Are retirees welcome in Thailand?

[keemapoot]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'd be surprised if they even give ample warning. In other words raise the money and make it literally impossible for many people to have the time to pre season.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Think about it. They have no motivation to take care of any of us. Their motivation is to keep the property market robust with Chinese sales and keep the tourism market full with Chinese tourists. We are irrelevant.

[keemapoot]

7 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Not correct. Or maybe correct if you add that you limit this statement to people from UK, US & AU. Don't forget that the majority of retirees still just need a letter from their embassy for their extension, and so they must consider Thailand rather welcoming to them.

Yes, you are right, however I would venture to guess that most retirees are from the UK/US and that the others are relatively smaller in numbers.

Edited May 3, 2019 by keemapoot

[mike787]

On 4/28/2019 at 10:20 PM, Janner1 said:

I find that retirees are entirely welcome here. You simply have to comply with 3 things 

 

Bring all your money here.

 

Give it all to some Thai bird or ladyboy.

 

And only stay for 30 days providing of course you have enough left to last you 30 days

She aint free????????

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, keemapoot said:

Think about it. They have no motivation to take care of any of us. Their motivation is to keep the property market robust with Chinese sales and keep the tourism market full with Chinese tourists. We are irrelevant.

At least they are not actively trying to dispatch us like some in our home countries. The Average wage in the USA is now 900 baht an hour. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by marcusarelus

[spidermike007]

12 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

I used to argue that Thailand's higher financial requirement for retirement visas (800K) than for marriage visas (400K) was justified because people on retirement visas were older and more likely to incur medical expenses, and perhaps had less of a social support network than a person on a marriage visa. But now that Thailand has changed the retirement visa requirement so that the 800K has to be on deposit for 5 months and the remaining 400K be on permanent deposit, (which makes these funds largely unavailable for any medical emergency), it is hard to see the higher requirement for retirement visas as anything other than as a 'barrier to entry.' It should also be noted that the lower financial requirement for marriage visas ignores the fact that a foreigner on a marriage visa often has family support obligations which could logically be argued would require more money to meet than someone on a retirement visa would otherwise need. Based on all this, it's hard not to conclude that Thailand is probably not as welcoming of the retirement demographic as towards the marriage visa demographic.

And all of that seems to be changing. There have been multiple posts on here recently, of guys having a very hard time getting marriage licenses at the local amphur. It does appear that the extreme racism, and xenophobia that this administration is perpetuating toward foreigners, is tricking down to many areas of government. And getting and maintaining a marriage visa is an unbelievable nightmare. It is so much more difficult than the retirement visa. It does appear that the authorities are trying to discourage us from marrying Thai woman, and living here as retired ex-pats, as well. The degree to which these utter fools are misguided is mind boggling. 

[Old Croc]

12 hours ago, keemapoot said:

Grandfathering is a thing of the past. Forget it. Won't happen.

A strong statement.

Based on knowledge or personal opinion?

 

[keemapoot]

10 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

A strong statement.

Based on knowledge or personal opinion?

 

Not based on any knowledge other than seeing the provisions of past grandfathering and taking into consideration recent trends and assuming those trends will continue. Grandfathering in the past was related back to 1998 and was never brought forward for any other more recent classes of retirees as new and tighter provisions were introduced. So, my assumption is that I see no trend indicating they will update that and that is why I say it is history. Trends are also based on political expediency and as we will have no populist leader in place, there is no reason to cater to this segment of the foreign community that may have been seen to be benefiting those related constituencies.

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by keemapoot
sp

[Old Croc]

3 minutes ago, keemapoot said:

Not based any any knowledge other than seeing the provisions of past grandfathering and taking into consideration recent trends and assuming those trends will continue. Grandfathering in the past was related back to 1998 and was never brought forward for any other more recent classes of retirees as new and tighter provisions were introduced. So, my assumption is that I see no trend indicating they will update that and that is why I say it is history.

 

So, opinion.

