Good Wine why is it banned in Thailand

[RJRS1301]

5 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Not really. The security dooverlacky simply places boxed wine up there with the likes of baby formula and Brands Essence of Chicken.

No the security thingylockey is to STOP people buying it an having a nasty experience on the Palate ????

[marcusarelus]

This thread has paid off handsomely.  The overwhelming majority of people reading it have rushed out like myself and bought a bottle of Aussie red available in Thailand. 

 

I bought the one for 300 baht with the kangaroo on the label.  Not bad.  Dined on ham steak, hash browns, and mulberry red eye gravy while listening to Sofi Tukker sing Drinkee.  The wine was great.  I also used my new wine pump/stopper to keep it fresh till the morrow. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by marcusarelus

[Odysseus123]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

This thread has paid off handsomely.  The overwhelming majority of people reading it have rushed out like myself and bought a bottle of Aussie red available in Thailand. 

 

I bought the one for 300 baht with the kangaroo on the label.  Not bad.  Dined on ham steak, hash browns, and mulberry red eye gravy while listening to Sofi Tukker sing Drinkee.  The wine was great.  I also used my new wine pump/stopper to keep it fresh till the morrow. 

The wine costs 88 Baht (max) in Australia.

 

Superb,if rather cheeky, engine degreaser with just a hint of footrot....

[xylophone]

11 hours ago, kkerry said:

In Australia $15.99 (360 baht) is the most you would expect to pay for a five litre (Berri Estates) cask wine at most discount liquor merchants... saw this in a supermarket Friday... 1,639 baht ($73)... things are

I also think you'll find, if you look carefully around the cask, that it has added fruit juice, i.e. labelled Fruit Wine, probably somewhere in small print.

[xylophone]

12 hours ago, Happystance said:

That's a lot of people given that natural corks remain the leader of corkages worldwide. 

 

You plastic cork-loving people remain in the minority, where you belong.

 

That post you love so much doesn't address the toxins getting into the wine via the plastics tho... ????

The subject of corks and screw tops actually does lead onto the fact that over the past few years, "plastic corks" have been tried, mostly in the cheap wines.

 

Outside of that, "composite corks" have been tried where small pieces of cork are compressed with some sort of glue and these are used again in the cheaper wines.

 

You are right, the use of real cork is still the number one method of sealing bottles of wine worldwide, even though as I said in my post, the Stelvin closure, and its clones, are catching on fast.

 

One can understand the reluctance of winemakers to substitute real cork, when they and their ancestors have for hundreds of years used cork to seal the bottles of wine, so changing from that is a hard ask.

 

In addition there is the age-old tradition of seeing the cork pulled and sometimes hearing the "pop" and things like this don't disappear overnight.

 

What has actually pushed the wine industry to look at these other closures is the fact that apart from mild cork taint, which most of the time will clear if the wine is decanted, there is another form of taint and this is the result of a chemical called trichloroanisole and this cannot be cleared and really does spoil the wine, no matter what you do to it.

 

It is thought to be the result of something in the harvested cork reacting with the bleaching/sterilising of the cork, which produces this chemical.

 

Indeed it did become very widespread at one time and I read of one Italian winemaker who was suing the cork producer because he stated that up to 90% of his vintage had been spoiled by tainted corks (trichloroanisole).

 

Not only that, as I mentioned previously, keeping a bottle of wine for a few years to enjoy later and then opening it to find it had been spoiled is one hell of a downer, especially if people are gathered round the dinner table waiting for that special moment of tasting a fine wine!!

 

So the Stelvin closure and it's like were born and one can see why. On the subject of the actual material inside of the closure, well some of them do use a type of plastic, whereas others use something which is lined with a foil, which is supposedly neutral and won't interact with the wine.

 

As a matter of interest, those New Zealand winemakers who have used the screw top or Stelvin closure and have kept their wines for quite a few years have commented on the fact that the white wines seem to keep "fresher" with this method of sealing the bottle.

 

 

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, xylophone said:

The subject of corks and screw tops actually does lead onto the fact that over the past few years, "plastic corks" have been tried, mostly in the cheap wines.

