Good Wine why is it banned in Thailand

[Mark P]

Good quality wine in Thailand is practically speaking banned unless you are very rich.  This is due to the taxes and how they are applied to imported wine here.  400% of the base cost of wine in the country of origin.  The wine that is widely available is often poorly storred lowering the quality further.   Example, picture 1. - Faustino VII a white Spanish table wine that retails in Spain for circ 3.5 euros or 125 THB.  Picture 2. Faustino VII with Thailand import label now a yellow Spanish table wine of highly dubious taste if opened for 799 THB on sale in Villa Market Pattaya.  This is a wine I have seen 100s to times in supermarkets in Spain and have never seen a yellow bottle on sale before.

 

Wine is accepted globally as an intergral part of quality cuisine.  In Thailand the obscene levels of tax on wine make Thailand a desert when it comes to quality dinning, enjoying a nice bottle of wine with your meal of for its own sake with friends.  To put my assertion into perspective, a nice bottle of wine can be purchased in many European countries for circa 20 Euros, say 40 Euros in a restaturant (1,500 THB).   In Thailand a Faustino VII type wine will commonly attract the same price tag with a meal.  As things stand a quality wine, which is not normally available, might cost 9,000 THB using the same mark-ups.  So why drink wine when 9,000 would buy 5 bottles of Jonnie Walker Black in a good Thai restaturant.  Clearly any argument that the tax is to discourage alchohol consumption on health grounds is false.  Taxing good wine out of Thailand is a very poor choice and in no way makes Thailand a more attractive destination.            

 

Looking at the tax levels being protectionist; Thailand does not and is not likely ever to produce good quality wines.  Thailand has a couple of winerys, one near Pattaya and one further north.  The wine from the winery near Pattaya is palatable (as opposed to good), but they only have five wines.   

 

As I see it The Thai government needs to rethink how it taxes imported wine and importers need to rethink how they store the product in transit and on arrival.  If Thailand took their current tax take from wine and divided by total bottles imported (rather than taxing bottles based on price at origin) then higher quality wine could be brought at lower cost.  More would be imported and sold as quality improved increasing total tax revenue.  Thailand would become more attractive to visitors and residents alike.  

 

 

 

[ratcatcher]

Good wine is not banned in Thailand. Villa market Soi 33 Phrom Phong, Bangkok has a huge selection of good wines upstairs and in many of its branches. Foodland too. 

The Thai government has taxed wine to make rich Thais pay more tax. Poorer Thais don't drink much wine as is evidenced by their eating and drinking habits in restaurants.

Westerners traditionally drink wine with a meal, Thais will drink rum whisky of varying qualities, all the way up to a superb Johnnie Walker Black.

The Thais won't rethink their taxes on imported wines, because the buyers can already afford and are willing to pay such high prices.

 

[from the home of CC]

Cutting booze prices isn't going to raise tourism numbers. Being an addictive substance they know people will either pay or drink something cheaper. They don't care about the whine about wine..

[Lacessit]

Thailand could probably make decent wine if it imported some oenologists and technology to do it. Thai wines have too much residual sugars, as winemakers here don't seem to have any experience in dealing with stuck ferments.

[marcusarelus]

Australia and Chili have favorable country status in Thailand and the wines are 65% less than other countries.  I'd suggest you get educated.  Below cheap and decent.

[RJRS1301]

  On 4/21/2019 at 5:41 AM, marcusarelus said:

Australia and Chili have favorable country status in Thailand and the wines are 65% less than other countries.  I'd suggest you get educated. 

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My experience of attempting to get even a "middle" quality Australian wine have been extremely frustrating and the prices charged are astronomical by any standard

[mauGR1]

I'm not questioning the qualities of Chilean wines which i tried in Thailand, some Australian, French, Italian, and Argentinian among the others were decent too.

What i am questioning is the exorbitant price, but it has already being discussed to death, and we can imagine the reason for that.

[marcusarelus]

  On 4/21/2019 at 5:49 AM, RJRS1301 said:

My experience of attempting to get even a "middle" quality Australian wine have been extremely frustrating and the prices charged are astronomical by any standard

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Jacobs creek vintage is about $2 more expensive than Singapore or USA.  Is that astronomical? 

[kkerry]

  On 4/21/2019 at 5:41 AM, marcusarelus said:

Australia and Chili have favorable country status in Thailand and the wines are 65% less than other countries.  I'd suggest you get educated. 

