Do you believe in God and why

[Peter Denis]

10 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Werner Heisenberg, the father of Quantum Physics, once said: “The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will make you an atheist but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting".

Mother Nature is so complex, anything is possible.

Every human utterance can express only one aspect of the truth. In order to describe the whole truth one always needs the opposite pole as well. Thus every statement about the truth is a paradox. Unambiguous statements about reality do not exist in human language. An utterance that lacks the element of paradox is incomplete and reflects only a fragment of truth. Hence the downfall of all scientific efforts to produce statements that are completely clear and free of contradiction. People have been all too hasty in scorning the contradictory formulations of ancient teachings such as those of the Tao Te King or the alchemists. 
The turning point in science came with research into light. There were two contradictory theories about the nature of light rays: the wave theory and the particle theory. Each theory apparently excluded the other. If light consisted of waves it could not consist of particles, and vice versa. Either … or. In the meantime, however, it has been discovered that this either... or  was based on a false formulation of the question. Light is both waves and particles.

The fact that a phenomenon can simultaneously take two such apparently contradictory forms is something that is beyond normal human understanding, but nevertheless true. Thus these two aspects of the nature of light, the wave aspect and the particle aspect, can only be proved by using a different experimental framework in each case; for human beings can understand polarities only in sequence and not simultaneously. We should always keep in mind the dual nature of light when we are thinking about philosophical problems.

~ Thorwald Dethlefsen - The Challenge of Fate

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Peter Denis

[mauGR1]

38 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Absolutely. However, if the universe was born at the same instant in time ( big bang ) and that seems logical, it follows that the fuel of every sun will run out eventually, so all life on every planet will die.

I do not believe that another universe will not be born and another after that one for infinity, so the spark will continue forever.

 

To be honest, i think the "big bang" theory is childish.

I give it the same weight i would give to a dog trying to explain how a jet plane is built.

I have seen enough to know that we know a little bit more than nothing, and that everything is possible.

[geronimo]

Just dropped in to inform the OP that he has now surpassed Hardcore1_44's thread called "Why do bar girls cheat?"

 

Well done Ivor ...... you'll go down in history .....

[OmegaRacer]

3 hours ago, geronimo said:

Just dropped in to inform the OP that he has now surpassed Hardcore1_44's thread called "Why do bar girls cheat?"

 

Well done Ivor ...... you'll go down in history .....

Ok , but wouldn't it be more appropriate to congratulate those who have actually kept the thread going until now?

[nycjoe]

The Catholic Church recently said there is no purgatory or limbo, and evicted all the souls living there waiting to go to heaven, I want to know where they are and if they are OK. Asking for a friend.

 

[mauGR1]

"The Catholic Church recently said there is no purgatory or limbo, and evicted all the souls living there waiting to go to heaven, I want to know where they are and if they are OK. Asking for a friend."

(quote)

 

 

Fake news, my friend told me

Edited April 29, 2020 by mauGR1

[Elad]

12 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

The fact that a phenomenon can simultaneously take two such apparently contradictory forms is something that is beyond normal human understanding, but nevertheless true. Thus these two aspects of the nature of light, the wave aspect and the particle aspect, can only be proved by using a different experimental framework in each case; for human beings can understand polarities only in sequence and not simultaneously. We should always keep in mind the dual nature of light when we are thinking about philosophical problems.

The fact that we know about this phenomenon proves that its not beyond our understanding.

 

What's more impressive is that the wave-particle duality also applies to matter. Particles of matter such as electrons also behave like waves, and their wavelengths can actually be measured. The double slit experiment shows the wave like properties of matter, where a stream of electrons are fired through two slits and on to a projection screen behind the slits, the results show an interference pattern exactly the same as you would expect from light waves. See below:

 

        

 

This experiment was also run by firing just one electron at a time, and the results were the same interference pattern. The single electron passes through both slits at the same time showing its wave-like properties, but it hits the screen in just one place, showing its particle-like properties.

Scientists have also used atoms and even some molecules in this experiment and the results were the same.

 

On the fundamental level nothing is certain, and everything seems to built upon chance and probability. 

There doesn't seem to be anything supernatural going on but if you want to throw God into the mix, then all we can say is that" God must be constantly throwing dice".  ????    

[mauGR1]

13 minutes ago, Elad said:

This experiment was also run by firing just one electron at a time, and the results were the same interference pattern.

 

13 minutes ago, Elad said:

Scientists have also used atoms and even some molecules in this experiment and the results were the same.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Elad said:

There doesn't seem to be anything supernatural going on but if you want to throw God into the mix, then all we can say is that" God must be constantly throwing dice".  ????    

Interesting, but aren't these laws which are getting uncovered little by little, i wouldn't say a proof, but at least a clue of the existence of an intelligent design ?

Edited April 29, 2020 by mauGR1

[ivor bigun]

On 4/29/2020 at 3:57 PM, OmegaRacer said:

Ok , but wouldn't it be more appropriate to congratulate those who have actually kept the thread going until now?

Well of course i thank you all , but my part of this debate was to start it ,i never in my wildest dreams ever thought that it would go on so long ,however i did think that it would creat a very fiery debate ,as when  many people truly believe in something they will fight for it to the end .

