Brexit cannot define us, says UK PM's deputy as ratings dip

[welovesundaysatspace]

28 minutes ago, jinners said:

I wish for you to feel neither. While you haven't actually stated, I would guess you are not from the UK in which case it is none of your business anyway. Why you would find such glee should things become difficult is hard to understand, unless you are simply a sad gloater as your post suggests, but there are many stronger arguments predicting success once we (if ever) finally do leave the EU than the puerile scare stories attached to those wishing we remain. Including yours. If you can't say anything nice, say nothing at all may be something you should consider.

Cute. Those that spread lies and hatred for years are offended when people feel Schadenfreude about their failure. Be assured I will keep celebrating your failure regardless of my nationality. 

[evadgib]

The best news i've seen today came from Andrew Pierce suggesting Farage is set to unveil more high profile names this week which could well include Doris Karloff ????

Edited April 22, 2019 by evadgib

[Laughing Gravy]

Those ill informed or just damn ignorant slamming NF as a has been. Oh dear they are in for one huge shock

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/six-in-ten-tories-to-vote-for-brexit-party-in-european-elections-bb8j22d9r

 

More than 60 per cent of Conservative Party members will vote for Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party in the European elections, according to a survey for a leading Tory website.

A similar poll showed that a high number of Tory councillors also planned to back their rivals, as the former Ukip leader continued to send shockwaves through Westminster.

Last week two polls suggested that Mr Farage’s new party was ahead of the Conservatives and Labour and heading for victory in the European parliament elections next month.

Mr Farage said yesterday that the main political parties had underestimated the extent of voters’ anger over the failure to leave the European Union. He added: “A lot of Conservatives are disgusted with what the party has done.”

He said that his party would “sweep the board” in the elections three years after the UK voted to leave the EU.

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

It is not just defined to the Cons.

Labour also. A big shock coming the UK's way with regards to the two main parties. 'What you reap is what you Sow' is a suitable quote for these two parties.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/nigel-farage-uses-tom-watsons-words-as-brexit-party-rallying-cry-70lc62g09

 

Nigel Farage says that he will capitalise on Labour’s divisions about a second Brexit referendum after Tom Watson, its deputy leader, accused his own party of “mealy mouthed” support for another public poll.

Mr Watson said yesterday that Labour would not defeat the Brexit Party if it looked like it half agreed with it.

Mr Farage said he would use Mr Watson’s words to target Labour’s heartlands.

“If Tom Watson thinks that the Labour Party going for a second referendum is going to solve everything I have got news for him, because if you go to south Wales or the Midlands or the north of England you find Labour constituencies with big Leave majorities. Five million people who voted Brexit also voted for Mr Corbyn in 2017.”

A second referendum would be a “total insult” to Labour voters who supported Brexit, Mr Farage said, adding: “I now intend to wholeheartedly target Labour lies and dishonesty.”

Nigel Farage says that he will capitalise on Labour’s divisions about a second Brexit referendum after Tom Watson, its deputy leader, accused his own party of “mealy mouthed” support for another public poll.

Mr Watson said yesterday that Labour would not defeat the Brexit Party if it looked like it half agreed with it.

Mr Farage said he would use Mr Watson’s words to target Labour’s heartlands.

“If Tom Watson thinks that the Labour Party going for a second referendum is going to solve everything I have got news for him, because if you go to south Wales or the Midlands or the north of England you find Labour constituencies with big Leave majorities. Five million people who voted Brexit also voted for Mr Corbyn in 2017.”

A second referendum would be a “total insult” to Labour voters who supported Brexit, Mr Farage said, adding: “I now intend to wholeheartedly target Labour lies and dishonesty.”

[nauseus]

55 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The best news i've seen today came from Andrew Pierce suggesting Farage is set to unveil more high profile names this week which could well include Doris Karloff ????

Do you mean Widdecombe or Boris? I like them both. ????

 

[nauseus]

20 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

It is not just defined to the Cons.

