90 year-old Don is leaving Thailand

[Letseng]

7 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I believe you are only allowed two of these visas, but I am not sure.  If you can have as many as you like, sure, that is the solution, but if you can only have two, then after you have used them, you are back to the same problem.   

I have never had a different visa since 2004. Of course I need to do 90 day out of country breaks which is no problem for us. Better than doing ext. at CW.

We partly live in Thailand and partly in an EU country of which we are not citizens. Yes, we have free movement as EU citizens but we have no way to get PR as retirees. They have the right to boot us out at any time once we fall on hard times. They don't want us any more than Thailand does. Forget about the idea that you are more welcome anywhere else in the world. Your money is welcome, you are not. 

Folks on this forum should learn that the grass is no greener outside Thailand. E.g. Europe would be a rough awakening for most.

 

 

[Leaver]

11 minutes ago, Letseng said:

I have never had a different visa since 2004. Of course I need to do 90 day out of country breaks which is no problem for us. Better than doing ext. at CW.

We partly live in Thailand and partly in an EU country of which we are not citizens. Yes, we have free movement as EU citizens but we have no way to get PR as retirees. They have the right to boot us out at any time once we fall on hard times. They don't want us any more than Thailand does. Forget about the idea that you are more welcome anywhere else in the world. Your money is welcome, you are not. 

Folks on this forum should learn that the grass is no greener outside Thailand. E.g. Europe would be a rough awakening for most.

 

 

I'm confused.

 

You have an EU passport.  Correct?  if so, you don't need PR for another EU country, you can reside there, even work there. 

 

What you have been doing for the last 15 years to visit Thailand has no consequence on the "here and now" in Thailand.  

 

The new visa rules are forcing many expats outs, and even breaking up families.  

 

These visas, like all the others, were eventually going to be "tweaked."  It appears that time has come, and what you have been doing for 15 years may need adjusting.    

 

I disagree that there is no other greener grass outside Thailand.  Many countries offer a similar lifestyle, with a similar climate, nice beaches, vibrant tourist areas, many activities and cultural events, but are more affordable, and with a lot less bureaucracy.      

[Letseng]

20 minutes ago, Leaver said:

"You have an EU passport.  Correct?  if so, you don't need PR for another EU country, you can reside there, even work there. "

Yes, I could work but at 70 nobody will employ me. And yes, I don't need PR. To have it is an advantage.

On the basis of free movement as a retiree I have NO rights but only obligations. 

Re your comment that grass is greener outside Thailand: can you list advantage of Cambodia, Vietnam, Philippines other than similar climate and no 90 day report? You may find that it is a "give & take". 

I don't see why it is a problem to apply for non-imm O, ME if you find requirements for retirement ext. not affordable. Why is it less affordable than last year? Price hasn't changed.

 

[Letseng]

35 minutes ago, Leaver said:

These visas, like all the others, were eventually going to be "tweaked."  It appears that time has come, and what you have been doing for 15 years may need adjusting.

The rules of this visa were adjusted bit by bit over the years. I need to  show verifiable proof that I have the required amount pref. above over min. 3 months, I need registered residence in the country of application or no visa. Approval by Royal Thai Embassy is required.In 2004 there was no requirement of any sort. It took 10 mins. to get the visa issued by an honorary consul.

[ThomasThBKK]

3 hours ago, Letseng said:

Yes, we have free movement as EU citizens but we have no way to get PR as retirees. They have the right to boot us out at any time once we fall on hard times. They don't want us any more than Thailand does. Forget about the idea that you are more welcome anywhere else in the world. Your money is welcome, you are not. 

Folks on this forum should learn that the grass is no greener outside Thailand. E.g. Europe would be a rough awakening for most.

 

 

 

Please don't spread misinformation. You can't get a PR as you already have a EU passport which gives you full rights to everything and no one can kick you out their country, it's all governd by EU laws. Only way to kick someone out is exiting the EU a la Brexit - but that's nothing you can blame on the third party country. 

 

 

 

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, Letseng said:

Why not go for non-imm O multi entry? No need for 800.000 in a Thai bank. We just needed to show 200.000 ea. anywhere in the world.

If you are referring to the Non O multiple entry on the basis of marriage to a Thai, many snowbirds lack the prerequisite Thai spouse.

[Scott]

Bickering, baiting posts and replies removed.   Keep it civil or face a suspension.  

 

[Letseng]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

If you are referring to the Non O multiple entry on the basis of marriage to a Thai, many snowbirds lack the prerequisite Thai spouse.

Not on marriage. I'm married but not to a Thai. 

[BritTim]

27 minutes ago, Letseng said:

Not on marriage. I'm married but not to a Thai. 

