SURVEY: Should Presidential candidates be required to release their Taxes?

[Scott]

Although the current US President is facing legal challenges regarding the release of his taxes, do you believe that in the future Presidential Candidates should be required to publicly release their IRS taxes prior to being allowed to be on the ballot?   If so, for how many years?

 

Please feel free to leave a comment.  

[riclag]

all politicians should release their tax returns when it is mandated by law! currently there is no law! .

To date , the current system  only requires financial disclosure forms .

"Members of Congress, candidates for federal office, senior congressional staff, nominees for executive branch positions, Cabinet members, the president and vice president and Supreme Court justices are required by the Ethics in Government Act of 1978 to file annual reports disclosing their personal finances". 

https://www.opensecrets.org/personal-finances/disclosure

 

https://www.rollcall.com/news/lawmakers-want-trumps-tax-returns-wont-release

"Lawmakers Want Trump’s Tax Returns, but Won’t Release Their Own"

[Tug]

Yes 5 years

[mamypoko]

No. The way it is now, it's easy to see who has something to hide

[attrayant]

34 minutes ago, mamypoko said:

No. The way it is now, it's easy to see who has something to hide

 

And then we vote that person into office and spend the next four years investigating one foreign entanglement after another.  Good plan.

[Thakkar]

Not only should they release past tax returns, they should release future tax returns for the next ten years, to ensure that, out of office, they do not profit from the policies they enacted. Income from book deals and speeches are one thing. Income directly from policies they enacted/pushed while in office is another.

[ThaiBunny]

3 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

Not only should they release past tax returns, they should release future tax returns for the next ten years, to ensure that, out of office, they do not profit from the policies they enacted. Income from book deals and speeches are one thing. Income directly from policies they enacted/pushed while in office is another.

Was Paul Manafort convicted solely on the basis of his tax returns or on the discrepancies between his tax returns and the results of an investigation into his business affairs?  If the latter, requiring simple (future) tax returns isn't going to enough, surely?

[thaicurious]

It should be the law to disclose all returns since legal age 18; the law should be effective immediately and apply retroactively to capture the <deleteted>

 

Also for candidates continuing onto primaries or the general election if unopposed it should be mandatory to first test & disclose results of brain scans at least for president but possibly also for Congress, Senate and Judges.

 

Disqualifying to hold office ought to be brain scan results revealing an overabundance of white matter which has been shown to cause a perception of the association of events which have no association in reality and also, especially, which causes pathological lying which by itself ought to make a person unfit for office.

 

This is particularly important now that the electoral college has been broken by partisans rather than acting as protection from con men as originally tasked...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._68

"Corruption of an electoral process could most likely arise from the desire of "foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils." To minimize risk of foreign machinations and inducements, the electoral college members would have only a "transient existence"

 

Here's why white matter matters:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2376803/

"...Liars showed significantly increased white matter in inferior, middle and orbitofrontal cortex..."

 

https://news.usc.edu/22586/Liars-Brains-Wired-Differently/

"...The facts that autistic children have difficulty lying and also show reduced prefrontal white matter constitutes the opposite but complementary pattern..."

 

Are there many autistic commercial airline pilots? Then who let this pathological liar into the White House?

 

Can you say 25th Amendment?

 

It is outrageous that the American people don't know the finances of the highest office holder. And once there are androids interacting with humans will they be allowed to run for office too? We should be able to know not just what's in the pockets of our candidates for high office, but what is in their hearts and what is in their heads. Scanning shouldn't just apply to airport security. Transparency shouldn't just apply to taxes.

 

To have a government of the people, the people must be able to hold at all times office holders accountable.

[mamypoko]

1 hour ago, attrayant said:

 

And then we vote that person into office and spend the next four years investigating one foreign entanglement after another.  Good plan.

did you read the report?

[thaicurious]

1 hour ago, Thakkar said:

Not only should they release past tax returns, they should release future tax returns for the next ten years, to ensure that, out of office, they do not profit from the policies they enacted. Income from book deals and speeches are one thing. Income directly from policies they enacted/pushed while in office is another.