Labour also. A big shock coming the UK's way with regards to the two main parties. 'What you reap is what you Sow' is a suitable quote for these two parties.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/nigel-farage-uses-tom-watsons-words-as-brexit-party-rallying-cry-70lc62g09

 

Nigel Farage says that he will capitalise on Labour’s divisions about a second Brexit referendum after Tom Watson, its deputy leader, accused his own party of “mealy mouthed” support for another public poll.

Mr Watson said yesterday that Labour would not defeat the Brexit Party if it looked like it half agreed with it.

Mr Farage said he would use Mr Watson’s words to target Labour’s heartlands.

“If Tom Watson thinks that the Labour Party going for a second referendum is going to solve everything I have got news for him, because if you go to south Wales or the Midlands or the north of England you find Labour constituencies with big Leave majorities. Five million people who voted Brexit also voted for Mr Corbyn in 2017.”

A second referendum would be a “total insult” to Labour voters who supported Brexit, Mr Farage said, adding: “I now intend to wholeheartedly target Labour lies and dishonesty.”

Nigel Farage says that he will capitalise on Labour’s divisions about a second Brexit referendum after Tom Watson, its deputy leader, accused his own party of “mealy mouthed” support for another public poll.

Mr Watson said yesterday that Labour would not defeat the Brexit Party if it looked like it half agreed with it.

Mr Farage said he would use Mr Watson’s words to target Labour’s heartlands.

“If Tom Watson thinks that the Labour Party going for a second referendum is going to solve everything I have got news for him, because if you go to south Wales or the Midlands or the north of England you find Labour constituencies with big Leave majorities. Five million people who voted Brexit also voted for Mr Corbyn in 2017.”

A second referendum would be a “total insult” to Labour voters who supported Brexit, Mr Farage said, adding: “I now intend to wholeheartedly target Labour lies and dishonesty.”

That was twice as big as it need to be but I'll forgive you. ????

[Laughing Gravy]

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

That was twice as big as it need to be but I'll forgive you. ????

 

 

My last one. This is for those who don't have the pay per site. Besides the headline which I don't agree with. A great piece of honest journalism. A rarity these days.

 

How the Conservatives can defeat Farage

Clare Foges

As the Brexit Party soars in the opinion polls, the Tories need a new approach if they are to outwit their nemisis.

 

A few years ago, I sailed the ocean blue with Nigel Farage. The vessel was a cruise liner bound for Guernsey, the occasion a floating convention for Eurosceptics (long story). He arrived wearing a colonial-style pith helmet; sported Union Jack-patterned leather shoes; had a pint of Bombardier superglued to one hand. So far, so cartoon ’Kipper. But when I chatted to Farage a more surprising man emerged: reflective, non-patronising, direct, wearied by a life of constant battling. Reader, I rather liked him. I may think Brexit a monumentally bad idea, but I cannot see Brexit’s chief architect as the racist, sinister, manipulative monster that many paint him to be — and if Farage’s opponents want to beat him, they need to ditch this tired line of attack.

It seems that nothing can slay the irrepressible Farage. Not a plane crash, electoral failure, party scandal, media ridicule, death threats or multiple resignations. The ultimate political Lazarus is back, his Brexit Party surging in the polls in the run-up to next month’s European parliament elections. YouGov has the new party in first place at 27 per cent, with Labour on 22 per cent and the Conservatives on 15 per cent. A survey out yesterday suggested that 40 per cent of Conservative councillors were planning to vote for the Brexit Party.

His political opponents are rightly very, very afraid. Once upon a time Farage was shackled to the mad and bad of Ukip: the one who taught a dog the Nazi salute, the one who talked of “Bongo Bongo Land”, the one who campaigned against a conspiracy of EU toasters that left bread all “peely-wally”. Hauling this net of idiots behind him acted as a drag anchor on Farage’s political talents for years. Now freed of the Ukip name and the ghastly purple branding, now in a fresh outfit with more credible candidates, he is a serious threat to the mainstream parties not only next month but at the increasingly likely second referendum or general election that may follow.

