What Bangkok tells us about Thainess

[webfact]

What Bangkok tells us about Thainess 

By The Nation

 

 

The capital, just turned 237, surely has its flaws, but it unifies the country in ways too often overlooked

 

The anniversary of Bangkok’s dedication as the new capital of Siam, observed once again this past April 21, is in coincidental but revealing near-juxtaposition with Songkran. The latter observation never fails to illuminate the nature of the city.

 

By the time we commemorate the day that King Phutthayotfa Chulalok, first of the Chakri monarchs, declared his burgeoning settlement on Rattanakosin Island to be the new capital for a resurgent Siamese kingdom, the city has returned to its usual boisterous hive activity. But in the week prior, year after year, it’s relatively much quieter, with so many of its inhabitants having dispersed to the upcountry provinces of their origins and ancestry for the long Songkran holiday. 

 

The perennial abandonment of Bangkok during this time explains how important the city is to Thai society. The annual Songkran mass exodus and the heaving return one week later are like an exhalation and inhalation, the vast community breathing in unity. All those people going out and coming back have homes and families and childhood memories somewhere other than Bangkok, but it’s Bangkok they’ve made their new home. They’ve moved to the capital for career opportunities and to sample and savour its pleasures and rewards.

 

The emptying of Bangkok each Songkran illustrates a deep-rooted, unbreakable national bond that some politicians choose to overlook in the interest of their own career advancement, which relies on parochial divisions, on the spurious claim that urbanites are irrevocably different from rural people, that one region is superior to another. Everyone who makes Bangkok his home knows this to be false, though, whether his roots lie in the capital itself or in the remotest village in Kalasin.

 

Everyone working in Bangkok need only glance around to see colleagues who have close relatives upcountry. The janitor’s parents live in Chiang Mai. The boss is heading back to Surin for a Songkran visit with his extended family. The man at the next desk declines an invitation to join in the water-soaked revelry downtown because he misses his mother in Prachuap Khiri Khan. This is the reality of Bangkok. The stories of a big-city elite ignoring or taking advantage of upcountry people, that’s just politics. And we trust what politicians tell us at our peril.

 

Your colleagues from elsewhere in Thailand who are doing well and getting promoted are doubtless the pride of their hometowns. They didn’t come to Bangkok worried their dreams might be cut short, but rather with well-placed confidence those dreams would be fulfilled. Bangkok, and not even its elite, are going to stand in the way of any Thai with talent and ambition.

 

Bangkok certainly has its flaws. Since being designated the capital in 1782, and chiefly in modern times, it has become Exhibit A in the case against poor urban planning. The remaining canals are mostly eyesores. Greenery vanishes far faster than it can be replaced. Pollution is worsening. Traffic remains horrendous.

 

But politicians whose agendas rest elsewhere have demonised Bangkok as the hub of government. They gloss over its refusal to impose unfair rural taxes and won’t acknowledge that inequities in budget allocation are rooted elsewhere. They refuse to see that Bangkok enjoys no greater privileges than any other country’s capital.

 

Like other big cities around the world, Bangkok is a melting pot economically, socially and culturally, but it uniquely upholds family bonds that tie the nation together. 

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30368503

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2019-04-29

[Orton Rd]

It does have a nice veneer of modernity about it with some very nice buildings and an efficient mass transit system. Under that it is an almost feudal culture based on patronage and corruption with everyone wai ing the one above them, deserved or not. 

[faraday]

Tvf maxims:

 

1.

"Never miss the chance to put the boot in to Thailand"

2.

"When someone attempts to put an opposing view, call them an apologist"

 

There are many different Thai mixes in Bkk, for example. Not Thai only.

 

Many capital cities can be cold or calculating; I would not say BKK is "full of arrogant uncultured people"

 

 

 

 

[SoilSpoil]

Bangkok is a failed city. Its road system and infrastructure is beyond repair, gridlocked, and the city is sinking in its footprint. Use google maps, and especially look at the street grid to see what goes wrong. Total lack of planning, aka Thainess.

