Do you believe in God and why

[Elad]

8 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

In your example it seems that the only variable is time. The thought processes are still the same in both twins. The travelling twin only has less time to read the books. It doesn't mean that he's reading slower than the earthbound twin.

 

And where does it say that the speed of thought must be limited to the speed of light? I doubt this is a scientific fact.

In their own reference frames time is running at 1 sec/sec and everything appears to be normal, but relative to one another time is not running at the same rate. 

 

Lets try gravitational time dilation:

If you place two identical clocks, one at the top of mount Everest and one at the bottom, then the top clock ticks ever so slightly faster than the bottom clock. 

If human A stands at the top of the mountain and human B stands at the bottom, then human A's thought's and any other brain activity is slightly faster than human B. 

 

What I'm saying is, the thought processes of a human brain are subject to the same law's as the non living mechanical clock is. Therefore its all physical. 

 

 

 

[mauGR1]

28 minutes ago, Elad said:

In their own reference frames time is running at 1 sec/sec and everything appears to be normal, but relative to one another time is not running at the same rate. 

 

Lets try gravitational time dilation:

If you place two identical clocks, one at the top of mount Everest and one at the bottom, then the top clock ticks ever so slightly faster than the bottom clock. 

If human A stands at the top of the mountain and human B stands at the bottom, then human A's thought's and any other brain activity is slightly faster than human B. 

 

What I'm saying is, the thought processes of a human brain are subject to the same law's as the non living mechanical clock is. Therefore its all physical. 

 

 

 

Sorry, but  although I find your post interesting,  you can't really compare human thoughts to clock mechanisms. 

..also, talking about thoughts and relative speed, if you think for example : "i have a belly ache", or " we need to find a way to make this world a better place" .. they are both "thoughts"', but they are made of a totally different "materials ".

[VincentRJ]

14 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

My God (quite appropriate response to your post by the way)!  The computer-internet comparison is just an allegory to provide some insight in how your individual consciousness relates to the One Consciousness to which we are all connected. 

But we are not discussing computer-science here, nor the electro-chemical reactions in your brain that allow you to read these posts (understanding them is a different matter).

 

No offense meant, but it seems to me that you are only able to think within a hermetically sealed science-box, which explains your fascination with a thread on a subject that discusses what is outside these boxed walls.

But as the saying goes: We can explain it to you, but we cannot understand it for you...

 

Not at all. You've completely misunderstood me. I'm able to think quite far out of any hermetically sealed box. I've read a lot about Buddhism, and I've even read a large part of the Bible, many years ago, as well as the teachings of Krishnamurti and other gurus, and I've also watched Star Trek movies. 

 

I've been quite fascinated by the different concepts around Karma, and how major sects of Buddhism, such as Hinayana, have a quite different view of Karma to the traditional Vedic view of Karma, and so on.

 

It is because I'm aware that there are so many different views and different sects within both the many religious and spiritual the traditions, I am skeptical of any claims that a particular guru or individual has knowledge of any 'absolute' truth.

 

I also understand that we are all at least slightly different, genetically and culturally, and that each person can have a different experience resulting from the same practice, whether a meditation practice or eating a particular diet.

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

The please explain or summarize your point that I missed. My reading ability is not too bad.

My point is that humanity is of no importance, zero actually, IMO, on a cosmic scale. Only humans think we are special, but far as I'm concerned we are alive because we are part of God life force and after our bodies stop working we return to that life force which is in everything in the entire universe.

 

18 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

IMO it's just nature's revenge on us for raping the environment.

We are responsible for all the ills that befall us because we are polluting the planet and bringing about our own downfall as a species IMO. We have destroyed the balance in nature and in return nature will destroy us, IMO.

If we can't learn to live as part of nature, IMO humanity will be extinct in the not so distant future. Even a virus too small to see has caused incredible damage on humanity, but it's not destroying the plants or the fish or the birds- only humans.

I don't see what worms have to do with anything I said.

[Tagged]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

My point is that humanity is of no importance, zero actually, IMO, on a cosmic scale. Only humans think we are special, but far as I'm concerned we are alive because we are part of God life force and after our bodies stop working we return to that life force which is in everything in the entire universe.

 

We are responsible for all the ills that befall us because we are polluting the planet and bringing about our own downfall as a species IMO. We have destroyed the balance in nature and in return nature will destroy us, IMO.

If we can't learn to live as part of nature, IMO humanity will be extinct in the not so distant future. Even a virus too small to see has caused incredible damage on humanity, but it's not destroying the plants or the fish or the birds- only humans.

