Do you believe in God and why

[yodsak]

 

On 5/22/2020 at 8:37 AM, fredwiggy said:

Yes, every species of mammal, fish, birds, insects, reptiles, bacteria, plants,  humans and suns, planets,and moons all came from a cosmic explosion. From the intricacies of the brain and thoughts, to an insects wing,  that everything requires oxygen, food and water, all of which just happened to end up on this planet in the right amounts. The sun just happens to be just the right distance from the earth to supply heat and sunshine for plant growth. All from an explosion of matter which didn't exist, because if it did, where did it come from? No, there was a creator. Our God.

[fredwiggy]

4 hours ago, yodsak said:

 

Who created the stars? Another theory,  another wrong.

[yodsak]

[fredwiggy]

Just now, yodsak said:

Matter doesn't come from nothing. It was created. by God

[RangerP703]

This is a tough question to answer.

Religion was totally ingrained in me from the time I was an infant. I was taken to church every week of my life growing up.

My grandfather was a very well known minister in this state and much of the South.

I was taught that the most important thing was to accept Jesus Christ as your savior, get baptized and live a good Christian life.

If you did, you would go to Heaven and be in paradise for eternity.

If you didn’t, or if you later rejected God and the church’s teachings, then you were doomed to go to Hell instead.

Now, I will say that, luckily, my church did not empathize Hell as so many others do.

The ministers I grew up around didn’t dwell on God’s punishment much at all, but instead talked about his love and desire for us to be good Christians and obey the teachings of Jesus.

The most important thing was to believe, repent and be saved. You had to have complete faith.

If you did not believe in God, and that the only way to salvation was through Jesus, then you were doomed to an eternity in Hell instead of the good place.

And it was the saddest fate for those who disbelieved. All the church people felt immense sorrow for those who refused to believe and follow the Lord.

Now, being the sort of kid I was, a lot didn’t make sense to me. I kept asking them questions about stuff like what happened to people who were not Christians.

What if they had been raised Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim or another religion but were still good people who were kind, cared about others and lived a righteous, moral life? Surely they weren’t damned in that case?

But I was told that they were going to Hell regardless of how good they were, simply because the only way to get to Heaven was to accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior and ask for forgiveness of all your sins.

Ok, so then I argued what if a person had never heard of Jesus or understood what Christianity was?

Maybe they lived on a remote, undiscovered island and knew nothing of the outside world?

Would they have to go to Hell for not knowing?

That seemed completely unfair and wrong for God to punish them for something that was not their fault.

The church people would smile and tell me how, in that case, they would be shown the truth when they died and offered a chance to accept Jesus then.

They also told me very young children were not sent to Hell.

There is an age of accountability which in my religion was accepted to be when a child reached six or seven years of age.

After this point, they are held responsible for their sins.

Apparently there are seven year old kids in Hell.

It was also important to be baptized, because although you wouldn’t be sent to Hell just because you hadn’t been, it definitely helped you be in God’s favor and have his approval.

My Sunday school teachers started encouraging me to get baptized when I was seven. They’d tell me how they had been praying so hard that I would accept Jesus and turn over my life to him.

The problem was, in my particular Christian denomination, the child had to be the one to decide to make a public profession of faith, walk down to the alter in front of everyone, kneel, and then confess to the minister they were a sinner, had an awakening and had accepted Jesus in their heart.

Then they would ask to be baptized. This was also done with the entire congregation as witnesses at the front of the church in the baptismal pool.

I felt a lot of pressure to get baptized, especially as I turned eight and then nine years old. And the pressure is part of the reason why I didn’t want to.

I resented everyone trying to push me into it. Also, to be honest, I was incredibly nervous at the thought of having to walk to the alter by myself in front of everyone.

I was quite shy as a child. And I didn’t want to do something just because I was expected to do it either.

A bit off the subject for a moment, but I wanted to write that I converted to another denomination when I became an adult.

I was raised a Baptist and decided to convert to the Episcopal Church.

I had recently found my birth family and they are Catholic, so I seriously considered becoming Catholic too. I even went to the local Catholic Church and met with the Monsignor to discuss it.

But I just didn’t think I could follow all the rules and also it really offended me that among the mortal sins was if a wife refused sex with her husband. I don’t mean forever either. I’m talking about one time.

Really??

God will send you to Hell for telling your husband “no, not tonight.”

Anyway, at the Episcopal Church I was finally was baptized in the priest’s office with only one witness. She was there because she had to sign the baptismal certificate.

It was a much better experience (in my opinion) than being dunked backwards into a pool of water and completely immersed.

He sprinkled holy water on the top of my head and my forehead and then anointed me with a special holy oil that he’d brought back from Jerusalem years ago.

After this, I had to take confirmation classes and participate in the ceremony where I recited my vows, and had the bishop place his hands on me and bless me while I received the sacramental rite during a special church service.