[VocalNeal]

3 minutes ago, SoilSpoil said:

look at the street grid to see what goes wrong. Total lack of planning, aka Thainess.

Many cities are not built on a grid system. That just leads to a traffic light at every corner. 

 

There are dickheads everywhere. I.E. A BMW driver not using turn signals. That is almost universal!

[ocddave]

Thainess? You mean Me-First mentality? A culture that worships money and embraces corruption, especially if that corruption benefits/elevates oneself to elite HI-SO status? A culture that openly expects the serfs to wai the rich elite who pillage them at every turn? A culture that teaches its serfs to think that they can buy a better life in the future if they only hand over all their disposable (or not so disposable) income to the Temples, thus placating the uneducated masses into indefinite servitude. Then there is the whole of Thai society that feels rules and regulations are only for other people, they could care less about your safety (or their own), and enforcement is non-existent. I would say Thainess is a failed concept.... 

[allanpatty]

It’s a working city ( as the article virtually says) So consequently place of extremely Selfish individuals who are interested in making money in whatever they can


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[GoodieAfterDark]

After reading all these comments I feel at home. I don't feel lonely anymore. I thought San Francisco was bad but after spending a couple weeks in Bangkok, I think SF is a good place, a good place for the Chinese.

[bkk6060]

19 minutes ago, ocddave said:

Thainess? You mean Me-First mentality? A culture that worships money and embraces corruption, especially if that corruption benefits/elevates oneself to elite HI-SO status? A culture that openly expects the serfs to wai the rich elite who pillage them at every turn? A culture that teaches its serfs to think that they can buy a better life in the future if they only hand over all their disposable (or not so disposable) income to the Temples, thus placating the uneducated masses into indefinite servitude. Then there is the whole of Thai society that feels rules and regulations are only for other people, they could care less about your safety (or their own), and enforcement is non-existent. I would say Thainess is a failed concept.... 

So typical of people that hate this place to say it is all about money and corruption.

Where are you from?

If honest and in touch with reality you can post this about the majority countries, cultures, religions in the world.

I have traveled to over 30 countries. If a person does not think most if not all peoples/countries are not all about the money,  they are extremely naive...

Get in touch with reality.  Thailand is no different.  Money is God just about everywhere...... 

[overherebc]

7 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

So typical of people that hate this place to say it is all about money and corruption.

Where are you from?

If honest and in touch with reality you can post this about the majority countries, cultures, religions in the world.

I have traveled to over 30 countries. If a person does not think most if not all peoples/countries are not all about the money,  they are extremely naive...

Get in touch with reality.  Thailand is no different.  Money is God just about everywhere...... 

No different from any other over-populated city in the world.

[impulse]

40 minutes ago, ocddave said:

Thainess? You mean Me-First mentality? A culture that worships money and embraces corruption, especially if that corruption benefits/elevates oneself to elite HI-SO status? A culture that openly expects the serfs to wai the rich elite who pillage them at every turn? A culture that teaches its serfs to think that they can buy a better life in the future if they only hand over all their disposable (or not so disposable) income to the Temples, thus placating the uneducated masses into indefinite servitude. Then there is the whole of Thai society that feels rules and regulations are only for other people, they could care less about your safety (or their own), and enforcement is non-existent. I would say Thainess is a failed concept.... 

 

I think you're describing Millenials.  They drive old farts crazy, too.

 

 

[bkk6060]

20 minutes ago, overherebc said:

No different from any other over-populated city in the world.

Sure yes.  Many people are trying to survive and get by.

But, there are so many who accuse the Thais as "all about the money".

They use it as a way to bad mouth Thais as if this is a unique phenomenon only related to Thais.

Very stupid.  If one is in touch with the truth like it or not, the world is all about the money.

 

[WalkingOrders]

Bangkok is a mess. You could die walking down the street. You could touch a pole and be electrocuted, you could have your head cut off by a wire hanging a neck level, you could be mysteriously be found to have jumped to your death from a rental condo. Far different then any city I have ever lived.