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Four and five litre cask wines that retail in Australia for under fifteen dollars...in Thailand they sell for the equivalent $50-60...

[marcusarelus]

  On 4/21/2019 at 5:58 AM, mauGR1 said:

I'm not questioning the qualities of Chilean wines which i tried in Thailand, some Australian, French, Italian, and Argentinian among the others were decent too.

What i am questioning is the exorbitant price, but it has already being discussed to death, and we can imagine the reason for that.

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Try Makro.  500 to 700 baht.  It's a couple of dollars more expensive than home. 

[marcusarelus]

  On 4/21/2019 at 6:00 AM, kkerry said:

Four and five litre cask wines that retail in Australia for under fifteen dollars...in Thailand they sell for the equivalent $50-60...

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500 to 600 baht.  Lotus and Makro.  How much at home? 

[mauGR1]

  On 4/21/2019 at 6:00 AM, marcusarelus said:

Try Makro.  500 to 700 baht.  It's a couple of dollars more expensive than home. 

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Around my village in Italy i can buy good wine for 70 Baht a liter, but i almost quit drinking, so it's not that important to me.

A Singha or a Beer Lao from time to time will do for me.

[xylophone]

I have posted many many times on numerous threads about the wine here in Thailand and how and where to source it at a reasonable price.

 

No use comparing it to prices in other countries, because it will just get you frustrated and you can't do anything about the taxes applied here anyway.

 

As someone else has posted, wines from Chile can be bought at under 500 baht a bottle and I buy two or three good Aussie reds for the same sort of price, it's just a case of looking for them.

 

Places like Villa Market are normally expensive, however I noticed just a few days ago that they have a Cabernet Sauvignon on offer from Chile at 409 baht a bottle. In addition I have contacted several importers and distributors and I buy a very good Italian red which normally retails at well over 800 baht, for 580 baht and likewise with a good Aussie Shiraz at 420 baht.

 

Occasionally the big stores have clear outs and there are some very good wines to be had at extremely low prices.

 

I have collected and drunk top quality wines for 50 years or thereabouts and although the quality of the wines that I drank back then are just not available at the right price here, one has to seek alternatives and/or adjust one's tastes accordingly, within reason of course!

 

[kkerry]

  On 4/21/2019 at 6:03 AM, marcusarelus said:

500 to 600 baht.  Lotus and Makro.  How much at home? 

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135 baht... ($5.95)

 

https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_902874/jacob-s-creek-classic-shiraz

 

 

[RJRS1301]

  On 4/21/2019 at 5:59 AM, marcusarelus said:

Jacobs creek vintage is about $2 more expensive than Singapore or USA.  Is that astronomical? 

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Jacobs Creek, that is not even medium quality

[RJRS1301]

  On 4/21/2019 at 6:03 AM, marcusarelus said:

500 to 600 baht.  Lotus and Makro.  How much at home? 

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No more than $7 aud

[xylophone]

  On 4/21/2019 at 6:10 AM, kkerry said:

135 baht... ($5.95)

 

https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_902874/jacob-s-creek-classic-shiraz

 

 

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Yes it is an extremely cheap "drinker" back in Oz or NZ, however I won't buy it here because I do believe it is not the same quality as it used to be, and I can find comparable wines here, quite a bit cheaper.

[marcusarelus]

  On 4/21/2019 at 6:10 AM, kkerry said:

135 baht... ($5.95)

 

https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_902874/jacob-s-creek-classic-shiraz

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Ok next question would you expecting shipping 6000 miles for free?  So maybe look at the price in Singapore or USA?

[marcusarelus]

  On 4/21/2019 at 6:18 AM, RJRS1301 said:

Jacobs Creek, that is not even medium quality

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6 February 2019: Jacob’s Creek has been ranked Australia’s 8th Strongest Brand in Brand Finance’s Australia 100 2019 report, climbing 12 places up from last year. Brand Strength, which is defined by the power of the brand over and above the level of investment. In addition to Brand Strength, it’s Brand Value increase of 46 percent is in the top 10 biggest value increases of the year.

 

A Top 100 result at the Sydney International Wine Competition comes hot on the heels of JACOB’S CREEK™ becoming the World’s Most Awarded Winery1

[marcusarelus]

  On 4/21/2019 at 6:20 AM, xylophone said:

Yes it is an extremely cheap "drinker" back in Oz or NZ, however I won't buy it here because I do believe it is not the same quality as it used to be, and I can find comparable wines here, quite a bit cheaper.

