Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, CMNightRider said:

I believe that is projection on your part.  The Bible is very clear on what happens to us when we die.  Everyone will kneel before Jesus, and we will all spend eternity in either Heaven or Hell.  To pretend otherwise is a very foolish decision.  

 

For those who have actually read the Bible, Revelation is crystal clear about how events will unfold in the "end times."  We are living in the end times.  

 

Think for a moment we didn't evolve from some single cell in some obscure mud muddle billions of years ago, and were created by God as explained in the Bible.  If a person had average intelligence and a little common sense, I would think they could just look at nature and know the God of the Bible is real.

 

Once you take your last breath, it will be too late to ask Jesus for forgiveness.  Don't be deceived or blinded by Satan.  

Surely it's only my opinion, and i'm glad you're not taking offense from my harsh words.

Actually i very much support the Bible as a way to enlightenment, but while the New Testament , the word of Jesus, is something very modern, you should concede that the Old Testament is rather dark and foggy somehow, and needs to be interpreted with a grain of salt.

For me, it's quite interesting to compare the ancient tales of the Bible with other ancient tales, and find the points in common.

That's what i mean for having an "open mind".

Peace.

[Peter Denis]

33 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

...

The Bible is very clear on what happens to us when we die.  Everyone will kneel before Jesus, and we will all spend eternity in either Heaven or Hell.  To pretend otherwise is a very foolish decision.  

...

So the 75% of the world population that are not christian, like buddhists, muslims, Jews, hindi, etc that get their inspiration from other Holy Scriptures than the Bible, are all very foolish?

Not to mention the millions of people that lived before Jesus was born...

Those who claim that only their belief-system is the One and Only Eternal Truth, do not seem to grasp that such claims actually prove how little they actually understand of what they are talking about.

[yodsak]

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, yodsak said:

With all the respect for Hypatia, to say that she was killed by "Christians" is not correct.

Jesus Christ never condoned any murder, actually right the opposite.

[Surelynot]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

I believe that is projection on your part.  The Bible is very clear on what happens to us when we die.  Everyone will kneel before Jesus, and we will all spend eternity in either Heaven or Hell.  To pretend otherwise is a very foolish decision.  

 

For those who have actually read the Bible, Revelation is crystal clear about how events will unfold in the "end times."  We are living in the end times.  

 

Think for a moment we didn't evolve from some single cell in some obscure mud muddle billions of years ago, and were created by God as explained in the Bible.  If a person had average intelligence and a little common sense, I would think they could just look at nature and know the God of the Bible is real.

 

Once you take your last breath, it will be too late to ask Jesus for forgiveness.  Don't be deceived or blinded by Satan.  

This is a wind up surely. No one in their right mind believes this dross. The guy is having a tin barf.

[talahtnut]

The ultimate philosophy is Buddhism, clean and simple,

easy to understand.  As a student of Buddha you will

become a better human, not too sure if its worked on

me though.

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

The ultimate philosophy is Buddhism, clean and simple,

easy to understand.  As a student of Buddha you will

become a better human, not too sure if its worked on

me though.

Although not confirmed historically, i tend to believe that Jesus himself was a Buddhist scholar.

[bkk6060]

Christians believe everything happens due to Gods will.

Thus, Covid....

[talahtnut]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

Although not confirmed historically, i tend to believe that Jesus himself was a Buddhist scholar.

No reason why not, the news had 500 years to reach the

Middle East. Its a shame that as Christianity wandered

west, it became corrupt and scary. Hell and damnation

if you don't pay up.  

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

No reason why not, the news had 500 years to reach the

Middle East. Its a shame that as Christianity wandered

west, it became corrupt and scary. Hell and damnation

if you don't pay up.  

Actually there is a mystery about where Jesus spent his life from 12 to 30, except for a generic "He travelled to distant countries". Many scholars believe he went to study in Egypt and India, to reappear in the Middle East at the age of 30 as a famous prophet.

Although the words are different, i find a striking similarity between Buddha and Jesus philosophies.

Perhaps the main difference, is that while the Buddha focused mainly on self-realisation, Jesus focused on our relationship with the external world.

The "hell and damnation if you don't pay up" theory is obviously part of the "rule by fear" strategy of the powerful and corrupt.

 

[mauGR1]

This is a wonderful painting imho, by the Pre-Raffaellitic painter William Holman Hunt, depicting Jesus in the temple at the age of 12, when he left all the priests stunned with his wisdom.

[Sunmaster]

Did Jesus or the early Christians ever talk about reincarnation? Did he ever explicitly say that this life is the only one? 
If he traveled East to study with Buddhists or other Indian sages, it would be strange that he would distort this very fundamental teaching of Eastern philosophies.
In fact, this discrepancy in the teachings is a main factor why I could never take Christianity seriously. 