Then, perhaps you meant a Non O-A (long stay) visa, available only from your home country (not anywhere). That requires a fair bit of paperwork, items hard to get in some countries, and often requires quite a bit of time in home country for the application. If you really mean a Non O (not Non O-A or tourist) visa, you need to explain more clearly what you mean. I am unaware of a suitable Non O for snowbirds.

[onera1961]

59 minutes ago, Letseng said:

Not on marriage. I'm married but not to a Thai. 

Non O-A is easy if you can get the following documents

a) A police clearance in your home country. For the US, embassy/consulate websites say it must be from a state or FBI clearance. I got it using a county clearance. 

b) A doctor's report. This depends on your doctor or your ability to find a suitable doctor who will sign a Thai immigration form and certify that you're free from certain Third World diseases. I already have an immigration doctor who signed mine. I would try with a certificate from a Thai doctor next year. 

c) I used money in the bank method. But if you have SS award letter or pension award letter, that should also work. For money in the bank method, I sent them three month's statements. The websites don't say anything specific. 

 

Visa fee is $200USD but it is good for two years. In the second year, you need a re-entry permit. 

Edited May 11, 2019 by onera1961

[Letseng]

38 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Then, perhaps you meant a Non O-A (long stay) visa, available only from your home country (not anywhere). That requires a fair bit of paperwork, items hard to get in some countries, and often requires quite a bit of time in home country for the application. If you really mean a Non O (not Non O-A or tourist) visa, you need to explain more clearly what you mean. I am unaware of a suitable Non O for snowbirds.

And I'm not a snowbird.ppp

[Letseng]

4 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

Please don't spread misinformation. You can't get a PR as you already have a EU passport which gives you full rights to everything and no one can kick you out their country, it's all governd by EU laws. Only way to kick someone out is exiting the EU a la Brexit - but that's nothing you can blame on the third party country. 

 

 

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/index_en.htm

 

Take the time to read this info. You will be surprised that FoM has many limitations and rules. All is fine while you work. The pic changes for retirees. No problem as long as you have money and medical insurance.

And  even as an EU citizen you can get PR.

Not me spreading wrong info but you being misinformed.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Letseng

[ThomasThBKK]

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/index_en.htm
 
Take the time to read this info. You will be surprised that FoM has many limitations and rules. All is fine while you work. The pic changes for retirees. No problem as long as you have money and medical insurance.
And  even as an EU citizen you can get PR.
Not me spreading wrong info but you being misinformed.

Ok right didn't know the PR stuff, don't see any point in it tho.

I just can't see the limitations?! It's illegal not to have health insurance in most (all?) eu countries anyway?


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[Leaver]

13 hours ago, Letseng said:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/index_en.htm

 

Take the time to read this info. You will be surprised that FoM has many limitations and rules. All is fine while you work. The pic changes for retirees. No problem as long as you have money and medical insurance.

And  even as an EU citizen you can get PR.

Not me spreading wrong info but you being misinformed.

What is the relevance of EU residency laws to Thailand visa laws, and the visa laws in other nearby countries?  

 

If Thailand's visa laws are now a problem for you, there is no need to go back to your home country, or any other country in the EU. 

 

There are many nearby countries offering all Thailand offers, but with less requirements, restrictions, and bureaucracy.

 

Sometimes the grass is greener, if you actually go and take a look at the grass.  ????

[Letseng]

On 5/12/2019 at 1:02 PM, Leaver said:

What is the relevance of EU residency laws to Thailand visa laws, and the visa laws in other nearby countries?  

 

If Thailand's visa laws are now a problem for you, there is no need to go back to your home country, or any other country in the EU. 

 

There are many nearby countries offering all Thailand offers, but with less requirements, restrictions, and bureaucracy.

 

Sometimes the grass is greener, if you actually go and take a look at the grass.  ????

The relevance is that you can't just barge into any country without meeting requirements. Not even in "united Europe".

Neighboring country? I worked in Cambodia and in Vietnam. Cambodia is a filth hole in every respect, Vietnam was not pleasant to work there. Can't imagine to live there. I'm not wealthy enough to get PR in Singapore without having worked there.

 

 

[ThomasThBKK]

What is the relevance of EU residency laws to Thailand visa laws, and the visa laws in other nearby countries?  
 
If Thailand's visa laws are now a problem for you, there is no need to go back to your home country, or any other country in the EU. 
 
There are many nearby countries offering all Thailand offers, but with less requirements, restrictions, and bureaucracy.
 
Sometimes the grass is greener, if you actually go and take a look at the grass.  [emoji846]

Please point me to retirement visas in these countries or a sheme lile thai elite.


The only one that has that retirment visa is the Philippines and the price difference to thailand is marginal. Malaysias m2h visa is expensive and crap compared to thailand.