Interesting but tricky. For one thing. After out of office, the policies are public to trade upon legitimately. But this is why past presidents put monies into blind trust to only move money around after out of office when everyone knows the policies, not before or during while conceptualizing or enacting those policies.

 

Besides that orange broke that rule and, I believe, is being so sued, he also now--as disclosed by the good press--presents another possible entanglement: that billion dollar debt! How does anyone lose that much money without pissing a whole host of unsavory people off? Well, who's checking their returns? And surely this is nothing but my own speculation or at best imagination but at least based on what we seem to know about the character but is it not the slightest bit possible that besides coincidentally making policy that works towards general inflation thereby inflating apparent value of his real estate holdings, could it be that others are profiting with prior knowledge of his "trade war" maneuvers?

 

Because this might not all wind up on his books; could be his debts wiped off theirs.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Rimmer
Derogatory removed

[55Jay]

Saw a reference to Trump in the MSM the other day, using the term foreign "entanglements".

 

Seems to be the new word of the week now. 

 

Used twice already in the first page of this thread.  ???? 

[rabas]

3 hours ago, Thakkar said:

Not only should they release past tax returns, they should release future tax returns for the next ten years, to ensure that, out of office, they do not profit from the policies they enacted. Income from book deals and speeches are one thing. Income directly from policies they enacted/pushed while in office is another.

No a bad concept but may be overly complicated. New immigration retirement rules come to mind.

[Jingthing]

Yes and I would add an objective non partisan psychiatric evaluation. Wanting to be president isn't normal in the first place but there are levels.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[mtls2005]

President Barrack Obama made a point of releasing his tax returns on or before the annual April filing deadline.

 

Even Richard Nixon released his tax returns, after resisting, if only to prove he wasn't a crook.

 

My goodness, even Mike Pence has released what, like 10 years worth of returns.

 

 

[user46546545]

Especially those people who have a history of bankruptcy and links to the New York mafia families like the present fool - he should make full disclosure or resign. 

[Thakkar]

42 minutes ago, IHTE said:

Especially those people who have a history of bankruptcy and links to the New York mafia families like the present fool - he should make full disclosure or resign. 

 

I think he refuses to release because he is still claiming child support for Eric. Also, he is probably worth negative billions, being kept afloat by loans from Russian Oligarchs and Saudi Princes and that he is claiming disability for having a tiny, mushroom-like penis.

 

Seeing as he refuses to release his tax returns, it would be irresponsible not to speculate.

[metisdead]

Some troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[Chomper Higgot]

“But regardless, IMHO, whether or not an elected official chooses to release their tax return or any other personal document made confidential by law (such as a birth certificate) is up to that elected official, and all the folks can judge that official at the ballot box.”

 

Given that Trump made a promise to release his taxes during his election campaign then there is a solid argument that his campaign promise was a matter influencing people as they cast their votes at the ballot box. 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Rimmer
quoted reply of removed post removed

[TigerTruck]

If it is good for one it is good for all.

[utalkin2me]

This is such an easy question.

 

They should leave it exactly how it is!

 

And when there is a candidate who will not release his returns, and who very well could be a financial criminal as far as the public knows. Well, if he gets elected that just means the country is stupid and deserves what they get. 

 

It is perfect. "Darwinism" as they call it. 

[GinBoy2]

Tax returns are a good way of assessing what a candidate says about his economic and business prowess.

 

Trump's business career is littered with stiffing his subcontractors by refusing to pay them, and defaulting on huge bank loans.

 

The reason he ended up with this weird relationship with Deutsche Bank, was simply because other bank would lend to him, since he'd racked up so many loan defaults.

 

I think we could all be crack businessmen if we worked on the principle of borrowing millions then deciding not to pay it back! 

Most of us however have a moral compass that says the we pay back our debts!

