Time to have my first A/C unit installed – looking for advice

[Thainesss]

1 minute ago, Fruit Trader said:

Oh yes they do. Fixed appliances bla bla bla.

 

Can you cite this code for me? 

[Fruit Trader]

4 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

The reason they add those breakers on the wall is because they retro-fit the aircon and piggy back off the mains power. If there is an available breaker in the breaker box then you dont need a second wall mounted breaker. 

I suggest you bring yourself up to speed with local isolation.

[Fruit Trader]

Just now, Thainesss said:

 

Can you cite this code for me? 

See post #32

[Thainesss]

2 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

I suggest you bring yourself up to speed with local isolation.

 

Why do people on this forum insist on being like this? If there is a Thai code that states that air conditionings need to have local isolation and you know about it, then why not post it for everyone here. 

 

Seems to me you just want to bicker, and if you want to have 2 breakers on 1 circuit for one appliance, by all means go for it. 

[Fruit Trader]

7 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Why do people on this forum insist on being like this? If there is a Thai code that states that air conditionings need to have local isolation and you know about it, then why not post it for everyone here. 

 

Seems to me you just want to bicker, and if you want to have 2 breakers on 1 circuit for one appliance, by all means go for it. 

I did not mention Thai codes. I said its why so many codes specify local isolation and used it as reference.

 

You are now taking the discussion into "the need for local isolation" which was never mentioned.

 

Read the posts carefully before using keyboard.

 

PS

One more time. Bring yourself up to speed with local isolation.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Fruit Trader

[Thainesss]

1 hour ago, Fruit Trader said:

I did not mention Thai codes. I said its why so many codes specify local isolation and used it as reference.

 

You are now taking the discussion into "the need for local isolation" which was never mentioned.

 

Read the posts carefully before using keyboard.

 

What the hell? We are in Thailand and you arent talking about Thai codes? You didnt even reference anything in any of your posts you just stated some made-up garbage without citing any relevant codes neither for Thailand or anywhere else. 

 

And then you have the audacity to spin it like im the one driving the discussion into "the need for local isolation" when you are the one who invented it in the first place? 

 

<removed>

[CharlieH]

Flame post removed.

[BritManToo]

12 hours ago, MrScratch said:

Is it normal to request one of these types of mounting options when talking about the installation cost , and does any one type have an advantage. The other thing Ive noticed looking at other out side A/C units , is some have the pipe work enclosed in white / grey plastic trunking to hide it.

 

Less creatures crawl in the wall mounted units (just my opinion).

I didn't bother with plastic trunking, the normal white tape they use matched as well as anything else they could have used. My house and fuse box already had fuses and wiring already installed for two air-con units (and two shower heaters), no extra breakers, just connected it to the already dangling wires.

 

Had mine over 5 years, when it stops getting cool, I pull the filters out of the inner unit, brush off the dust then put them back (usually every 6 months). No need to have the yearly 'you need more gas' scam run on you from the 'service engineers'.

Edited April 20, 2019 by BritManToo

[Thainesss]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

No need to have the yearly 'you need more gas' scam run on you from the 'service engineers'.

 

You're talking about the cleaning\service they do that costs about 500-600 baht?

 

That's a very common and necessary maintenance procedure that needs to be done. It's not a Thailand invented scam it's done almost everywhere. I've even been in work camps where it's done on a schedule for hundreds of units. 

 

You've gotta pressure wash all the crud out of the units indoors and out so they stay at 100%. Otherwise they can't dissipate heat & cool the air as efficiently. 

[gunderhill]

My advice, if  at  all possible do  it yourself,  you can easily  hang  the compressor and inside parts and you'll save yourself a whole lot of handprints and bodged  holes, smashed  ceilings from them hitting it with ladders  etc, just get them to connect the  pipes and watch them even try and bodge  that, do the electrics  yourself with the right colour and thickness  cables, at the least run them to the machine yourself all THREE and let them connect  them watching all the time as they wait  to tell you they dont need  the earth.

