Do you believe in God and why

[yodsak]

 The Canaanites created Yahweh. He originated in southern Canaan as a lesser god in the Canaanite pantheon. The Ugarit predates the Bible and reveals Yahweh was one of the seventy children of El, each of whom was the patron deity of one of the seventy nations. This is illustrated by the Dead Sea Scrolls and Septuagint texts of Deuteronomy 32:8–9, in which El, as the head of the divine assembly, gives each member of the divine family a nation of his own, "according to the number of the divine sons”.  Israel is the portion of YHWH. 

 

Yahwism existed parallel to Canaanite polytheism, and in turn was the monolatristic, primitive predecessor stage of modern Judaism, in its evolution into a monotheistic religion. From the 9th to the 6th centuries BCE the Yahwistic religion separated itself from its Canaanite heritage as Yahweh became the main god of the Kingdom of Israel and Judea and over time the royal court and temple in Jerusalem promoted Yahweh as the god of the entire cosmos possessing all the positive qualities previously attributed to the other gods and goddesses.  By the end of the Babylonian captivity  (6th century BCE), the very existence of foreign gods was denied, and Yahweh was proclaimed as the creator of the cosmos and the one true God of all the world.

[mauGR1]

12 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

I dont believe there is a God ,but it amazes me that two religions that actually believe in him and his prophet,see them and him in such different ways ,Christians aresupposed to be all about love and peace and you dont see a lot of them killing and bombing people ,while the Muslims seem to see him as a vengfull sort of a guy ,or so it seems from what we constantly see in the papers day after day after day ,now what about the Jews who actually invented him?

I have the slight impression that you are missing a few subtleties here ????

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

I dont believe there is a God ,but it amazes me that two religions that actually believe in him and his prophet,see them and him in such different ways ,Christians aresupposed to be all about love and peace and you dont see a lot of them killing and bombing people ,while the Muslims seem to see him as a vengfull sort of a guy ,or so it seems from what we constantly see in the papers day after day after day ,now what about the Jews who actually invented him?

The Muslims that kill people are just as much using their version to justify it as the inquisition did. Neither religion says it's OK.

BTW Christians are not all about love and peace. "Love" as used in the Bible does not mean what many mistakenly assume it does- English is a very bad language to convey differences when the same word is used for many different things. IMO Christianity in essence is about following the commandments, forgiveness, love of others, and salvation through belief in God and repentance of sins.

Islam is about obedience to the Koran, praying and tithing etc.

If there is a basic difference, IMO it's that Christianity is about what is within one, and Islam is about conformity, in an external sort of way.

 

Just because maniacs pervert the teachings, it doesn't mean either religion is bad.

 

I don't know enough about Judaism to comment.

[ivor bigun]

All i know is that Jesus was a good man who preached peace and love ,while the other one was a warlord who killed thousands and eventually married a 6 yr old girl , if i believed in religion at least i know which one i would follow .and it is not a warlord and a man that marries a child .

[Surelynot]

25 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

All i know is that Jesus was a good man who preached peace and love ,while the other one was a warlord who killed thousands and eventually married a 6 yr old girl , if i believed in religion at least i know which one i would follow .and it is not a warlord and a man that marries a child .

I think she was engaged at six, married at nine.......so they didn't rush into anything.............555

Edited April 2, 2021 by Surelynot

[mauGR1]

4 hours ago, Surelynot said:

I think she was engaged at six, married at nine.......so they didn't rush into anything.............555

Some of you guys are very funny. 

I don't know if the historical facts about someone who lived 1000s years ago are correct and exact,  but do you really think that a "bad man" would be accepted as a prophet by billions of people .

I would guess that in that time, in that place, it was normal to choose a wife of that age.

Marriages were arranged by families in western countries too, not too long ago. 

[Surelynot]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

I don't know if the historical facts about someone who lived 1000s years ago are correct and exact,

OMG....what are you saying?.... the Bible might not be rock solid fact!

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

OMG....what are you saying?.... the Bible might not be rock solid fact!

I never said that, although there must be some truth and some facts there, for those who care.

[Surelynot]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

I never said that, although there must be some truth and some facts there, for those who care.

