Do you believe in God and why

[sirineou]

44 minutes ago, yodsak said:

Science: Consider the instincts of animals--where do they come from?  How can a bird, for example, weave a nest without its parents ever having taught it. 

Have you google it?

Plenty of info in the subject. Use search term"bird nest building genetic template " and " how do birds know to make a nest"

[yodsak]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Have you google it?

Plenty of info in the subject. Use search term"bird nest building genetic template " and " how do birds know to make a nest"

 

Thats not my quote.   And yes I did google it out of interest.

 I was replying to Asian at heart the biologist who obviously hasn't.

Edited December 30, 2019 by yodsak

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, yodsak said:

 

Thats not my quote.   Yes I did google it ...  I was replying to Asian at heart who obviously hasn't.

Sorry. gets a bit confusing , i thought I was responding to Asianatheart

[yodsak]

On 12/29/2019 at 6:53 AM, soalbundy said:

As a modern man with a western education do you really believe in a virgin birth ?

[AsianAtHeart]

To answer some of the flood questions posted by various people within the past several pages of posts here, let me offer some scientific rationale, from a biologist's perspective, in support of the Biblical account.  Many biologists seem willfully ignorant of these things because they wish to dismiss God as having any part in them.  However, the facts still remain true, and the reader may decide how to interpret them.

First, what was the earth like before the Flood?

According to the Bible, God created an atmosphere between layers of water--the waters on the earth, naturally, would include its seas, fountains, and rivers, but the waters above the earth appear to have been something considerably more than mere clouds.  In fact, there may have been no clouds at all, as the Bible tells us that the earth was watered by a mist that would come up from the ground, and not by rain.  Even today, in many parts of the world, underground water aquifers are found, and springs of water are well known throughout the world.  It was essentially an underground sprinkler system, most of which was defaced during the Flood.

The waters that were above the earth would have regulated global temperatures, preventing the degree of seasonality we see today with extreme temperatures and weather events.  But they would have done far more than this.

Air bubbles preserved in amber from thousands of years ago have been tested and analyzed.  The air at the time of their formation contained closer to 36 percent oxygen, compared with the 21 percent we see today.  And there was much less carbon-14.  With a layer of water in the upper atmosphere, several significant points would have been true: 1) The atmosphere would have had greater protection from cosmic radiation, assisting the ozone layer in making earth a safer habitat for human life; 2) The weight of the atmosphere would have been much greater, increasing the barometric pressure; and 3) Far less carbon-14 would have formed in the upper atmosphere due to the protective layer of water.

At these higher barometric pressures and with over 50% more atmospheric oxygen, plasma in our blood can carry oxygen, freeing up the red blood cells for other important tasks in healing the body and removing wastes.  This is one of the principles accounted for in modern-day hyperbaric treatment.  Hyperbaric treatment considerably speeds the body's healing process.  Living all the time in an atmosphere like this would certainly have promoted longevity.  And the Biblical record shows that this was the case.  Adam, the first man, who ate from the Tree of Life, is said to have lived for 930 years.  Eight generations later, Methuselah lived for 969 years--the longest we have on record--dying just about a year before the Flood.  Noah was 600 when the flood came, but still lived another 350 years afterward to reach the age of 950.  After the Flood, with the atmospheric changes in addition to the dietary changes (meat eating became a habit as it was necessary at first until the plants had grown again), the lifespans rapidly decreased.  Noah's son Shem lived 600 years.  His grandson lived 438 years. His great-great-great-grandson lived 239 years.  By the tenth generation, the lifespan had dropped to 175 years.  God seems to have stepped in twice to prevent the lifespan from reducing too much; once to set the average lifespan to 120 years, and later, at 70 years.  Still today, the average is around 70 years, though this can be improved a little through lifestyle and diet.  My grandfather is 96, still lives alone, travels the world, and drives his car--his current license will be valid until he's 101.  He has been a vegetarian for his entire life.

Now, back to the carbon-14 levels:  Before the Flood, only a fraction as much C-14 existed in the atmosphere as we have today.  This means that pre-Flood relics that are tested for their carbon ratios will all appear to be older than they actually are.  Dinosaur fossils, carbon-dated to millions of years ago, may very well have been only 5,000 old.  The scientists of today have made the unproven assumption that carbon-14 levels have remained essentially constant throughout time, and upon that basis, they assume it to have been the same in the older fossils as they observe today.  But that is not a valid assumption.  In fact, any true scientist worth his salt should see evidence from modern history that carbon-14 levels have changed, and are changing constantly.  Our present levels are dropping, following a spike in the 1940's and 50's due to nuclear bombs and testing.  This means that dating fossils based on their carbon-14 levels is actually largely invalid science, as it presupposes knowledge of what that level was at the time of preservation of the fossil, which is knowledge that we simply do not have.  Is the rate of decay constant?  Yes, that does appear to be a reliable constant.  But we simply do not have any assurance of knowing the starting levels of C-14 at any given period of history, which is why assuming that it must have always been what we see today is such unsound science.

