Pattaya Versus DaNang and the winner is?

[KhunHeineken]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I totally agree. For retirement, both Vietnam and Cambodia massively trump Thailand on ease of yearly stays. But none of them offer real long term residence security. 

I'm new to this theory of "residence security."

 

Can you explain what you mean by it?

 

Either country can revoke, suspend, or change the requirements of their visas, at any time. 

 

For me, Vietnam being Communist, means it's quite a stable country. Put it this way, I can't see a Military Coup happening in Vietnam anytime soon.  Thailand, on the other hand..............????

[KittenKong]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

You are getting 1.5% on money that should be earning a lot more for, and you have lost use of 400,000 baht, perpetually.

No, I'm getting 2.5% tax-free on money that might be earning a little less elsewhere like the UK. I dont need the use of the 400kB because, as I explained, the entire 800kB has been on time deposit here for years and will stay so indefinitely. I always considered this as part of the ticket price for living in Thailand. The savings I make on things like income tax and accommodation costs outweigh it hugely anyway.

[KhunHeineken]

21 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

My cash has been on time deposit here untouched for years. I expect it to stay that way indefinitely. Not an issue for me and, as it pays interest, not expensive either.

You do know that 1.5% doesn't even keep pace with the cost of inflation, don't you?

 

It all makes for an expensive 1 year visas to live in Thailand. 

[KittenKong]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

For retirement, both Vietnam and Cambodia massively trump Thailand on ease of yearly stays. But none of them offer real long term residence security. 

Nowhere does. You want residence security? Then go home. Everywhere else you are just a tolerated guest (with the possible exception of EU nationals, who do have residence security in other EU countries).

[madmen]

Vietnam is forced to give a better Visa deal. With woeful infrastructure and abysmal medical system they really need to try a LOT harder to win over westerners. I chuckle when I read posts here that they are such a loving and warm people and simply adore farang LMAO!

Edited May 3, 2019 by madmen

[KhunHeineken]

19 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I rejected the income method years ago due to the high fee imposed by the UK consulate.

 

So I use the deposit method. The total yearly cost to me is 1900B plus 100B for the bank letter (previously free) plus perhaps 50B for photos and photocopies.

 

There is no other cost at all, apart from one hour of my time. Re-entry permits are an optional extra that would cost at most 3900B, or 1000B per trip if only a couple of trips are made. If I like I dont have to leave at all.

 

And on top of that I get 2.5% interest, tax-free, on the deposit. Previously I was getting as much as 4+% on the same deposit but those days are gone.

 

Looks like a fair deal to me.

There is the cost of what you are losing in earnings, being forced to put 800,000 baht in a Thai bank.

 

Yes, I know, you deposited it years ago and forget about it now, but it's running at a loss for you, and that loss is therefore a cost, and that cost works out to be a lot more than what visas cost in other countries in the region. 

 

 

[KittenKong]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

You do know that 1.5% doesn't even keep pace with the cost of inflation, don't you?

For the nth time, it's 2.5%. And yes I do know what inflation is. At my time of life it is generally considered advisable to split one's savings between cash or cash equivalents, plus investments that have a risk element (stocks), plus some property. Makes sense to me. So that money would probably still be in cash even if it wasnt here. As such it may as well be here where it buys me a yearly retirement extension at no extra cost to me.

[KhunHeineken]

13 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Hair-splitting. Laws can also be changed at any time at the pleasure of the government or even the head of state. My retirement extension stamp in my passport clearly gives me the right to stay here for up to one year for retirement purposes. I see nothing in Vietnam similar to this. When they get something similar I could easily be tempted to try it.

 

With or without a retirement extension, I or any other foreigner could be forced to leave Thailand overnight on a whim of the government, but that applies to anyone who is not Thai. It also applies in every other country in world including Vietnam.

I don't see the difference between the "permission" as opposed to "right"  that a 1 year Thailand stamp gives you, that a Vietnam 1 year stamp doesn't.  

 

Like you said, they can both be pulled at any tine, so it comes down to the stability of the government and their immigration laws, and as I said, I believe Vietnam to be the more stable of the two countries. 

