Do you believe in God and why

[Sunmaster]

14 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

My BS?

 

Maybe that will help you a little.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

 

I am out of here.

Sorry for the misunderstanding...BS is short for Belief System. I have no intention nor need to insult people's beliefs.

The placebo effect is accountable for some of the cases, but not for all the case studies. I'd like to remind you they were studied and peer reviewed by scientists, not just some pot smoking, kumbaya singing hippies. 

[pineapple01]

Bet hes got one hell of a Memory Bank to remember all his fans names.

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Well...as far as you know....is evidently not very far at all.

 

The topic of prayer is a big topic. There are different ways to pray and they are not all equal. 

As to the effectiveness of a focused mind, you may want to read this article:
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/muom-fss032917.php
 

You will find stuff like this:
Following up on a 2016 study on group meditation that found a 21.2% reduction in the national homicide rate during the period 2007-2010, a new study focusing on 206 large US urban areas found an even greater decrease of 28.4% in the murder rate. In both studies, the reductions during the period 2007-2010 were in comparison to the baseline period 2002-2006.

[...]
"This study and 17 other peer-reviewed studies suggest that one's individual consciousness is directly connected to an underlying, universal field of consciousness, and that by collectively enlivening that universal field through the Transcendental Meditation technique, such a group can have a positive effect on the quality of life in society," added coauthor Dr. Michael Dillbeck.

And we should also mention the proven (by science!) benefits prayer has on those who pray. 
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/religion/power-prayer-what-happens-your-brain-when-you-pray-n273956

I could go on, but I have a feeling you prefer the comfort of your old beliefs than learn new scientific facts that could shake up your BS.

And placebo work to! Proven science with and without knownledge it works, so why should not prayer, kognetiv thinking, positiv thinking work as well, even proved science. 
 

 

 

[Sunmaster]

11 minutes ago, Tagged said:

And placebo work to! Proven science with and without knownledge it works, so why should not prayer, kognetiv thinking, positiv thinking work as well, even proved science. 
 

 

 

Did you even read the first article?
How can you attribute the decrease in violent crimes in New York to a placebo effect??
Is it all a big conspiracy? ???? 

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Sunmaster

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Sorry for the misunderstanding...BS is short for Belief System. I have no intention nor need to insult people's beliefs.

Thanks for the information.

But in a way it seems BS and BS are same same, not much different. ???? 

[teatime101]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

How can you attribute the decrease in violent crimes in New York to a placebo effect??

Yet you attribute a change in the behaviour of large numbers of random people on the mass meditation of a totally unrelated group? 

 

If you want to claim some causality here you need to provide evidence. If you're going to rely on evidence you have to accept the standard of the scientific method to validate it, otherwise you're just making up your own rules. The scientific method is empirically based, so any claims that don't follow rigorous data and process are no better than belief or faith.

Edited May 26, 2020 by teatime101

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Did you even read the first article?
How can you attribute the decrease in violent crimes in New York to a placebo effect??
Is it all a big conspiracy? ???? 

 

Sorry, murder I jumped, but prayers I replied to, so if that was unclear, apoligize. 

 

Every little thing you do for yourselves, or every positive attention you get, do something with you and your brain. We are dopamin controlled by nature. Simple as that. 

 

 

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, teatime101 said:

Yet you attribute a change in the behaviour of large numbers of random people on the mass meditation of a totally unrelated group? 

 

If you want to claim some causality here you need to provide evidence. If you're going to rely on evidence you have to accept the standard of the scientific method to validate it, otherwise you're just making up your own rules. The scientific method is empirically based, so any claims that don't follow rigorous data and process are no better than belief or faith.

I'm just reporting the findings of these researches. It takes all but 2 minutes to google the topic and you can find the research papers quite easily.

https://research.miu.edu/maharishi-effect/summary-of-13-published-studies
The results for this reduced sample were similar to the whole sample; a 22% decrease in crime in 1% cities in 1973 compared to an increase by 2% in control cities (p<.005), and a reduction in crime rate trend in the 1% cities by 89% compared to an increased by 53% in controls (p<.05). In addition, a significant correlation was found between of percentage TM participation in each city in 1972 and crime rate change in 1973 (r=.53, p<.001) and change in slope (r=.41, p.01). This study demonstrated that the Maharishi Effect has immediate effect on crime as well as a long-term effect that persisted over six years, which was independent of the influences of major demographic variables known to affect crime.

https://tmhome.com/benefits/study-maharishi-effect-group-meditation-crime-rate/

http://www.worldpeacegroup.org/washington_crime_study.html

There are a lot more of course, but I don't have the time to sieve through all that for you.