Farage’s gift is that he manages to speak to us not as automatons but as sentient beings. While the vast majority of politicians recite from a script that has been fed through a “what would play well with ordinary folk” filter, he does the extraordinary thing of saying what he actually thinks. No “try-to-please-everyone” triangulations, no working out what Mondeo Man would like to hear in order to win a few more votes. Whether you agree with Farage or not — and on Europe I strongly disagree — you have to concede that this makes him electoral dynamite.

What should Farage’s Conservative opponents do, then? They must first cease those pointless attacks on him for being part of the establishment he claims to hate. However clever it may seem to point out, most people don’t care that Farage went to private school, or worked in the City, or that he was a tried-and-failed Conservative candidate. They don’t care that he is friendly with Donald Trump, or that he has used private planes, or that he set up a tax avoidance vehicle for his children’s inheritance. They don’t care, in short, that he attacks the “career professional political class” while being one of them. Farage can get away with any seeming hypocrisy because he is comfortable in his own skin and convinced of his own beliefs.

They don’t care, either, about the fact that he has hung out with Marine Le Pen or clapped Viktor Orban on the back, or that he’s a fan of Steve Bannon. Whether we view them as beyond the pale or not, Twitter assassins need to realise that the average voter does not think about these figures, or find it sinister that Farage knows them.

The attacks on Farage for being a raving racist fall flat, too. Yes, the infamous “Breaking Point” poster he unveiled during the referendum campaign was unpleasant, but trawl through his statements on immigration and you will not find much that the majority of voters would disagree with. He feels that an extra five million migrants over the coming decade would be too much; that low-skilled migration from Europe has undermined wages here; that social cohesion matters just as much as GDP figures when it comes to measuring the impact of immigration. When critics mutter that Farage is a fascist because of these views it only demonstrates the howling gulf in opinion between some of the well-heeled and less well-off parts of our nation.

Moreover, now that his Brexit Party is taking votes from Ukip, which these days is aligned with the extremist tub-thumper Tommy Robinson, Farage can claim to be the mainstream politician who has done the most to neuter the nastier elements of the far right.

In short, it will never work for Conservatives to attack the man or his cause directly. Every time Farage is labelled a racist for raising concerns about immigration that are held by the majority of voters, his reputation as a teller of truths is burnished. Sneering at his pie-and-a-pint mateyness and nostalgia for a certain kind of England is always going to be counterproductive, for it is seen by many as an attack on their own beliefs and their own lives.

For the Conservatives, the one way to counteract the Farage phenomenon is to be very clear about what it will strengthen: Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour. The message that must go out from now, in the first few weeks of the Brexit Party’s existence, is that voting for Farage’s movement will only profit the socialists. After Theresa May’s disastrous three years in power, and with Conservative policies running on empty, Leave voters in Middle England can no longer be relied upon to vote Tory.

The only thing that may animate them, or at least prevent them from supporting the Brexit Party, is that by deserting the Conservatives they are giving momentum to the Momentumites, emboldening Corbyn, and increasing the possibility of a Marxist in Downing Street before the year is out. David Cameron once joked that if voters got into bed with Nigel Farage, they would wake up with Ed Miliband. This time they’d be waking up with a true Red in the bed: a man who would raise taxes, nationalise swathes of British industry and cosy up to Russia. Asking people to vote tactically may be uninspiring, and might betray the paucity of policy and personality afflicting the Conservative Party, but Tories seeking to defeat Farage must remember that attacking the man himself will get them nowhere.

 

[Nigel Garvie]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

It is not just defined to the Cons.

Labour also. A big shock coming the UK's way with regards to the two main parties. 'What you reap is what you Sow' is a suitable quote for these two parties.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/nigel-farage-uses-tom-watsons-words-as-brexit-party-rallying-cry-70lc62g09

 

Nigel Farage says that he will capitalise on Labour’s divisions about a second Brexit referendum after Tom Watson, its deputy leader, accused his own party of “mealy mouthed” support for another public poll.

Mr Watson said yesterday that Labour would not defeat the Brexit Party if it looked like it half agreed with it.

Mr Farage said he would use Mr Watson’s words to target Labour’s heartlands.