Most people don't know that scientists rarely use carbon-dating anyhow.  They often attempt to date the rocks using other isotopes, and once that is done, they make another assumption that the apparent age of the rocks will equal that of the fossils found in it.  They proceed to assign a date to the fossils without testing the fossils themselves (testing is a destructive process, and they prefer to preserve the relics without damaging them) based on the age of the rocks.  But if I bury you in ancient rock, and then base your age on those rocks, how would that be sound science?  It isn't.  But scientists like to know everything, and admit of no ignorance, so they will push numbers around in a way that makes it appear they know what they're doing.  Most of the public are thus led to believe that their "facts" must be true, and one of the greatest fallacies employed in the process is the appeal to numbers--since so many people say it is so, it must be so.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, Tagged said:

Read my post, Im not claiming anything!

 I did and " Never heard a selfclaimed athiest say anything close to that!" sounds like a "claim" to me.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

if you speak the truth you don't make a lot of friends.

and telling friends the truth doesn't bode well for the friendship, as I discovered the hard way.

Everyone lies, though most only lie about the little things, like "no, your bum doesn't look big in that" with the possible exception of "I love you".

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and telling friends the truth doesn't bode well for the friendship, as I discovered the hard way.

Everyone lies, though most only lie about the little things, like "no, your bum doesn't look big in that" with the possible exception of "I love you".

You make a lot of sense

[mauGR1]

4 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

To answer some of the flood questions posted by various people within the past several pages of posts here, let me offer some scientific rationale, from a biologist's perspective, in support of the Biblical account.  Many biologists seem willfully ignorant of these things because they wish to dismiss God as having any part in them.  However, the facts still remain true, and the reader may decide how to interpret them.

 

Interesting post, and the theory of the different concentration of oxygen may explain the long life of those ancestors.

Perhaps may explain also the giants which the Bible talks about. Nephilim, i think.

 

There is a story on the Bible about the sun being still in the sky for 3 days, what do you think ?

 

..And you seem to dismiss the legend of Atlantis, which might explain the common source of all languages, according to some theories.

..And many other things.

 

Happy New Year All.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Interesting post, and the theory of the different concentration of oxygen may explain the long life of those ancestors.

Perhaps may explain also the giants which the Bible talks about. Nephilim, i think.

 

There is a story on the Bible about the sun being still in the sky for 3 days, what do you think ?

 

..And you seem to dismiss the legend of Atlantis, which might explain the common source of all languages, according to some theories.

..And many other things.

 

Happy New Year All.

 

 

I have a theory that says Atlantis existed and aliens lived there which explains a lot of the rock carvings in South America. They and Atlantis vanished in a catastrophe of some sort which would explain why no trace of it has been found, and the people left behind without their technology became primitive and had to start over from scratch.

As good a theory as any.

[AsianAtHeart]

Considering the Flood Further

Many skeptics deride the idea of a world-wide flood that covered the tops of all the mountains based on the height of Mount Everest at over 29,000 feet.  If Everest had existed at the time of the Flood, they would indeed have a case.  However, they have not stopped to consider the manner and timing of Everest's origins.

Mount Everest is in the area known as the Himalayas.  Scientists currently believe that entire area was once a seabed.  Fossils of fish have been found in the rocks of the mountains.  Scientists believe that these mountains formed about 10 million years ago, but this belief is based on the same assumptions I earlier detailed.   (See my previous post for more of the background in their dating.)

I believe the scientists who identify the rock strata in the Himalayas as having been a seabed are not far from the truth.  Whether the fish fossils came from the sea or the "great sea" present during the Flood is really not important to me.  What is important is the fact that Everest was not "Mount Everest" at that time.  Tectonic plate movements resulted in its uplift, and its current height.  As continental plates moved against each other, the ground, having nowhere else to go, pushed upward.  

Almost all scientists agree that the earth was once more well connected in terms of its land masses, but that the various continents we see today were separated by tectonic plate movements.  The interesting thing is that the Bible tells us when this happened.  It was shortly (about a hundred years) after the Flood.  Consider this text: "And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan." (Genesis 10:25)  So we see that Peleg was given his name on account of the division of the earth.  When was Peleg born?  The next chapter records the relevant information for us. 
 