I really enjoyed my new church. I liked the ritual involved and the way the services were conducted.

I liked that they gave you the option of doing confession too.

I made a list of every sin I could think of that I had committed in my life and went to confession!

Unfortunately, several years later, the priest was discovered to have embezzled over a million dollars from the church.

It also came out that he had sexually harassed at least eight different women and girls who were members of the congregation, and had several extramarital affairs as well.

I loved him and looked up to him so much. He was like an idealized father figure to me, so naturally I was devastated by this news.

Back to my story now.

My depression and problems started when I was around eight.

I couldn’t understand why I was so sad all the time. I lost interest in everything, like my friends, my activities (ballet, music, etc.), school and church.

I began to withdraw and isolate myself.

I turned down any invitations from friends to do stuff together, go to parties, sleep over and everything else.

I prayed so hard to God to please help me and make me better. I remember lying in bed almost every night, crying and pleading with him to end the pain and praying for hours.

When nothing changed I thought I must be such a bad person that I wasn’t even worthy of forgiveness and I was being punished for that reason.

I clung to my faith however, even as it became clear he was not going to answer my prayers.

When I was 10 I started thinking about suicide. Then I found out you got sent directly to Hell for that!

By age 12 it felt like I was living in a nightmare every second I was awake. I was miserable beyond words.

Finally when I turned 13 my parents agreed to two important requests I had.

To take me to a psychiatrist and to not make me go to church anymore.

So, I was taught since infancy to believe in God and Heaven.

Although the church in which I was raised didn’t dwell on it, they also taught that if you were not “saved” then you were going to Hell. Forever and ever. And your faith was a huge factor as well.

Because even if you had accepted Jesus, been baptized and attended church, if you subsequently changed your mind, lost your faith and belief and turned your back on God and the church, you were no longer a Christian and therefore were damned.

I spent a lot of time struggling with my belief and my faith. I wanted to believe in God but I was having more and more difficulty with it.

Sometimes I got angry at him because it felt like he didn’t care what happened to his children.

But he still demanded that they believe and be obedient and worship him without doubt.

Then eventually I reached the point of actively questioning his existence.

Was there really a God?

If so, did he decide to leave this universe and go elsewhere eons ago?

Maybe he was so dissatisfied with humans that he wanted to create another life form in a different universe altogether.

Or maybe he had retired and couldn’t be bothered with our problems or our planet now.

Perhaps God was even secretly a sadist who enjoyed punishing us and watching our pain.

He could have created us just for that reason and to play with and experiment on.

On Christmas Eve two years ago I finally lost my faith completely. I no longer believed in God. I was sad about it and sort of grieved for a while.

But, to my amazement I regained my belief last Christmas.

I started to pray and this time it felt as though he was listening. Nothing happened but I felt like I was in his presence or something like that.

I have had terrible things done to me in my life by other people. Both as a child and an adult.

Things which scarred my psyche and twisted my mind to an extent.

Things which hurt me so badly that I could never bring myself to forgive those people.

I felt very angry with them and thought they deserved to pay for their actions.

To me, forgiving them was like saying what they did was ok and no big deal when it had, in fact, ruined my life, warped my mind and affected my entire personality.

Anyway, I was sitting by myself in the dark with only the tree lights on and I suddenly felt like I could forgive everyone who had harmed and abused me.

It was an amazing feeling of relief and joy. It was like the weight of my anger and resentment, which had been crushing me, had suddenly been lifted and the burden was gone.

I was so thankful and happy that I cried a little bit.

From happiness! That has never happened before. I felt free.

Unfortunately since then I have had times where I’ve slid right back into holding grudges.

I have also been struggling with whether or not I believe in God. I want to believe but I have difficulty most days.

So I can’t say whether I really believe or not! I’m sorry I can’t give a better answer.

[yodsak]

8 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Matter doesn't come from nothing. It was created. by God

The universe did not come from nothing. It started as a singularity, something infinitesimally small, subatomic.   

[fredwiggy]

2 minutes ago, yodsak said:

The universe did not come from nothing. It started as a singularity, something infinitesimally small, subatomic.   

And that was created by God

[fredwiggy]

7 minutes ago, RangerP703 said:

This is a tough question to answer.

Religion was totally ingrained in me from the time I was an infant. I was taken to church every week of my life growing up.

My grandfather was a very well known minister in this state and much of the South.

I was taught that the most important thing was to accept Jesus Christ as your savior, get baptized and live a good Christian life.

If you did, you would go to Heaven and be in paradise for eternity.

If you didn’t, or if you later rejected God and the church’s teachings, then you were doomed to go to Hell instead.

Now, I will say that, luckily, my church did not empathize Hell as so many others do.

The ministers I grew up around didn’t dwell on God’s punishment much at all, but instead talked about his love and desire for us to be good Christians and obey the teachings of Jesus.