You're a braver man than me, I would be loathe to use absolutes when trying to guess what Thai bureaucracy may next decide.

As many retirees base their decisions of where to live, and the cost of living there for their remaining years, on current income levels, your assumption could be very upsetting for some.

From Legal.co.th -  "It's really not fair to just sort of throw people out who are abiding by the laws as they knew them at the time that they came to know them."

Recent trends (changes in proving income) specifically mention, and allow for people who are currently "grandfathered".  So I have trouble understanding your certainty that it is "a thing of the past".

[keemapoot]

So, opinion.
You're a braver man than me, I would be loathe to use absolutes when trying to guess what Thai bureaucracy may next decide.
As many retirees base their decisions of where to live, and the cost of living there for their remaining years, on current income levels, your assumption could be very upsetting for some.
From Legal.co.th -  "It's really not fair to just sort of throw people out who are abiding by the laws as they knew them at the time that they came to know them."
Recent trends (changes in proving income) specifically mention, and allow for people who are currently "grandfathered".  So I have trouble understanding your certainty that it is "a thing of the past".

Of course I hope I am wrong. If we see a reversing trend them I would revise my view.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, keemapoot said:

Not based on any knowledge other than seeing the provisions of past grandfathering and taking into consideration recent trends and assuming those trends will continue. Grandfathering in the past was related back to 1998 and was never brought forward for any other more recent classes of retirees as new and tighter provisions were introduced. So, my assumption is that I see no trend indicating they will update that and that is why I say it is history. Trends are also based on political expediency and as we will have no populist leader in place, there is no reason to cater to this segment of the foreign community that may have been seen to be benefiting those related constituencies.

 

 

The extend to which the outside world has helped this nation, seems to have been entirely forgotten, by the myopic and small minded men currently leading this nation into the abyss. The amount of foreign aid that both the US, and Japan extended to Thailand during it's formative years, as it evolved from a largely undeveloped nation, into the relative powerhouse it is today, cannot be underestimated. 

 

During the Vietnam War period Thailand, along with other US allies such as Cambodia, received considerable amounts of US economic aid and military subsidies.

From the early 1980s onwards internal problems in Myanmar have led to large numbers of people seeking refuge in Thailand. Various agencies, including the European Commission's Humanitarian Aid department, have helped to assist the displaced people. Historically Thailand was one of the biggest recipients of Japanese overseas aid. The bulk of the aid took the form of loans for large-scale infrastructure projects. Japan's government explained its relative generosity by citing friendly relations and Thailand's special problems arising from rapid growth, while some scholars have suggested that Japan’s own business interests were the main motivation.

 

 

In March 1962, Thanat and U.S. Secretary of State Dean Rusk signed a bilateral communiqué in which Washington promised to come to Thailand’s aid if it faced aggression by neighboring nations. The communiqué built upon an already-close U.S.-Thai relationship that had been forged in the 19^th century, with the bilateral Treaty of Amity and Commerce in 1833. The communiqué solidified Thailand’s role as a crucial U.S. ally.

 

During the Vietnam War years that followed the communiqué, the United States would dramatically build up Thailand’s armed forces, and Thai troops would become deeply involved in the wars in Laos and South Vietnam. (For an excellent, English-language account of Thai soldiers in the Vietnam War, see Richard Ruth’s In Buddha's Company: Thai soldiers in the Vietnam War.  In addition to their contributions in Vietnam, Thai troops helped a conservative Laotian general defeat a neutralist/leftist force in Laos in civil conflict in Vientiane in 1960. In later years, Thai troops repeatedly reinforced Hmong irregulars in Laos when the army of Hmong and other hill tribes, led by Vang Pao, faced disaster in Laos’ highlands. Overall, the United States lavished security and economic assistance on Thailand between the mid-1950s and the mid-1970s, rapidly modernizing the kingdom’s physical infrastructure.

