Are retirees welcome in Thailand?

[wwest5829]

Hmmm, just agreed to a 3-year rental contract and made the deposit. 7 years, 9 months and counting. Monthly income method, I have always had an agency take care of the paperwork and keep up with any changes. See, I am an optimist ... saved $50.00 by not having to pay the Consulate for the affidavit.

[Peterw42]

8 minutes ago, aussieinphuket said:

what will be next, the one that got me pissed off was the photo required of both standing outside your villa with address showing on the wall between you, we arrived with all paper work (this when had the retirement visa) immigration guy looked at it and said where are your hands in the photo we were sitting in front of him and said here they are, no go all the way home, take a photo again with hands also showing in photo.... small things amuse small minds....... another wasted day back and forth to immigration... what's next......

Photos are the same at Jomtien, they dont want selfies, so they want to see your hands and no selfie stick. I suppose it stops (or discourages) you standing outside a different house and quickly snapping a couple of shots.

[marcusarelus]

19 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Some 20+ friends have moved on to other places as they just had it with all that ever increasing government crap.

They moved to Bali, Sihanoukville, Luang Prabang and Mandalay. Three moved onto Malaysia and reported "found houses without imminent minarets, could buy a house in our name, two cars (first one duty free, the second one at half the duty) and got a five year visa with multiple re-entry. No TM 1 to 200 forms, no photocopies and no 90-days reporting nor TM30. I feel more than welcome here and certainly much more freedom with less Thai lacking-common-sense- bureaucracy breathing down our necks."

I assume that the net balance of retirees is shrinking as fewer come than go .......... 

Applicants older than 50 years old will need to show that they have liquid assets of at least $95,000 USD, or that they generate a monthly offshore income/pension of at least $3,000 USD. A Malaysian bank account will also need to be opened up with a deposit of at least $40,000 USD. After one year, $13,000 USD may be withdrawn for approved uses in the country. A minimum balance of $27,000 USD must be kept in the account at all times. The fixed deposit may be waived for those applying under a $3,000 monthly offshore pension.

[mike787]

4 hours ago, connda said:

If you rephrase the question from "Are retirees welcome in Thailand?" to "Is money welcome in Thailand?" then it's easier to answer.  Yes.  Money is welcome in Thailand.  Leave the money as fast as you can then get the heck out.  Foreigners are not 'welcome' here.  Their money is 'welcome.'  The foreigner is just barely tolerated.  That's why Thai authorities track foreigners with more scrutiny than a Thai murderer on parole.   That's how you are looked upon - potential criminal simply waiting to commit a crime.  
If I had to do it over again, I would never have married a Thai and I would have been spending my retirement is a country which is friendly toward expat retirees.  Thailand is not one of those countries.

 

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, Donaldo said:

I made some comments on similar treads in the past and got in some cases some rather rude answers which where not called for. I am married to a Thai citizen, and we both lived in Spain and now Georgia. My Thai wife has been made to feel very welcome here. Both in Spain and Georgia. She is never treated any different and pays the same prices and fees as the locals. I have to add to this that Georgia is not a rich country and might be actually poorer then Thailand. But like I said they play by the rules and don't make life unnecessarily difficult. The bureaucracy in Georgia is probably one of the most efficient I have seen anywhere. One decision we both made is that Thailand is not going to be our home unless there are some major changes in it's xenophobic practices and attitude. Probably will wait until hell freezes over, but in the long run it is Thailand that will loose out.

How long did you live in Thailand?

[Gecko123]

31 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

Sorry, let me clear up the confusion.

 

I stayed in a hotel in Bangkok for a few days.  The hotel filed a TM30 while I was there.  Immigration new that I had stayed there.

 

When I returned home to my rented house (in Loei), my landlord was required to file a TM30 for me stating that I was back in his rental property again (I know it is absolutely crazy that it should be reported when a person goes home).  This TM30 was not done and this is where the problem arose.

 

On my next trip to Immigration to do my next 90 day report, I was questioned why I did not have a TM30 submitted when I had returned to my home after staying in Bangkok for a few days.  There was no receipt in my passport for this missing TM30.  Here if filing a TM30 for a rented house, a receipt of the TM30 is stapled in your passport.

 

I hope this makes it clearer.

This is the same procedure in Lopburi immigration which is 110+ km from my house. According to Lopburi immigration, if you stay overnight outside of your home province, or leave the country you are expected to file a new TM-30 within 24 hours of your return home. It's a royal pain in the ass, and completely inhibits travel.