The most important thing was to believe, repent and be saved. You had to have complete faith.

If you did not believe in God, and that the only way to salvation was through Jesus, then you were doomed to an eternity in Hell instead of the good place.

And it was the saddest fate for those who disbelieved. All the church people felt immense sorrow for those who refused to believe and follow the Lord.

Now, being the sort of kid I was, a lot didn’t make sense to me. I kept asking them questions about stuff like what happened to people who were not Christians.

What if they had been raised Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim or another religion but were still good people who were kind, cared about others and lived a righteous, moral life? Surely they weren’t damned in that case?

But I was told that they were going to Hell regardless of how good they were, simply because the only way to get to Heaven was to accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior and ask for forgiveness of all your sins.

Ok, so then I argued what if a person had never heard of Jesus or understood what Christianity was?

Maybe they lived on a remote, undiscovered island and knew nothing of the outside world?

Would they have to go to Hell for not knowing?

That seemed completely unfair and wrong for God to punish them for something that was not their fault.

The church people would smile and tell me how, in that case, they would be shown the truth when they died and offered a chance to accept Jesus then.

They also told me very young children were not sent to Hell.

There is an age of accountability which in my religion was accepted to be when a child reached six or seven years of age.

After this point, they are held responsible for their sins.

Apparently there are seven year old kids in Hell.

It was also important to be baptized, because although you wouldn’t be sent to Hell just because you hadn’t been, it definitely helped you be in God’s favor and have his approval.

My Sunday school teachers started encouraging me to get baptized when I was seven. They’d tell me how they had been praying so hard that I would accept Jesus and turn over my life to him.

The problem was, in my particular Christian denomination, the child had to be the one to decide to make a public profession of faith, walk down to the alter in front of everyone, kneel, and then confess to the minister they were a sinner, had an awakening and had accepted Jesus in their heart.

Then they would ask to be baptized. This was also done with the entire congregation as witnesses at the front of the church in the baptismal pool.

I felt a lot of pressure to get baptized, especially as I turned eight and then nine years old. And the pressure is part of the reason why I didn’t want to.

I resented everyone trying to push me into it. Also, to be honest, I was incredibly nervous at the thought of having to walk to the alter by myself in front of everyone.

I was quite shy as a child. And I didn’t want to do something just because I was expected to do it either.

A bit off the subject for a moment, but I wanted to write that I converted to another denomination when I became an adult.

I was raised a Baptist and decided to convert to the Episcopal Church.

I had recently found my birth family and they are Catholic, so I seriously considered becoming Catholic too. I even went to the local Catholic Church and met with the Monsignor to discuss it.

But I just didn’t think I could follow all the rules and also it really offended me that among the mortal sins was if a wife refused sex with her husband. I don’t mean forever either. I’m talking about one time.

Really??

God will send you to Hell for telling your husband “no, not tonight.”

Anyway, at the Episcopal Church I was finally was baptized in the priest’s office with only one witness. She was there because she had to sign the baptismal certificate.

It was a much better experience (in my opinion) than being dunked backwards into a pool of water and completely immersed.

He sprinkled holy water on the top of my head and my forehead and then anointed me with a special holy oil that he’d brought back from Jerusalem years ago.

After this, I had to take confirmation classes and participate in the ceremony where I recited my vows, and had the bishop place his hands on me and bless me while I received the sacramental rite during a special church service.

I really enjoyed my new church. I liked the ritual involved and the way the services were conducted.

I liked that they gave you the option of doing confession too.

I made a list of every sin I could think of that I had committed in my life and went to confession!

Unfortunately, several years later, the priest was discovered to have embezzled over a million dollars from the church.

It also came out that he had sexually harassed at least eight different women and girls who were members of the congregation, and had several extramarital affairs as well.

I loved him and looked up to him so much. He was like an idealized father figure to me, so naturally I was devastated by this news.

Back to my story now.

My depression and problems started when I was around eight.

I couldn’t understand why I was so sad all the time. I lost interest in everything, like my friends, my activities (ballet, music, etc.), school and church.

I began to withdraw and isolate myself.

I turned down any invitations from friends to do stuff together, go to parties, sleep over and everything else.

I prayed so hard to God to please help me and make me better. I remember lying in bed almost every night, crying and pleading with him to end the pain and praying for hours.

When nothing changed I thought I must be such a bad person that I wasn’t even worthy of forgiveness and I was being punished for that reason.

I clung to my faith however, even as it became clear he was not going to answer my prayers.

When I was 10 I started thinking about suicide. Then I found out you got sent directly to Hell for that!

By age 12 it felt like I was living in a nightmare every second I was awake. I was miserable beyond words.

Finally when I turned 13 my parents agreed to two important requests I had.

To take me to a psychiatrist and to not make me go to church anymore.