“If Tom Watson thinks that the Labour Party going for a second referendum is going to solve everything I have got news for him, because if you go to south Wales or the Midlands or the north of England you find Labour constituencies with big Leave majorities. Five million people who voted Brexit also voted for Mr Corbyn in 2017.”

A second referendum would be a “total insult” to Labour voters who supported Brexit, Mr Farage said, adding: “I now intend to wholeheartedly target Labour lies and dishonesty.”

Nigel Farage says that he will capitalise on Labour’s divisions about a second Brexit referendum after Tom Watson, its deputy leader, accused his own party of “mealy mouthed” support for another public poll.

Mr Watson said yesterday that Labour would not defeat the Brexit Party if it looked like it half agreed with it.

Mr Farage said he would use Mr Watson’s words to target Labour’s heartlands.

“If Tom Watson thinks that the Labour Party going for a second referendum is going to solve everything I have got news for him, because if you go to south Wales or the Midlands or the north of England you find Labour constituencies with big Leave majorities. Five million people who voted Brexit also voted for Mr Corbyn in 2017.”

A second referendum would be a “total insult” to Labour voters who supported Brexit, Mr Farage said, adding: “I now intend to wholeheartedly target Labour lies and dishonesty.”

Watson is quite right according to the polls. Firstly the swing against leave in many constituencies means that they no longer have a Leave majority. 

Secondly the polls show again and again that Labour would win MORE votes overall if they came out for a second referendum. Although the bulk of Farage's support comes from ex Tories, it ALREADY includes the rabid Brexiteers that Labour are going to lose. On the other hand many voters who have left Labour because of Corbyn's fence sitting would come back to them. Labour MPs and members have been yelling this to him for ages, but he is deaf to anything but the 1970 ideology running round his useless head. 

Thirdly  is the EU elections (Electing people that many here idiotically describe as unelected) in the end who cares if Farage wins lots of EU seats, it will have absolutely no effect at all on Brexit, anything other than the softest option Brexit is dead in the water. 

 

Mr Farage targeting someone elses "Lies and dishonesty" funniest thing I've read on here for a while.

[Laughing Gravy]

8 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Watson is quite right according to the polls. Firstly the swing against leave in many constituencies means that they no longer have a Leave majority. 

Secondly the polls show again and again that Labour would win MORE votes overall if they came out for a second referendum. Although the bulk of Farage's support comes from ex Tories, it ALREADY includes the rabid Brexiteers that Labour are going to lose. On the other hand many voters who have left Labour because of Corbyn's fence sitting would come back to them. Labour MPs and members have been yelling this to him for ages, but he is deaf to anything but the 1970 ideology running round his useless head. 

Thirdly  is the EU elections (Electing people that many here idiotically describe as unelected) in the end who cares if Farage wins lots of EU seats, it will have absolutely no effect at all on Brexit, anything other than the softest option Brexit is dead in the water. 

 

Mr Farage targeting someone elses "Lies and dishonesty" funniest thing I've read on here for a while.

Well Watson can talk as his constituents voted leave considerably 68.18%. Another self serving politician. Who is lying and being dishonest.

By the way we love how polls are correct.

 

No people say the 5 council presidents are unelected. Totally different,.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Laughing Gravy

[wilcopops]

what has the EU ever done for you?

 

 

 

[bomber]

On 4/22/2019 at 11:10 AM, Laughing Gravy said:

It is not just defined to the Cons.

Labour also. A big shock coming the UK's way with regards to the two main parties. 'What you reap is what you Sow' is a suitable quote for these two parties.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/nigel-farage-uses-tom-watsons-words-as-brexit-party-rallying-cry-70lc62g09

 

Nigel Farage says that he will capitalise on Labour’s divisions about a second Brexit referendum after Tom Watson, its deputy leader, accused his own party of “mealy mouthed” support for another public poll.

Mr Watson said yesterday that Labour would not defeat the Brexit Party if it looked like it half agreed with it.

Mr Farage said he would use Mr Watson’s words to target Labour’s heartlands.