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/18/business/deutsche-bank-donald-trump.html

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed along with replies.   The topic is not about Trump's current situation.   It is about whether or not you believe presidential candidates should be required to release their taxes.  

 

[observer90210]

Not only they should but they would also need to justify all of the origin of the funds....

 

...the IRS is merciless if not ruthless with US taxpayers..... so what more normal for the leader of the great nation to give the exemple on total transparency regarding his revenue, fortune and it's origins.

[thaicurious]

18 hours ago, 55Jay said:

Saw a reference to Trump in the MSM the other day, using the term foreign "entanglements".

 

Seems to be the new word of the week now. 

 

Used twice already in the first page of this thread.  ???? 

Let's see if a quick google search bares out your rather odd perception and justifies your pathetic attempt to mock word usage of others…

 

You say that entanglements "Seems to be the new word of the week now".

 

So lets google trump + entanglements and see if that's something new or just new to you.

 

From 2015

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/donald-trump-net-worth-119063

For years, Trump’s web of financial entanglements has been of great interest, in part because of how boastful he has been"

 

From 2016

http://time.com/4433880/donald-trump-ties-to-russia/

"several of Trump’s businesses outside of Russia are entangled with Russian financiers inside Putin’s circle"

 

From 2017

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ivanka-trumps-foreign-entanglements-put-americas-reputation-on-the-line/2017/04/23/eb41325e-26ba-11e7-a1b3-faff0034e2de_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6c5eccd6cd86

"Trump’s foreign entanglements put America’s reputation on the line"

 

From 2018

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/11/schiff-will-probe-trump-business-ties-saudi-arabia/576601/

"Trump’s financial entanglements with Saudi Arabia parallel suspicions about possible financial connections to Russia"

 

Still in 2019

https://www.salon.com/2019/04/08/does-donald-trump-have-business-entanglements-with-irans-revolutionary-guard_partner/

"Does Donald Trump have business entanglements with Iran’s Revolutionary Guard"

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-trumps-tax-returns-many-unanswered-questions/2019/05/08/55f0a74e-71d0-11e9-9331-30bc5836f48e_story.html?utm_term=.311a432543fc

"Trump’s tax returns hold the promise of information about his business entanglements, relationships with foreign creditors and governments, whether he has been truthful in reporting the value of his assets, and whether he got a personal windfall from the 2017 tax bill."

 

etc

etc

etc

 

Word of the day, huh, which year?

 

And then you not only express that entanglements was "Used twice already in the first page of this thread. (but that was apparently so upsetting to you that it brought you to tears)  " which might seem to some also rather odd when the very topic involves seeking out for public review a candidates entanglements. What else did you think the returns were for? Lining a bird cage? Paper training the 1st dog?

 

Seeking out entanglements is exactly what the survey is about, exactly what the topic is about. That's what the returns do: they reveal entanglements. Mocking someone for using the word entanglements when discussing the ramifications of seeing the tax returns of an office holder would be like saying it is odd that the word dog was used in describing a dog show.

 

And this came about because while all the past presidents in the past 40 years showed what's up their financial sleeves, orange denied the public the very info he said would be forthcoming.

 

https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/17/news/donald-trump-tax-returns/index.html

MAY 20, 2014: "If I decide to run for office, I'll produce my tax returns, absolutely," he said. "And I would love to do that."

 

So this is actually why we need to see tax returns, orange tax returns and all the others of elected office holders, to better understand what might be their.....wait for it.....entanglements.

 

It’s called democracy by an informed electorate. In the words of our wise founding father Thomas Jefferson: “there is no safe deposit for these but with the people themselves; nor can they be safe with them without information. where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.”*

 

*from which comes the wrongly attributed but often quoted misquote: "An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people."