Quote

11:10    These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:  
 11:11    And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.  
 11:12    And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah:  
 11:13    And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.  
 11:14    And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber:  
 11:15    And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.  
 11:16    And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg:  

So, Arphaxad was born two years after the Flood.  When he was 35, he fathered Salah, who fathered Eber at the age of 30.  Eber fathered Peleg 34 years later.  Adding it up, we get 2 + 35 + 30 + 34 = 101.  

Taking the division of the earth as the demarcation point for the start of the post-Flood continental drift movements, it is quickly evident that Mount Everest would have arisen during this time period.  How high would the waters have needed to be to cover the entire earth?  That depends, of course, on how high the highest points of land were before the Flood.  If we were to melt all of the present-day ice found in glaciers, Antarctica, etc., and cause all of the cloudwaters to descend and join the sea, we might have some idea as to how much the water would have covered.  This, in turn, would help us predict the height of the terrain before the Flood.  However, even this would be subject to a few additional variables.

Today we have large underground water reservoirs and lakes.  It is possible that these have helped to raise the terrain above water that has been sequestered below it since the Flood.  The amount of ground saturation of the water before and afterward may also have a considerable impact, but since the pre-Flood levels cannot be known, we have no reasonable method for estimating this.  But the final variable, and the most likely to have an impact, is this: The weight of the waters that descended from the atmospheric layer, which now forms our vast oceans, likely precipitated, in large part, the subsequent tectonic shifts, and the waters themselves likely displaced some of the elevation of the land masses, causing the land to rise by an amount proportionate to the mass of the water.

Consider an iceberg:  The ice in an iceberg, if melted, would not cause the sea level to rise.  It protrudes above the surface of the water because ice is less dense than the seawater around it.  In similar fashion, all of the land and water masses that we see on the surface of our planet are floating on liquid magma in the core of the earth.  The liquid magma is dense, and the less-dense surface strata ride on it.  When a large mass is added at any point, it may well cause shifting in the plates below.  

An interesting case in point is the Taipei 101 building, which, at the time of its construction, was the tallest building in the world.  Scientists have noticed a distinct uptick in the numbers of earthquakes that seem centered in the area of the building following its erection, and they believe this has much to do with the amount of mass the building added to the ground at that site.  If you have been to the building, you would likely have seen the huge steel balls used inside the building as counterbalances to offset bending/swaying movements precipitated by earthquakes or winds.  It was a marvel of engineering, but the weight of the structure was far from insignificant.  Now some blame the building for the recent micro-quakes, since, as it is said, "the steel and concrete used to build Taipei 101 weighs 700,000 tons and . . . the stress from vertical loading (700,000 tons over 3.7 acres) exerts a pressure of 4.7 bars on the ground below."

 

[AsianAtHeart]

28 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

 

..And you seem to dismiss the legend of Atlantis, which might explain the common source of all languages, according to some theories.

Not having studied the history of Atlantis, I neither dismiss it, nor endorse it.  I tend to avoid opining on things of which I feel ignorant.

However, the Bible shares the story of how the various languages started.  It's in Genesis chapter 11 as well.  The nutshell version is that after the Flood, even though God had promised not to wipe out virtually the entire population of Earth again by a flood, and God had created the rainbow as His token of this promise (another evidence that before the Flood there had not been rain), a group of rebels who thought they could simply avoid being killed by the next flood if one came began to build the world's tallest, and strongest, tower.  They built the tower so high that it would exceed the height of the waters of the Flood.  According to the Bible, when God saw their tower He was displeased, realizing that since the people all had one language, it facilitated their cooperation in working together against God on such a grand scale as this.  So He decided to confuse their language, and thus put a stop to their work.  The city was afterward called "Babel," meaning confusion, especially of speech, or stammering.  The word is still synonymous with these meanings today.  If someone "babbles," it means their speech is incoherent.  

Imagine asking for a hammer and getting a brick with a confused look as if to say "what in the world are you saying?"  God definitely has a sense of humor!  From there, the great migration spread, and people went off in various directions with others who spoke their language.

[OneMoreFarang]

Can we have a new thread next year please: Why do some people in the year 2020 still believe in something that is not based on facts?

Basically nobody believes anymore in unicorns or the tooth fairy. Why do people still believe in god?

[mauGR1]

41 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Not having studied the history of Atlantis, I neither dismiss it, nor endorse it.  I tend to avoid opining on things of which I feel ignorant.