 

 

[KittenKong]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

There is the cost of what you are losing in earnings, being forced to put 800,000 baht in a Thai bank.

 

Yes, I know, you deposited it years ago and forget about it now, but it's running at a loss for you, and that loss is therefore a cost, and that cost works out to be a lot more than what visas cost in other countries in the region. 

Again you miss the point. That money would be on deposit somewhere else if it wasnt here. I'm not "forced" to put it anywhere, but depositing it here gives me the best return when all things are considered.

 

Plus when I brought it over I got 55+B per GBP for it. These days I would be lucky to get 40+B per GBP if I sent it back, so that's nearly another 30% I've gained from it.

[KhunHeineken]

9 minutes ago, madmen said:

Vietnam is forced to give a better Visa deal. With woeful infrastructure and abysmal medical system they really need to try a LOT harder to win over westerners. I chuckle when I read posts here that they are such a loving and warm people and simply adore farang LMAO!

Have you been there, and if so, when was your last visit? 

[KittenKong]

2 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I don't see the difference between the "permission" as opposed to "right"  that a 1 year Thailand stamp gives you, that a Vietnam 1 year stamp doesn't.

I thought that one could not actually get one of those there, unless one is American? The other difference of course being that my extension can be extended here without my having to leave the country to do it.

Basically what Vietnam offers is just the equivalent of Thai visa runs. I'm too old for that nonsense.

[sanemax]

11 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

We are comparing Pattaya with Da-Nang in this thread.

 

It seems like you are in Pattaya and want to go to Vietnam , but a bit apprehensive about going and you want to be convinced to go .

   Why dont you just get a flight there , 4000 odd Baht return , get a free 15 day visa , get a Thai re-entry stamp and spend 15 days in Danang .

   With living expenses being less in Vietnam , it may even cost you no money at all 

[KhunHeineken]

6 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

For the nth time, it's 2.5%. And yes I do know what inflation is. At my time of life it is generally considered advisable to split one's savings between cash or cash equivalents, plus investments that have a risk element (stocks), plus some property. Makes sense to me. So that money would probably still be in cash even if it wasnt here. As such it may as well be here where it buys me a yearly retirement extension at no extra cost to me.

Can you tell me which Thai bank is giving you 2.5%?

 

That money could be earning more than 2.5%, but anyway, I'm not here to argue, or tell you how to run your finances. 

 

I was asked about Vietnam visas, and I have shared my knowledge of them.

 

Everyone is different, and have different things that are important to them.  

 

I travel a lot around the region, as can be seen by my Sihanoukville report.

 

I am often in Vietnam, and so my information is quite up to date.

 

If there are some people that can't abide by the new Thai visa laws, not only are the visa laws in Vietnam very user friendly, it's also a great place to live, in my opinion.  

 

[KhunHeineken]

7 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I thought that one could not actually get one of those there, unless one is American? The other difference of course being that my extension can be extended here without my having to leave the country to do it.

Basically what Vietnam offers is just the equivalent of Thai visa runs. I'm too old for that nonsense.

Ok, why didn't you say that earlier.

 

Yes, there is no official retirement visa in Vietnam.  You can stay 1 year, whether that be 4 x 3 months, or 1 x 1 year, when they are offered again, but then you have to leave, and come back, which for most, is a day trip bus ride to a boarder, or a flight for a shopping or golfing trip, or similar. 

 

That said, expats married to a Vietnamese National get a 5 year multi entry visa for $50USD, which I think can be extended inside Vietnam, but don't quote me on that.  That definitely trumps what Thailand offers foreigners married to Thai Nationals.

[KhunHeineken]

13 minutes ago, sanemax said:

It seems like you are in Pattaya and want to go to Vietnam , but a bit apprehensive about going and you want to be convinced to go .

   Why dont you just get a flight there , 4000 odd Baht return , get a free 15 day visa , get a Thai re-entry stamp and spend 15 days in Danang .

   With living expenses being less in Vietnam , it may even cost you no money at all 

2,942 baht with Vietjet.      Bangkok - Danang - Bangkok. 