Just messing........I 'hate' the cherry picking....not by you....but so called scholars. 

[Surelynot]

11 hours ago, yodsak said:

 The Canaanites created Yahweh. He originated in southern Canaan as a lesser god in the Canaanite pantheon. The Ugarit predates the Bible and reveals Yahweh was one of the seventy children of El, each of whom was the patron deity of one of the seventy nations. This is illustrated by the Dead Sea Scrolls and Septuagint texts of Deuteronomy 32:8–9, in which El, as the head of the divine assembly, gives each member of the divine family a nation of his own, "according to the number of the divine sons”.  Israel is the portion of YHWH. 

 

Yahwism existed parallel to Canaanite polytheism, and in turn was the monolatristic, primitive predecessor stage of modern Judaism, in its evolution into a monotheistic religion. From the 9th to the 6th centuries BCE the Yahwistic religion separated itself from its Canaanite heritage as Yahweh became the main god of the Kingdom of Israel and Judea and over time the royal court and temple in Jerusalem promoted Yahweh as the god of the entire cosmos possessing all the positive qualities previously attributed to the other gods and goddesses.  By the end of the Babylonian captivity  (6th century BCE), the very existence of foreign gods was denied, and Yahweh was proclaimed as the creator of the cosmos and the one true God of all the world.

Is this from Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones?

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Just messing........I 'hate' the cherry picking....not by you....but so called scholars. 

Fair enough, but a narrow mind is not necessarily a believer ????

[yodsak]

On 3/18/2021 at 9:59 AM, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Having said that it seems the basis of his beliefs were often pretty out there and in part strange and often non scientific.

 Indeed they were.   Biodynamics; organic farming with astrology, homeopathy and magic. 

 

 Field-mice control: ''Thus you obtain your burned mouse-skin at the time when Venus is in Scorpio. And there remain, in what is thus destroyed by the fire, the corresponding negative force as against the reproductive power of the field-mouse. Take the pepper you get in this way, and sprinkle it over your fields. In some districts it may be difficult to carry out; then you can afford to do it even more homoeopathically; you do not need a whole plateful. Provided it has been led through the fire at the high conjunction of Venus and Scorpio, you will find this an excellent remedy. Henceforth, your mice will avoid the field.’’  — R.Steiner.

 More interesting theories on insect and weed control  here  >  ash

 

In New Zealand, experiments on the potency of biodynamic tinctures for possum pest control were conducted without any apparent success. > pestash

[yodsak]

In summary, peer-reviewed research provides little evidence that biodynamic preparations improve soils, enhance microbes, increase crop quality or yields, or control pests or pathogens. There has been observed a general lack of efficacy over the benefits provided by organic methods. The review also establishes that the additional costs associated with formulating and applying the preparations represent an economic loss when compared to organic farming.  — The problem with  biodynamics:  myths, quacks and pseudoscience.  

  In it, Dunning lays out his case for why Rudolph Steiner lacks a lot of credibility on many subjects, and as a whole seems to have been more of a charlatan than a visionary.  > biodynamic-viticulture-pseudoscience 

[Tagged]

On 4/2/2021 at 12:35 PM, ivor bigun said:

All i know is that Jesus was a good man who preached peace and love ,while the other one was a warlord who killed thousands and eventually married a 6 yr old girl , if i believed in religion at least i know which one i would follow .and it is not a warlord and a man that marries a child .

I guess all this Jesus loving troops evolving in that area did conquer, steal, rape in Jesus name on behalf of The popes greed and lust, finely resultet in a new clan, new tribe relegion and finely got a visonary warlord who they could cultivate and finely get the drive and conviction they needed to win against the "Christian" threath. Just a thought, that the Christians back in that time, was really no angels, and Jesus name have been abused for what is been worth throughout the history. 

 

There will always be a counterpart no matter what it is. 

 

You can say China is that counterpart at the moment to us in the west. They have sit back for long now, and will rise, be smarter and better. Time will show

[canthai55]

!

