Mandatory health insurance for foreigners aged over 50 in Thailand - why it may not affect you

[ThaiPauly]

10 minutes ago, alzack said:

I dont think this is off topic, but maybe you might take it on board. we returned to live in the uk 2016. my Thai wife's  UK visa was all ok, but we had to pay almost £900  (about 38,000 baht) for a 2.5 year UK national health insurance for her. Once she becomes full resident, she will of course have access to full free National health here.  So its not a lot to ask expats to have that security for health. But older ex pats could feel the pinch, if they are too old to get a policy, they could will see the bank money they need go way up.

38,000 baht for 2.5 years worth of FULL COVER is very cheap compared with insurance prices here!!

[Cranky]

4 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

Many of us have insurance. Mine is up to 18 million a year but with no OPD. OPD would almost double my already high premiuM. Who in his right mind would pay for OPD when it is so cheap.

Yes many do, quite rightly so. It's the idiots in the minority that are an issue; if they can't afford it, then like any country they are not particularly welcome!  OPD (assume you refer to outpatient) is not bank-busting like cancer or being on life support after a crash or something similar. 18 million should cover pretty much everything in LOS many times over - 1-5m is generally sufficient.

 

What I have not spotted is how much minimum cover will be required to qualify - many different policies available with a variety of levels.

[Martinpeter]

Hi there/.

 

I am now so confused? with this change?

 

I am on a Non O visa now (due for extension in July) based upon taking care of my Mixed Thai daughter?

 

Am i affected  now for purchasing insurance? mandatory yes or no?

 

what i.ve seen is OA visa's only for now?

 

 

please can you conform? help me?

 

thank you!

 

[Cranky]

2 minutes ago, ericdiam said:

Have a NON-O- retirement visa ending 27 June 2019

Will go to immigration for RE-ENTRY PERMIT

Will I need the health insurance here already this time? Or there is not change in requirements here so far?

Just curious, but why don't you have any?

[bigginhill]

13 minutes ago, alzack said:

I dont think this is off topic, but maybe you might take it on board. we returned to live in the uk 2016. my Thai wife's  UK visa was all ok, but we had to pay almost £900  (about 38,000 baht) for a 2.5 year UK national health insurance for her. Once she becomes full resident, she will of course have access to full free National health here.  So its not a lot to ask expats to have that security for health. But older ex pats could feel the pinch, if they are too old to get a policy, they could will see the bank money they need go way up.

£360 a year, regardless of age and health. 

[gunderhill]

2 hours ago, mamypoko said:

Nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated

Makes me  ill  just thinking about it!

[zydeco]

1 minute ago, Cranky said:

Just curious, but why don't you have any?

Just curious, but do you work for an insurance company?

[ThaiPauly]

IMHO if this is the way things are going with the compulsory insurance you might as well make your exit plans now because you probably won't be able to afford the premiums from 75 years old onwards.

 

I saw one of the plans touted by the recommended Thai website that if you reach 90 you would be paying a quarter of a million baht a year...who on earth can afford that?

[Torrens54]

Okay, so maybe I’m just too thick to grasp all of this..

what about those who are Retired and Married to a Thai ?

[rayw]

2 hours ago, jessc said:

I thought this article was clear and helpful, even if the rules still are not. Thanks!

However, a suggestion: should this new requirement for mandatory health insurance ever be extended to apply to extensions based on retirement, perhaps the health insurance that Thai Visa is selling (notably, right along side these articles) could also be available to the full range of retirees who've lived in Thailand for many years - - often because paying full rate for medical care in Thailand is STILL less expensive than buying insurance back home. Currently the Pacific Cross insurance Thai Visa is hawking only covers people to age 64.

The expats who will be most effected by this requirement, if applied to extensions based on retirement, are those who have retired here on a fixed income, and who have aged out of basically any insurance (affordable or otherwise) available for purchase in Thailand. So, even if financially able to buy the insurance, they can't. And, likely, have no where to go to if unable to stay in Thailand.

Well alternatives are available.  Like I hope most folks do, when I retired back in 2003 and moved here from the UK,  where of course we don't need to waste our little available spare money on health insurance, the first thing I did was a no brainer and that was to get myself a health insurance package.  The capital I then had was needed to buy somewhere to live, furnish it and get a car too, so that left me with my regular monthly works pension income and the state lension once I reached 65, and that was enough for my Thai retirement visa requirements as I had planned my retirement pension needs with my work package. 

 

So I checked and found that if you took out cover health insurance here with the then BUPA Blue Cross Insurance (Now Aetna) before the age of 60, then they would guarantee to cover you for life.  True to their word I am 73 now and they still cover me without question with no added pre existing condition exceptions to my cover that I did not start the cover with back in 2003.   Of course the premium has risen quite a lot for me now in the 71 to 75 age group, but that is expected when you are this old.  They also do allow you to pay monthly, interest free and in arrears using an acceptable Thai bank debit card. 

 

To me the two essential things I did, and thoroughly recommend all new reitees here do, and before starting to settle down to having fun here, was to get my driving licence and health insurance sorted.  I always, like most of us I am sure, had been taught from a child to get the work done and out of the way first and only then play.  Absolutely vital and very silly not to get a sutable health insurance cover immediately on retiring here, unless you have a lot of money you can and are prepared to call on it when needed. Few pensioners I know can do that though as most are living okay and reasonably well here from one pension payday to the next, as indeed I do now too. 

 

All I was not happy about with the new proposed visa scheme set oujt here yesterday, was that they were asking for Outpatient cover, which I do not want and should not need to have IMHO, as I am quite happy to pay those small outlays (usually less than a 1000 Baht a visit and often only 200-400 Baht or so unless you go to the expensive big private hospitals) as and when they arise.  Geting OP insruance cover is quite a lot more expensive than OP only which most folks get, and it also is likley each year you would make OP claims and that would mean you do not get any no claim bonus (usually 10% ) back each year when you don't end up in hospital for any illness, which is the casr for most years for most of us. 