[Skeptic7]

2 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

This is a wonderful painting imho, by the Pre-Raffaellitic painter William Holman Hunt, depicting Jesus in the temple at the age of 12, when he left all the priests stunned with his wisdom.

A fine work of art, indeed.

 

So an artist, born 1794 years after the supposed Christ died, painted a picture from an old story. What is that intended to prove or convince anyone of...other than the artist's talent?

 

I've been to the Louvre and the Vatican and even Bethlehem. Such places have stunning artwork of all kinds of amazing feats, people and creatures. Saying they're impressive doesn't come close to a fitting description, but regardless how wonderful...doesn't make them real or true. 

[mauGR1]

11 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

A fine work of art, indeed.

 

So an artist, born 1794 years after the supposed Christ died, painted a picture from an old story. What is that intended to prove or convince anyone of...other than the artist's talent?

 

I've been to the Louvre and the Vatican and even Bethlehem. Such places have stunning artwork of all kinds of amazing feats, people and creatures. Saying they're impressive doesn't come close to a fitting description, but regardless how wonderful...doesn't make them real or true. 

Sorry, the painting is just a painting, i don't want to convince anyone of anything.

It was related to the life of Jesus. If you go on wiki and look for the painting, and you read the story of the painting, you might discover some interesting facts.

I keep on posting because i'm interested to hear interesting contributions from other posters, again, i don't want to prove anything.

[mauGR1]

37 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Did Jesus or the early Christians ever talk about reincarnation? Did he ever explicitly say that this life is the only one? 
If he traveled East to study with Buddhists or other Indian sages, it would be strange that he would distort this very fundamental teaching of Eastern philosophies.
In fact, this discrepancy in the teachings is a main factor why I could never take Christianity seriously. 

On the Apocriphal Gospels, which the "bible thumpers" obviously dismiss, there are mentions of reincarnations.

Johan the baptist and Jesus himself are regarded by some to be reincarnations of Eliah and Eliseus, both important prophets who are cited in the Bible.

Actually there is no distortion, heaven can be symbolic of higher states of existence, and hell is the opposite.

So, the theory of karma is alive and well in Christianism.

As i said many times, Jesus, among spiritual and religious circles in India, is regarded to be an avatar of Vishnu, or the power of love and preservation, same as Buddha.

[yodsak]

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

On the Apocriphal Gospels, which the "bible thumpers" obviously dismiss, there are mentions of reincarnations.

Johan the baptist and Jesus himself are regarded by some to be reincarnations of Eliah and Eliseus, both important prophets who are cited in the Bible.

So, the theory of karma is alive and well in Christianism.

As i said many times, Jesus, among spiritual and religious circles in India, is regarded to be an avatar of Vishnu, or the power of love and preservation, same as Buddha.

I'm more interested in Jesus's view in particular, not so much what others wrote later on the subject.

Did he ever mention reincarnation? And for that matter, was it him (not some later author of the bible) who professed the idea of a single physical life and then either eternal bliss in heaven or eternal damnation?

And if he did support that notion, why would he go against the teachings of his alleged master(s) in India?

 

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

Actually there is no distortion, heaven can be symbolic of higher states of existence, and hell is the opposite.

That may be so, but the problem of 1-life-only VS thousands of lifes is not reconcilable through this theory, I think. 
"Heaven" is to be close to the God Consciousness, "Hell" is forgetting that we have that connection. In that sense, heaven and hell are states of consciousness, before or after physical death. 

I mean, we're not talking about something trivial like the right position of your hands during prayer. This is a most fundamental tenet that has been either misunderstood or voluntarily omitted by Jesus. 
It is puzzling.

 

You say:
"As i said many times, Jesus, among spiritual and religious circles in India, is regarded to be an avatar of Vishnu, or the power of love and preservation, same as Buddha."

This is true. In fact, devotees of Paramahansa Yogananda (Kriya Yoga) are encouraged to pray to the lineage of Kriya gurus (Babaji, L. Mahasaya, Sri Yukteswar, P. Yogananda, as well as Krishna and Christ. Personally, I haven't done so yet, because I feel no connection or affinity to either of them.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Sunmaster

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I'm more interested in Jesus's view in particular, not so much what others wrote later on the subject.

Did he ever mention reincarnation? And for that matter, was it him (not some later author of the bible) who professed the idea of a single physical life and then either eternal bliss in heaven or eternal damnation?

And if he did support that notion, why would he go against the teachings of his alleged master(s) in India?