 

Outside of that, "composite corks" have been tried where small pieces of cork are compressed with some sort of glue and these are used again in the cheaper wines.

 

You are right, the use of real cork is still the number one method of sealing bottles of wine worldwide, even though as I said in my post, the Stelvin closure, and its clones, are catching on fast.

 

One can understand the reluctance of winemakers to substitute real cork, when they and their ancestors have for hundreds of years used cork to seal the bottles of wine, so changing from that is a hard ask.

 

In addition there is the age-old tradition of seeing the cork pulled and sometimes hearing the "pop" and things like this don't disappear overnight.

 

What has actually pushed the wine industry to look at these other closures is the fact that apart from mild cork taint, which most of the time will clear if the wine is decanted, there is another form of taint and this is the result of a chemical called trichloroanisole and this cannot be cleared and really does spoil the wine, no matter what you do to it.

 

It is thought to be the result of something in the harvested cork reacting with the bleaching/sterilising of the cork, which produces this chemical.

 

Indeed it did become very widespread at one time and I read of one Italian winemaker who was suing the cork producer because he stated that up to 90% of his vintage had been spoiled by tainted corks (trichloroanisole).

 

Not only that, as I mentioned previously, keeping a bottle of wine for a few years to enjoy later and then opening it to find it had been spoiled is one hell of a downer, especially if people are gathered round the dinner table waiting for that special moment of tasting a fine wine!!

 

So the Stelvin closure and it's like were born and one can see why. On the subject of the actual material inside of the closure, well some of them do use a type of plastic, whereas others use something which is lined with a foil, which is supposedly neutral and won't interact with the wine.

 

As a matter of interest, those New Zealand winemakers who have used the screw top or Stelvin closure and have kept their wines for quite a few years have commented on the fact that the white wines seem to keep "fresher" with this method of sealing the bottle.

 

 

I took my cork out and resealed it with a vacuum pump and a silicon stopper.

[kkerry]

43 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I also think you'll find, if you look carefully around the cask, that it has added fruit juice, i.e. labelled Fruit Wine, probably somewhere in small print.

 

I didn't take a closer look at the fine print as I get a bit nervous handling expensive wine...

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

This thread has paid off handsomely.  The overwhelming majority of people reading it have rushed out like myself and bought a bottle of Aussie red available in Thailand. 

 

I bought the one for 300 baht with the kangaroo on the label.  Not bad.  Dined on ham steak, hash browns, and mulberry red eye gravy while listening to Sofi Tukker sing Drinkee.  The wine was great.  I also used my new wine pump/stopper to keep it fresh till the morrow. 

Life's good here, eh?

 

And to think that some want to move to Cambodia.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Odysseus123 said:

The wine costs 88 Baht (max) in Australia.

 

Superb,if rather cheeky, engine degreaser with just a hint of footrot....

No it doesn't.  It's rather good and well worth the 300 baht.  I drank the wine in my wife's house which cost half of what it would in Australia and will be paid off in 2 years - total 10 year mortgage.  All in all the wine and expenses involved in living and drinking it I figure I save about 800,000 baht a year.  So if I subtract 88 baht from 300 and subtract that from the total.  I have saved 799,788 by drinking that wine in Thailand. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by marcusarelus

[faraday]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

This thread has paid off handsomely.  The overwhelming majority of people reading it have rushed out like myself and bought a bottle of Aussie red available in Thailand. 

 

I bought the one for 300 baht with the kangaroo on the label.  Not bad.  Dined on ham steak, hash browns, and mulberry red eye gravy while listening to Sofi Tukker sing Drinkee.  The wine was great.  I also used my new wine pump/stopper to keep it fresh till the morrow. 

Do you have picture of the label please?

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, faraday said:

Do you have picture of the label please?

I already posted it.  Go up.  Look for the kangaroo. 

[xylophone]

30 minutes ago, faraday said:

Do you have picture of the label please?

There you go..........and I posted about these wines many times on various wine threads here over the years as IMO they are OK wines for the price and will go esp well with pizza and pasta etc as they tend to be a little on the '"lighter" side.