 

I am continuing to fine tune plans to leave Thailand. Think it's all talk, no action? Well, I cancelled my True Visions subscription today. Have slashed consumer expenditures to the bone: partly in protest over how retirees are being treated like criminals, partly because of freeze on purchase of any durable goods, partly because overnight travel outside of my province has been inhibited by immigration, partly because I signed up for Medicare (in anticipation of repatriation) and partly to conserve money in anticipation of repatriation. 

Edited April 28, 2019 by Gecko123

[Fairynuff]

All we really want is a single set of rules. One that is understood by both sides. One that is the same wherever you live and one that is adhered to. Fine if the rules change sometimes but consistency would mean everything.

[mejomini]

Boring....Just follow the rules....or move.....your choice.

 

[Rimmer]

A baiting troll post has been removed

[Fairynuff]

4 minutes ago, mejomini said:

Boring....Just follow the rules....or move.....your choice.

 

....if you know what the rules are. If THEY don’t know....

[mejomini]

3 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

....if you know what the rules are. If THEY don’t know....

True enough.....consistency would be nice.

[khunPer]

On 4/26/2019 at 6:14 AM, Yeahbutwhytho said:

There's been alot of changes in the past year, do you enjoy your relaxing retirement period of life...

Not a lot of changes, just reminders that you shall follow the intention of the rules, and don't try to bypass them.

 

I'm as relaxed as I've been all my retirement-years in LoS, because I've always had:

• 800k baht in long term fixed deposit, so I don't need to worry about withdrawals or topping up, just take out my earned interest every year
• I use a yellow marker in my old-fashioned card-board calendar on my desk, to remind me of my next 90-day report, I have about a weeks gap to get it done, so easy to plan
• Once a year I extend my permission to stay in the kingdom, checking in advance for any documentation updates, and I go to the local immigration office with all paperwork prepared from home – i.e. "piece of cake"
• If I'm travelling abroad – I actually prefer to stay in LoS – I just do an online TM30 registration the day I come back, as I'm my own "house master"; years before I didn't bother, as it was the duty of the landlords/receptionists

I indeed feel welcome as retiree...????

 

[MeePeeMai]

5 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Some 20+ friends have moved on to other places as they just had it with all that ever increasing government crap.

They moved to Bali, Sihanoukville, Luang Prabang and Mandalay. Three moved onto Malaysia and reported "found houses without imminent minarets, could buy a house in our name, two cars (first one duty free, the second one at half the duty) and got a five year visa with multiple re-entry. No TM 1 to 200 forms, no photocopies and no 90-days reporting nor TM30. I feel more than welcome here and certainly much more freedom with less Thai lacking-common-sense- bureaucracy breathing down our necks."

I assume that the net balance of retirees is shrinking as fewer come than go .......... 

I'm getting tired of it too and I have only been living here full time 1 year.  I had no idea before moving here that I would be required to jump through so many hoops with all the 90 day reports, the absurd TM 30's for each time I leave and return to my home, the cancellation of the income letters and all the new requirements for your next extension (USA citizen) ... I'm starting to feel like a parolee here and don't even want to leave my home anymore.

 

Now with the new extension rules (for those of us who's Embassies no longer issue an income affidavit), it just adds another degree of stress and hassle to living here, having to prove everything to them (as far as your monthly income transfers and/or the money in the bank and combo method - if using that method).

 

All the while hoping that you've not done anything wrong so as to be denied on your next extension application, me having to fly to Bangkok to go to the main branch of my bank in Bangkok just to get the statements and letter that is required to apply for my next extension etc. 

 

Make sure you follow all their inconsistent, unpredictable and ever changing rules to a tee (and pray a lot), or kiss your next extension goodbye. 

 

No agents for me, thanks.  If I cannot do it myself (while always abiding by the law) then forget it, i'll leave.

 

I had a pictured an easy going, relaxed retirement (with my wife) here in Thailand.  I had planned to buy a nice condo on the beach, build my wife a nice home and travel around sightseeing the country and enjoying all that Thailand has to offer .... I have since changed my mind and no longer want to own a condo or invest any money here.  I've read the horror stories.

 

I don't even want to leave the house because everytime I do, I have to spend 4-5 hours doing a TM30 to let them know I am home once again (within 24 hours). I don't like having to deal with Immigration as often as I do.

 

This is causing some slight friction between my wife and I and we are now talking about leaving Thailand at some point in the future.  It is disheartening. 

 

I'm a patient person but I am not one to just bend over and take it (so to speak) just so I can live here in peace with my wife.  I love living here but I feel stressed out all the time worrying about my next extension, getting my monthly transfers done so as to please the IO (and coded as FTT), making sure my next TM30 is done on time so as not to be fined etc. 