I don't see what worms have to do with anything I said.

Aggree, but animals have virus when they become to many as well, and most virus come from our close interactions with animals. 

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Aggree, but animals have virus when they become to many as well, and most virus come from our close interactions with animals. 

Let's not forget that, while the word "virus " has become officially the worst enemy of humans, those little things are apparently an essential part of life.

As for our interactions with animals, unfortunately the overpopulation and the greedy lifestyle has produced a very unhealthy industry. 

We should understand better the positive forces of nature, and try to work with them, not against them.

[Tagged]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Let's not forget that, while the word "virus " has become officially the worst enemy of humans, those little things are apparently an essential part of life.

As for our interactions with animals, unfortunately the overpopulation and the greedy lifestyle has produced a very unhealthy industry. 

We should understand better the positive forces of nature, and try to work with them, not against them.

Of course, not to forget the good ones ???? 

 

Most cells in our body doing a good job, but some turn bad also, 

[fredwiggy]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

My point is that humanity is of no importance, zero actually, IMO, on a cosmic scale. Only humans think we are special, but far as I'm concerned we are alive because we are part of God life force and after our bodies stop working we return to that life force which is in everything in the entire universe.

 

We are responsible for all the ills that befall us because we are polluting the planet and bringing about our own downfall as a species IMO. We have destroyed the balance in nature and in return nature will destroy us, IMO.

If we can't learn to live as part of nature, IMO humanity will be extinct in the not so distant future. Even a virus too small to see has caused incredible damage on humanity, but it's not destroying the plants or the fish or the birds- only humans.

I don't see what worms have to do with anything I said.

We are all made in God's image, meaning we are indeed the most important beings in the universe. Animals aren't supposed to have a soul, something we take with us when we die. I think God will let us see our animals when we are in heaven, as they are an important part of our lives and our love. For some reason, God made all of the viruses and poisonous animals and plants, supposedly because Adan and Eve sinned, and we all are paying for their and our own sins because of our free will. I think all of the bad things are very extreme and unnecessary, as with our free will, if we turn our backs on God, then we deserve to be punished, as he is our creator and his laws are indeed his laws. As far as the destruction of this earth, man is first and foremost the main killer, and greed is the reason. Rich that over develop this earth for profit are to blame, and it's hard to stop them because their money is backed by others with money. We all of course contribute as far as using fossil fuels, so either we stop using them and try and slow down population growth, or the earth will run out of food in a short time, and we'll all see the end result, if not in our lifetime, then in our children's.

[thaibeachlovers]

25 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

We are all made in God's image, meaning we are indeed the most important beings in the universe. Animals aren't supposed to have a soul, something we take with us when we die. I think God will let us see our animals when we are in heaven, as they are an important part of our lives and our love. For some reason, God made all of the viruses and poisonous animals and plants, supposedly because Adan and Eve sinned, and we all are paying for their and our own sins because of our free will. I think all of the bad things are very extreme and unnecessary, as with our free will, if we turn our backs on God, then we deserve to be punished, as he is our creator and his laws are indeed his laws. As far as the destruction of this earth, man is first and foremost the main killer, and greed is the reason. Rich that over develop this earth for profit are to blame, and it's hard to stop them because their money is backed by others with money. We all of course contribute as far as using fossil fuels, so either we stop using them and try and slow down population growth, or the earth will run out of food in a short time, and we'll all see the end result, if not in our lifetime, then in our children's.

Reducing population is the key. If we don't nature will, rather unpleasantly.

However, humans can eat insects and seaweed, and desalinate the ocean for drinking water, so lack of food and water isn't going to end us.

[Tagged]

32 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

We are all made in God's image, meaning we are indeed the most important beings in the universe. Animals aren't supposed to have a soul, something we take with us when we die. I think God will let us see our animals when we are in heaven, as they are an important part of our lives and our love. For some reason, God made all of the viruses and poisonous animals and plants, supposedly because Adan and Eve sinned, and we all are paying for their and our own sins because of our free will. I think all of the bad things are very extreme and unnecessary, as with our free will, if we turn our backs on God, then we deserve to be punished, as he is our creator and his laws are indeed his laws. As far as the destruction of this earth, man is first and foremost the main killer, and greed is the reason. Rich that over develop this earth for profit are to blame, and it's hard to stop them because their money is backed by others with money. We all of course contribute as far as using fossil fuels, so either we stop using them and try and slow down population growth, or the earth will run out of food in a short time, and we'll all see the end result, if not in our lifetime, then in our children's.