[Fruit Trader]

13 hours ago, MrScratch said:

 

Thanks for the advice , the double pole switch is now on my list . Just thinking about it , the power cuts , voltage fluctuation and spikes only seem to happen during the day time and never at night.

 

 

 

 

I am pleased that you are able to see the advantages of having convenient local isolation near to the air conditioners. We isolate all AC's that are not in use to reduce risk of surge damage and unnecessary use of standby. The local isolation arrangement avoids messing around at the distribution panel and is greatly appreciated by the guy who cleans the units.

 

This local isolation is not there to provide additional over current protection. It is there to isolate the AC from both poles of the supply which is not possible by operating their individual breakers back at the distribution board.
 

[ujayujay]

Since 6 Months I use 3 Daikin Inverter ACs on around 25°. 35m2= 18BTU, 24m2= 12BTU, 18m2= 9BTU. Works perfect. Lowered Electricity cost 58% compared to my old York Units.

[Thainesss]

13 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

This local isolation is not there to provide additional over current protection. I

The picture you posted was of a 30 amp double pole breaker, not an "isolation switch". 

 

Are you now saying that cutting the L feed is electrical unsafe on a dedicated circuit running only 1 applinance? 

 

If that was the case then every single breaker in the home must be a double pole breaker, but they arent, because it is, in fact, electrically safe to switch the L side only unless you're working in the breaker box itself.

 

 

[Fruit Trader]

Just now, Thainesss said:

The picture you posted was of a 30 amp double pole breaker, not an "isolation switch". 

 

Are you now saying that cutting the L feed is electrical unsafe on a dedicated circuit running only 1 applinance? 

 

If that was the case then every single breaker in the home must be a double pole breaker, but they arent, because it is, in fact, electrically safe to switch the L side only unless you're working in the breaker box itself.

 

 

The breaker is acting as double pole isolator with value chosen above protective device back at the distribution point. 

 

No mention of safety level when breaking only the live conductor. Sorry about that.

 

 

 

 

 

[MrScratch]

1 hour ago, gunderhill said:

My advice, if  at  all possible do  it yourself,  you can easily  hang  the compressor and inside parts and you'll save yourself a whole lot of handprints and bodged  holes, smashed  ceilings from them hitting it with ladders  etc, just get them to connect the  pipes and watch them even try and bodge  that, do the electrics  yourself with the right colour and thickness  cables, at the least run them to the machine yourself all THREE and let them connect  them watching all the time as they wait  to tell you they dont need  the earth.

When I first started to think about having A/C installed at my house the thought of watching the installation people carry out the work made me feel uneasy . I am physically fit and active and do as much as I can my self in the way of house maintenance . So for a brief moment the idea of purchasing all the required A/C equipment / parts and assorted sundries my self and then install every thing in its correct physical position and run the power cable from the CB board to the A/C , then just getting an A/C engineer to come to the house to fit the pipe work then test the system, did cross my mind .

 

Any more thoughts on that scenario

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fruit Trader]

24 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

The picture you posted was of a 30 amp double pole breaker, not an "isolation switch". 

This should lower the stress level a notch or two.

 

 

[gunderhill]

6 minutes ago, MrScratch said:

When I first started to think about having A/C installed at my house the thought of watching the installation people carry out the work made me feel uneasy . I am physically fit and active and do as much as I can my self in the way of house maintenance . So for a brief moment the idea of purchasing all the required A/C equipment / parts and assorted sundries my self and then install every thing in its correct physical position and run the power cable from the CB board to the A/C , then just getting an A/C engineer to come to the house to fit the pipe work then test the system, did cross my mind .

 

Any more thoughts on that scenario

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its  not too difficult to do, spirit  level, drill, check the walls  for cable s pipes underneath, even drill thru the wall yourself because they sure as hell  will try smashing thru anyway they can and they will protect NOTHING of  your furniture floor  coverings  etc, Id  fit  all the parts and run the trunking for the pipes and then just  go walk round and find an aircon  shop.Its whatI did after installing compressor and trunking and  cutting the  hole thru the wall as I dont have the equipment to connect the pipes.