[nickstav]

Except, in other capitol cities around the world, when parents migrate there for their careers they bring their children with them and settle down as a family. A lot of those going "upcountry" for holidays are doing so to visit their children, who have been left behind in the care of their grandparents. The need to gravitate to the big city for factory jobs where both parents have to work long hours has torn these families apart.

[overherebc]

22 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Sure yes.  Many people are trying to survive and get by.

But, there are so many who accuse the Thais as "all about the money".

They use it as a way to bad mouth Thais as if this is a unique phenomenon only related to Thais.

Very stupid.  If one is in touch with the truth like it or not, the world is all about the money.

 

Anywhere, everywhere is all about the money except if you are a monk, priest or minister, oh, I just remembered where I left my new robes, behind the seat in my Lear jet. Can someone buy me new ones please?

[RotBenz8888]

 

All the beautiful girls is a silver lining.

[RobMuir]

I read the heading and the positive content.

And thought to myself, this will bring out the Thai haters on this forum.

 

i am only new on this forum, but been many years living in Thailand. In real life I find people love living here, as I do, but this forum is full of hatred.

It is like a club for people to complain about Thailand for people that can’t fit it here but for some reason, still stay here. 

So funny.

[spidermike007]

I seem to be an exception on this thread. Granted, I do not live in Bangkok. But I love it! Of all the many big city capitals I have been to, in the developing world, it is not only the most pleasant, but has the most enjoyable and light hearted locals I have ever seen. Most huge cities are populated by dour, bitter, disenfranchised, cold, stiff, unfriendly people. Think LA, London, Paris, Prague, and so many others. Not so in Bangkok. Sure, the city has its issues. Chief among them the horrendous air that has been plaguing the nation for four months now, crazy heat, and ridiculous traffic. But other than that it has alot to offer. I love the place. 

[luckyluke]

I like Thonglor, where I reside now. 

 

Lived previously 15+ years in Pattaya. 

[spidermike007]

3 minutes ago, RobMuir said:

I read the heading and the positive content.

And thought to myself, this will bring out the Thai haters on this forum.

 

i am only new on this forum, but been many years living in Thailand. In real life I find people love living here, as I do, but this forum is full of hatred.

It is like a club for people to complain about Thailand for people that can’t fit it here but for some reason, still stay here. 

So funny.

This forum is a place for people to vent and share their opinions. Some are very articulate and really bring something to the table. Other comments are inane and not even 15 seconds was devoted to formulating an intelligent reply. Like life, and humanity as a whole, this forum is all over the map. But, there are alot of sharp people who post here and many of them have alot to say. You just have to sift through the dross to get to the intelligence. There are not many venues we have to express our frustrations here. It does not mean we do not enjoy life here, nor does it mean we do not like Thailand and the people.

 

Some like me, love the country and the people, but despise the government, immigration and the army. Nice to be able to  express that somewhere. Complaints with a bit of information and something behind them, are always more interesting than just sheer venting, for sure. 

[JAG]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

All those people going out and coming back have homes and families and childhood memories somewhere other than Bangkok, but it’s Bangkok they’ve made their new home. They’ve moved to the capital for career opportunities and to sample and savour its pleasures and rewards

They have moved to Bangkok to work. This society is, through an inability of those in control to understand or care that there is a need to provide work, resources, effective universal education or meaningful economy infrastructure or activity beyond Bangkok; and the corrosive influence of institutional corruption on any (few) attempts to do so - entirely dependent upon Bangkok. So they come as it is their only chance to find work. There they form a pool of disenfranchised exploited minimum wage labour, many living in grinding poverty, separated from their families and roots except for (perhaps) their annual trip home.

 

One of the saddest spectacles is the up country bus

terminus in the days after Sonkran. People cramming onto the overnight buses, laden with their sacks of rice from home, children being handed back to their grandparents for another year.

 

Very sad, and a reality utterly ignored by pontificating sanctimonious editorials such as this, and might I suggest, those who label comments such as mine and "spidermikes" as Thai hating.