 

If they raise the fines to 10,000 baht for late reporting of a TM30 (like they have proposed) then I would pack my bags that very day if I was ever personally fined that kind of money.

 

In contrast, if I bring my wife to the USA, she does not have to check in with anybody, she can live anywhere she wants in the entire USA (without notifying anybody), she can work any job she wants, she can buy and own property (in her own name).  Basically she is free to live her life as she wants without having to be monitored and treated as a criminal.  A little reciprocity would be nice.

 

If I were to die or we were to get divorced then she would be allowed to stay (forever is she pleases) and not be given just 7 days (or a few months if I died) to leave the country.  The only thing she would be required to do is renew her green card before it expires.  That would be the extent of her Immigration hassles.   How do I know?   I brought my ex-wife to the USA from Indonesia 18 years ago (and she still lives there).

 

I try to be optimistic and I am hoping for a change for the better in the near future (now that BJ is gone and after we get through this first year after the recent changes) but when I look at it realistically, it does not look good to me.  Things are not getting easier (that's for sure) and I like to take the road of least resistance. 

 

Who knows, I have a wife here (so I am trying to make the best of it) but I am also open to moving elsewhere and my wife has stated that she will go with me (wherever I my roam).

 

 

[totally thaied up]

It was very different ten years ago when I first arrived. Just did border runs and lived the good life. No paperwork and just had a grand old time. Now when I go home in June, need to do a TM30 within 24 hours. Where  did it all go so wrong. Honestly speaking, about five years ago. Since then the thumb screws have been getting tighter.

 

 I am going to find it hard going back home to Thailand this time. I feel as I get older, the likelihood of me staying on will get much less. Over the next so many years I think my wife and I will travel through SEA more instead of sticking to Thailand. I miles well travel to neighboring countries than travel in Thailand. The smog issue in CM saw us leave for three months this year and left a very sour taste in our mouths. AUD being so low sucks. Has been a real eye opener going home. Thailand isn’t as user friendly now and that is a shame.

[rumak]

On 4/26/2019 at 12:40 PM, kevvy said:

The unofficial mayor of chiang rai once said , the have nots are not welcome here .

i think he might take offense to you calling him "unofficial".    But then again you and I are probably on

his ignore list and he wouldn't see it.  

I feel welcome here and can basically live free without any hassles .   Yeah, once in a while have to fill out a form

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by rumak

[RBOP]

3 hours ago, EricTh said:

You assume that Thai are fluent in English when half the time they don't understand what you are saying especially when you talk fast or use slang.

 

That's why I have been learning Thai and speaking to them in Thai. Or I speak real slow English ....

I have no idea how can assume I assume that. Let's break down the meaning of assume. Don't assume as you may make an ass of u and me.

 

[mike787]

50 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Photos are the same at Jomtien, they dont want selfies, so they want to see your hands and no selfie stick. I suppose it stops (or discourages) you standing outside a different house and quickly snapping a couple of shots.

I understand what you are saying.  However, read "exactly" below what is stated. You BOTH make valid points. However, the FACTS are different in his circumstance - NO selfie stick used.  Dealing with each IO is as different as the moods swings in a schizophrenic mind; there is a complete disconnect of Thai immigration law from office to office, to orfficer  to orfficer (pun intended) etc, etc as posted by many TVF members over the years, especially more recently. 

 

51 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

what will be next, the one that got me pissed off was the photo required of both standing outside your villa with address showing on the wall between you, we arrived with all paper work (this when had the retirement visa) immigration guy looked at it and said where are your hands in the photo we were sitting in front of him and said here they are, no go all the way home, take a photo again with hands also showing in photo.... small things amuse small minds....... another wasted day back and forth to immigration... what's next......

 

[MeePeeMai]

54 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

This is the same procedure in Lopburi immigration which is 110+ km from my house. According to Lopburi immigration, if you stay overnight outside of your home province, or leave the country you are expected to file a new TM-30 within 24 hours of your return home. It's a royal pain in the ass, and completely inhibits travel.

 

I agree, it COMPLETELY inhibits the desire to travel (anywhere).

 

For those that say you've never had to file a TM30, just wait ... you're next.

Edited April 28, 2019 by MeePeeMai

[watcharacters]

On 4/26/2019 at 1:18 PM, Skallywag said:

your own spoon for yogurt from the 7-11. 

 

I'm always given a free spoon when I buy a yogurt from 7.       

[mike787]

45 minutes ago, mejomini said:

Boring....Just follow the rules....or move.....your choice.

 

Does your comment also apply to immigration staff or just us "good guys" in.  Just wondering.  There seems to be a disconnect between what people have posted on TVF and your statement. Not all have experienced an efficient visa process.  I have said this before.  Thai immigration = consistently inconsistent. I guess that's life.  Suck it up and move on - right.  By the way, I do apply your philosphy in many aspects of life everywhere with much success. 