 

Washington gained as well. The U.S. Air Force based much of its Indochina campaigns in Thailand, and bases in Udon Thani and Ubon Ratchathani swelled into virtual mini-Americas in the midst of the drought-ridden, baking-hot Thai Northeast. At the time of the Thanat-Rusk communiqué, the U.S-Thailand alliance was built on real mutual needs. Although, in retrospect, the communist threat to Thailand was limited---the actual Communist Party of Thailand never gained significant traction in the kingdom, for one---it seemed reasonable to believe that Thailand might be threatened by the political upheaval in Southeast Asia. And Thai leaders needed U.S. protection, U.S. diplomatic support despite the Thai generals’ abuses, and massive U.S. economic and security aid. 

 

https://www.cfr.org/blog/thanat-khoman-and-fraying-us-thailand-alliance

[ThaiBunny]

Those ungrateful bastards spidermike007

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

The extend to which the outside world has helped this nation, seems to have been entirely forgotten, by the myopic and small minded men currently leading this nation into the abyss. The amount of foreign aid that both the US, and Japan extended to Thailand during it's formative years, as it evolved from a largely undeveloped nation, into the relative powerhouse it is today, cannot be underestimated. 

 

During the Vietnam War period Thailand, along with other US allies such as Cambodia, received considerable amounts of US economic aid and military subsidies.

From the early 1980s onwards internal problems in Myanmar have led to large numbers of people seeking refuge in Thailand. Various agencies, including the European Commission's Humanitarian Aid department, have helped to assist the displaced people. Historically Thailand was one of the biggest recipients of Japanese overseas aid. The bulk of the aid took the form of loans for large-scale infrastructure projects. Japan's government explained its relative generosity by citing friendly relations and Thailand's special problems arising from rapid growth, while some scholars have suggested that Japan’s own business interests were the main motivation.

 

 

In March 1962, Thanat and U.S. Secretary of State Dean Rusk signed a bilateral communiqué in which Washington promised to come to Thailand’s aid if it faced aggression by neighboring nations. The communiqué built upon an already-close U.S.-Thai relationship that had been forged in the 19^th century, with the bilateral Treaty of Amity and Commerce in 1833. The communiqué solidified Thailand’s role as a crucial U.S. ally.

 

During the Vietnam War years that followed the communiqué, the United States would dramatically build up Thailand’s armed forces, and Thai troops would become deeply involved in the wars in Laos and South Vietnam. (For an excellent, English-language account of Thai soldiers in the Vietnam War, see Richard Ruth’s In Buddha's Company: Thai soldiers in the Vietnam War.  In addition to their contributions in Vietnam, Thai troops helped a conservative Laotian general defeat a neutralist/leftist force in Laos in civil conflict in Vientiane in 1960. In later years, Thai troops repeatedly reinforced Hmong irregulars in Laos when the army of Hmong and other hill tribes, led by Vang Pao, faced disaster in Laos’ highlands. Overall, the United States lavished security and economic assistance on Thailand between the mid-1950s and the mid-1970s, rapidly modernizing the kingdom’s physical infrastructure.

 

Washington gained as well. The U.S. Air Force based much of its Indochina campaigns in Thailand, and bases in Udon Thani and Ubon Ratchathani swelled into virtual mini-Americas in the midst of the drought-ridden, baking-hot Thai Northeast. At the time of the Thanat-Rusk communiqué, the U.S-Thailand alliance was built on real mutual needs. Although, in retrospect, the communist threat to Thailand was limited---the actual Communist Party of Thailand never gained significant traction in the kingdom, for one---it seemed reasonable to believe that Thailand might be threatened by the political upheaval in Southeast Asia. And Thai leaders needed U.S. protection, U.S. diplomatic support despite the Thai generals’ abuses, and massive U.S. economic and security aid. 

 

https://www.cfr.org/blog/thanat-khoman-and-fraying-us-thailand-alliance

You didn't mention the training.  Thousands of Thais were trained to build things.  After the war they went to other countries and built things and became rich.  I still have Thai friends my age who think they owe me for that.  They have always been nice to me.  When I first got here helping me and offering me jobs.  I always thought it humorous they retired to Hawaii and I Thailand. 