Once you've read these articles and papers, tell me again I'm making up my own rules.

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, Tagged said:

Sorry, murder I jumped, but prayers I replied to, so if that was unclear, apoligize. 

 

Every little thing you do for yourselves, or every positive attention you get, do something with you and your brain. We are dopamin controlled by nature. Simple as that. 

 

 

Of course you can see a material confirmation in everything you do. Hormones do affect our mood and health, that is not being disputed. What is being disputed is the claim that the brain is the source and the seat of consciousness. 
The fact that a damaged brain impairs consciousness, or that a dead brain produces no consciousness at all, doesn't necessarily imply that consciousness is generated by the brain. It merely means that the brain translates consciousness just like a computer makes sense of the data in the cloud. The cloud is still intact, even when your computer is damaged. 
Since the consciousness-in-the-brain theory has never been scientifically proven, it becomes a matter of belief, just like the consciousness-through-the-brain theory. 

[StreetCowboy]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Of course you can see a material confirmation in everything you do. Hormones do affect our mood and health, that is not being disputed. What is being disputed is the claim that the brain is the source and the seat of consciousness. 
The fact that a damaged brain impairs consciousness, or that a dead brain produces no consciousness at all, doesn't necessarily imply that consciousness is generated by the brain. It merely means that the brain translates consciousness just like a computer makes sense of the data in the cloud. The cloud is still intact, even when your computer is damaged. 
Since the consciousness-in-the-brain theory has never been scientifically proven, it becomes a matter of belief, just like the consciousness-through-the-brain theory. 

Occam's razor might divide the two theories.

Any theory that relies on observable facts and something else has to be looked at askance in comparison to a theory that explains the observable facts while relying upon no other.

[mauGR1]

16 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Occam's razor might divide the two theories.

Any theory that relies on observable facts and something else has to be looked at askance in comparison to a theory that explains the observable facts while relying upon no other.

Perhaps one day you'll find that "observable facts" are a very tiny fraction of reality.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/25/2020 at 1:45 AM, mauGR1 said:

"Science" has officially become the new religion.

Warning: It makes you dumb, but you're not aware of it, you're probably feeling even proud of it.

Stay home, stay safe and watch tv

It's ironic that people claim to think that faith in "God" is pointless, when they have "faith" that science knows everything, when it's obvious that science does NOT know everything.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

Occam's razor might divide the two theories.

Any theory that relies on observable facts and something else has to be looked at askance in comparison to a theory that explains the observable facts while relying upon no other.

What about unobservable facts?

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's ironic that people claim to think that faith in "God" is pointless, when they have "faith" that science knows everything, when it's obvious that science does NOT know everything.

Yep, weak minds, they criticise religion because it's fashion, then they get trapped into other dogmas.

Nothing new under the sun.

[Tagged]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's ironic that people claim to think that faith in "God" is pointless, when they have "faith" that science knows everything, when it's obvious that science does NOT know everything.

Have faith science will continue to discover truth and prove it, but religion, have it all figured out 1000´nds years ago! 

 

Quite remarkable it is! 

 

Im still saying, can not dismiss a creator, but a god, or gods, would be just designers and learned by experience, and I believe we will one day do the same somewhere in the universe. Bring our dna´s to other planets where life could be possible, and it might as well happend to planet earth. Dna carry memories, so what you call consciousness, could also be from dna memory. Remember our dna  is shared in various percentage with everything on this planet. We all have evolved from same genepool. 

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, Tagged said:

but religion, have it all figured out 1000´nds years ago! 

Wrong. There is an Islamic university in Riyadh where they decide what was written long ago means. I believe Christians have meetings now and then to decide what is included or excluded.

[Peter Denis]

10 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Have faith science will continue to discover truth and prove it, but religion, have it all figured out 1000´nds years ago!

...

Science is not truth.  Science only provides hypotheses about how the world works based on observation. 

A real scientist will not dismiss an alternative hypothesis when it is based on plausible arguments (e.g. the brain just being a transmitter and not the seat of consciousness).

Take heed of those 'scientists' that dismiss a priori hypotheses that do not fit their belief system.  The worst ones being those that do not even want to hear or look at evidence that doesn't support their preconceptions.   

[Tagged]

15 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Science is not truth.  Science only provides hypotheses about how the world works based on observation. 

A real scientist will not dismiss an alternative hypothesis when it is based on plausible arguments (e.g. the brain just being a transmitter and not the seat of consciousness).

Take heed of those 'scientists' that dismiss a priori hypotheses that do not fit their belief system.  The worst ones being those that do not even want to hear or look at evidence that doesn't support their preconceptions.   