However, the Bible shares the story of how the various languages started.  It's in Genesis chapter 11 as well.  The nutshell version is that after the Flood, even though God had promised not to wipe out virtually the entire population of Earth again by a flood, and God had created the rainbow as His token of this promise (another evidence that before the Flood there had not been rain), a group of rebels who thought they could simply avoid being killed by the next flood if one came began to build the world's tallest, and strongest, tower.  They built the tower so high that it would exceed the height of the waters of the Flood.  According to the Bible, when God saw their tower He was displeased, realizing that since the people all had one language, it facilitated their cooperation in working together against God on such a grand scale as this.  So He decided to confuse their language, and thus put a stop to their work.  The city was afterward called "Babel," meaning confusion, especially of speech, or stammering.  The word is still synonymous with these meanings today.  If someone "babbles," it means their speech is incoherent.  

Imagine asking for a hammer and getting a brick with a confused look as if to say "what in the world are you saying?"  God definitely has a sense of humor!  From there, the great migration spread, and people went off in various directions with others who spoke their language.

Great post, avoids me to search for specific parts of the Bible.

I'll ask you again, do you remember the part where the sun stops in the sky, does it have something to do with a catastrophe ?

Well. i assume that people in a certain town in the middle east did not know much of what was happening in Americas, Asia, Australia, Africa etc.... So do you think all the stories written in the Bible were happening somewhere near Middle East ?

[Tagged]

I start understanding now, why this planet goes to hell with all onboard! 

 

Happy new year!

[AsianAtHeart]

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Great post, avoids me to search for specific parts of the Bible.

I'll ask you again, do you remember the part where the sun stops in the sky, does it have something to do with a catastrophe ?

Well. i assume that people in a certain town in the middle east did not know much of what was happening in Americas, Asia, Australia, Africa etc.... So do you think all the stories written in the Bible were happening somewhere near Middle East ?

Perhaps the story you speak of is recorded in Joshua chapter 10.

Quote

 

10:12    Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.  
 10:13    And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.  
 10:14    And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel. 

 

However, there was another notable occurrence relative to the sun as well.  In Joshua's case, the sun stood still for about a day, making the longest day in history--about 36 hours of daylight.  As a scientist, knowing the orbit of the earth on its axis as well as around the sun, the best way for me to account for this miracle would be simply that, despite the earth continuing its rotation, God redirected the light of the sun to that valley of Ajalon until that same time the next day.  It would be easier to simply create such a light over the valley than to stop and restart the orbit of the earth, stopping at the same time the tides, the orbit of the waters, etc.  God may well have allowed a large asteroid to hit the earth to start the Flood, as that would have broken through the atmospheric layer of water, hit the earth, and shifted it on its access, causing the waters under the earth to gush out as the momentum of their course was disrupted.  So without putting a freeze on all of this, too, which God could certainly have done, simply stopping the earth's orbit would have potentially caused such a major catastrophe again.  But that brings us to the second occurrence, for which a simpler explanation indeed seems to be impossible.  We find this second instance in the book of Second Kings:

Quote

 20:1    In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And the prophet Isaiah the son of Amoz came to him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live.  
 20:2    Then he turned his face to the wall, and prayed unto the LORD, saying,  
 20:3    I beseech thee, O LORD, remember now how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.  
 20:4    And it came to pass, afore Isaiah was gone out into the middle court, that the word of the LORD came to him, saying,  
 20:5    Turn again, and tell Hezekiah the captain of my people, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will heal thee: on the third day thou shalt go up unto the house of the LORD.  
 20:6    And I will add unto thy days fifteen years; and I will deliver thee and this city out of the hand of the king of Assyria; and I will defend this city for mine own sake, and for my servant David's sake.  
 20:7    And Isaiah said, Take a lump of figs. And they took and laid it on the boil, and he recovered.  
 20:8    And Hezekiah said unto Isaiah, What shall be the sign that the LORD will heal me, and that I shall go up into the house of the LORD the third day?  
 20:9    And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the LORD, that the LORD will do the thing that he hath spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees?  
 20:10    And Hezekiah answered, It is a light thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees: nay, but let the shadow return backward ten degrees.  
 20:11    And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz. 

 

So the shadow from the sun dial regressed 10 degrees.  This amazing historical fact was noticed in other countries as well.

[Sunmaster]

10 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

To answer some of the flood questions posted by various people within the past several pages of posts here, let me offer some scientific rationale, from a biologist's perspective, in support of the Biblical account.  Many biologists seem willfully ignorant of these things because they wish to dismiss God as having any part in them.  However, the facts still remain true, and the reader may decide how to interpret them.