[Uptooyoo]

On 5/3/2019 at 9:02 AM, Mike Teavee said:

NON-OA It's a great option for those who prefer to keep their monies in their own country and are happy/able to visit their home country every couple of years.

 

Can I ask how long you've lived in Thailand? My reason for asking is if you've lived (been resident) in Thailand for several years, did you also need a criminal history check from Thailand for the application?

I was here for a year and a half on Visa exempts and 30 day extensions. They gave me a warning when I returned from a ten day trip to Bali to get the proper Visa. So I flew back to the USA, worked a contract for a month, and then visited relatives while I submitted the paperwork for a Multiple-entry, Non-IM O-A Visa from the Thai Consulate. No hassles at all. Very friendly. When you file in your own country you only need a background check from your country, not Thailand. I gave them my background check from the FBI.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Uptooyoo
added info

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 7:59 PM, Sydebolle said:

Some 20+ friends have moved on to other places as they just had it with all that ever increasing government crap.

They moved to Bali, Sihanoukville, Luang Prabang and Mandalay. Three moved onto Malaysia and reported "found houses without imminent minarets, could buy a house in our name, two cars (first one duty free, the second one at half the duty) and got a five year visa with multiple re-entry. No TM 1 to 200 forms, no photocopies and no 90-days reporting nor TM30. I feel more than welcome here and certainly much more freedom with less Thai lacking-common-sense- bureaucracy breathing down our necks."

I assume that the net balance of retirees is shrinking as fewer come than go .......... 

Problem with Malaysia is it's a fun devoid zone. I stayed in Penang two nights and then went back to LOS for some sanuk.

Might be all right if married already.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 4:29 PM, spidermike007 said:

 

The extend to which the outside world has helped this nation, seems to have been entirely forgotten, by the myopic and small minded men currently leading this nation into the abyss. The amount of foreign aid that both the US, and Japan extended to Thailand during it's formative years, as it evolved from a largely undeveloped nation, into the relative powerhouse it is today, cannot be underestimated. 

 

During the Vietnam War period Thailand, along with other US allies such as Cambodia, received considerable amounts of US economic aid and military subsidies.

From the early 1980s onwards internal problems in Myanmar have led to large numbers of people seeking refuge in Thailand. Various agencies, including the European Commission's Humanitarian Aid department, have helped to assist the displaced people. Historically Thailand was one of the biggest recipients of Japanese overseas aid. The bulk of the aid took the form of loans for large-scale infrastructure projects. Japan's government explained its relative generosity by citing friendly relations and Thailand's special problems arising from rapid growth, while some scholars have suggested that Japan’s own business interests were the main motivation.

 

 

In March 1962, Thanat and U.S. Secretary of State Dean Rusk signed a bilateral communiqué in which Washington promised to come to Thailand’s aid if it faced aggression by neighboring nations. The communiqué built upon an already-close U.S.-Thai relationship that had been forged in the 19^th century, with the bilateral Treaty of Amity and Commerce in 1833. The communiqué solidified Thailand’s role as a crucial U.S. ally.

 

During the Vietnam War years that followed the communiqué, the United States would dramatically build up Thailand’s armed forces, and Thai troops would become deeply involved in the wars in Laos and South Vietnam. (For an excellent, English-language account of Thai soldiers in the Vietnam War, see Richard Ruth’s In Buddha's Company: Thai soldiers in the Vietnam War.  In addition to their contributions in Vietnam, Thai troops helped a conservative Laotian general defeat a neutralist/leftist force in Laos in civil conflict in Vientiane in 1960. In later years, Thai troops repeatedly reinforced Hmong irregulars in Laos when the army of Hmong and other hill tribes, led by Vang Pao, faced disaster in Laos’ highlands. Overall, the United States lavished security and economic assistance on Thailand between the mid-1950s and the mid-1970s, rapidly modernizing the kingdom’s physical infrastructure.