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I can understand that.  Don't risk 500 baht on the chance you might like it.  Too risky. 

[RJRS1301]

  On 4/21/2019 at 6:22 AM, marcusarelus said:

6 February 2019: Jacob’s Creek has been ranked Australia’s 8th Strongest Brand in Brand Finance’s Australia 100 2019 report, climbing 12 places up from last year. Brand Strength, which is defined by the power of the brand over and above the level of investment. In addition to Brand Strength, it’s Brand Value increase of 46 percent is in the top 10 biggest value increases of the year.

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Still does not make it a quality product, just because it has brand strength, does not mean it has quality' just means it sells and was a good investment for the company concerned.

Tribant sold millions of cars, had brand strength, not quality

[xylophone]

  On 4/21/2019 at 5:41 AM, Lacessit said:

Thailand could probably make decent wine if it imported some oenologists and technology to do it. Thai wines have too much residual sugars, as winemakers here don't seem to have any experience in dealing with stuck ferments.

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Apparently it does make a couple of reasonable red wines, however I have never tasted them despite trying, and the best that I could possibly say about them was that they were lacking body and depth.

 

It's possible that one of the problems with grapes in climates like this is that the cold weather is often needed to facilitate "bud set" on the vine, so a change in season will help with the final quality of the wine, and as has been suggested, perhaps Thais don't really want to learn from others, even though I do believe that some winemakers from other countries have come here to try and help with the wine industry, so who knows where it will go..........but again, the climate will not help their cause.

[marcusarelus]

  On 4/21/2019 at 6:24 AM, RJRS1301 said:

Still does not make it a quality product, just because it has brand strength, does not mean it has quality' just means it sells and was a good investment for the company concerned.

Tribant sold millions of cars, had brand strength, not quality

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A Top 100 result at the Sydney International Wine Competition comes hot on the heels of JACOB’S CREEK™ becoming the World’s Most Awarded Winery.

 

http://www.jacobscreek.com/sg/news/a-hundred-to-one-a-top-100-result-at-the-sydney-international-wine-competition

[kkerry]

  On 4/21/2019 at 6:21 AM, marcusarelus said:

Ok next question would you expecting shipping 6000 miles for free?  So maybe look at the price in Singapore or USA?

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https://www.totalwine.com/wine/red-wine/syrah-shiraz/jacobs-creek-shiraz/p/92245750?s=1108&igrules=true

 

Now, I can't say it is exactly the same Shiraz as the one you pictured (no Classic on the label) but the USA price for a Jacobs Creek Shiraz... $5.95 or 190 baht... 7,500 miles shipping...

[LomSak27]

Looks like they have your favorite holiday special at Tesco’s 

 

[RJRS1301]

  On 4/21/2019 at 6:28 AM, marcusarelus said:

A Top 100 result at the Sydney International Wine Competition comes hot on the heels of JACOB’S CREEK™ becoming the World’s Most Awarded Winery.

 

http://www.jacobscreek.com/sg/news/a-hundred-to-one-a-top-100-result-at-the-sydney-international-wine-competition

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Well I hope you enjoy the taste, but it leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[RAZZELL]

You can buy this:

 

https://www.majestic.co.uk/wines/alamos-cabernet-sauvignon-40018

 

Which retails in the UK for around £8-10 a bottle (320-400 baht).

 

In Thailand around 905 baht here : 

 

https://www.iwsthailand.com/alamoscabernetsauvignon/

 

The branch at Paseo Mall sometimes have deals and I have paid 30% less.

 

BTW in Thailand has a cork instead of a screw top ????

 

RAZZ

[giddyup]

  On 4/21/2019 at 6:21 AM, marcusarelus said:

Ok next question would you expecting shipping 6000 miles for free?  So maybe look at the price in Singapore or USA?

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For the price difference I expect it occupies a seat in business class.

[JimmyTheMook]

No matter how good or expensive the wine, the storage and transportation habits here are poor - most wine is kept in such high temperatures during transit it's spoiled upon being consumed.

 

[Happystance]

  On 4/21/2019 at 6:21 AM, marcusarelus said:

So maybe look at the price in Singapore or USA?

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Every Trader Joe's across the USA sells organic red wine for $4 USD while you brag about $20 garbage wine. Paris- $5 organics and dozens of decent options for $3. 

The prices in Thailand for wine are just stupid.