Edited April 5, 2021 by canthai55

[mauGR1]

3 hours ago, Tagged said:

I guess all this Jesus loving troops evolving in that area did conquer, steal, rape in Jesus name on behalf of The popes greed and lust, finely resultet in a new clan, new tribe relegion and finely got a visonary warlord who they could cultivate and finely get the drive and conviction they needed to win against the "Christian" threath. Just a thought, that the Christians back in that time, was really no angels, and Jesus name have been abused for what is been worth throughout the history. 

 

There will always be a counterpart no matter what it is. 

 

You can say China is that counterpart at the moment to us in the west. They have sit back for long now, and will rise, be smarter and better. Time will show

Pretty fair post.

History is said to be written by the winners, and somehow it repeats itself.

.. Anyway,  I wouldn't call a Christian one who cheat, steal and kill in the name of Christ.

Ideals are often used as excuses for criminal acts.

Edited April 5, 2021 by mauGR1

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

Pretty fair post.

History is said to be written by the winners, and somehow it repeats itself.

.. Anyway,  I wouldn't call a Christian one who cheat, steal and kill in the name of Christ.

Ideals are often used as excuses for criminal acts.

You cant have success in life without stepping on anyones toes, or go against Jesus words. There is no life living by religion, but, to be fear, they already covered that pretty nicely as we all are sinners, and we all will be forgiven if we only ask for forgivness. Same as Budda would have been furious if ha had come back and seen whats done in his name. 

 

Being religious is for most people ha cover, and not possible for most humans to be 100% true. But it is nice disturbance and take away many peoples worries, and give hope as well keep people focused to stribe to be a good religious person. For sure helped a lot of mental disturbed and troubled people to stay on the track, and out of trouble for themselves as others. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Tagged

[Fat is a type of crazy]

14 minutes ago, Tagged said:

You cant have success in life without stepping on anyones toes, or go against Jesus words. There is no life living by religion, but, to be fear, they already covered that pretty nicely as we all are sinners, and we all will be forgiven if we only ask for forgivness. Same as Budda would have been furious if ha had come back and seen whats done in his name. 

 

Being religious is for most people ha cover, and not possible for most humans to be 100% true. But it is nice disturbance and take away many peoples worries, and give hope as well keep people focused to stribe to be a good religious person. For sure helped a lot of mental disturbed and troubled people to stay on the track, and out of trouble for themselves as others. 

I think religion is good for some and can stabilise them and give them meaning and put them on a better track. Others use it as a crutch and an excuse for their prejudices and immorality and lies. For most I think it just helps them make sense of each day and keep going and helps them feel better about sacrifices they have made.  

 

For the mentally ill it can put them on track but for many it sends them to a more extreme justification of their inner false reality. They may feel they  have nothing left but faith.  They get attracted to the more extreme religions and they're illness is given acceptance and a direction and purpose that can be  destructive  to themselves and the community. 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I think religion is good for some and can stabilise them and give them meaning and put them on a better track. Others use it as a crutch and an excuse for their prejudices and immorality and lies. For most I think it just helps them make sense of each day and keep going and helps them feel better about sacrifices they have made.  

 

For the mentally ill it can put them on track but for many it sends them to a more extreme justification of their inner false reality. They may feel they  have nothing left but faith.  They get attracted to the more extreme religions and they're illness is given acceptance and a direction and purpose that can be  destructive  to themselves and the community. 

You and the poster you quoted seem to have not a positive opinion of religion, i have a more neutral vision.

Apart from the fact that's not possible to know how the world would be without religion or ideals, beliefs of some sort seem to be inseparable from existence itself as we know it.

The problem starts when some people become intolerant, and the question is, how much intolerance one can tolerate?

[Tagged]

46 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

You and the poster you quoted seem to have not a positive opinion of religion, i have a more neutral vision.

Apart from the fact that's not possible to know how the world would be without religion or ideals, beliefs of some sort seem to be inseparable from existence itself as we know it.

The problem starts when some people become intolerant, and the question is, how much intolerance one can tolerate?

Hopefully we have learned something about human nature by now, and should be able to make good decissions and be better at being religious humans?  Or are we still walking blind and will do the same mistakes all over again and again? History do tell us, we will do the same mistake over and over again and again. So why is it so hard? Why do religion have to ba so difficult? Why are we doomed to fail being good humans? Is it because most religions is going against our nature? 