 

That may be so, but the problem of 1-life-only VS thousands of lifes is not reconcilable through this theory, I think. 
"Heaven" is to be close to the God Consciousness, "Hell" is forgetting that we have that connection. In that sense, heaven and hell are states of consciousness, before or after physical death. 

I mean, we're not talking about something trivial like the right position of your hands during prayer. This is a most fundamental tenet that has been either misunderstood or voluntarily omitted by Jesus. 
It is puzzling.

 

Well, don't forget that Jesus words were heard in full only by his disciples, and then written and interpreted subjectively with the language of the time, and then translated in other languages.

To be honest i have the feeling that the theory of reincarnation is difficult to fully understand while we are connected to a physical reality, even our vocabulary is obviously lacking when trying to describe spiritual realities.

Johan the baptist didn't know Jesus personally, yet, when they met, they recognized each other from a previous existence.

Personally i find the metaphors "Hell, Heaven, and Purgatory" sufficient to explain that one's future lives can depend on past deeds.

[Sunmaster]

I just came across this brilliant quote and thought it would be worth sharing. 

 

Swami Vivekananda said, “It is no 
doubt a good fortune to be born into a religion, but it 
is a misfortune to die in one.”

[talahtnut]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

I just came across this brilliant quote and thought it would be worth sharing. 

 

Swami Vivekananda said, “It is no 
doubt a good fortune to be born into a religion, but it 
is a misfortune to die in one.”

Another one for you:

"Religion is like a blind man looking in a black room for a black cat that isn't there, and finding it." ~ Oscar Wilde.

[mauGR1]

17 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Did he ever mention reincarnation? And for that matter, was it him (not some later author of the bible) who professed the idea of a single physical life and then either eternal bliss in heaven or eternal damnation?

Btw, there are plenty of Esoteric-Christian philosophers and writers who describe the re-incarnation theory, Max Heindel comes to mind.

His description of how in this very moment we are creating with our own thoughts, feelings and actions our future body is simple and wonderful.

One quote from him:

 

• "No one earth life, however rich in experience, could furnish the knowledge, so nature decrees that he must return to Earth, after intervals of rest, to take up his work where he dropped it,”

 

[soalbundy]

perhaps more importantly, does god believe in you

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

perhaps more importantly, does god believe in you

Surely yes, otherwise you would not even exist.

[soalbundy]

An Englishman, Tony Parsons (author of 'the open secret) had a revelation when walking through a park in London, here in his own words:-

  

“One day I was walking across a park in a suburb of London. I noticed as I walked that my mind was totally occupied with expectations about future events that might or might not happen. I seemed to choose to let go of these projections and simply be with my walking. I noticed that each footstep was totally unique in feel and pressure, and that it was there one moment and gone the next, never to be repeated in the same way again. 

As all of this was happening there was a transition from me watching my walking to simply the presence of walking. What happened then is simply beyond description. I can only inadequately say in words that total stillness and presence seemed to descend over everything. All and everything became timeless and I no longer existed. I vanished and there was no longer an experiencer. 

Oneness with all and everything was what happened. I can’t say I was at one because I had disappeared. I can only say that oneness with all and everything was what happened, and an overwhelming love filled every part. Together with this there came a total comprehension of the whole. All of this happened in a timeless flash, which seemed eternal. 

Contained within and directly following this happening occurred a revelation so magnificent and revolutionary in its nature that I had to sit down on the grass in order to take in its consequence. What I saw was simple and obvious in one way but completely untranslatable in another. It was as if I had been given an answer that had no question. I had been shown a secret that is open secret; and that all and everything that is known or unknown contains and reflects this open secret. Nature, people, birth and death, and our struggles, our fears and our desires are all contained within and reflect unconditional love. 

I felt I had been suddenly overtaken and everything took on a new sense. I looked at grass, trees, dogs and people, moving as before, but now I not only recognised their essence but I was their essence, as they were mine. It was in another way as if everything, including me, was enveloped in a deep and all-encompassing love, and in a strange way it seemed that what I saw was also somehow nothing special…it is the norm that is not usually perceived. 

Why me and why now? How could I have deserved to receive such a gift for nothing in return? I was certainly not pure in the biblical sense, or so my mind told me. I had not lived a disciplined life of meditation or of spiritual dedication of any kind. This illumination had occurred without any effort on my part! I had apparently chosen to watch my walking in a very easy and natural way, and then this treasure had emerged. 