 

Which captures not Jefferson's words but does reflect his thinking. And here is the quote in context

 

* https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/03-09-02-0209

Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 6 January 1816

"...I am a great friend to the improvements of roads, canals & schools. but I wish I could see some provision for the former as solid as for the latter, something better than fog. the literary fund is a solid provision, unless lost in the impending bankruptcy. if the legislature would add to that a perpetual tax of a cent a head on the population of the state, it would set agoing at once, and for ever maintain a system of primary or ward schools, and an university where might be taught in it’s highest degree every branch of science useful in our time & country: and it would rescue us from the tax of toryism, fanaticism, & indifferentism to their own state which we now send our youth to bring from those of New England. if a nation expects to be ignorant & free, in a state of civilisation, it expects what never was & never will be. the functionaries of every government have propensities to command at will the liberty & property of their constituents. there is no safe deposit for these but with the people themselves; nor can they be safe with them without information. where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.—the frankness of this communication will, I am sure, suggest to you a discreet use of it. I wish to avoid all collisions of opinion with all mankind. shew it to mr Maury with expressions of my great esteem. it pretends to convey no more than the opinions of one of your thousand constituents, and to claim no more attention than every other of that thousand...."

 

#ShowUsYourTaxes

[mtls2005]

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

 

The U.S. Constitution (  Article I, Section 9, Paragraph 8  )

 

Emolument was probably in vogue in the late 1700's, sounds more Francais than "Entanglements".

 

Now, who wants to stay at my hotels? Assuming you want to curry favor with me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thaicurious]

25 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

 

The U.S. Constitution (  Article I, Section 9, Paragraph 8  )

 

Emolument was probably in vogue in the late 1700's, sounds more Francais than "Entanglements".

 

Now, who wants to stay at my hotels? Assuming you want to curry favor with me.

 

 

 

[heybruce]

6 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

as usual a partisan dem view who should then extend the tax question to pelosi who is married to a real estate developer, see how much they made or whether some conflict of interest emerges.

 

wbr

roobaa01

I have no problem with making it a legal requirement for all members of Congress to release their tax returns.  However the topic is Trump's tax returns.

[55Jay]

4 hours ago, thaicurious said:

Let's see if a quick google search bares out your rather odd perception and justifies your pathetic attempt to mock word usage of others…

 

You say that entanglements "Seems to be the new word of the week now".

 

So lets google trump + entanglements and see if that's something new or just new to you.

 

From 2015

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/donald-trump-net-worth-119063

For years, Trump’s web of financial entanglements has been of great interest, in part because of how boastful he has been"

 

From 2016

http://time.com/4433880/donald-trump-ties-to-russia/

"several of Trump’s businesses outside of Russia are entangled with Russian financiers inside Putin’s circle"

 

From 2017

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ivanka-trumps-foreign-entanglements-put-americas-reputation-on-the-line/2017/04/23/eb41325e-26ba-11e7-a1b3-faff0034e2de_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6c5eccd6cd86

"Trump’s foreign entanglements put America’s reputation on the line"

 

From 2018

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/11/schiff-will-probe-trump-business-ties-saudi-arabia/576601/

"Trump’s financial entanglements with Saudi Arabia parallel suspicions about possible financial connections to Russia"

 

Still in 2019

https://www.salon.com/2019/04/08/does-donald-trump-have-business-entanglements-with-irans-revolutionary-guard_partner/

"Does Donald Trump have business entanglements with Iran’s Revolutionary Guard"

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-trumps-tax-returns-many-unanswered-questions/2019/05/08/55f0a74e-71d0-11e9-9331-30bc5836f48e_story.html?utm_term=.311a432543fc

"Trump’s tax returns hold the promise of information about his business entanglements, relationships with foreign creditors and governments, whether he has been truthful in reporting the value of his assets, and whether he got a personal windfall from the 2017 tax bill."

 

etc

etc

etc

 

Word of the day, huh, which year?

 

And then you not only express that entanglements was "Used twice already in the first page of this thread. (but that was apparently so upsetting to you that it brought you to tears)  " which might seem to some also rather odd when the very topic involves seeking out for public review a candidates entanglements. What else did you think the returns were for? Lining a bird cage? Paper training the 1st dog?