So, I was taught since infancy to believe in God and Heaven.

Although the church in which I was raised didn’t dwell on it, they also taught that if you were not “saved” then you were going to Hell. Forever and ever. And your faith was a huge factor as well.

Because even if you had accepted Jesus, been baptized and attended church, if you subsequently changed your mind, lost your faith and belief and turned your back on God and the church, you were no longer a Christian and therefore were damned.

I spent a lot of time struggling with my belief and my faith. I wanted to believe in God but I was having more and more difficulty with it.

Sometimes I got angry at him because it felt like he didn’t care what happened to his children.

But he still demanded that they believe and be obedient and worship him without doubt.

Then eventually I reached the point of actively questioning his existence.

Was there really a God?

If so, did he decide to leave this universe and go elsewhere eons ago?

Maybe he was so dissatisfied with humans that he wanted to create another life form in a different universe altogether.

Or maybe he had retired and couldn’t be bothered with our problems or our planet now.

Perhaps God was even secretly a sadist who enjoyed punishing us and watching our pain.

He could have created us just for that reason and to play with and experiment on.

On Christmas Eve two years ago I finally lost my faith completely. I no longer believed in God. I was sad about it and sort of grieved for a while.

But, to my amazement I regained my belief last Christmas.

I started to pray and this time it felt as though he was listening. Nothing happened but I felt like I was in his presence or something like that.

I have had terrible things done to me in my life by other people. Both as a child and an adult.

Things which scarred my psyche and twisted my mind to an extent.

Things which hurt me so badly that I could never bring myself to forgive those people.

I felt very angry with them and thought they deserved to pay for their actions.

To me, forgiving them was like saying what they did was ok and no big deal when it had, in fact, ruined my life, warped my mind and affected my entire personality.

Anyway, I was sitting by myself in the dark with only the tree lights on and I suddenly felt like I could forgive everyone who had harmed and abused me.

It was an amazing feeling of relief and joy. It was like the weight of my anger and resentment, which had been crushing me, had suddenly been lifted and the burden was gone.

I was so thankful and happy that I cried a little bit.

From happiness! That has never happened before. I felt free.

Unfortunately since then I have had times where I’ve slid right back into holding grudges.

I have also been struggling with whether or not I believe in God. I want to believe but I have difficulty most days.

So I can’t say whether I really believe or not! I’m sorry I can’t give a better answer.

Been there in some ways, especially about questioning and holding grudges. But I know this life is nothing compared to forever, so that's what I'm holding on to. God doesn't forget your heart. he knows what you've gone through and still came back to him. Nothing is worth losing forever over. I look at the world and see so many things I still want to do and feel hurt because I'm already almost 64 and have obligations to my child and wife. I have a bucket list I want to finish and that takes time and money. But I look at things one way. If God can create the universe from his mind, and it's a beautiful place, I think anyone who believes in him, and Jesus, will return to this earth someday like it was before he made man, that there will still be everything as before, and we can enjoy them without worry. I don't think God will allow hunting, although we will need meat, and Jesus made a lot of fish out of a few, so fishing is ok. Eating is a pleasure that ,if not abused, is something I don't think he will take away. If it can be done,he can do it. I have no doubts I will see all of my pets there, as they are part of our love and history. It's about faith. Some are hurt from the start, some get hurt along the way, and some bring hurt on themselves. But that's all gone when we die if we just believe.

[pineapple01]

Suppose all Gods are OK. Its their Human Reps who ruin the guide lines.

[mauGR1]

"Science" has officially become the new religion.

Warning: It makes you dumb, but you're not aware of it, you're probably feeling even proud of it.

Stay home, stay safe and watch tv

[Skeptic7]

17 hours ago, RangerP703 said:

This is a tough question to answer.

Religion was totally ingrained in me from the time I was an infant. I was taken to church every week of my life growing up.

My grandfather was a very well known minister in this state and much of the South.

I was taught that the most important thing was to accept Jesus Christ as your savior, get baptized and live a good Christian life.

If you did, you would go to Heaven and be in paradise for eternity.

If you didn’t, or if you later rejected God and the church’s teachings, then you were doomed to go to Hell instead.

Now, I will say that, luckily, my church did not empathize Hell as so many others do.

The ministers I grew up around didn’t dwell on God’s punishment much at all, but instead talked about his love and desire for us to be good Christians and obey the teachings of Jesus.

The most important thing was to believe, repent and be saved. You had to have complete faith.

If you did not believe in God, and that the only way to salvation was through Jesus, then you were doomed to an eternity in Hell instead of the good place.

And it was the saddest fate for those who disbelieved. All the church people felt immense sorrow for those who refused to believe and follow the Lord.

Now, being the sort of kid I was, a lot didn’t make sense to me. I kept asking them questions about stuff like what happened to people who were not Christians.