Just because you can get a "fake business visa" for a brown envelope to an agent in cambodia, vietnam and co doesn't make it a good choice for older people especially.

Europe is for sure the saner alternative to that.

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[lkv]

9 hours ago, Letseng said:

The relevance is that you can't just barge into any country without meeting requirements. Not even in "united Europe".

Yeah you pretty much can in "united Europe". Nobody will bother to check if you have registered, if they do, worst case scenario it may be looked at as a misdemeanour subject to a small penalty. Also, you cannot be expelled,  you just carry on with your life. Which is why the authorities don't bother.

Edited June 5, 2019 by lkv

[malibukid]

On 4/24/2019 at 3:04 AM, Jingthing said:

Cleanse?

Of people?

That's extremely dark.

 

 

There was never any need to have 65k monthly to get an embassy letter.

 

That's what the combo method was for.

 

Yes I said was because these changes have made trying that extremely problematical.

 

Are you saying your friend had been lying to the embassy?

 

If so do you think that means most people were lying?

 

If so there is no evidence of that.

 

Your friend could have used the combo method before but are you saying he couldn't have covered the bank portion.

 

If so do you think that most or all people with income under 65k can't cover the bank portion?

 

If you do think that you have no evidence of that.

 

As said the combo method is now very much messed up especially without an embassy letter.

 

Even the full import without embassy letter has been a radical change. Now requires full monthly import. Before no import.

 

Again people saying there have been no changes, that only "poor" people are impacted are spreading obviously false information.

 

On the question of the percentage of people that were lying on their embassy letters, that is unknowable.

 

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get real, it's a money grab pure and simple.   still want money in their banks.  now i can understand why some people will not have a problem with that and will just anti up and stay. but it stinks. everyone must do a cost benefit assessment of what Thailand can offer them.  but it's getting pretty bad here and i am not talking about the new immigration policies.  the traffic, pollution, crumbling infrastructure, and the assault on what use to be a charming place to live by mass tourism. i personally know many who are quite well off leaving for the above reasons.   btw, the income letters where not issued specifically to reflect "pensions" amounts per se.  the wording in the document specifically stated monthly income from combined sources. i.e. investments, real estate, trusts and other financial instruments. i agree that the change to requiring a monthly import using the combo method or 65,000k and or a one time deposit of 800k, is further evidence of this cooked up rip-off.  while a letter from a CPA in ones home county could have sufficed.  

[malibukid]

On 4/24/2019 at 12:51 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

What rules have Thai Immigration Changed?

 

The only rule I can see is the enforced seasoning of 800k baht in a Thai Account (for 2 months before and 3 months afterwards, or something similar). 

 

Additionally, a lot of people have been caught out by the Embassy's refusing of provide Affirmation of Income because so many people were caught out lying and the Income claims were impossible to confirm due to freedom of information laws in our home countries. 

 

You mentioned that "didn't need to pay off immigration with an agent before now"... What does that mean? Are you implying that unless you use an agent your retirement Visa will not be processed even if you meet all the requirements (800k in a Thai Bank). 

 

So is it just the Affirmation of monthly income which preventing people from meeting the requirements? IF so, thank all those before you who exaggerated their income and abused the system. 

 

 

a signed FOI wavier document could have been requested by the embassy to verify income as stated.   this is standard procedure for any clearance level and could have been provided.  

[malibukid]

On 4/24/2019 at 2:16 PM, JackThompson said:

Two additional months one cannot spend out of the 800K at all, then 400K they can never spend out of. 

 

Before, one needed 3 months living expenses plus 800K and they were set.

 

Why are there no reported cases of people "caught out lying?"  Surely the anti-farang propaganda networks would have been blasting out that news.  Not to mention, for Aussies and Americans, it is a felony charge in your home-country, after you get done doing time on the Thai-charge.

 

The freedom of info protections go out the window if a legal case is brought (subpoenas get around that), which it would be, if Thai authorities had reported perjurous embassy-letters.

 

Many of those who cannot reach the Newly Moved Goalposts will be using agents - immigration's partners.  That is why immigration did this.  They want "tribute money" - and could not give a hoot if anyone "really" meets some arbitrary money-standard.

 

No, we can thank the fact that immigration engineered a way to force more honest people to agents. 

 

Before, people needed 65K gross monthly income on average.  Now they need to "import" 65K monthly - even if they don't spend that much, and/or receive money in different time-increments, and/or may have other expenses in their passport-country.

 

They contact the tax office and verify the figures?  Or the document itself is really hard to counterfeit - like money or something?

 that's it's Jack! import, import. money in our bankzies.  my god you've got it!

Edited June 5, 2019 by malibukid

[Nemises]

Does anyone know to which country the 90yo went?