 

Seeking out entanglements is exactly what the survey is about, exactly what the topic is about. That's what the returns do: they reveal entanglements. Mocking someone for using the word entanglements when discussing the ramifications of seeing the tax returns of an office holder would be like saying it is odd that the word dog was used in describing a dog show.

 

And this came about because while all the past presidents in the past 40 years showed what's up their financial sleeves, orange denied the public the very info he said would be forthcoming.

 

https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/17/news/donald-trump-tax-returns/index.html

MAY 20, 2014: "If I decide to run for office, I'll produce my tax returns, absolutely," he said. "And I would love to do that."

 

So this is actually why we need to see tax returns, orange tax returns and all the others of elected office holders, to better understand what might be their.....wait for it.....entanglements.

 

It’s called democracy by an informed electorate. In the words of our wise founding father Thomas Jefferson: “there is no safe deposit for these but with the people themselves; nor can they be safe with them without information. where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.”*

 

*from which comes the wrongly attributed but often quoted misquote: "An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people."

 

Which captures not Jefferson's words but does reflect his thinking. And here is the quote in context

 

* https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/03-09-02-0209

Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 6 January 1816

"...I am a great friend to the improvements of roads, canals & schools. but I wish I could see some provision for the former as solid as for the latter, something better than fog. the literary fund is a solid provision, unless lost in the impending bankruptcy. if the legislature would add to that a perpetual tax of a cent a head on the population of the state, it would set agoing at once, and for ever maintain a system of primary or ward schools, and an university where might be taught in it’s highest degree every branch of science useful in our time & country: and it would rescue us from the tax of toryism, fanaticism, & indifferentism to their own state which we now send our youth to bring from those of New England. if a nation expects to be ignorant & free, in a state of civilisation, it expects what never was & never will be. the functionaries of every government have propensities to command at will the liberty & property of their constituents. there is no safe deposit for these but with the people themselves; nor can they be safe with them without information. where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.—the frankness of this communication will, I am sure, suggest to you a discreet use of it. I wish to avoid all collisions of opinion with all mankind. shew it to mr Maury with expressions of my great esteem. it pretends to convey no more than the opinions of one of your thousand constituents, and to claim no more attention than every other of that thousand...."

 

#ShowUsYourTaxes

OMG!  ????

[thaicurious]

2 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

as usual a partisan dem view who should then extend the tax question to pelosi who is married to a real estate developer, see how much they made or whether some conflict of interest emerges.

 

wbr

roobaa01

No idea who you are referring to. Most of my fellow Democrats who I've known would have zero issue making the showing of returns mandatory by law and would extend that beyond the presidency.

 

As to Speaker Pelosi...

 

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/emily-ward/pelosis-chief-staff-speaker-will-release-tax-returns-if-and-when-she-runs

"House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) “will gladly release her tax returns if and when she runs for president,” said her Chief of Staff"

 

So getting Congress to make such a law might be a battle, regardless of who is at the moment in the majority.

 

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

I have no problem with making it a legal requirement for all members of Congress to release their tax returns.  However the topic is Trump's tax returns.

 

Agreed and I'd take that a step or two further as I'd already posted....

 

On 5/11/2019 at 11:43 PM, thaicurious said:

It should be the law to disclose all returns since legal age 18; the law should be effective immediately and apply retroactively...

 

Also for candidates continuing onto primaries or the general election if unopposed it should be mandatory to first test & disclose results of brain scans at least for president but possibly also for Congress, Senate and Judges.

 

Disqualifying to hold office ought to be brain scan results revealing an overabundance of white matter which has been shown to cause a perception of the association of events which have no association in reality and also, especially, which causes pathological lying which by itself ought to make a person unfit for office....

 

Transparency shouldn't just apply to taxes.

So not only am I non partisan when it comes to this issue but I'd extend transparency requirements to medical conditions involving the condition of brain chemistry, probably not yet on anyone's table, but it ought to be. Otherwise we could one day wind up with a dotard for a president.

[thaibeachlovers]

Why just presidents? Make it every politician.