What if they had been raised Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim or another religion but were still good people who were kind, cared about others and lived a righteous, moral life? Surely they weren’t damned in that case?

But I was told that they were going to Hell regardless of how good they were, simply because the only way to get to Heaven was to accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior and ask for forgiveness of all your sins.

Ok, so then I argued what if a person had never heard of Jesus or understood what Christianity was?

Maybe they lived on a remote, undiscovered island and knew nothing of the outside world?

Would they have to go to Hell for not knowing?

That seemed completely unfair and wrong for God to punish them for something that was not their fault.

The church people would smile and tell me how, in that case, they would be shown the truth when they died and offered a chance to accept Jesus then.

They also told me very young children were not sent to Hell.

There is an age of accountability which in my religion was accepted to be when a child reached six or seven years of age.

After this point, they are held responsible for their sins.

Apparently there are seven year old kids in Hell.

It was also important to be baptized, because although you wouldn’t be sent to Hell just because you hadn’t been, it definitely helped you be in God’s favor and have his approval.

My Sunday school teachers started encouraging me to get baptized when I was seven. They’d tell me how they had been praying so hard that I would accept Jesus and turn over my life to him.

The problem was, in my particular Christian denomination, the child had to be the one to decide to make a public profession of faith, walk down to the alter in front of everyone, kneel, and then confess to the minister they were a sinner, had an awakening and had accepted Jesus in their heart.

Then they would ask to be baptized. This was also done with the entire congregation as witnesses at the front of the church in the baptismal pool.

I felt a lot of pressure to get baptized, especially as I turned eight and then nine years old. And the pressure is part of the reason why I didn’t want to.

I resented everyone trying to push me into it. Also, to be honest, I was incredibly nervous at the thought of having to walk to the alter by myself in front of everyone.

I was quite shy as a child. And I didn’t want to do something just because I was expected to do it either.

A bit off the subject for a moment, but I wanted to write that I converted to another denomination when I became an adult.

I was raised a Baptist and decided to convert to the Episcopal Church.

I had recently found my birth family and they are Catholic, so I seriously considered becoming Catholic too. I even went to the local Catholic Church and met with the Monsignor to discuss it.

But I just didn’t think I could follow all the rules and also it really offended me that among the mortal sins was if a wife refused sex with her husband. I don’t mean forever either. I’m talking about one time.

Really??

God will send you to Hell for telling your husband “no, not tonight.”

Anyway, at the Episcopal Church I was finally was baptized in the priest’s office with only one witness. She was there because she had to sign the baptismal certificate.

It was a much better experience (in my opinion) than being dunked backwards into a pool of water and completely immersed.

He sprinkled holy water on the top of my head and my forehead and then anointed me with a special holy oil that he’d brought back from Jerusalem years ago.

After this, I had to take confirmation classes and participate in the ceremony where I recited my vows, and had the bishop place his hands on me and bless me while I received the sacramental rite during a special church service.

I really enjoyed my new church. I liked the ritual involved and the way the services were conducted.

I liked that they gave you the option of doing confession too.

I made a list of every sin I could think of that I had committed in my life and went to confession!

Unfortunately, several years later, the priest was discovered to have embezzled over a million dollars from the church.

It also came out that he had sexually harassed at least eight different women and girls who were members of the congregation, and had several extramarital affairs as well.

I loved him and looked up to him so much. He was like an idealized father figure to me, so naturally I was devastated by this news.

Back to my story now.

My depression and problems started when I was around eight.

I couldn’t understand why I was so sad all the time. I lost interest in everything, like my friends, my activities (ballet, music, etc.), school and church.

I began to withdraw and isolate myself.

I turned down any invitations from friends to do stuff together, go to parties, sleep over and everything else.

I prayed so hard to God to please help me and make me better. I remember lying in bed almost every night, crying and pleading with him to end the pain and praying for hours.

When nothing changed I thought I must be such a bad person that I wasn’t even worthy of forgiveness and I was being punished for that reason.

I clung to my faith however, even as it became clear he was not going to answer my prayers.

When I was 10 I started thinking about suicide. Then I found out you got sent directly to Hell for that!

By age 12 it felt like I was living in a nightmare every second I was awake. I was miserable beyond words.

Finally when I turned 13 my parents agreed to two important requests I had.

To take me to a psychiatrist and to not make me go to church anymore.

So, I was taught since infancy to believe in God and Heaven.

Although the church in which I was raised didn’t dwell on it, they also taught that if you were not “saved” then you were going to Hell. Forever and ever. And your faith was a huge factor as well.

Because even if you had accepted Jesus, been baptized and attended church, if you subsequently changed your mind, lost your faith and belief and turned your back on God and the church, you were no longer a Christian and therefore were damned.

I spent a lot of time struggling with my belief and my faith. I wanted to believe in God but I was having more and more difficulty with it.