 

You know what I have written about religion before, and you know you and me have the same view at things, with minor issues that seperates us. Im maybe have  a bit more objective view than you, and not as personal view, and I have a sceptic view on how people handle power, especially when given religious power, which I believe we also share. 

 

I call god the Nature, mother earth, the sun, the moon and the universe, and I do not believe in idividual spirit or conscinus. Thats where you and me seperate I think, but that is not really any big issue for me

Edited April 5, 2021 by Tagged

[mauGR1]

45 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Hopefully we have learned something about human nature by now, and should be able to make good decissions and be better at being religious humans?  Or are we still walking blind and will do the same mistakes all over again and again? History do tell us, we will do the same mistake over and over again and again. So why is it so hard? Why do religion have to ba so difficult? Why are we doomed to fail being good humans? Is it because most religions is going against our nature? 

 

You know what I have written about religion before, and you know you and me have the same view at things, with minor issues that seperates us. Im maybe have  a bit more objective view than you, and not as personal view, and I have a sceptic view on how people handle power, especially when given religious power, which I believe we also share. 

 

I call god the Nature, mother earth, the sun, the moon and the universe, and I do not believe in idividual spirit or conscinus. Thats where you and me seperate I think, but that is not really any big issue for me

Put this way, I have no disagreements with you... Except that intolerant people  would be intolerant,  regardless of religion.  .. and good people would be good people regardless of religion. 

[Tagged]

26 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Put this way, I have no disagreements with you... Except that intolerant people  would be intolerant,  regardless of religion.  .. and good people would be good people regardless of religion. 

So what you claim I am intolerant, and not a good human.

 

I would rather put it the other way around, that most of the humans have lived under control of religions and been surpressed over so many generations, that enough is enough when it comes to what the majority of people now do find as fairytales, but out of respect of culture, traditions, free religions, free speach,  and many other things, still put up with it. Also not to forget,  it is still  under control of the governments, or still influence politicians and politics to a certain degree, or to a larger degree for some governments and politicians. 

 

Intolerance goes both ways, and it is a great weapon to silence those who do not believe, and just put those who dissagree in the the group of bad people as well. 

 

Good moral, and being a good human, have nothing to do with religion. Animals have mostly good moral among themselves, and do they have any religion to tell them how to behave, or is just pure survival instincts. They know something we do not know, and that is if you are going to survive as a specie, you need good moral. Humans seems to lack that, even we have religion, common sense, higher iq ,,,,,,,,,,, and still we are the most self destructive animal on this planet we know of. 

 

[mauGR1]

11 minutes ago, Tagged said:

So what you claim I am intolerant, and not a good human.

Really?

How can you say that ?

Excuse me, but what you say is not true.

Obviously I didn't read the rest of your post.

I don't even know you, why would i say that you're not a good guy ?

Actually I believe that the great majority of people are good people,  and that surely includes you.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

23 minutes ago, Tagged said:

So what you claim I am intolerant, and not a good human.

 

I would rather put it the other way around, that most of the humans have lived under control of religions and been surpressed over so many generations, that enough is enough when it comes to what the majority of people now do find as fairytales, but out of respect of culture, traditions, free religions, free speach,  and many other things, still put up with it. Also not to forget,  it is still  under control of the governments, or still influence politicians and politics to a certain degree, or to a larger degree for some governments and politicians. 

 

Intolerance goes both ways, and it is a great weapon to silence those who do not believe, and just put those who dissagree in the the group of bad people as well. 

 

Good moral, and being a good human, have nothing to do with religion. Animals have mostly good moral among themselves, and do they have any religion to tell them how to behave, or is just pure survival instincts. They know something we do not know, and that is if you are going to survive as a specie, you need good moral. Humans seems to lack that, even we have religion, common sense, higher iq ,,,,,,,,,,, and still we are the most self destructive animal on this planet we know of. 