[madmen]

25 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Have you been there, and if so, when was your last visit? 

Has anything changed in the last 6 months?

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

And there is also 

 

 

That's probably the busiest roundabout in Danang, during peak hour, and it was in 2011.  Vietnam has come a long way in 8 years. 

 

Would you be in fear of your safety riding through that?  

 

The Vietnamese stop work between around 11:30am and 1pm.  During this time, even the busiest of intersections like this one are like ghost towns.  It's quite funny. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

2 minutes ago, madmen said:

Has anything changed in the last 6 months?

How long did you stay, and where did you go?

[Destiny1990]

49 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Hair-splitting. Laws can also be changed at any time at the pleasure of the government or even the head of state. My retirement extension stamp in my passport clearly gives me the right to stay here for up to one year for retirement purposes. I see nothing in Vietnam similar to this. When they get something similar I could easily be tempted to try it.

 

With or without a retirement extension, I or any other foreigner could be forced to leave Thailand overnight on a whim of the government, but that applies to anyone who is not Thai. It also applies in every other country in world including Vietnam.

If u really serious to give it a try in Vietnam than u might want to start with first selling ur Pattaya condo.

This might take u longer than expected good luck!

Edited May 3, 2019 by Destiny1990

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

That's probably the busiest roundabout in Danang, and it was in 2011.  Vietnam has come a long way in 8 years. 

Would you be in fear of your safety riding through that? 

The Vietnamese stop work between around 11:30am and 1pm.  During this time, even the busiest of intersections like this one are like ghost towns.  It's quite funny. 

There are numerous similar roads to that all around Danang and there now seems to be less bicycles and more motorbikes .

  It was safer during the day , because of the amount of traffic and its light  , it got more dangerous in the evening , when it was dark , less traffic and bikes thus going faster .

   Yes, you can get across the road once , but if you have to walk across those roads ten times a night when the bikes are going faster and you have to make split second decision and whether to walk , run or stay , get one decision wrong  and you will end up with Tyre marks from your ankle to your ear

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

For the nth time, it's 2.5%. And yes I do know what inflation is. At my time of life it is generally considered advisable to split one's savings between cash or cash equivalents, plus investments that have a risk element (stocks), plus some property. Makes sense to me. So that money would probably still be in cash even if it wasnt here. As such it may as well be here where it buys me a yearly retirement extension at no extra cost to me.

U make ur visa extensions sound so simple in Thailand while for a fact they have been made into a dreadful annoying and complicated and pricey process  for most of us one way or the other.

If a newbie of example 68 years old retiree

Is coming to Thailand he likely will freak out of the whole complicated process and his uncountable visits always to the immigration office 24/7 notifications, jada jada jada home visits, trips to  his thai banks.combo 800/400 really an elderly person hasn’t got the energy to comply with all of this ..  

Edited May 3, 2019 by Destiny1990

[Destiny1990]

7 minutes ago, sanemax said:

There are numerous similar roads to that all around Danang and there now seems to be less bicycles and more motorbikes .

  It was safer during the day , because of the amount of traffic and its light  , it got more dangerous in the evening , when it was dark , less traffic and bikes thus going faster .

   Yes, you can get across the road once , but if you have to walk across those roads ten times a night when the bikes are going faster and you have to make split second decision and whether to walk , run or stay , get one decision wrong  and you will end up with Tyre marks from your ankle to your ear

 U say u live in Chiang Mai. I begin to wonder are there in Chiang Mai no motorbikes at all? Never a road accident?

 Crossing roads in Chiang Mai can do with eyes closed? Any traffic at all in Chiang Mai?

[KhunHeineken]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

There are numerous similar roads to that all around Danang and there now seems to be less bicycles and more motorbikes .

  It was safer during the day , because of the amount of traffic and its light  , it got more dangerous in the evening , when it was dark , less traffic and bikes thus going faster .

   Yes, you can get across the road once , but if you have to walk across those roads ten times a night when the bikes are going faster and you have to make split second decision and whether to walk , run or stay , get one decision wrong  and you will end up with Tyre marks from your ankle to your ear

That clip was at peak hour. 