 

PS. They were 349 a bottle and I preferred the Shiraz.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by xylophone

[rickudon]

11 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

And what wine would that be?  Can't remember?  Figures.......

Of course i remember. Just as a check, looked yesterday in the supermarket, only had a few wines (this is Udon) so my preferred wine not available, but Montclair was 435 baht, Bell's scotch whiskey 395 baht. I think i can get a lot more pleasure form the whisky!

 

In part it is the principle, I refuse to pay extortionate taxes. I think the Yanks thought that as well, 220 years ago ....

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Of course i remember. Just as a check, looked yesterday in the supermarket, only had a few wines (this is Udon) so my preferred wine not available, but Montclair was 435 baht, Bell's scotch whiskey 395 baht. I think i can get a lot more pleasure form the whisky!

 

In part it is the principle, I refuse to pay extortionate taxes. I think the Yanks thought that as well, 220 years ago ....

The yanks were complaining about paying tax on imported merchandise into their country.  They were not complaining about visiting France and paying high prices for English beer.  I must apologize and plead ignorance on Scotch as I'm a Wild Turkey bourbon drinker.  Is the Montclair a fruit wine?

Edited April 27, 2019 by marcusarelus

[rickudon]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

The yanks were complaining about paying tax on imported merchandise into their country.  They were not complaining about visiting France and paying high prices for English beer.  I must apologize and plead ignorance on Scotch as I'm a Wild Turkey bourbon drinker.  Is the Montclair a fruit wine?

I think so. Tried it once and thought it pretty tasteless. Have bought Peter Vella, which is so-so, but prefer Castle Creek Red for the cheaper wines. Unfortunately since the tax hike wine stocks in the supermarkets in Udon have plummeted, along with the customers, so often only 2 or 3 cheaper wines. Rest all 500 baht plus.  Bells is an old long standing every day whisky brand from the UK, now being pushed in Thailand, as good as Johnny Walker in my opinion (but i am no expert). 

 

Just do my wine drinking in the UK or when a friend makes some .... also an option which will become more common. Wouldn't surprise me if smuggling across the Mekong increases. I could buy wine if i wanted, just the principle of being over-taxed that stops me. Cannot reward greed.

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, rickudon said:

I think so. Tried it once and thought it pretty tasteless. Have bought Peter Vella, which is so-so, but prefer Castle Creek Red for the cheaper wines. Unfortunately since the tax hike wine stocks in the supermarkets in Udon have plummeted, along with the customers, so often only 2 or 3 cheaper wines. Rest all 500 baht plus.  Bells is an old long standing every day whisky brand from the UK, now being pushed in Thailand, as good as Johnny Walker in my opinion (but i am no expert). 

 

Just do my wine drinking in the UK or when a friend makes some .... also an option which will become more common. Wouldn't surprise me if smuggling across the Mekong increases. I could buy wine if i wanted, just the principle of being over-taxed that stops me. Cannot reward greed.

Greed comes in all percentages.  Cosmetic profits are probably the highest.  How much do brand names cost for purses and shoes?  Do yo check the profit margin on all of your purchases? 

 

Do the manufacturers gain or the retail personal?  All imported products that have an import tax or VAT tax, benefit Thailand's government in some amount large or small. 

 

When you don't buy Australian wine you help the mega rich Thai beverage producing families and reinforce their decision to keep wine duties high.  Is that what you are trying to accomplish? 

 

I, on the other hand, want wine prices to come down and if there is enough of a market for good wines the beverage companies will adjust and begin to supply a good product. 

 

It is all a matter of supply and demand.  By withholding your demand you are supporting the people who wish Thailand not to have good wine.  

Edited April 27, 2019 by marcusarelus

[rickudon]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Greed comes in all percentages.  Cosmetic profits are probably the highest.  How much do brand names cost for purses and shoes?  Do yo check the profit margin on all of your purchases? 

 

Do the manufacturers gain or the retail personal?  All imported products that have an import tax or VAT tax, benefit Thailand's government in some amount large or small. 