[mike787]

32 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Not a lot of changes, just reminders that you shall follow the intention of the rules, and don't try to bypass them.

 

I'm as relaxed as I've been all my retirement-years in LoS, because I've always had:

• 800k baht in long term fixed deposit, so I don't need to worry about withdrawals or topping up, just take out my earned interest every year
• I use a yellow marker in my old-fashioned card-board calendar on my desk, to remind me of my next 90-day report, I have about a weeks gap to get it done, so easy to plan
• Once a year I extend my permission to stay in the kingdom, checking in advance for any documentation updates, and I go to the local immigration office with all paperwork prepared from home – i.e. "piece of cake"
• If I'm travelling abroad – I actually prefer to stay in LoS – I just do an online TM30 registration the day I come back, as I'm my own "house master"; years before I didn't bother, as it was the duty of the landlords/receptionists

I indeed feel welcome as retiree...????

 

This is MUCH easier. 

[Peterw42]

10 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

 

I agree, it COMPLETELY inhibits the desire to travel (anywhere).

 

For those that say you've never had to file a TM30, just wait ... you're next.

I agree, a couple of things you can do to lessen the impact, you can always check-in to hotels in wifes name, pink ID (if you can get one). Try for the online 90 day and TM30 system. 

Most hotels will take a thai persons ID over a foreign passport for check-ins, less work. 

Stay in airBnBs keeps you off the radar.

 

[StevieAus]

On 4/26/2019 at 11:53 AM, RobMuir said:

You could try Australia. If you are white we might let you in.

I thought it had become the other way around. If you are white we probably will NOT let you in.

[MeePeeMai]

8 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I agree, a couple of things you can do to lessen the impact, you can always check-in to hotels in wifes name, pink ID (if you can get one). Try for the online 90 day and TM30 system. 

Most hotels will take a thai persons ID over a foreign passport for check-ins, less work. 

Stay in airBnBs keeps you off the radar.

Yes I agree but my wife works 6 days a week so she is not able to travel much with me.  Whenever we travel together I always have her book the room and just kind of hide when she checks in but I usually travel alone.

 

The Pink ID works at some hotels but not all and it does not satisfy the info needed for the TM30.  I believe that less and less hotels will accept it in the future (without a valid passport) as Immigration is getting stricter with hotels too.

 

I have not tried airBnBs but I heard that they are now illegal unless rented for 30 days or more (long term only)??

 

Also, I believe that my immigration office does not accept/allow online reports as I asked them.  "Mai dai" was the answer I got.

 

Thanks!!

Edited April 28, 2019 by MeePeeMai

[NoshowJones]

I would like to see this in a survey.

[Jaxxper]

I think this post is just trying to scaremonger. If you are truly in a financial position to retire having the Thb 800/400 k on deposit is no big deal. Is it an inconvenience then yes, is it intolerable then no.

I've just renewed my retirement visa for another year. The departure card I gave them as support was later than the last TM30 I gave them about two years ago. There does not appear to be a strictly enforced requirement to redo your TM30 every time you come back from somewhere. Note I say enforced and not a requirement because I believe it is a requirement.

I do feel sorry for the guys that retired here when there was Thb 70 to the Pound Sterling and now its +/- 40, but that's a different issue.

If its all becoming too much then whoever is impacted should consider saddling up their mule and moving either back to where they came from or picking a new retirement paradise. Just my view.  

[NoshowJones]

On 4/26/2019 at 11:22 AM, madmen said:

Whats the point of this thread? and why the drama?

Future stay for TM30 and 90 day report?...thats just nonsense. You pay your fine and off you go

The OP has a good point with this thread. Thailand are always making an unnecessary drama of things.

They just love their authority.

[NoshowJones]

On 4/26/2019 at 11:28 AM, Dmaxdan said:

They have to have rules in order to keep out the undesirables....or is it the desirables, I'm never really sure. 

Rules are fine if they are fair, so why make a vast majority of decent people suffer because of a very small amount of undesirables.

The Thai authorities should go and round up that small amount of them, or is that too much like work? 

[MeePeeMai]

7 minutes ago, Jaxxper said:

There does not appear to be a strictly enforced requirement to redo your TM30 every time you come back from somewhere.

This would depend on which Immigration Office you report to.

 

At my nearest Immigration Office it is strictly enforced ....and might be the case at other offices real soon.

[Tropposurfer]

Whats the point of this frigin thread ............ were all going to DIEEEEEEEEEE anyway !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!