Again science and scientists are just people, as everyone else, good and bad scientists. 

 

The nature do also have a Alive concious system called fungus. Humans have sense and instincts as well, together with our memory sticks in our dna

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Science is not truth.  Science only provides hypotheses about how the world works based on observation. 

A real scientist will not dismiss an alternative hypothesis when it is based on plausible arguments (e.g. the brain just being a transmitter and not the seat of consciousness).

Take heed of those 'scientists' that dismiss a priori hypotheses that do not fit their belief system.  The worst ones being those that do not even want to hear or look at evidence that doesn't support their preconceptions.   

I think that science, intended as the search for a rational explanation of the reality which surrounds us, is one of the highest faculties of humans.

When science becomes a series of dogmas, based on our limited physical senses, it becomes an "ignorant science".

Actually, focusing our knowledge on a mere physical reality, can be a heavy damage to our inner beings; it makes humans dumb and arrogant without reason.

Every truth is relative or temporary, but i believe that there must be an ultimate, eternal truth.

Some people call it "God", other people call it "Brahman", but the name or the label is not really important.

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

I think that science, intended as the search for a rational explanation of the reality which surrounds us, is one of the highest faculties of humans.

When science becomes a series of dogmas, based on our limited physical senses, it becomes an "ignorant science".

Actually, focusing our knowledge on a mere physical reality, can be a heavy damage to our inner beings; it makes humans dumb and arrogant without reason.

Every truth is relative or temporary, but i believe that there must be an ultimate, eternal truth.

Some people call it "God", other people call it "Brahman", but the name or the label is not really important.

The most remarkable with humans, is when they believe somehting, be it science, religion, politics, or being spirutual, they get fueled by it, and even fueled more if they can express it frely, and as well for those who have the gift to preach being fuled by the power preaching, teaching and control their listeners. I would say this is the layers of humanity, and how we got to the point where we are today.  For every success one have, there will be an other groups who will oppose, hate, and even trying to stop them. Every human have this thing when we get fixated on somehting we are willing to fa far beyond any sense, and even kill for it under the right circomstanses. Not only few people will follow doing crime against humanity, but most will do. That is in fact based on history and science to back it up.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Tagged said:

The most remarkable with humans, is when they believe somehting, be it science, religion, politics, or being spirutual, they get fueled by it, and even fueled more if they can express it frely, and as well for those who have the gift to preach being fuled by the power preaching, teaching and control their listeners. I would say this is the layers of humanity, and how we got to the point where we are today.  For every success one have, there will be an other groups who will oppose, hate, and even trying to stop them. Every human have this thing when we get fixated on somehting we are willing to fa far beyond any sense, and even kill for it under the right circomstanses. Not only few people will follow doing crime against humanity, but most will do. That is in fact based on history and science to back it up.

Today we appear to think in a similar way, but i am not surprised.

We have had some misunderstanding in the past months, but i completely agree with your post.

In fact i mostly dislike fanatics, and i think everybody should be free and happy to tell their 'experience of reality", so that hearing other people experiences, and comparing them to our experience, we may get closer to the truth.

[teatime101]

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Science is not truth.  Science only provides hypotheses about how the world works based on observation.

Science is a process. Once a hypothesis has been tested, that may result in a theory, or explanation, of 'how the world works'.

 

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Take heed of those 'scientists' that dismiss a priori hypotheses that do not fit their belief system.

A hypothesis has no validity until it is tested, and what any scientist believes has no bearing on how science facts are developed. Without consensus there are no facts in science. If the consensus view changes, so does the fact. Individuals are only significant because their peers agree with them.

Edited May 27, 2020 by teatime101

[Tagged]

35 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Today we appear to think in a similar way, but i am not surprised.

We have had some misunderstanding in the past months, but i completely agree with your post.

In fact i mostly dislike fanatics, and i think everybody should be free and happy to tell their 'experience of reality", so that hearing other people experiences, and comparing them to our experience, we may get closer to the truth.

We have agreed in the past, and in most cases we do feel the same, have read the same, understood the same, but, it is how we express our self (my language barrier) and maybe I have given up the ride on the more spiritual travel, and realized for my self, Nature is great, im part of it, and thats it, and I feel I travel more freely know, falling to rest on feeling part of the nature, and no longer trying to undermine or supress my nature. I do not need much in life, except my freedom to choose. As long I have freedom to choose, I can stay put one place with no desire for anything else. Of course basic needs is fullfied, I can thrive with no problem. Well, of course basic needs today is involving quite different what we learned to be basic needs as safety, fresh food, clean water, economic wealth to take care of the people around you, And internet to mention some few things. This corona limitations we now have experienced, opend my eyes up for a different lifestyle than I have been doing lately, but not as far from I have lived before from time to time, and it works very well for me. No pressure from outside except finding your way with the limitations given today, and it have given me inner peace. 