[Sunmaster]

7 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

Well of course i thank you all , but my part of this debate was to start it ,i never in my wildest dreams ever thought that it would go on so long ,however i did think that it would creat a very fiery debate ,as when  many people truly believe in something they will fight for it to the end .

The debate was quite heated, especially in the beginning, but eventually the trolls got tired and a more mature conversation started. Apparently, it is possible to have different opinions without taking each others heads off. Isn't that marvelous? 
Or as the orange guy would say: "That was a tremendous thing what these guys did, tremendous." ????

[partington]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

The debate was quite heated, especially in the beginning, but eventually the trolls got tired and a more mature conversation started. Apparently, it is possible to have different opinions without taking each others heads off. Isn't that marvelous? 
Or as the orange guy would say: "That was a tremendous thing what these guys did, tremendous." ????

I think what happened was that  rational argument disappeared and was replaced by what seems to me to be mostly guff batted back and forth by two or three individuals, largely based on the theory that whatever pops into my head is probably true because it popped into my head.

 

If you are having a debate about whether dragons exist or not, and the debate devolves into an interminable discussion about whether the dragons' wings are really red or yellow, the original point in question has been completely lost, and there is little interest left for rationalists.

[Skeptic7]

3 minutes ago, partington said:

I think what happened was that  rational argument disappeared and was replaced by what seems to me to be mostly guff batted back and forth by two or three individuals, largely based on the theory that whatever pops into my head is probably true because it popped into my head.

 

If you are having a debate about whether dragons exist or not, and the debate devolves into an interminable discussion about whether the dragons' wings are really red or yellow, the original point in question has been completely lost, and there is little interest left for rationalists.

Expect you'll be labeled a "troll" by a member of the Dragon Clan soon! 

[partington]

"Maybe we don't see dragons because they are very very small, smaller than atoms"

 

"Or, or maybe we don't see them because they are very very big, and our world is like an atom inside one of their bodies!"

 

"Or perhaps there are parallel universes, and every so often a gap in time and space allows a dragon to slip his head through, which is why we don't see them very often!"

 

"Yes, and didn't Lao Tzu once say: the dragon that can be seen, is not a dragon at all"

 

 

On and on for countless pages....

Edited May 2, 2020 by partington

[Sunmaster]

23 minutes ago, partington said:

"Maybe we don't see dragons because they are very very small, smaller than atoms"

 

"Or, or maybe we don't see them because they are very very big, and our world is like an atom inside one of their bodies!"

 

"Or perhaps there are parallel universes, and every so often a gap in time and space allows a dragon to slip his head through, which is why we don't see them very often!"

 

"Yes, and didn't Lao Tzu once say: the dragon that can be seen, is not a dragon at all"

 

 

On and on for countless pages....

555 You and Skeptic are welcome to put us poor fools back on the rational track if you like. We're not scared of confrontation, and we surely won't call you a troll for doing that.

Take Skeptic for example, he started as a troll insulting everyone, but he ended up being polite (enough), ...it took a few warnings from the mods though. ????

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Sunmaster

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

but he ended up being polite

Yes, but that happened only after the corona virus thing.

When the ship sinks, everybody becomes a believer ????

[david2923]

God did not create man, man created god

[izod10]

We all came from something,we all go back to that something        If you believe in nothing,you fall for anything     film edit

[david2923]

I believe in Joe Pessi.????

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, david2923 said:

God did not create man, man created god

Yes, man is better than God, sure you kiddin' me.

[garrya]

2 hours ago, david2923 said:

God did not create man, man created god

Wow. This is the perfect way to put it.

????

[garrya]

2 hours ago, izod10 said:

We all came from something,we all go back to that something        If you believe in nothing,you fall for anything     film edit

But why do you choose to believe in something made up? It doesn't make any sense.

[garrya]

2 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Yes, man is better than God, sure you kiddin' me.

Let God run a 10k with me in the morning.

I'm ready to compete. Guess your buddy won't turn up.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, garrya said:

Wow. This is the perfect way to put it.

????

yeah, pure genius

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, garrya said:

Let God run a 10k with me in the morning.

I'm ready to compete. Guess your buddy won't turn up.

Sure you run 10k in the morning, and i climb the Nanga Parbat in the afternoon

[Peter Denis]

12 hours ago, david2923 said:

God did not create man, man created god

Nice paradox, but imo it works both ways.

The painter did not create the painting, the painting made him a painter.  In other words there can be neither painting without painter or vice versa.  They are one (or One).

Kind of a paraphrase of:

> The chicken did not create the egg, the egg created the chicken...

 

[thaibeachlovers]

Only 6 pages to make it to 500. Keep it up guys. Anyone know what is the longest thread on TVF?

[giddyup]

14 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Yes, but that happened only after the corona virus thing.

When the ship sinks, everybody becomes a believer ????

So there's been a mass conversion to religion since the pandemic? I must have missed the memo.

[garrya]

11 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Sure you run 10k in the morning, and i climb the Nanga Parbat in the afternoon

I do run 10k most mornings. Yeah, typical. You believe in a nonsensical bloke sitting on clouds but won't believe a human being whom you can see what he is doing. Typical intelligence from 2000 years ago. 

[garrya]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Only 6 pages to make it to 500. Keep it up guys. Anyone know what is the longest thread on TVF?

God knows!

[Relocated]

I believe god made us but his mistake was to let men have sex at their whim. He should have made it as once every 18 months. Better redo it.