 

Most animals aren't moral..seen a cat play with an injured bird in pain..they would do the same to us if they were big enough. Seen one introduced species wipe out another. Morality suggests an intelligence to have choice.. animals just do what they do. Sure they impact the world less than us and some have a good nature but I would not call that morality.

[canthai55]

I belong to the Frisbee Faith

I believe when you die your Soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down.

Sounds as likely as any - ALL - of the 'Organized' religions

[Fat is a type of crazy]

2 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

You and the poster you quoted seem to have not a positive opinion of religion, i have a more neutral vision.

Apart from the fact that's not possible to know how the world would be without religion or ideals, beliefs of some sort seem to be inseparable from existence itself as we know it.

The problem starts when some people become intolerant, and the question is, how much intolerance one can tolerate?

Can't see that my post was intolerant. I think you concur that religion has been good for some and not others.

The problem I see with this topic is that you have the known scientific reality and you have those that feel that faith is warranted in something that cannot be proven at this time. 

There are 2 approaches to this. 

Those with a faith can discuss ways of how to bring science to their beliefs. They might discuss science at the edges; where testing has been done but at this stage it has not objectively proven their case.   They can feel shut down by those who just stick to objectively proven science.

Those sticking to objectively proven  science might look if it is possible to introduce the idea of god but so far it is not possible to do so with out faith.  

A new topic could be introduced ' I have faith or belief in spirituality and or god and or religion. Discuss' That could be an open discussion for those of faith and skeptics could be tolerant and keep away. 

[Tagged]

18 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Most animals aren't moral..seen a cat play with an injured bird in pain..they would do the same to us if they were big enough. Seen one introduced species wipe out another. Morality suggests an intelligence to have choice.. animals just do what they do. Sure they impact the world less than us and some have a good nature but I would not call that morality.

Read most animals have good moral among their own specie, and most animals do not kill each other of same specie. 

 

Yes Killer whales kill other animals they eat, they even play with them to become a better hunter, and also teach the rest of the group. Thats what a cat do, when it try to teach you to catch mouse to. 

[mauGR1]

2 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Can't see that my post was intolerant. I think you concur that religion has been good for some and not others.

The problem I see with this topic is that you have the known scientific reality and you have those that feel that faith is warranted in something that cannot be proven at this time. 

There are 2 approaches to this. 

Those with a faith can discuss ways of how to bring science to their beliefs. They might discuss science at the edges; where testing has been done but at this stage it has not objectively proven their case.   They can feel shut down by those who just stick to objectively proven science.

Those sticking to objectively proven  science might look if it is possible to introduce the idea of god but so far it is not possible to do so with out faith.  

A new topic could be introduced ' I have faith or belief in spirituality and or god and or religion. Discuss' That could be an open discussion for those of faith and skeptics could be tolerant and keep away. 

Same as the other poster, you think I'm accusing you to be intolerant!!

 

Are you folks so embedded with your egos to think that everything is about you??

This thread is not about you, it's about believing in God or not !

I'm talking in general !

[Fat is a type of crazy]

On 3/7/2021 at 10:38 AM, mauGR1 said:

Well, i guess you are entitled to your opinion,  but calling spiritual science "pseudoscience " is not fair either.

..and yes, some of those materialistic science-types display a level of intolerance comparable to the Spanish inquisition. 

So you can have a go at me, but I cannot have a go at you, right ?

How tolerant ..????

 

 

7 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Same as the other poster, you think I'm accusing you to be intolerant!!

 

Are you folks so embedded with your egos to think that everything is about you??

This thread is not about you, it's about believing in God or not !

I'm talking in general !

 

OK Fair enough. But in your post you refer to above you did suddenly pivot to the issue of tolerance .. and you have been known to comment on others before.. including the above where you suggested I am not tolerant

[Tagged]

12 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Same as the other poster, you think I'm accusing you to be intolerant!!

 

Are you folks so embedded with your egos to think that everything is about you??

This thread is not about you, it's about believing in God or not !

I'm talking in general !

Sometime we are blinded by other egos, who yet have to discover they still have, as well show it in a brilliant way time to time. As you know, (should now by now) if you managed to let go of your ego, you would never have been the top poster here in this thread ????????????

Edited April 5, 2021 by Tagged