Edited April 29, 2019 by JAG

[WeekendRaider]

it's an even better story.  the rural areas, to which most ordinary Thai still have very close ties to of course, their most personal and social..... are largely self-policing and way way more so than in any urban area anywhere.... grow their own food and do a thousand things "Do It Yourself". 

as soon as we cross a "Earth system" dynamic, or a social thing happens to scale such as the Extinction Rebellion really gets under way.... which is equally dangerous, to scale, because "we are, after all, humans".... you either have personal control over your food including all of the logistics involved, which knocks out anyone caught in an urban zone or too close to one.... or you depend on the kindness of strangers to starve themselves and their families so you can eat.  it's not and never has been about "ice melting in 2100 something".... that was a narrative politicians used to spin before 2015-2016 to get votes from Baby Boomers.  it's always been about a real or merely perceived 'food security' issue.  

 

that's where Thailand is really self sufficient.

 

example.  too much rain in the USA.  or too much rain in the Pacific Ocean... resulting in it precipitating out, or going elsewhere, such as the Los Ninos of 2015/2016.... when we finally after 20 COP's got a signed agreement... even if it was fake (i.e. CORISA offsets in 2027, as it worked out).

 

  

Edited April 29, 2019 by WeekendRaider

[bannork]

Once you live in one part of Bangkok for a while you start to notice the community around you. The local shops, and vendors with their regular customers and the motorbike taxi boys, known by name to all the residents. Because everything is outdoors, so people interact easily. The old sit on wheelchairs outside their homes watching the world go by whilst the kids play nearby in the sois.

Walking along busy main roads with the traffic hurtling past, Bangkok seems like a desolate place, but once down the side streets and along the canals, it's easy to find communities trying to survive amidst the relentless construction of the rich forever trying to make more money.

Edited April 29, 2019 by bannork

[Youlike]

Bangkok shows thainess in it's full form...nothing is developed, it's all about money and selfishness...The word quality does not exist and it's obvious that the police has better things to do instead of their job which they get paid for.

 

[Aussieroaming]

Horses for courses, my wife love BKK and hates rural existance because she grew up in cities. I grew up in small rural places and hate the big smoke.

 

She isnt racist as such, just loves Thailand.

[Kasane]

2 hours ago, ocddave said:

Thainess? You mean Me-First mentality? A culture that worships money and embraces corruption, especially if that corruption benefits/elevates oneself to elite HI-SO status? A culture that openly expects the serfs to wai the rich elite who pillage them at every turn? A culture that teaches its serfs to think that they can buy a better life in the future if they only hand over all their disposable (or not so disposable) income to the Temples, thus placating the uneducated masses into indefinite servitude. Then there is the whole of Thai society that feels rules and regulations are only for other people, they could care less about your safety (or their own), and enforcement is non-existent. I would say Thainess is a failed concept.... 

Just so that your dark glasses come off. "...the media reported, the "richest 1 percent in the United States now own more additional income than the bottom 90 percent". There you have, elites and serfs. Many farangs here in Thailand could be living a dumpster digging life in their own country if they stayed there.

[Sticky Wicket]

7 minutes ago, Kasane said:

Just so that your dark glasses come off. "...the media reported, the "richest 1 percent in the United States now own more additional income than the bottom 90 percent". There you have, elites and serfs. Many farangs here in Thailand could be living a dumpster digging life in their own country if they stayed there.

Thailand's differential between rich and poor is the worst in the world

[Kasane]

1 hour ago, RobMuir said:

I read the heading and the positive content.

And thought to myself, this will bring out the Thai haters on this forum.

 

i am only new on this forum, but been many years living in Thailand. In real life I find people love living here, as I do, but this forum is full of hatred.

It is like a club for people to complain about Thailand for people that can’t fit it here but for some reason, still stay here. 

So funny.

Sure. TV farangs voted 32/68% in a recent informal survey. 68% want to leave. I think Thailand will say good riddance to those farangs. Many marginally survive here since their countries currencies crashed against the baht. They are bitter and carry the colonial baggage of hate of the locals. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

Bangkok is a dump full of xenophobic, cold, calculating, arrogant and uncultured people. It has no redeeming qualities. There is nothing nice or modern about it.

Sounds like Paris to me.

[Zikomat]

Life sucks. Bangkok sucks too.