I ran cables thru my ceiling from a vacant slot on my fuseboard  of the right ratings of course.

Hole  cutters and a drill  will get thru the wall, Ive sen them just use the  roatary  hammer drill and bodge a hole in, awful way and mess  and then throw in a load of  filler.

You can do all that stuff  then let someone else  connect it.

[Grusa]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

didn't bother with plastic trunking,

If you don't use the trunking, the tape wrapping will degrade through ultra-violet light, exposing the insulation and cabling, which will also degrade. Admittedly it takes several years.

[Crossy]

14 minutes ago, MrScratch said:

Any more thoughts on that scenario

 

Do you have the tools required, a decent SDS drill, 50mm diamond core-bit (do you really want to chain drill and chisel the hole), ladders etc etc. along with an assistant (despite what others say the units are heavy and awkward).

 

We had all our A/C units installed by HomePro, the guys had the tools, made little mess (and cleaned up) and did a generally decent job. I had already run 3-core to the indoor unit locations and yes, they hooked up the ground without prompting.

 

[gunderhill]

14 hours ago, MrScratch said:

some units are mounted on wall brackets that lift the unit high up off the ground , the other option Ive seen is where the out side A/C unit sits on a floor mounting bracket or some sort of metal box frame .

Best kept  out of the sun, many just  too  lazy to  mount on the wall or will say they dont have the brackets  which are  dirt  cheap. Mine are  high up under the eaves, get about 1  hours  sun at 7-8am I also used longer  bolts and  more of them, theyll often use  as  little as they can get away  with.

[MrScratch]

2 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

Its  not too difficult to do, spirit  level, drill, check the walls  for cable s pipes underneath, even drill thru the wall yourself because they sure as hell  will try smashing thru anyway they can and they will protect NOTHING of  your furniture floor  coverings  etc, Id  fit  all the parts and run the trunking for the pipes and then just  go walk round and find an aircon  shop.Its whatI did after installing compressor and trunking and  cutting the  hole thru the wall as I dont have the equipment to connect the pipes.

I ran cables thru my ceiling from a vacant slot on my fuseboard  of the right ratings of course.

Hole  cutters and a drill  will get thru the wall, Ive sen them just use the  roatary  hammer drill and bodge a hole in, awful way and mess  and then throw in a load of  filler.

You can do all that stuff  then let someone else  connect it.

I'm sure I could do all of that

[gunderhill]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Do you have the tools required, a decent SDS drill, 50mm diamond core-bit (do you really want to chain drill and chisel the hole) etc etc. along with an assistant (despite what others say the units are heavy and awkward).

 

We had all our A/C units installed by HomePro, the guys had the tools, made little mess (and cleaned up) and did a generally decent job. I had already run 3-core to the indoor unit locations and yes, they hooked up the ground without prompting.

 

My Tesco approved  fitters had almost  nothing, used the wrong colour  cables and said I didn't need an earth, at best its hit n miss, I sent them packing, did it myself after seeing the  ensuing nightmare.

[MrScratch]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

 

Do you have the tools required, a decent SDS drill, 50mm diamond core-bit (do you really wand to chain drill and chisel the hole) etc etc. along with an assistant (despite what others say the units are heavy and awkward).

 

We had all our A/C units installed by HomePro, the guys had the tools, made little mess (and cleaned up) and did a generally decent job. I had already run 3-core to the indoor unit locations and yes, they hooked up the ground without prompting.

 

 

Tools I have a lot of , so the units are heavy and awkward and I will have no physical help available other than my dear Thai wife ???? I am certain I could run the electrical cable from the CB board to the Units . One question - does the 2x2.5 flat + earth cable run from the CB board straight to the outside A/C unit then back into the indoor unit ?

[MrScratch]

4 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

My Tesco approved  fitters had almost  nothing, used the wrong colour  cables and said I didn't need an earth, at best its hit n miss, I sent them packing, did it myself after seeing the  ensuing nightmare.