 

Washington gained as well. The U.S. Air Force based much of its Indochina campaigns in Thailand, and bases in Udon Thani and Ubon Ratchathani swelled into virtual mini-Americas in the midst of the drought-ridden, baking-hot Thai Northeast. At the time of the Thanat-Rusk communiqué, the U.S-Thailand alliance was built on real mutual needs. Although, in retrospect, the communist threat to Thailand was limited---the actual Communist Party of Thailand never gained significant traction in the kingdom, for one---it seemed reasonable to believe that Thailand might be threatened by the political upheaval in Southeast Asia. And Thai leaders needed U.S. protection, U.S. diplomatic support despite the Thai generals’ abuses, and massive U.S. economic and security aid. 

 

https://www.cfr.org/blog/thanat-khoman-and-fraying-us-thailand-alliance

Pity the <deleted> in the US congress lost their bottle and abandoned the fight. All those deaths and all that money wasted because the US government wouldn't stay the course.

[Fex Bluse]

On 4/26/2019 at 12:34 PM, CMNightRider said:

It is nothing short of mind boggling the yearly nonsense you have to go through for a retirement extension, 90 day reporting, and now more TM forms.  Of course western retirees are not welcome.

 

The irony of all this, is western countries treat Thais much differently when they reside in their countries. Thais are not hounded every year with visa extensions, there is no 90 day reporting unless you are on parole from prison, and TM forms or any other forms to fill out every time you turn around are not required. ????     

And the even greater irony is that Thais are fairly notorious for law breaking in western countries. Whether it's illegally working as Massage prostitutes or working illegally in Thai restaurants and overstaying their visas. 

 

Funny that 

 

Example: https://www.justice.gov/usao-edla/pr/restaurant-and-owner-guilty-harboring-and-employing-illegal-aliens

Edited May 7, 2019 by Fex Bluse

[newarrior]

On 4/26/2019 at 11:35 AM, ubonjoe said:

What office is asking for a TM30 report when doing a 90 day report.

I have never been asked for TM30 form in all the years I have been here.

No problem to do the 90 day reports.

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Me neither in my two years here but since last month this TM30 fear is spreading like wildfire

[newarrior]

On 4/26/2019 at 11:38 AM, Yeahbutwhytho said:

I meant in general you must do a tm30 everytime you leave/arrive

never done this never had issues

[bkk6060]

I believe the transition to "quality retirees" is taking place.

Retirees who have a financial presence and who make a positive contribution.

 

The filthy, dirty teeth, big mouth complaining, little money, alcoholic, diseased, "I contribute to Singha" lowlifes are on the non wanted list.

 

Good strategy, as I would not want them in my country either.

[CMNightRider]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

I believe the transition to "quality retirees" is taking place.

Retirees who have a financial presence and who make a positive contribution.

 

The filthy, dirty teeth, big mouth complaining, little money, alcoholic, diseased, "I contribute to Singha" lowlifes are on the non wanted list.

 

Good strategy, as I would not want them in my country either.

We obviously travel in different circles.  Where do you hang out where you see people like this?

[JimmyJ]

14 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I believe the transition to "quality retirees" is taking place.

Retirees who have a financial presence and who make a positive contribution.

 

The filthy, dirty teeth, big mouth complaining, little money, alcoholic, diseased, "I contribute to Singha" lowlifes are on the non wanted list.

 

Good strategy, as I would not want them in my country

either.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxJlcVYBvOY

Edited May 9, 2019 by JimmyJ

[CMNightRider]

On 5/9/2019 at 7:35 AM, bkk6060 said:

I believe the transition to "quality retirees" is taking place.

Retirees who have a financial presence and who make a positive contribution.

 

The filthy, dirty teeth, big mouth complaining, little money, alcoholic, diseased, "I contribute to Singha" lowlifes are on the non wanted list.

 

Good strategy, as I would not want them in my country either.

Do you still feel good about posting such a hateful comment about western retirees?  You might want to take a look at yourself in the mirror, and try to see what makes you think you are so superior to others.  