 

Anyway, just found Carlton Pearson, who is quite an interesting christioan minister who wrote this book "God Is Not a Christian, Nor a Jew, Muslim, Hindu...: God Dwells with Us, in Us, Around Us, as Us"

 

Up for next reading 

 

 

 

"People who believe in hell create it for themselves and others. People who believe in devils and demons become that in consciousness, and they act it out." Pearson said he firmly believes, as he told his congregation one recent Sunday, "We may go through hell, but nobody goes to hell."

Edited May 27, 2020 by Tagged

[bert bloggs]

Reading the posts regarding science and religion ,i do realize that much of science,seems a bit flawed ,you just have to look at all the different answers scientists have come up regarding Corona , but religion seems to be made up as they go along,and its just a matter of my gods better than your god .

[Tagged]

3 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

Reading the posts regarding science and religion ,i do realize that much of science,seems a bit flawed ,you just have to look at all the different answers scientists have come up regarding Corona , but religion seems to be made up as they go along,and its just a matter of my gods better than your god .

What different answers have they given? It is hard to know what you aiming for? How it started? How to stop it? Or ? I think they know the same about the virus, but they as everyone else, have a different approach to the problem and view different solutions based on their own experience and what they know, and where they are in life. I mean, if you care about your parents, or grandparents who is at risk, you choose a different path than someone do not. 

 

Same with religion, every preacher experience their truth different and will therefor teach different the same text based on their colours and experience, and I believe 50% do it from their own ego and greed as hunger for power. 

[bert bloggs]

4 minutes ago, Tagged said:

What different answers have they given? It is hard to know what you aiming for? How it started? How to stop it? Or ? I think they know the same about the virus, but they as everyone else, have a different approach to the problem and view different solutions based on their own experience and what they know, and where they are in life. I mean, if you care about your parents, or grandparents who is at risk, you choose a different path than someone do not. 

 

Same with religion, every preacher experience their truth different and will therefor teach different the same text based on their colours and experience, and I believe 50% do it from their own ego and greed as hunger for power. 

To be honest ,i think religion has always been about power ,and making money , the " confessional" for instance ,gave the priests the knowledge of what was going on ,that way they could be in command of the local population,and the collection was a way of making money .

as for the "experts" so many have different ideas ,although on the whole i do believe most of science ,but not religion .that said i wish i did believe ,must be lovely to think when you die you get to see your parents etc ,mind you dont know about the ex wives.

[Tagged]

16 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

To be honest ,i think religion has always been about power ,and making money , the " confessional" for instance ,gave the priests the knowledge of what was going on ,that way they could be in command of the local population,and the collection was a way of making money .

as for the "experts" so many have different ideas ,although on the whole i do believe most of science ,but not religion .that said i wish i did believe ,must be lovely to think when you die you get to see your parents etc ,mind you dont know about the ex wives.

Religion is alot more than just money, but leaders using different tools to lead their people, and different alfa´s finding different ways to get i positions, and you have to dedicated onces, who truly believe in their mission 110% and are willing to go the extra mile to succeed. Im talking about those who often have to much conscious, who often sacrifice themselves to something higher than themselves, who is often used as tools, by the Alfa´s. Humans have a complexed hiararchy but it is necessery for the good and the bad. If it wasnt religion, it would have been something else, and we can not only cultivate rock stars do we? It have to be something else, and just think about it if we did use same amount of energy on cultivationg the nature instead for the good. Respect and live with the nature, because that is the closest to good you can be. 

[ivor bigun]

i cant believe that nobody has come on and argued that there is no God since last wed ,i mean you have only posted 542 pages on the subject,dont let it die now lads ,i really enjoy reading your views.

[fredwiggy]

5 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

i cant believe that nobody has come on and argued that there is no God since last wed ,i mean you have only posted 542 pages on the subject,dont let it die now lads ,i really enjoy reading your views.

They're all converted now.

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, ivor bigun said:

i cant believe that nobody has come on and argued that there is no God since last wed ,i mean you have only posted 542 pages on the subject,dont let it die now lads ,i really enjoy reading your views.

The big Q is

 

How can you state there is no god, or how can you state there is a god? 
 

Nobody walking on this earth of flesh and blood do know, but they believe one or the other! Thats a fact! ????