Now you have me getting even more worried ☹️

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, MrScratch said:

One question - does the 2x2.5 flat + earth cable run from the CB board straight to the outside A/C unit then back into the indoor unit ?

 

Just run it to the indoor location, the link cable is part of the installation and runs inside the trunking with the pipes.

 

Exactly what's needed in there will be in the installation instructions.

 

[MrScratch]

So it looks like the route to take regarding the purchasing and installation of 2 A/C units would be this .......

 

1. Decided the manufacture of the A/C – Looks like Daikin is the way to go

 

2. Decide the BTU size – looks like I will go for Room -A = 13,000 BTU Room - B = 9,200 BTU

 

3. Decide the outside A/C units position – I will go for the 2 outside A/C units mounted on brackets high up under the house eaves

 

 

4. Decide between Inverter / Standard non inverter

 

Here I’m still not sure taking into consideration the running cost Vs the regular house voltage power cuts and voltage spikes + the possible cost of additional AVR equipment .

 

5. Confirm about the Daikin warranty and what it actually covers and for how long , and especially if the unit is damaged in some way due to lightening / power cuts / mains voltage fluctuations and voltage spikes. I know from past experience that I may just get a Thai smile from the A/C sales person and the phrase , no problem.

 

Would installing a standard non Inverter A/C unit even though the electrical running costs may be higher than an Inverter A/C unit, be better in the knowledge that a standard A/C unit would be less susceptible to the house power cuts , voltage fluctuation and spikes.

 

Thought , would Inverter A/C units run quieter than normal non Inverter units ?

[MrScratch]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Just run it to the indoor location, the link cable is part of the installation and runs inside the trunking with the pipes.

 

Exactly what's needed in there will be in the installation instructions.

 

Thanks for that

[moonseeker]

Have tried out and installed roughly 100 aircons of all major brands. 

Just did my new 90sqm condo. CENTRAL AIR INVERTER. 1 unit ca. 9000 BTU running 24/7. Keeps entire condo dry at around 45% and at 28C. I installed 2 more 12,000 BTU for fast and cold... Mistake... 2 more 9000 would have served perfectly. I have double glazing and live under a foamed roof. Super good prices on these units. Only ones that compare are Panasonic at a higher price so. Have them in another large condo. Pleased but only Central for me now. Electric bill ca. 2,400 month... Good luck.... MS>

[donim]

21 hours ago, MrScratch said:

the outside walls get very hot to the touch both during the day time and night . The A/C will only normally be used at night time when the windows will be closed . The ceiling has no insulation above it and the loft area gets very hot.

 

It will reduce the cost and saves the AC for working too hard

(like it is cooling a room with open window)

to invest a little more in insulation.

 

Put mats with reflection foil on the ceilings.   

 

Here I do have square mats for the square ceiling panels. 60x60cm. A big difference. Even on cloudy days. It is the radiation from the sun, that even goes trough clouds, which heats up your ceiling and tables, everything horizontal.

Insulation for ceilings come in many forms, rolls, square mats, panels. It depends on the situation at your place on which one to use.

 

Now with this hot season the walls are hot too, I don't have but I plan to do is put inside drywall with spacers on the concrete walls and as Crossy already wrote is try to get shading on the outside walls. Plants, trees, extended rooftops, plints mounted on a distance, many ways to reach that goal.

 

Consider reposition your frigde.

 

Rgds,

 

 

[khunPer]

21 hours ago, MrScratch said:

Any advice or suggestions would be helpful before I visit an A/C shop to check out the price of each A/C unit and the installation cost .

I have (very) bad voltage, but very good experience with inverter aircons, using less power (I use Mitsubishi "Mr. Slim"). However, you'll need a phase protector and a magnetic switch that switch off the aircon unit(s) if voltage goes below, or above, 15% of 220 volt, i.e. the units will work from around 190 volt to 250 volt. You can make different settings for both low and high voltage, but maximum is 18% on the units I know. Cut-off time can be set from 1 minute to 5 minutes.

 

 

Originally I tried to use a number of 1000W automatic voltage regulators, but that didn't work very well with the unstable power, where I live.