Sometimes I got angry at him because it felt like he didn’t care what happened to his children.

But he still demanded that they believe and be obedient and worship him without doubt.

Then eventually I reached the point of actively questioning his existence.

Was there really a God?

If so, did he decide to leave this universe and go elsewhere eons ago?

Maybe he was so dissatisfied with humans that he wanted to create another life form in a different universe altogether.

Or maybe he had retired and couldn’t be bothered with our problems or our planet now.

Perhaps God was even secretly a sadist who enjoyed punishing us and watching our pain.

He could have created us just for that reason and to play with and experiment on.

On Christmas Eve two years ago I finally lost my faith completely. I no longer believed in God. I was sad about it and sort of grieved for a while.

But, to my amazement I regained my belief last Christmas.

I started to pray and this time it felt as though he was listening. Nothing happened but I felt like I was in his presence or something like that.

I have had terrible things done to me in my life by other people. Both as a child and an adult.

Things which scarred my psyche and twisted my mind to an extent.

Things which hurt me so badly that I could never bring myself to forgive those people.

I felt very angry with them and thought they deserved to pay for their actions.

To me, forgiving them was like saying what they did was ok and no big deal when it had, in fact, ruined my life, warped my mind and affected my entire personality.

Anyway, I was sitting by myself in the dark with only the tree lights on and I suddenly felt like I could forgive everyone who had harmed and abused me.

It was an amazing feeling of relief and joy. It was like the weight of my anger and resentment, which had been crushing me, had suddenly been lifted and the burden was gone.

I was so thankful and happy that I cried a little bit.

From happiness! That has never happened before. I felt free.

Unfortunately since then I have had times where I’ve slid right back into holding grudges.

I have also been struggling with whether or not I believe in God. I want to believe but I have difficulty most days.

So I can’t say whether I really believe or not! I’m sorry I can’t give a better answer.

LONGEST post of the thread. Took all that to say I don't know??? ????????

[Peter Denis]

6 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

LONGEST post of the thread. Took all that to say I don't know??? ????????

I gave the post by @RangerP703 a Thanks, because it is an honest story about his personal struggle with conventional organized religion.

Obviously he is a spiritually minded man and he is still looking for answers (which can only be found within himself).

[StreetCowboy]

20 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

LONGEST post of the thread. Took all that to say I don't know??? ????????

I thought he said a lot.
Maybe you need to read it again. 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/24/2020 at 1:37 PM, yodsak said:

The universe did not come from nothing. It started as a singularity, something infinitesimally small, subatomic.   

Is it your claim that the singularity just happened, just occurred, just appeared, out of NOTHING?

Being a logical person, that seems impossible to me.

 

Don't know why that would be a reason to disbelieve in the creator. It's entirely logical to believe that some  force which is unknowable to humans made that singularity, and that caused the sequence of events which led to the universe as we know it, but we don't know much about it, though some think they do.

[giddyup]

On 5/25/2020 at 2:27 AM, Skeptic7 said:

LONGEST post of the thread. Took all that to say I don't know??? ????????

Know what I really hate? When someone responds to a lengthy comment and duplicates that same comment unnecessarily.

[OneMoreFarang]

On 5/24/2020 at 8:48 AM, fredwiggy said:

On 5/24/2020 at 8:37 AM, yodsak said:

The universe did not come from nothing. It started as a singularity, something infinitesimally small, subatomic.   

And that was created by God

How do you know? Did god tell you? And if you think god told you how do you know it was god and not just your imagination?

[Sunmaster]

22 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

How do you know? Did god tell you? And if you think god told you how do you know it was god and not just your imagination?

How do you know what you know, or think you know?

Where you there at the moment of the "Big Bang"? And if you were, how do you know it wasn't a hallucination?

Do you intimately understand the science behind the creation of the material universe, or are you just putting your faith in what some people ASSUME might have happened? 
Are you open-minded enough to listen to a great variety of information sources and draw you own conclusions, or do you prefer to be a slave to your confirmation bias and just BELIEVE what you can't really KNOW?

[CMNightRider]

Scientific proof God exists is DNA  

 

The amount of information in human DNA is roughly the equivalent to 12 sets of The Encyclopedia Britannica, which is an incredible 384 volumes.  DNA is so filled of detailed information, that it would fill 48 feet of library shelves.

 

Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft, said, "DNA is like a software program, only much more complex than anything we have ever devised."  Can you imagine something more intricate than the most complex program running on a supercomputer being devised by accident through evolution, regardless of how much time, how many mutations and how much natural selection takes place?  

 

The only logical conclusion one come possibly come up with is this type of high-level information contained in DNA originated from an intelligent source beyond this planet which would be God.

 

If you can deny DNA in humans, animals, sea life, plants and even bacteria isn't scientific proof of God our Creator, then the only thing that comes to mind is you have been blinded by Satan or you have a low cognitive ability. 