“If Tom Watson thinks that the Labour Party going for a second referendum is going to solve everything I have got news for him, because if you go to south Wales or the Midlands or the north of England you find Labour constituencies with big Leave majorities. Five million people who voted Brexit also voted for Mr Corbyn in 2017.”

A second referendum would be a “total insult” to Labour voters who supported Brexit, Mr Farage said, adding: “I now intend to wholeheartedly target Labour lies and dishonesty.”

Nigel Farage says that he will capitalise on Labour’s divisions about a second Brexit referendum after Tom Watson, its deputy leader, accused his own party of “mealy mouthed” support for another public poll.

Mr Watson said yesterday that Labour would not defeat the Brexit Party if it looked like it half agreed with it.

Mr Farage said he would use Mr Watson’s words to target Labour’s heartlands.

“If Tom Watson thinks that the Labour Party going for a second referendum is going to solve everything I have got news for him, because if you go to south Wales or the Midlands or the north of England you find Labour constituencies with big Leave majorities. Five million people who voted Brexit also voted for Mr Corbyn in 2017.”

A second referendum would be a “total insult” to Labour voters who supported Brexit, Mr Farage said, adding: “I now intend to wholeheartedly target Labour lies and dishonesty.”

great news,a party has been created to try and deliver brexit,its certain now it will be scrapped on halloween labour and the tories will have no option,farage knows its not happening otherwise to wouldnt of formed the party,lets wait and see what other clowns he can recruit,i fancy tommy and moggers,i think they will be a dream team????

[evadgib]

On 4/22/2019 at 4:32 PM, evadgib said:

The best news i've seen today came from Andrew Pierce suggesting Farage is set to unveil more high profile names this week which could well include Doris Karloff ????

Widdicombe has formally weighed in and will be interviewed on Sky shortly.

[jinners]

On 4/22/2019 at 4:12 PM, welovesundaysatspace said:

Cute. Those that spread lies and hatred for years are offended when people feel Schadenfreude about their failure. Be assured I will keep celebrating your failure regardless of my nationality. 

Sorry, I think you are more than a little weird. And schadenfreude, the guilty feeling of enjoying anothers discomfort hardly applies in this instance when you are making your anti British statements so clear does it? You keep taking life's little pleasure from wherever you get to find them. Odd little man

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, jinners said:

Sorry, I think you are more than a little weird. And schadenfreude, the guilty feeling of enjoying anothers discomfort hardly applies in this instance when you are making your anti British statements so clear does it? You keep taking life's little pleasure from wherever you get to find them. Odd little man

Anti Brexit. Not anti British. 

[Loiner]

Anti Brexit. Not anti British. 

As a non-Brit European and vociferous Europhile, why are you Anti-Brexit? Is it because you feel it is disadvantageous for your own nation in particular, or the EU in general?
Why do you feel so strongly about it that you protest so strongly to not allow the British to determine their own future?

[bomber]

5 minutes ago, Loiner said:

As a non-Brit European and vociferous Europhile, why are you Anti-Brexit? Is it because you feel it is disadvantageous for your own nation in particular, or the EU in general?
Why do you feel so strongly about it that you protest so strongly to not allow the British to determine their own future?

the British are determining their own future,brexit isnt happening,where have you been for the last 3 years

[Loiner]

the British are determining their own future,brexit isnt happening,where have you been for the last 3 years

The British electorate determined their future three years ago.
For the last 3 years I have witnessed their determination being usurped by the political establishment.

[malagateddy]

As a non-Brit European and vociferous Europhile, why are you Anti-Brexit? Is it because you feel it is disadvantageous for your own nation in particular, or the EU in general?
Why do you feel so strongly about it that you protest so strongly to not allow the British to determine their own future?

Easy..very worried that he/she will have to pay more and more tax to keep the eu subsidy junkie countries in their " luxurious " quality of life.!!!!!!

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bomber]

5 hours ago, Loiner said:

The British electorate determined their future three years ago.
For the last 3 years I have witnessed their determination being usurped by the political establishment.

elected sovereign MPs doing what they are paid to do and not a whiff of the EU interference which you are always insisting happens.