[....]

 

I admit, I've read about the bible but never read the thing itself. I know even less about biology.

What I do know is that the bible is full of allegories and parables that shouldn't be taken literally. 

It gets problematic when one has a belief already made up and then tries to adjust and squeeze other truths to fit that belief. A bit like the fat stepsister trying to fit in Cinderella's crystal shoe. ???? 
That goes for the early church fathers who conveniently edited their holy scriptures to serve their agendas (see the issue about reincarnation), as well as modern day bible interpreters. 
 

I don't know...carbon dating may not be without faults, but to say that dinosaurs were roaming the earth 5.000 years ago seems quite a stretch, don't you think? ???? 

[AsianAtHeart]

13 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

 

I admit, I've read about the bible but never read the thing itself. I know even less about biology.

...

I don't know...carbon dating may not be without faults, but to say that dinosaurs were roaming the earth 5.000 years ago seems quite a stretch, don't you think? ???? 

Before judging the accuracy of the Bible, it would be good to read it.  For myself, at least, I prefer to avoid being biased against something before I know about it.  As for it being "quite a stretch" to think dinosaurs were roaming the earth 5,000 years ago, as a biologist, I have to say it is far, far, far more of a stretch to think we could find blood vessels in 68-million-year-old fossilized bones.  And that we have found them is totally a fact.  Ask Dr. Google, and I'm sure you will be able to verify this.

[mauGR1]

20 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Perhaps the story you speak of is recorded in Joshua chapter 10.

However, there was another notable occurrence relative to the sun as well.  In Joshua's case, the sun stood still for about a day, making the longest day in history--about 36 hours of daylight.  As a scientist, knowing the orbit of the earth on its axis as well as around the sun, the best way for me to account for this miracle would be simply that, despite the earth continuing its rotation, God redirected the light of the sun to that valley of Ajalon until that same time the next day.  It would be easier to simply create such a light over the valley than to stop and restart the orbit of the earth, stopping at the same time the tides, the orbit of the waters, etc.  God may well have allowed a large asteroid to hit the earth to start the Flood, as that would have broken through the atmospheric layer of water, hit the earth, and shifted it on its access, causing the waters under the earth to gush out as the momentum of their course was disrupted.  So without putting a freeze on all of this, too, which God could certainly have done, simply stopping the earth's orbit would have potentially caused such a major catastrophe again.  But that brings us to the second occurrence, for which a simpler explanation indeed seems to be impossible.  We find this second instance in the book of Second Kings:

So the shadow from the sun dial regressed 10 degrees.  This amazing historical fact was noticed in other countries as well.

For some reason, possibly some teen rebellion, i have never been fond of reading the Bible, but nice to hear from someone with a good knowledge of the Book.

In a previous post, you were mentioning the magma core of the planet, and the harder layers which eventually form the crust,

Given that, and given that the earth is not spherical, but it's the oceans who make it look so, an asteroid large enough could alter the axis of rotation dramatically, moving huge masses of water.

There are theories which suggest that even the speed of rotation was different in the old times, perhaps that might explain the giants and their long lives.

Well, if you have time, there is a lot of literature on the catastrophes of the past, and with your scientific attitude, it should be easy to discern the possible and the impossible.

[yodsak]

18 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Before judging the accuracy of the Bible, it would be good to read it.  For myself, at least, I prefer to avoid being biased against something before I know about it.  As for it being "quite a stretch" to think dinosaurs were roaming the earth 5,000 years ago, as a biologist, I have to say it is far, far, far more of a stretch to think we could find blood vessels in 68-million-year-old fossilized bones.  And that we have found them is totally a fact.  Ask Dr. Google, and I'm sure you will be able to verify this.

 

[Sunmaster]

12 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Before judging the accuracy of the Bible, it would be good to read it.  For myself, at least, I prefer to avoid being biased against something before I know about it.  As for it being "quite a stretch" to think dinosaurs were roaming the earth 5,000 years ago, as a biologist, I have to say it is far, far, far more of a stretch to think we could find blood vessels in 68-million-year-old fossilized bones.  And that we have found them is totally a fact.  Ask Dr. Google, and I'm sure you will be able to verify this.

Personally, I already believe (more than believe actually) in the existence of a higher power, so I don't feel the need to read about who has begotten whom and when, vague historical "facts" to validate my point of view.

 

If you recommend reading it for personal betterment, then I would say "thanks but no thanks" as well, because in my opinion there are scores of other books who present the same truth, but in a much clearer and more approachable form. True radical transformation rarely comes by reading a book, but through deep introspection. At least, that's my experience. 