Today this is rather a naive belief indoctrinated in us from we where children. And still so many people choose to continue a (in my eyes) a misbelief even today. Pure brainwashing, and people know it, they feel it, but still fear the consequenses. 

 

My saying about it, and my belief about my religion and was born in to, but choosed to go away from. 

[Sunmaster]

My idea is different from both thaibeachlovers (virus as punishment for not following nature's laws) and fredwiggy (virus as punishment for the original sin). I don't see it as a punishment at all, rather as a necessary step to aid the development of humankind. Like a catalyst in a chemical reaction, it changes the elements into something new. Everything happens for a reason, even if we can't see the full scope of that reason yet.
 

[Tagged]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

My idea is different from both thaibeachlovers (virus as punishment for not following nature's laws) and fredwiggy (virus as punishment for the original sin). I don't see it as a punishment at all, rather as a necessary step to aid the development of humankind. Like a catalyst in a chemical reaction, it changes the elements into something new. Everything happens for a reason, even if we can't see the full scope of that reason yet.
 

But the virus changes because of human interactions with nature. There is no plan behind the punishment, more a natureal change of the virus, because of our wrongsdoings with the nature. 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Today this is rather a naive belief indoctrinated in us from we where children. And still so many people choose to continue a (in my eyes) a misbelief even today. Pure brainwashing, and people know it, they feel it, but still fear the consequenses. 

 

My saying about it, and my belief about my religion and was born in to, but choosed to go away from. 

In my humble opinion,  while some interpretation of religion can be naive and even worse than that, in fact precious gems of knowledge are hidden in ancient books,  so it's about us to discern the gold from the garbage.

[Tagged]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

In my humble opinion,  while some interpretation of religion can be naive and even worse than that, in fact precious gems of knowledge are hidden in ancient books,  so it's about us to discern the gold from the garbage.

I have always backed up the bible as a source of wisdom, and to be true, we would not have been here today without the religions for good and bad. 

 

What else it could have been, we do not know, but the dicipline that comes with religion, is not all bad. 

[Tagged]

I have to add, that moral have nothing to do if you are or have been religous or not. Good moral is natural in humans and animals. At least as long we do not fear, and have big losses in life where we all, willhave choices to do, to live or to die. Forced or not. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Tagged

[Pique Dard]

where do we come from? what happens after death? why the sun? so many unanswered questions...in my opinion somebody knows, so let us call him god,  yet he isn't the God the bible, the koran or whatever tells us about!

so much misery, so much pain in our world, who is that allmighty essence who - it's said- is our father and loves us, would allow that?

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Tagged said:

I have to add, that moral have nothing to do if you are or have been religous or not. Good moral is natural in humans and animals. At leas as long we do not fear and have big losses in life where we all will have choices to do, to live or to die. 

I only partly agree, good moral is not "natural " in all humans, although it can be said that the imposition of those morals through real or imaginary punishment is not working very well.

[Sunmaster]

4 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Not at all. You've completely misunderstood me. I'm able to think quite far out of any hermetically sealed box. I've read a lot about Buddhism, and I've even read a large part of the Bible, many years ago, as well as the teachings of Krishnamurti and other gurus, and I've also watched Star Trek movies. 

 

I've been quite fascinated by the different concepts around Karma, and how major sects of Buddhism, such as Hinayana, have a quite different view of Karma to the traditional Vedic view of Karma, and so on.

 

It is because I'm aware that there are so many different views and different sects within both the many religious and spiritual the traditions, I am skeptical of any claims that a particular guru or individual has knowledge of any 'absolute' truth.

 

I also understand that we are all at least slightly different, genetically and culturally, and that each person can have a different experience resulting from the same practice, whether a meditation practice or eating a particular diet.

 

 

 

Reading this sort of literature is certainly a great first step. I think it was Buddha who said (but might just as well have been any other sage) "Don't blindly follow what I said, but find out for yourself"...or something along those lines.
Intellectual knowledge is nothing compared to actual, first hand experience.

 

If you were to look at Beethoven's music notations, you could endlessly admire his handwriting, find out the chemical composition of the ink he used, the type of paper he wrote on, perhaps even start to hum the tune in your head. But will that in any way come close to actually hearing the full symphony being played?