[Jip99]

9 hours ago, bomber said:

elected sovereign MPs doing what they are paid to do and not a whiff of the EU interference which you are always insisting happens.

 

 

Or rather NOT doing what they are paid to do.

 

Without the ill-advised general election it would have been done and dusted.

[welovesundaysatspace]

18 hours ago, Loiner said:

As a non-Brit European and vociferous Europhile, why are you Anti-Brexit?

I don’t have to be a Brit to be against bullies. 

 

Quote

Is it because you feel it is disadvantageous for your own nation in particular, or the EU in general?
Why do you feel so strongly about it that you protest so strongly to not allow the British to determine their own future?

I didn’t protest. 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by welovesundaysatspace

[Loiner]

46 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I don’t have to be a Brit to be against bullies. 

 

I didn’t protest. 

 

 

 

We have already established that the topic is not restricted to Brits only. The question is why a non-Brit poster is so anti-Brexit? Why do you think that the UK Leaving the EU makes it a bully and who is being bullied?

The poster doth protest too much. How much would it affect you?

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

We have already established that the topic is not restricted to Brits only. The question is why a non-Brit poster is so anti-Brexit? Why do you think that the UK Leaving the EU makes it a bully and who is being bullied?

I didn’t say that the UK is a bully. 

 

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

The poster doth protest too much. How much would it affect you?

No, I don’t. 

[malagateddy]

No, I don’t. 

Pity you very much having to pay much morevTAX to financially support all the eu subsidy junkie eu member states..[emoji2][emoji2][emoji2][emoji2]

Gonna watch some kickball now

Have a great day..you know it makes sense..cheers

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Loiner]

4 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I didn’t say that the UK is a bully. 

 

No, I don’t. 

Well who is the bully and who is being bullied? How does that make a non-Brit so anti-Brexit but still want the UK to Leave? Why would an EU national be anti-Brexit but still "...keep celebrating your failure..." at least "...until we are rid of you..."? Do you have some skin in the deal? 

 

Yeah, you do.

[wilcopops]

somebody mentioned they voted Brexit for the sake of their kids and grandkids......

 

 

[Scott]

Inflammatory post and reply removed.  

 

[Loiner]

elected sovereign MPs doing what they are paid to do and not a whiff of the EU interference which you are always insisting happens.

The Merkel/May surrender Treaty is a huge chunk of interference.
Extension of time to the exit date is also interference.

[soalbundy]

On 4/15/2019 at 8:49 AM, stephenterry said:

Leaving the EU at this point in time is nonsensical, as the disruption to the pound, economy, and businesses has been demonstrated by the Government, the Confederation of British Industry, and the Bank of England, to be far more devastating then initially thought.

 

What May should have done before enacting Article 50, was to have a PLAN. For example, examine and publish the pros and cons of leaving against staying, taking into account the effect on Scotland and NI, with a bottom financial line and a timetable to rectify all adverse effects on the population.

 

'What's best for Britain' ought to have been her mantra, which is more far more important than honouring the referendum result which was in favour of only 27% of the total population. It would have been the same principle had the remainers won the vote, because the same 'What's best for Britain' should have been the mantra - see para 2. 

 

Unfortunately, Brexit became the mantra, and I don't think anyone on here and elsewhere would say it's has been anyway near a satisfactory outcome, as the government and parliament have made a pig's ear of the negotiations resulting in a poor deal outcome that is just not workable. 

 

I surmise it will be remaining in the Customs Union  - or whatever political statement to agree that -that would push May's deal through, and IMO that's the least damaging to the economy, businesses and pound.

 

Even if that happens the UK is still in a mess, and I've seen sod-all how to rectify it during the transition period. The lack of a plan...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A plan ? That isn't British, we are a nation of muddlers, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, Britain relies on luck and lady luck has been very good to Britain in the last 300 years (not to the people though) Even the empire wasn't planned, it just sort of happened.

[bomber]

5 hours ago, Loiner said:

The Merkel/May surrender Treaty is a huge chunk of interference.
Extension of time to the exit date is also interference.

only in your head