 

I appreciate that you are knowledgeable about this book and I do enjoy reading your post. Being a biologist is also an interesting spin on the whole bible thing.

However, I feel there's something important missing in this discussion. 

Has studying the bible brought you closer to God? And if yes, how? On an intellectual level or something deeper?

 

[Skeptic7]

8 hours ago, yodsak said:

the biologist

[Skeptic7]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have a theory that says Atlantis existed and aliens lived there which explains a lot of the rock carvings in South America. They and Atlantis vanished in a catastrophe of some sort which would explain why no trace of it has been found, and the people left behind without their technology became primitive and had to start over from scratch.

As good a theory as any.

No, it isn't. ????

[Ketyo]

A lack of critical thinking in the education system leads to people believing what they are told to believe.

 

That's why religious cults like home schooling.  It's also a major reason poor countries are more religious than rich ones.

 

America is the exception. But America was founded by extremist religious groups expelled from Europe as the 'land of the free'... i.e. freedom to practice their religions. Also the American curriculum is more perspective oriented (pro-American) and teaches less critical thinking than other rich countries for every age group to Bachelor's level.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Ketyo

[AsianAtHeart]

41 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Personally, I already believe (more than believe actually) in the existence of a higher power, so I don't feel the need to read about who has begotten whom and when, vague historical "facts" to validate my point of view.

 

If you recommend reading it for personal betterment, then I would say "thanks but no thanks" as well, because in my opinion there are scores of other books who present the same truth, but in a much clearer and more approachable form. True radical transformation rarely comes by reading a book, but through deep introspection. At least, that's my experience. 

 

I appreciate that you are knowledgeable about this book and I do enjoy reading your post. Being a biologist is also an interesting spin on the whole bible thing.

However, I feel there's something important missing in this discussion. 

Has studying the bible brought you closer to God? And if yes, how? On an intellectual level or something deeper?

 

Knowing God has changed me completely and has altered the course of my life--my life having had so many experiences, it would be impossible to condense them all here in even a series of posts.  But I have earlier in this topic mentioned a few in which God clearly was involved, such as the miracle of the car turning to avoid an accident.  Just this year I was involved in a rollover vehicle accident in which I was riding in the rear of the vehicle.  The accident took place in the so-called "kong roi sop" (100-Corpse Curves) in Loei province.  The same morning of the accident, at least two other vehicles had gone off the road, and at least one lady was hospitalized.  But I walked away from it with no need of hospital care.  God is good.  I feel God walking with me, working with me, teaching me, and helping me on a constant basis.  It is because of God that I am able to accomplish as much as I do.  Without His help, I fear I would never have made a success of my life.  It is said that behind every good man is a good woman.  Well, I think we could add a corollary to say that behind every truly happy person who has peace and joy in life is a relationship with a loving God.  I am doing a work for God, and because He gave me a sign that I was to do it, I know it is His desire for me to do it.  As that work is not yet finished, I sense His hand of protection around me.  If I wander away from His side, of course, I may be in danger--but as long as I stay close to Him, I almost feel invincible.  God's enemy likely wished to finish me so that I could not do the work that I am doing; but God is stronger, and did not allow the devil to interfere.

I do not always feel proud of myself.  I make mistakes like anyone else.  I get weary, hungry, and irritable; and I say things I later regret.  But with God's help, I have not made bigger mistakes.  I am often tempted to do things that could ruin my reputation; but I steadfastly stay true to my morals.  If God were not with me, I am sure I would be too weak for this.  Personally, I need God.  But you know what?  God needs me, too.  This is where I think many people do not understand God.  They don't realize that God has given them free will, not just as a gift from a loving God, but as a sign of His justice to the watching universe.  Yes, I believe that there are other life forms observing us on planet earth.  They are not like those depicted in the movies.  They are not our enemies.  But they are watching this sin experiment with interest--as they have had the opportunity to follow our example if they wished.  At this point, I think they've nearly seen enough to be firmly against sin.  When their decisions are made final, God will step in and intervene here on Earth.  That will be the end of this existence as we know it.  And God needs His people to show His character to the world before those final decisions are made.  When the character of Christ is perfectly reproduced in His people, it will prove once and for all to all the universe that God's law is fair--whereas Satan has claimed it is not fair, and that no one could possibly keep it.  God's law represents His character.  It is the law of love.  Every part of God's law is for our happiness.  Satan has tried to make it appear that we could be happier without the law.  But what kind of happiness is that?