[Tagged]

3 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Scientific proof God exists is DNA  

 

The amount of information in human DNA is roughly the equivalent to 12 sets of The Encyclopedia Britannica, which is an incredible 384 volumes.  DNA is so filled of detailed information, that it would fill 48 feet of library shelves.

 

Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft, said, "DNA is like a software program, only much more complex than anything we have ever devised."  Can you imagine something more intricate than the most complex program running on a supercomputer being devised by accident through evolution, regardless of how much time, how many mutations and how much natural selection takes place?  

 

The only logical conclusion one come possibly come up with is this type of high-level information contained in DNA originated from an intelligent source beyond this planet which would be God.

 

If you can deny DNA in humans, animals, sea life, plants and even bacteria isn't scientific proof of God our Creator, then the only thing that comes to mind is you have been blinded by Satan or you have a low cognitive ability. 

And again, that could easily be us in future, creating life, and populate other planets, and other galaxies. We can become god. But again, if a creator, who created the creator and so on. 

 

Im happy to live my life in trust we just have this time, so no reason to waste it on things we can not know, but at same time be seeking som kind of accept and understanding. Be good, do your best, and live life the best way you can. 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

How do you know what you know, or think you know?

Where you there at the moment of the "Big Bang"? And if you were, how do you know it wasn't a hallucination?

Do you intimately understand the science behind the creation of the material universe, or are you just putting your faith in what some people ASSUME might have happened? 
Are you open-minded enough to listen to a great variety of information sources and draw you own conclusions, or do you prefer to be a slave to your confirmation bias and just BELIEVE what you can't really KNOW?

I learned about science. Some things I understand in detail, others in general, and then there are lots of things which I don't really understand. I try to understand things. And lots of experiences in real life confirm what science tells us. If a scientist explains the BIG BANG I listen to what else that scientist tells us. If he makes sense for things which I understand then it's likely that I believe him - even if I know probably not even 1% of the BIG BANG.

Now on the other side if some guy tells me he had this imagination that god created this and that but he has no evidence then I ask: Why do you think so? And anything related to god and people who believe in god seems to be based on nothing or maybe their imagination.

So who should we believe? People who tell the truth as far as we can see? Or people who tell BS stories all the time?

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I learned about science. Some things I understand in detail, others in general, and then there are lots of things which I don't really understand. I try to understand things. And lots of experiences in real life confirm what science tells us. If a scientist explains the BIG BANG I listen to what else that scientist tells us. If he makes sense for things which I understand then it's likely that I believe him - even if I know probably not even 1% of the BIG BANG.

Now on the other side if some guy tells me he had this imagination that god created this and that but he has no evidence then I ask: Why do you think so? And anything related to god and people who believe in god seems to be based on nothing or maybe their imagination.

So who should we believe? People who tell the truth as far as we can see? Or people who tell BS stories all the time?

There is truth out there that has nothing to do with "imagination". It is out there for anyone to test and prove to the best of his abilities, and stand the scrutiny not of science (who does not possess the tools to investigate it), but of your own personal judgement.
Now, if one decides beforehand that he has no intention of exploring that source of information due to his preconceptions and bias, then the shortcoming is only on his part and not of the information source itself.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Sunmaster

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

There is truth out there that has nothing to do with "imagination". It is out there for anyone to test and prove to the best of his abilities, and stand the scrutiny not of science (who does not possess the tools to investigate it), but of your own personal judgement.
Now, if one decides beforehand that he has no intention of exploring that source of information due to his preconceptions and bias, then the shortcoming is only on his part and not of the information source itself.

And then there are people who want to believe. All facts and science tells them something does not exist but they are sure there is something. Yeah, sure, believe...

[CMNightRider]

2 hours ago, Tagged said:

And again, that could easily be us in future, creating life, and populate other planets, and other galaxies. We can become god. But again, if a creator, who created the creator and so on. 

 

Im happy to live my life in trust we just have this time, so no reason to waste it on things we can not know, but at same time be seeking som kind of accept and understanding. Be good, do your best, and live life the best way you can. 

Do you honestly believe humans in the future will be able to create human life from the earth, animals, sea life, and plant life in the future?  It is obvious you have no understanding of how complex human DNA is, not to mention that of all other living creatures and plant life on this planet.

 

There is only one person who lived on this planet who was free of sin.  Jesus Christ died so we could have an eternal life with Him and God.   Don't throw your opportunity of salvation away by turning a blind eye on the truth.  The last thing anyone in the right mind should want to do is die as a non-believer.

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And then there are people who want to believe. All facts and science tells them something does not exist but they are sure there is something. Yeah, sure, believe...