What I'm trying to say is, now you see so many different views in many religious and spiritual traditions and can't see what unites them all. Once you start playing the symphony, you will realize that each of those traditions is a single instrument. They don't have the full score of the music and if you listen only to one of them it will sound weird and incomplete. But if you listen to the whole orchestra, you will understand that they are an essential part for the correct rendition of the masterpiece. They all have to play together to reveal the symphony in its full splendor.

We are instruments as well and should tune ourselves properly and play our part in the divine orchestra. Being able to read notes is not enough. Practice is essential.

Oh, and kudos for watching Star Trek. ????

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Sunmaster

[Tagged]

9 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I only partly agree, good moral is not "natural " in all humans, although it can be said that the imposition of those morals through real or imaginary punishment is not working very well.

Well, humans are borned healthy, at least most people are born healthy with no damage, but some are born not healthy when born, and before it was a natural selection also for humans. Bad apples was seeded out, but still it could not prevent someone to turn in to bad apples because of enviroment, life challenges etc. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Tagged

[ross163103]

Some food for thought; sorry if this has already been said, but I didn't want to scroll through 724 pages.

Why is it when one person believes in a fictional, non-existent character they're called crazy............when hundreds of millions do it's called religion?

[Pro1Expat]

On 4/14/2019 at 4:25 PM, ivor bigun said:

 

It has fasinated me for years that people can believe in god and that Jesus was born to his virgin mother .

When you realize that there are so many billions of planets across hundreds of billions of light years.

It must be great to believe in a God and that one day you will be reunited with your loved ones a lady once said to me that she knows she will meet Jesus when she dies,i thought gosh he must be busy sitting down with the billions of people who die.

Do you really believe in him or any of the other Gods ?

 

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

I don't believe in mythical figures

Edited January 21, 2021 by Pro1Expat
Spelling error

[thaibeachlovers]

57 minutes ago, Pro1Expat said:

I don't believe in mythical figures

Do you believe in romantic love? Millions do, but IMO it's a scam designed to make men buy women presents and rings.

If you haven't twigged, I think romantic love is a myth.

 

No problem believing in mother love, love of country etc, but a 50% divorce rate puts the lie to "till death does us part". Romance is real, but "romantic love", nah.

[Sunmaster]

3 hours ago, ross163103 said:

Some food for thought; sorry if this has already been said, but I didn't want to scroll through 724 pages.

Why is it when one person believes in a fictional, non-existent character they're called crazy............when hundreds of millions do it's called religion?

I've got a few questions for you too.

 

How do you know it's fictional and non-existent? Do you have any evidence that the other hundreds of millions don't have yet?

Care to share perhaps? 

Why are you trying to pass off your opinion as a fact?

Maybe you're not even aware that you're doing it, or maybe you are and are just being dishonest? 

What makes you think that God is a "character " anyway? 

 

Perhaps you should read through those 700+ pages...might learn something...

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Sunmaster

[VincentRJ]

On 1/21/2021 at 11:47 AM, Sunmaster said:

Reading this sort of literature is certainly a great first step. I think it was Buddha who said (but might just as well have been any other sage) "Don't blindly follow what I said, but find out for yourself"...or something along those lines.
Intellectual knowledge is nothing compared to actual, first hand experience.

If you were to look at Beethoven's music notations, you could endlessly admire his handwriting, find out the chemical composition of the ink he used, the type of paper he wrote on, perhaps even start to hum the tune in your head. But will that in any way come close to actually hearing the full symphony being played?
 

If you were familiar with symphonies, and had heard Beethoven's symphonies before, and were able to read music, then looking at Beethoven's musical notations will come close to hearing the full symphony, from one's memory. We should also bear in mind that Beethoven suffered from a hearing  loss early in life, yet was still able to compose masterpieces.

 

"Ludwig was still pumping out the masterpieces - even when he was completely deaf. Here's how he did it."
https://www.classicfm.com/composers/beethoven/guides/deaf-hearing-loss-composing/

 

Of course, if one can't read music, and one has never heard a Beethoven symphony before, then the musical notations would be meaningless, just like a foreign language one is not familiar with can be meaningless.

 

However, your type of analogy can be used in another way. Let's imagine the scenario of a person from a primitive tribe in the Amazon jungle who has never heard any western music before, but is familiar with many bird songs, and squeaks and squawks from various animals.

 

One day whilst sitting down in the forest, quietly meditating, a visitor or tourist staying at a fairly close, but invisible lodging, plays a Beethoven symphony, at full blast, through his portable Hi-Fi system. The primitive tribal person has never heard such a sound before and cannot imagine what sort of animal could produce such a complex mixture of so many variable tones, so he imagines he is experiencing a connection with some type of God, or a 'oneness of all consciousness'.