I have a relative who was working in Bangkok as a young man, early 20's, but who did not have the same lifestyle I have.  He was not a Christian, and was drinking with his buddies.  Having drunk enough to fog his thoughts and cloud his judgment, he kissed a lady there present.  The lady was his friend's girlfriend, and when the lady's boyfriend witnessed this, he was greatly angered.  He followed the young man to where he lay down on his bed, and knifed him to the heart.  I attended the funeral.  Sad.  All too often, the so-called "happy hour" ends in misery.  And "happy hour" is a fitting name for it--because that's all it seems to last.  Alcohol does not make one's life happy; it only medicates the mind momentarily, and gives a feeling akin to happiness.  I seek true happiness, and could never be satisfied with this pseudo-happiness.  Most posting here have similar desires deep inside.  Until we find God, and the happiness that only He, as our creator, knows how to give us, we have a certain sense of emptiness that is never filled.  Some might call it a malaise.  Some might feel disconsolate; at the extreme, desolate.  But it is not true satisfaction or peace.  This is predicted in the Bible: "There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked" (Isaiah 57:21).

[mauGR1]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have a theory that says Atlantis existed and aliens lived there which explains a lot of the rock carvings in South America. They and Atlantis vanished in a catastrophe of some sort which would explain why no trace of it has been found, and the people left behind without their technology became primitive and had to start over from scratch.

As good a theory as any.

Well, the theories must be cross-checked to see if they are plausible, but some ancient ruins seem hardly the work of normal humans in the bronze age.

For all we know, the "Gods" flying with fire chariots described in ancient legends, not only in the Bible, could be aliens, or even travellers from the future.

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Knowing God has changed me completely and has altered the course of my life--my life having had so many experiences, it would be impossible to condense them all here in even a series of posts.  But I have earlier in this topic mentioned a few in which God clearly was involved, such as the miracle of the car turning to avoid an accident.  Just this year I was involved in a rollover vehicle accident in which I was riding in the rear of the vehicle.  The accident took place in the so-called "kong roi sop" (100-Corpse Curves) in Loei province.  The same morning of the accident, at least two other vehicles had gone off the road, and at least one lady was hospitalized.  But I walked away from it with no need of hospital care.  God is good.  I feel God walking with me, working with me, teaching me, and helping me on a constant basis.  It is because of God that I am able to accomplish as much as I do.  Without His help, I fear I would never have made a success of my life.  It is said that behind every good man is a good woman.  Well, I think we could add a corollary to say that behind every truly happy person who has peace and joy in life is a relationship with a loving God.  I am doing a work for God, and because He gave me a sign that I was to do it, I know it is His desire for me to do it.  As that work is not yet finished, I sense His hand of protection around me.  If I wander away from His side, of course, I may be in danger--but as long as I stay close to Him, I almost feel invincible.  God's enemy likely wished to finish me so that I could not do the work that I am doing; but God is stronger, and did not allow the devil to interfere.

I do not always feel proud of myself.  I make mistakes like anyone else.  I get weary, hungry, and irritable; and I say things I later regret.  But with God's help, I have not made bigger mistakes.  I am often tempted to do things that could ruin my reputation; but I steadfastly stay true to my morals.  If God were not with me, I am sure I would be too weak for this.  Personally, I need God.  But you know what?  God needs me, too.  This is where I think many people do not understand God.  They don't realize that God has given them free will, not just as a gift from a loving God, but as a sign of His justice to the watching universe.  Yes, I believe that there are other life forms observing us on planet earth.  They are not like those depicted in the movies.  They are not our enemies.  But they are watching this sin experiment with interest--as they have had the opportunity to follow our example if they wished.  At this point, I think they've nearly seen enough to be firmly against sin.  When their decisions are made final, God will step in and intervene here on Earth.  That will be the end of this existence as we know it.  And God needs His people to show His character to the world before those final decisions are made.  When the character of Christ is perfectly reproduced in His people, it will prove once and for all to all the universe that God's law is fair--whereas Satan has claimed it is not fair, and that no one could possibly keep it.  God's law represents His character.  It is the law of love.  Every part of God's law is for our happiness.  Satan has tried to make it appear that we could be happier without the law.  But what kind of happiness is that?