 

When you don't buy Australian wine you help the mega rich Thai beverage producing families and reinforce their decision to keep wine duties high.  Is that what you are trying to accomplish? 

 

I, on the other hand, want wine prices to come down and if there is enough of a market for good wines the beverage companies will adjust and begin to supply a good product. 

 

It is all a matter of supply and demand.  By withholding your demand you are supporting the people who wish Thailand not to have good wine.  

That's your perception. Yes women pay stupid prices for cosmetics. I know that there are import duties on nearly everything imported here, and understand that governments DO need to tax some items, and i am not au fait with all the duties. But i know that some of these products are available in the UK and other countries (including SE asian countries) at much lower prices.

Not sure how much the Thai beverage companies actually benefit from higher wine taxes, It hasn't made me drink more Thai beer and Lao Khao..... What the high prices on many of these things mean is that i tend to personally import more items myself, rather than buy here. Not wine, but i can now buy a computer in the UK cheaper than Thailand, even though VAT is 3 times higher in UK  than Thailand .....

just greed, greed, greed. What Thailand needs is more competition to bring down prices.

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, rickudon said:

That's your perception. Yes women pay stupid prices for cosmetics. I know that there are import duties on nearly everything imported here, and understand that governments DO need to tax some items, and i am not au fait with all the duties. But i know that some of these products are available in the UK and other countries (including SE asian countries) at much lower prices.

Not sure how much the Thai beverage companies actually benefit from higher wine taxes, It hasn't made me drink more Thai beer and Lao Khao..... What the high prices on many of these things mean is that i tend to personally import more items myself, rather than buy here. Not wine, but i can now buy a computer in the UK cheaper than Thailand, even though VAT is 3 times higher in UK  than Thailand .....

just greed, greed, greed. What Thailand needs is more competition to bring down prices.

The high Aussie wine prices are meant to discourage Thais from drinking good wine.  When you don't drink it - eventually it will come off the shelves and the beverage companies will win and continue their monopoly on wine. 

[Scott]

Abusive post and reply reported and removed.  

[connda]

It's called protectionism. 

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Greed comes in all percentages.  Cosmetic profits are probably the highest.  How much do brand names cost for purses and shoes?  Do yo check the profit margin on all of your purchases? 

 

Do the manufacturers gain or the retail personal?  All imported products that have an import tax or VAT tax, benefit Thailand's government in some amount large or small. 

 

When you don't buy Australian wine you help the mega rich Thai beverage producing families and reinforce their decision to keep wine duties high.  Is that what you are trying to accomplish? 

 

I, on the other hand, want wine prices to come down and if there is enough of a market for good wines the beverage companies will adjust and begin to supply a good product. 

 

It is all a matter of supply and demand.  By withholding your demand you are supporting the people who wish Thailand not to have good wine.  

The 'good wine' war has already been lost when you can buy wine at your nearest 7-eleven.

 

Meanwhile, in other news, the owners of your favorite Thai convenience store, along with their Chinese 'partner' have just been awarded the 3-airport high-speed rail link contract after getting finance from unidentified sources (but I bet it's CITIC).

 

Who could have imagined that a couple of reluctant, Chinese chicken ranchers could do so well, eh?

 

As an adjunct, does anyone know off-hand how much a bottle of decent Aussie shiraz costs in China these days?

Edited April 27, 2019 by NanLaew
corrected occupations

[xylophone]

On 4/27/2019 at 11:30 PM, NanLaew said:

The 'good wine' war has already been lost when you can buy wine at your nearest 7-eleven.

Agree with that comment, this especially as the bottles in these stores are standing upright on the shelves (although the majority of them are screw caps) but they stay there in all temperatures, which means they deteriorate quickly, and I remember actually buying one on the way out somewhere, (forgotten to bring mine) and realised the temperature of the wine, and it wasn't good.

 

Having said that, there are a few "bargains" around and I am buying them at the moment, with a JJ McWilliams range at 380 baht a bottle and also today bought some Wolf Blass Eaglehawk Reds at Tops for 399 a bottle.

