running up and around now, had only contact twice with Mozes, the Israelites.

Once by a burning bush and the second time? , on a mountain to get some stones around his neck to tell what people could or couldnt do, 10 commands. No sub additions in it.

LAter on as a reminder, he send his son Jesus to wonder around. The Israelites even dont recognize him as such. SO that was 2019 years ago.

Before that as the story goes, god killed the world with water, amazing concept for a god we should love. And way before that he crushed humankind with a forbidden fruit.

Was Eva created to make it more exciting for the man? Adam was to nice? SHe should stir it up a bit? To get the devil out of Adam more?

Sodom & Gomorra were burned down by god. He punished the Egyptians with many spells. And building the tower of Babylon, brought us our languages, all different. As the story goes.

Jeepers, i still remember all those things from my youth. Indoctrination? 

 

Of course we had at that time many other religions and the Jesus religion was a new kid in town and see it won in time. WE are still dealing with that, however made many religions around that. Religions are just indoctrinations by so called leaders in it, always been in other religions before that as well. SO nothing really changed but the amount of gods, there was just one.

That took a real load of us, just one.

We see people can be indoctrinated by (not only) religions and many people follow leaders with no good intentions at all, only for their own gain. You see them in country leading, business, persons, all with their own religion. And the rest just have to follow, otherwise you are out. Today's god is money, or was it always like that?! Guess its so.

 

THose leaders are even with god, as says on coins, "we trust in god" . ALso sayings like "so help me god" and so on. However they kill in name of their god, which cant be, one of the commands !

There were and are so many people killed , murdderd, mistreated in the name of god, it makes no sense. Of course it would be the free will , god gave us. 

 

Dont think there is an overall god, only within yourself there is a god and/or devil.

Depends on what you do and what you are. Your way  of thinking.

YOU do good, your god is winning , bad and your devil is winning.

You have to live with it and many people can live with their devil. 

 

Plenty of other Gods..I believe in Huitzilopochtli myself..but that is highly contingent on Amazon sending me sacrificial victims thru the mail.

 

Between Amazon and Thai Post it's been a bit of a bummer recently..

[CharlieH]

some off topic posts removed.

[marcusarelus]

23 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

30 million dead in the Great War..

 

80 in the 2nd.

 

Anyone claiming that the French or American intervention in Vietnam was precipitated by religion needs their head read-but it certainly was precipitated by ideology-yours

Not my fault you don't know much about Asian history.  Nor do I think calling me crazy is an appropriate response to your lack of knowledge.  How many people were killed or starved in India and Pakistan as a result of religious differences?  Another area you know little about?  How many were killed in the conflicts between Jews and Arabs in the Middle East?  Another area you know little about?  How many were Christian vs Muslims were killed in the Bosnian wars?  Another area you know little about? 

 

Hitler killed 6 million Jews?  Why?  Because of their religion/god.  Another area you know little about?  Was the Armenian genocide caused by religion?  Another area you know little about?  How many were killed in that Christian vs Muslim conflict?  They drowned 50,000 in 1918.  1.5 million killed. 

 

Millions died as a result of god and religion in the present era.  That you aren't aware of it is not my fault. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by marcusarelus

[ballpoint]

God and religion are analogous to Monty Python's Black Knight.  At one time they were all powerful, and, by god (pun intended), you had better believe in them.  But, as the human race has progressed, it has cut away at the mysteries that once had no other explanation - to the point that there is simply no reason to believe in a god anymore.  Yet up he keeps popping, trying to tell us what to do.  As Lawrence Krauss once said, even if there was a god, they are now irrelevant.

 

To anyone doubting evolution, I would ask what they think causes bacteria to gradually become resistant to various antibiotics?  Is god constantly creating new and more virulent bugs to kill us?  What is causing isolated populations of the same species to diverge into separate ones?  Does god wait till we're asleep and gradually replace them with the new species?  Why, if man was created specially in god's image (sorry ladies, god must be a male), do we share so much DNA with chimpanzees?  God had a few bits left over after making Adam, so stuck some hair on them and created chimps?  He couldn't even do that with women, had to use a rib for that.  I find the whole god business ridiculous.  And, if anyone is going to threaten that their imaginary friend will beat me up, or throw me into a fire because of those views, then the ridicule just becomes greater.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by ballpoint

[ncc1701d]

“In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”

[Odysseus123]

4 minutes ago, ncc1701d said:

“In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”

Kinda true..at least it has made a lot of people somewhat puzzled and irritated.

 

God will get back to you in due time...when he hears from HR.

[Muzarella]

To believe in a human God, or human mentor, when we have millions of planets on the Universe and thousands of extraterrestrials flying our skies for millenniums, portrayed on ancient walls and always with pacific intentions, do not make any sense.

If any God created the human race it was not perfect or wise. The human race is the only one that kills its own species for not surviving reasons on this planet.

Extraterrestrials have the power to end this world, but they do not have the needs or the intention just because they are better than humans. If they have Gods, no doubts they are better than any adored by the human race.

Humans and their Gods are an inferior class on the Universe.

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Muzarella

[55Jay]

2 hours ago, Grusa said:

I do not.

 

But, Pascals' Wager applies. To paraphrase:-

1. If I believe in God, and He exists, I will go to Heaven.

2. If I believe in God, and He does not exist, I gain nothing, and lose nothing.

3. If I do not believe in God, and He exists, I go to Hell.

4. If I do not believe in God, and He does not exist, I gain nothing, and lose nothing

On the balance of the argument, it is safer to believe in God than not.

 

Take your chances, guys!

You could be convinced to believe in and comply with pretty much anything as long as the Pavlovianesque risk/reward structure was compelling enough.  Also relates to crime and punishment systems.

 

An old school, non-religious example is, or was, "Never go swimming within 30 minutes of eating, or else you could DIE!  Some adults ratcheted it up to certain death, just to make sure the kids were scared shitless and complied. 

 

I remember sitting there with all the other annoyed kids, waiting the prescribed 30 minutes but thinking to myself, "Really?  This sounds like BS".  But you didn't question adults, and of course we didn't want to risk death, so we complied to stay alive. 

 

Those indoctrinated kids grew up and told their kids the same thing even though they didn't actually know if there was any truth to it, or not.  But Aunt Debbie back in 1972 "probably" knew and so on that basis alone, it carried on into the next generation.

 

Better to be safe than sorry.

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by 55Jay

[androokery]

On 4/14/2019 at 6:17 PM, mauGR1 said:

Mocking what you don't understand is just silly imo, i didn't say that i know that god exist, i just said that my logic, not your logic, tells me that there is an intelligent design.

Yeah that's not based on logic. I'm afraid you're abusing the language if you think that it's "logic".