I can not talk for those who are stuck believing in literal meanings of metaphors and such, but from my point of view, you're just as obtuse as they are.
Do you really think your BS belief system is entirely composed of irrefutable facts? 
Sorry to disappoint you, but if you believe in the popular theories of the Big Bang, Dark Matter, junk DNA, consciousness as produced by the brain etc... then you're just another believer, since none of these fields have been conclusively explored or sufficiently proven. They are just attempts by the scientific community to understand the universe by analyzing a very limited set of data and stubbornly ignoring other sources.
By taking those patchy explanations into your BS, you can be called a believer, just like those people you detest so much for being naive and primitive. 

It would be illogical to think that science holds all the answers to life, when it clearly comes up short in answering the most fundamental questions. 
It would be like expecting neurobiology to give you all the answers to what an individual is. Neurobiology is a 'hard' science, based on hard facts of the material world. But to understand what an individual is, you also need the 'soft' sciences of psychology and sociology, but also more 'fuzzy' disciplines such as philosophy and metaphysics. If you dismiss any of those areas, your final picture will necessarily come up short.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

20 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

then you're just another believer, since none of these fields have been conclusively explored or sufficiently proven

It's impossible to conclusively explore anything.

Let's compare i.e. gravity to prayers. We all can see gravity at work. For small things like a needle falling down, a meteor, and the movement of our planet is based on gravity - and we can calculate it.

Then lets look i.e. at prayers. Do they help? Are they useless?

Or this feeling that another person thinks about me when I think about that person. Lots of experiments were done. And as far as I know not even one shows there is a connection, not even for a few people.

We might conclude we can never be 100% sure about anything. But I prefer 99% sure compared to 0.01% which some people believe.

[Sunmaster]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's impossible to conclusively explore anything.

Let's compare i.e. gravity to prayers. We all can see gravity at work. For small things like a needle falling down, a meteor, and the movement of our planet is based on gravity - and we can calculate it.

Then lets look i.e. at prayers. Do they help? Are they useless?

Or this feeling that another person thinks about me when I think about that person. Lots of experiments were done. And as far as I know not even one shows there is a connection, not even for a few people.

We might conclude we can never be 100% sure about anything. But I prefer 99% sure compared to 0.01% which some people believe.

Well...as far as you know....is evidently not very far at all.

 

The topic of prayer is a big topic. There are different ways to pray and they are not all equal. 

As to the effectiveness of a focused mind, you may want to read this article:
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/muom-fss032917.php
 

You will find stuff like this:
Following up on a 2016 study on group meditation that found a 21.2% reduction in the national homicide rate during the period 2007-2010, a new study focusing on 206 large US urban areas found an even greater decrease of 28.4% in the murder rate. In both studies, the reductions during the period 2007-2010 were in comparison to the baseline period 2002-2006.

[...]
"This study and 17 other peer-reviewed studies suggest that one's individual consciousness is directly connected to an underlying, universal field of consciousness, and that by collectively enlivening that universal field through the Transcendental Meditation technique, such a group can have a positive effect on the quality of life in society," added coauthor Dr. Michael Dillbeck.

And we should also mention the proven (by science!) benefits prayer has on those who pray. 
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/religion/power-prayer-what-happens-your-brain-when-you-pray-n273956

I could go on, but I have a feeling you prefer the comfort of your old beliefs than learn new scientific facts that could shake up your BS.

[Tagged]

3 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

Do you honestly believe humans in the future will be able to create human life from the earth, animals, sea life, and plant life in the future?  It is obvious you have no understanding of how complex human DNA is, not to mention that of all other living creatures and plant life on this planet.

 

There is only one person who lived on this planet who was free of sin.  Jesus Christ died so we could have an eternal life with Him and God.   Don't throw your opportunity of salvation away by turning a blind eye on the truth.  The last thing anyone in the right mind should want to do is die as a non-believer.

The Dna is there, and we can even change it and modifie it! 
 

what I say, we plant seeds right? But the next Im going to say, involve you believe innevolution, where Life evolve during time and adopt to the enviroment they have been placed! 

[OneMoreFarang]

48 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

And we should also mention the proven (by science!) benefits prayer has on those who pray. 
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/religion/power-prayer-what-happens-your-brain-when-you-pray-n273956

I could go on, but I have a feeling you prefer the comfort of your old beliefs than learn new scientific facts that could shake up your BS.

My BS?

 

Maybe that will help you a little.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

 

I am out of here.

[teatime101]

On 5/22/2020 at 8:37 AM, fredwiggy said:

From the intricacies of the brain and thoughts, to an insects wing,  that everything requires oxygen, food and water, all of which just happened to end up on this planet in the right amounts.

This is how a puddle sees the hole in the ground it occupies - as a perfectly formed home.

[Peter Denis]

18 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

My BS?

Maybe that will help you a little.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

I am out of here.

To avoid any misunderstandings, I am pretty sure that @Sunmaster is using shorthand to refer to your Belief-System.

No BS!