 

Certainly not top quality wines, but very good everyday drinkers and certainly better than the fruit blended stuff.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, xylophone said:

Agree with that comment, this especially as the bottles in these stores are standing upright on the shelves (although the majority of them are screw caps) but they stay there in all temperatures, which means they deteriorate quickly, and I remember actually buying one on the way out somewhere, (forgotten to bring mine) and realised the temperature of the wine, and it wasn't good.

 

Having said that, there are a few "bargains" around and I am buying them at the moment, with a JJ McWilliams range at 380 baht a bottle and also today bought some Wolf Blass Eaglehawk Reds at Tops for 399 a bottle.

 

Certainly not top quality wines, but very good everyday drinkers and certainly better than the fruit blended stuff.

Why would it make a difference if a screw top wine was on side or bottom or top?  Heat I can see making a difference but not position. 

[wreckingcountry]

Greed comes in all percentages.  Cosmetic profits are probably the highest.  How much do brand names cost for purses and shoes?  Do yo check the profit margin on all of your purchases? 
 
Do the manufacturers gain or the retail personal?  All imported products that have an import tax or VAT tax, benefit Thailand's government in some amount large or small. 
 
When you don't buy Australian wine you help the mega rich Thai beverage producing families and reinforce their decision to keep wine duties high.  Is that what you are trying to accomplish? 
 
I, on the other hand, want wine prices to come down and if there is enough of a market for good wines the beverage companies will adjust and begin to supply a good product. 
 
It is all a matter of supply and demand.  By withholding your demand you are supporting the people who wish Thailand not to have good wine.  

Perfectly summed up! When you think about it the situation with alcohol sums up the whole country ! Low quality products owned by the wealthy being protected with extortionate tariffs !


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[marcusarelus]

10 hours ago, wreckingcountry said:

Perfectly summed up! When you think about it the situation with alcohol sums up the whole country ! Low quality products owned by the wealthy being protected with extortionate tariffs !

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Get off it! Can you buy a Honda motorcycle here for the same price as Japan?  Sure you can.  If someone wants cheap wine come to Thailand and plant a vineyard.  How about the price of gas vs Europe?  How about the price of utilities?  I live here for half the money I'd spend in America. 

[wreckingcountry]

Get off it! Can you buy a Honda motorcycle here for the same price as Japan?  Sure you can.  If someone wants cheap wine come to Thailand and plant a vineyard.  How about the price of gas vs Europe?  How about the price of utilities?  I live here for half the money I'd spend in America. 

Completely different junk ! Read what was said ! If you want to talk about prices of products other than basics then it is higher !The price of cars in Thailand is higher than Europe , and Who wants a motorbike unless you dont value life !


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[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, wreckingcountry said:

Completely different junk ! Read what was said ! If you want to talk about prices of products other than basics then it is higher !The price of cars in Thailand is higher than Europe , and Who wants a motorbike unless you dont value life !


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

You wrote, "alcohol sums up the whole country ! Low quality products owned by the wealthy being protected with extortionate tariffs"  This is obviously untrue for anyone who knows anything about Thailand.   Thailand is not much different than anyplace else.  We are all scratching and grubbing for all we can get. 

[wreckingcountry]

You wrote, "alcohol sums up the whole country ! Low quality products owned by the wealthy being protected with extortionate tariffs"  This is obviously untrue for anyone who knows anything about Thailand.   Thailand is not much different than anyplace else.  We are all scratching and grubbing for all we can get. 

Haha...continue your “scratching and grubbing” if that’s what you think your life is about ! Oh and keep up with your knowledge of Wine prices

 

 

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[marcusarelus]

18 minutes ago, wreckingcountry said:

Haha...continue your “scratching and grubbing” if that’s what you think your life is about ! Oh and keep up with your knowledge of Wine prices

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

I have scratched and grubbed enough to afford a decent wine in Thailand.  What do you think I should pay for GranMonte "The Orient Syrah 2013."  I'm sure you have tried the GranMonte wines. 

[CharlieH]

Reported Off topic removed.