I also came to recognise that this apparent gift had always been available and always would be. That was the most wonderful realisation of all! That utterly regardless of where, when or how I was, this presence was ready to emerge and embrace me. And this treasure was to be re-discovered not through arduous and seemingly significant practices and rituals. Not at all. This wonderful all-encompassing treasure was available within the essence of a footstep, in the sound of a tractor, in my feeling of boredom, in the sitting of a cat, in feelings of pain and rejection, on a mountaintop, or in the middle of Balham High Street. Anywhere and everywhere I am totally surrounded and embraced in stillness, unconditional love and oneness. 

Later on I began to wonder how this treasure could be retained. But I have again and again come to see that what I had sought to rediscover can never be achieved or contained. There is nothing I have to do, and the very belief that I have to do anything to deserve this treasure, interrupts its inherent quality. 

And this is again the paradox, for the divine instinct is continuously available, simply through the allowing of it. It is always at hand, in an eternal state of readiness…like the constant and faithful lover it is ready to respond to our every call.  

When I allow it, it is, when I avoid it, it is. 

It requires no effort, demands no standards and holds no preferences. 

Being timeless it sees no path to tread, no debt to pay. Because it acknowledges no right or wrong, neither does it recognise judgement or guilt. Its love is absolutely unconditional. It simply watches with clarity, compassion and delight as I move out for my return. 

It is my birthright. It is my home. It is already that which I am.” 

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

had a revelation

Thanks for posting that.

The revelation that I had was that God does exist, but not as in religious doctrine.

I find the divine not in footsteps but in nature, and especially in sunsets ( I'm not able to see sunrises from my bed ).

 

11 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

It was in another way as if everything, including me, was enveloped in a deep and all-encompassing love,

It's quite simple, that love is nirvana, heaven, paradise. That is what awaits us after we shuffle off this mortal life if we are open to it.

Blessed are those that can achieve that before death.

 

 

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, soalbundy said:

An Englishman, Tony Parsons (author of 'the open secret) had a revelation when walking through a park in London, here in his own words:-

  

“One day I was walking across a park in a suburb of London. I noticed as I walked that my mind was totally occupied with expectations about future events that might or might not happen. I seemed to choose to let go of these projections and simply be with my walking. I noticed that each footstep was totally unique in feel and pressure, and that it was there one moment and gone the next, never to be repeated in the same way again. 

<...>

Thanks for that. I had a similar experience...like Parsons says, it's impossible to put into words. Once it happens, there's no turning back, there's no ignoring it, there's no need for believing and no room for doubt.

[Peter Denis]

43 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Thanks for that. I had a similar experience...like Parsons says, it's impossible to put into words. Once it happens, there's no turning back, there's no ignoring it, there's no need for believing and no room for doubt.

Same same with me.  I was 23 then, now 40 years older... 

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

Same same with me.  I was 23 then, now 40 years older... 

I was 23 too! 
Now 45 ????

 

[soalbundy]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thanks for posting that.

The revelation that I had was that God does exist, but not as in religious doctrine.

I find the divine not in footsteps but in nature, and especially in sunsets ( I'm not able to see sunrises from my bed ).

 

It's quite simple, that love is nirvana, heaven, paradise. That is what awaits us after we shuffle off this mortal life if we are open to it.

Blessed are those that can achieve that before death.

 

 

But you must also realize that there is no mortal coil, no you, that is your own illusion as the absolute, physical death is the end of "i", the end of individuality, the true self has returned to oneness of everything and nothing, 'you' are no more. Parsons goes on to say:-

 

The Death of the Body/Mind 

            When we die it is merely the ending of a dream or the ending of a journey in time. When we die we are immediately awakened to unconditional love. When the body/mind is dropped there is no process of preparation or purification. There is no ‘after life’ or re-incarnation : these are illusions of the mind. The story is over. Not one jot could have been different. Our existence begins and ends with this dream that has been played out. We have always been the ocean and the waves, the darkness and the light, the nothing and the everything. 

[thaibeachlovers]

44 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

But you must also realize that there is no mortal coil, no you, that is your own illusion as the absolute, physical death is the end of "i", the end of individuality, the true self has returned to oneness of everything and nothing, 'you' are no more. Parsons goes on to say:-

 

The Death of the Body/Mind 

            When we die it is merely the ending of a dream or the ending of a journey in time. When we die we are immediately awakened to unconditional love. When the body/mind is dropped there is no process of preparation or purification. There is no ‘after life’ or re-incarnation : these are illusions of the mind. The story is over. Not one jot could have been different. Our existence begins and ends with this dream that has been played out. We have always been the ocean and the waves, the darkness and the light, the nothing and the everything. 

I said several pages ago that I believe that the spark that is "us" came from God and after this life ends it return to God. As to whether it retains a notion of "us" I can not say.