 

When he later mentions this 'religious' experience to a Westerner who is studying the local tribal language, the Westerner asks the tribal person to repeat some of the sounds he heard. The Westerner recognizes some of the sounds as being similar to Beethoven melodies in a particular symphony. He tries to explain to the tribal person that what he heard was not the voice of God, but a piece of music composed by a single man and played by a co-operating group of ordinary people using a variety of different musical instruments, and guided or controlled by an overseeing captain, or conductor.

 

The tribal person refuses to believe such an explanation. He prefers to believe that he is very privileged and special to have had heard the sound of the 'oneness of the universe' or God.

 

However, the Westerner, by sheer coincidence, happens to have a copy of the writings of the same Beethoven symphony back at his hotel lodgings some distance away. He says to the tribal person, 'I'll return in a week's time to explain the origins of the mysterious sound you heard in the forest". A week later, he shows the tribal person the Beethoven manuscript, and explains the meaning of each of the notations, and the sound pitch that each represents, and shows him pictures of the different musical instruments.

 

The tribal person then accepts that what he heard was not the sound of some mysterious God in the heavens. ????

[ross163103]

7 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Why are you trying to pass off your opinion as a fact?

I re-read my post again and I don't see anywhere that I said it was fact. You're right; it's my opinion and for the record, I'm not a dishonest person. Maybe I'm confused, but I thought forums were for questions, answers, facts, and opinions. 

[Sunmaster]

19 minutes ago, ross163103 said:

I re-read my post again and I don't see anywhere that I said it was fact. You're right; it's my opinion and for the record, I'm not a dishonest person. Maybe I'm confused, but I thought forums were for questions, answers, facts, and opinions. 

And you can find all of those in this thread. 
 

 

11 hours ago, ross163103 said:

Why is it when one person believes in a fictional, non-existent character they're called crazy.

Sounds very much like you're stating a fact, not your personal opinion. In any case, it was a cheap stab at organized religion, I'm sure we can agree on that. Of course religion has its shortcoming, and of course, if you want to focus only on those, that's your prerogative. But have you ever wondered what they all have in common? What is the common denominator of every spiritual discipline? Why are so many people attracted to them, regardless if they are backed by science or not? 
Do you think they are all intellectual deficient and hopelessly gullible? All hundreds of millions of them? 

[Sunmaster]

3 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

However, the Westerner, by sheer coincidence, happens to have a copy of the writings of the same Beethoven symphony back at his hotel lodgings some distance away. He says to the tribal person, 'I'll return in a week's time to explain the origins of the mysterious sound you heard in the forest". A week later, he shows the tribal person the Beethoven manuscript, and explains the meaning of each of the notations, and the sound pitch that each represents, and shows him pictures of the different musical instruments.

3 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

The tribal person then accepts that what he heard was not the sound of some mysterious God in the heavens. ????

After 45 years I'm still waiting for that "Westener" to come and give me a better explanation of the cosmic symphony than the one I already have. Some have tried, but all failed. They came with their books, fancy theories and ingenious instruments, but all they did was scratch the surface. They always talked about the shadows while I was pointing at the sun...

 

 

[jvs]

I have read a lot of replies and replied a few times myself.

This topic could be 500pages shorter if the title was a little different.

Do you believe in a God and if so which one and why?

Some very smart people with a lot of thought responses,the more i see the more i wonder

but i still am a non believer.

[ross163103]

5 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Sounds very much like you're stating a fact, not your personal opinion. In any case, it was a cheap stab at organized religion, I'm sure we can agree on that. Of course religion has its shortcoming, and of course, if you want to focus only on those, that's your prerogative. But have you ever wondered what they all have in common? What is the common denominator of every spiritual discipline? Why are so many people attracted to them, regardless if they are backed by science or not? 
Do you think they are all intellectual deficient and hopelessly gullible? All hundreds of millions of them? 

You have your opinion, I have mine, how about we agree to disagree as most conversations between people discussing religion with differing views never get solved. It just goes on and on and on, like this thread. You can have the last word, I'm out.

[Sunmaster]

16 minutes ago, ross163103 said:

You have your opinion, I have mine, how about we agree to disagree as most conversations between people discussing religion with differing views never get solved. It just goes on and on and on, like this thread. You can have the last word, I'm out.

No problem. Bye