I have a relative who was working in Bangkok as a young man, early 20's, but who did not have the same lifestyle I have.  He was not a Christian, and was drinking with his buddies.  Having drunk enough to fog his thoughts and cloud his judgment, he kissed a lady there present.  The lady was his friend's girlfriend, and when the lady's boyfriend witnessed this, he was greatly angered.  He followed the young man to where he lay down on his bed, and knifed him to the heart.  I attended the funeral.  Sad.  All too often, the so-called "happy hour" ends in misery.  And "happy hour" is a fitting name for it--because that's all it seems to last.  Alcohol does not make one's life happy; it only medicates the mind momentarily, and gives a feeling akin to happiness.  I seek true happiness, and could never be satisfied with this pseudo-happiness.  Most posting here have similar desires deep inside.  Until we find God, and the happiness that only He, as our creator, knows how to give us, we have a certain sense of emptiness that is never filled.  Some might call it a malaise.  Some might feel disconsolate; at the extreme, desolate.  But it is not true satisfaction or peace.  This is predicted in the Bible: "There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked" (Isaiah 57:21).

Thank you for your honest answer. I can relate to many things you said, especially about your everyday relationship with God and how it changed your life getting to know him.

 

On the other hand, there are things that are completely extraneous to how I perceive the world, such as the biblical concepts of "sin" and the "devil".

Good and bad, god and the devil/Satan, sin and merit.....they are all dualistic concepts and only make sense in our world of illusion. GOD is all that together and much more, GOD doesn't have an opposite, because there's nothing GOD isn't. 

 

One thing is not clear to me yet...did you experience God first and then make sense of it through Christianity and the bible, or did you experience God through studying the bible?

[AsianAtHeart]

25 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Thank you for your honest answer. I can relate to many things you said, especially about your everyday relationship with God and how it changed your life getting to know him.

 

On the other hand, there are things that are completely extraneous to how I perceive the world, such as the biblical concepts of "sin" and the "devil".

Good and bad, god and the devil/Satan, sin and merit.....they are all dualistic concepts and only make sense in our world of illusion. GOD is all that together and much more, GOD doesn't have an opposite, because there's nothing GOD isn't. 

 

One thing is not clear to me yet...did you experience God first and then make sense of it through Christianity and the bible, or did you experience God through studying the bible?

I'm not really sure which happened first.  I've either known God, or known about Him, from my earliest memories--but my parents were teaching me from the Bible.  My grandmother had a habit of praying for each of her grandchildren by name every day, and I believe that God was answering her prayers.  Apart from the knowledge of scripture received from my parents, in my early teen years I began my own personal relationship with God, going on prayer walks, alone, in which I would talk and reason with God, and ask for His guidance and help in my life.  It was in my later teens that I heard my name called in the night--I believe it was by an angel--to awaken me on a particularly special occasion.  No one else in the house was awake or in my room. 

 

But it was as a child that I, being lonely and depressed, and feeling uncertain as to whether God really loved sorry me (I didn't really doubt that He existed, only that He took any notice of me), went out at night and cried alone in the darkness to God.  I saw a patch of sky towards the north in which there appeared to be no stars.  I said, "God, if you love me, send a shooting star right there."  Then I waited.  Nothing happened.  I waited some more.  Still nothing happened.  (Remember, to a child a small amount of time can seem like an eternity.)  I had just begun to commiserate with myself that "See! Not even God loves me."--when, perhaps it was a full 45 seconds after my prayer, there was a shooting star just where I had requested it to be.  And it was no ordinary shooting star.  It was long, and beautiful.  And just as I began to cheer up a little at the sight of it, a second one came, equally long and beautiful, and in exactly the same spot!  It was as if I could hear God saying, "I don't just love you...I REALLY love you."

When one has had direct visual evidence in answer to prayer, when one has heard His voice, felt His presence, and enjoyed the peace that only He can offer, one can never again return to thinking that God does not exist or that He is indifferent.  As the Bible says, "O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him." (Psalm 34:8).  I have tasted and seen that God is good, and I feel blessed in trusting Him.

Perhaps I can share more about God's enemy, Satan, in another post.  Suffice it to say, I have had personal encounters with him, too--though I never wished to.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Can we have a new thread next year please: Why do some people in the year 2020 still believe in something that is not based on facts?

Basically nobody believes anymore in unicorns or the tooth fairy. Why do people still believe in god?

I'm at a loss to explain that post. Mainly because I fail to understand why you would even feel a need to post it. I also fail to understand why someone that feels that way about a thread even bothers to come on and read it. It's not as though the hand of God came down and forced your finger to click on it.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, the theories must be cross-checked to see if they are plausible, but some ancient ruins seem hardly the work of normal humans in the bronze age.

For all we know, the "Gods" flying with fire chariots described in ancient legends, not only in the Bible, could be aliens, or even travellers from the future.

I'm sticking with aliens.