 

HCMC is chaotic on the roads, but places like Danang and Nha Trang, no real problem at all. 

 

I don't like living in CBD's, no matter where they are, because they are busier, but for me, and everyone is different, even at that intersection, during peak hour, I would not call it overly dangerous, mainly due to the slow speeds, caused by the congestion, but it's funny how the traffic somehow still manages to flow.   

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Care to give a percentage of foreigners in Thailand that have obtained Permanent Residency? 

 

Last I heard, there was only like a dozen foreigners, nation wide, that qualified for permanent residency in Thailand. 

 

I believe the 2 year Temporary Residency Card is more to do with investing or having a Vietnam Limited Company.  I believe there is also a a Permanent Residency Card.  These are not to common with expats because of how easy and cheap the other visas are.

 

https://vietnamvisaonentry.com/general-infomation/vietnam-temporary-residence-card-2/

Thanks. Yes the percentage in Thailand is low. Sucks. Which is why I want to know of a permanent residency elsewhere. Doesn't look like Vietnam either.

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

1 change in seasoning requirements for 3000 days, for expats keeping money in the bank.  Are those odds like Russian roulette?  

So far. Relying on immigration police, the chief of which can change any day as we've just seen is indeed Dear Hunter territory.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

That clip was at peak hour. 

HCMC is chaotic on the roads, but places like Danang and Nha Trang, no real problem at all. 

 

I don't like living in CBD's, no matter where they are, because they are busier, but for me, and everyone is different, even at that intersection, during peak hour, I would not call it overly dangerous, mainly due to the slow speeds, caused by the congestion, but it's funny how the traffic somehow still manages to flow.   

That clip was in Danang and the safest time is in rush hour because the traffic is congested , its gets dangerous when theres less traffic and the motorbike drivers drive like they are in a speedway race 

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

Hair-splitting. Laws can also be changed at any time at the pleasure of the government or even the head of state. My retirement extension stamp in my passport clearly gives me the right to stay here for up to one year for retirement purposes. I see nothing in Vietnam similar to this. When they get something similar I could easily be tempted to try it.

 

With or without a retirement extension, I or any other foreigner could be forced to leave Thailand overnight on a whim of the government, but that applies to anyone who is not Thai. It also applies in every other country in world including Vietnam.

At least with a law you will get a heads up to gather your stuff and get out, since they are published in gazette. Police orders can drop without warning any second.

 

It says "temporary" on those extensions for a reason. They are keeping the farangs on short leash. For me it's temporary = one leg always out, permanent = might start a business, buy property, etc. 

[DrTuner]

42 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The Vietnamese stop work between around 11:30am and 1pm.  During this time, even the busiest of intersections like this one are like ghost towns.  It's quite funny. 

A siesta? Do they sell beer there all day or do they have same sort of idiotic rules as Thailand?

Edited May 3, 2019 by DrTuner

[KhunHeineken]

7 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Thanks. Yes the percentage in Thailand is low. Sucks. Which is why I want to know of a permanent residency elsewhere. Doesn't look like Vietnam either.

I am not sure what surety you are after. 

 

Hypothetically, if I said Vietnam offered a 5 year tourist visa, would you be satisfied with that visa?

 

How does the word "retirement" or "residency" or "tourist" make one visa more secure than the other?  

 

A stamp is a passport offers no security in this region, no matter what name it's called.  All visa classes, and requirements, can be changed at will, in any of the countries in South East Asia.  

 

At least with the Vietnam visas you don't have money tied up in the countries banking system, which can come under government control.   

 

If you are after a government guaranteed type system, the "Malaysia My 2nd Home" scheme offers a good structure, but in my opinion, there really is no need to seek out such certainty, especially if you are not buying property, or in business. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by KhunHeineken

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

A stamp is a passport offers no security in this region, no matter what name it's called.  All visa classes, and requirements, can be changed at will, in any of the countries in South East Asia.  

 

And the Thai police can cancel residency or VISA on a whim.