 

In all the years I have been in Thailand, I have never knowingly met a western retiree who wasn't contributing financially to Thailand.  Even the guys who eat at the inexpensive Thai food courts everyday are creating jobs for Thai citizens, not to mention the people who own the condos and apartments these retirees rent.

 

Thai Immigration, and I suspect the current Thai government views western retirees as a captivated group they can exploit for their scheme to prop up their Thai banks.  I'm sure the people who concocted this money making scheme, enjoys reading comments such as yours.  If you don't feel shame over what you wrote, you certainly should. ????  

[marcusarelus]

8 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Thai Immigration, and I suspect the current Thai government views western retirees as a captivated group they can exploit for their scheme to prop up their Thai banks.  I'm sure the people who concocted this money making scheme, enjoys reading comments such as yours.  If you don't feel shame over what you wrote, you certainly should. ????  

You should feel a bunch of shame for writing what you have.  Only a brief look at the banking system will completely disprove your comments.  You should be ashamed at making such things up.  Take a look at the state of Thai foreign exchange before posting such wrongful comments in the future. 

[CMNightRider]

7 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

You should feel a bunch of shame for writing what you have.  Only a brief look at the banking system will completely disprove your comments.  You should be ashamed at making such things up.  Take a look at the state of Thai foreign exchange before posting such wrongful comments in the future. 

What is it you think I made up?  

[rumak]

On 4/30/2019 at 1:33 PM, marcusarelus said:

On 4/30/2019 at 1:14 PM, Jingthing said:

Nobody does. But there is a false narrative being widely broadcast that deserves aggressive pushback. That false narrative asserts that all or most expats with issues or complaints about the new onerous set of visa rule changes is broke ass or a liar to their embassy. So people explaining nope its not nearly that black and white serve to help rebut that false narrative.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Wrong.  As far as I'm concerned.  Maybe you are talking about someone else.  I referenced one poster who messed up his extension by using an agent and another who does not have 800k to put in the bank.  The combination method is in a state of flux but as I understood it before part of your money would be in the bank and part in income.  Perhaps those who run afoul of that or other rogue immigration officers should have a back up plan or leave. 

 

I'd suggest to use a less argumentative vocabulary if you expect to discuss the issues with a level of civility.  I certainly have never used terms like, "broke ass or liar" to refer to any of our members who are having problems. 

+1  !

[StevieAus]

What are the other” lot of changes” you only mention one the others are not new.

I use the income method for me easier or need

to visit the Embassy a letter from the bank instead and cheaper.

[StevieAus]

On 5/6/2019 at 4:08 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Problem with Malaysia is it's a fun devoid zone. I stayed in Penang two nights and then went back to LOS for some sanuk.

Might be all right if married already.

Totally agree with that comment we have just returned from a trip to Melaka the hotel wouldn't serve alcohol in the restaurant none in the rooms, trying to get a beer in a restaurant was like pulling teeth, wouldn’t even let you bring in your own that is if you could find somewhere where it was on sale.

[CMNightRider]

On 5/10/2019 at 10:10 AM, marcusarelus said:

You should feel a bunch of shame for writing what you have.  Only a brief look at the banking system will completely disprove your comments.  You should be ashamed at making such things up.  Take a look at the state of Thai foreign exchange before posting such wrongful comments in the future. 

What is it you think I made up that I should be ashamed of writing?  Maybe you can share what is it you find interesting about "the state of Thai foreign exchange," and how this relates to the question "are retirees welcome in Thailand."  

 

Since you have been a former educator in Thailand, I'm sure your thoughts about the "Thai foreign exchange" would be interesting to hear about.  I certainly didn't intentionally post any "wrongful comments."  If so, I appreciate you pointing them out for me.   

 

 

[nausea]

Your lump sum will be very welcome. What happens after is anybody's guess. Plenty of guys find happiness here - just remember "mai mee satang" bad, "nitnoi satang" not so bad.