 

As a guide I am 73 and have a good Aetna Insurance Emerald plan my monthly premium is for this year now 6740 Baht a month and that gives me 500K per illness cover, 60K Baht accidental death cover, and with 4000 a day for hospital room and service, which is more than enough for a private room at just about all good state hospitals.  Clearly though not enough for the incredibly over priced big private hospital operations that are to theri credit great hospitals (some of them the best in the World I have ever seen), but way way too overpriced and IMHO rip off, and thus for many they easlily end up with some insurance excess to pay after in patient treatment.  Most ordinary poor pensioners I know cannot afford such an excess outlay and thus look for a good Thai state hospital, as most big towns and cities have.  Such a policy for one just under 60 is way way much cheaper and indeed probably less than a 1/3 of that cost for the same cover with 2 cheaper slightly lower cover packages available too.  I have no complaints at all with them and have had several claims over the years I have been here.  In fact I have found them to be first class and extremely helpful when the time comes to need their help when you have to go into hospital.  As I said many alternatives are available but I was just trying to give some useful info as to what is available for those that want it by giving an example of my experience. 

 

To live in Thailand as a falang without any health insurance cover is IMHO very silly and irresponsible.  Getting suitable cover should be one of the very first things you do when you retire here to Thailand before the fun starts. Sorry for long post but wanted to give sufficient info to be useful.

[Cranky]

5 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Just curious, but do you work for an insurance company?

Nope.  Just wondering why Russian Roulette is so popular with travelers

[Sparkles]

1 minute ago, Torrens54 said:

Okay, so maybe I’m just too thick to grasp all of this..

what about those who are Retired and Married to a Thai ?

You're not thick.Recommendation from my Dr today was to just wait until there is more clarification.

Imm always go off half cocked and some media put their own spin on it and no 2 Imm offices operate under the same rules.

 

I share your concern being married myself to a lovely Thai lady for 15 years and her coming with me to Austalia is not an option due to the cost of living in Australia.

 

If Thailand came up with a reasonably priced  health insurance using only Gov Hospitals it would be a welcome option.

 

The Aus $ has hit an all time low in my 17 yrs here ,that doesnt help

[dinsdale]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

It also shows the total lack of professionalism at the top of the said ministry and over many decades. 

I agree but personally would replace the word professionalism with something more apt. Brains perhaps.

[zydeco]

11 minutes ago, rayw said:

Well alternatives are available.  Like I hope most folks do, when I retired back in 2003 and moved here from the UK,  where of course we don't need to waste our little available spare money on health insurance, the first thing I did was a no brainer and that was to get myself a health insurance package.  The capital I then had was needed to buy somewhere to live, furnish it and get a car too, so that left me with my regular monthly works pension income and the state lension once I reached 65, and that was enough for my Thai retirement visa requirements as I had planned my retirement pension needs with my work package. 

 

So I checked and found that if you took out cover health insurance here with the then BUPA Blue Cross Insurance (Now Aetna) before the age of 60, then they would guarantee to cover you for life.  True to their word I am 73 now and they still cover me without question with no added pre existing condition exceptions to my cover that I did not start the cover with back in 2003.   Of course the premium has risen quite a lot for me now in the 71 to 75 age group, but that is expected when you are this old.  They also do allow you to pay monthly, interest free and in arrears using an acceptable Thai bank debit card. 

 

To me the two essential things I did, and thoroughly recommend all new reitees here do, and before starting to settle down to having fun here, was to get my driving licence and health insurance sorted.  I always, like most of us I am sure, had been taught from a child to get the work done and out of the way first and only then play.  Absolutely vital and very silly not to get a sutable health insurance cover immediately on retiring here, unless you have a lot of money you can and are prepared to call on it when needed. Few pensioners I know can do that though as most are living okay and reasonably well here from one pension payday to the next, as indeed I do now too. 

 

All I was not happy about with the new proposed visa scheme set oujt here yesterday, was that they were asking for Outpatient cover, which I do not want and should not need to have IMHO, as I am quite happy to pay those small outlays (usually less than a 1000 Baht a visit and often only 200-400 Baht or so unless you go to the expensive big private hospitals) as and when they arise.  Geting OP insruance cover is quite a lot more expensive than OP only which most folks get, and it also is likley each year you would make OP claims and that would mean you do not get any no claim bonus (usually 10% ) back each year when you don't end up in hospital for any illness, which is the casr for most years for most of us. 

 

As a guide I am 73 and have a good Aetna Insurance Emerald plan my monthly premium is for this year now 6740 Baht a month and that gives me 500K per illness cover, 60K Baht accidental death cover, and with 4000 a day for hospital room and service, which is more than enough for a private room at just about all good state hospitals.  Clearly though not enough for the incredibly over priced big private hospital operations that are to theri credit great hospitals (some of them the best in the World I have ever seen), but way way too overpriced and IMHO rip off, and thus for many they easlily end up with some insurance excess to pay after in patient treatment.  Most ordinary poor pensioners I know cannot afford such an excess outlay and thus look for a good Thai state hospital, as most big towns and cities have.  Such a policy for one just under 60 is way way much cheaper and indeed probably less than a 1/3 of that cost for the same cover with 2 cheaper slightly lower cover packages available too.  I have no complaints at all with them and have had several claims over the years I have been here.  In fact I have found them to be first class and extremely helpful when the time comes to need their help when you have to go into hospital.  As I said many alternatives are available but I was just trying to give some useful info as to what is available for those that want it by giving an example of my experience. 

 

To live in Thailand as a falang without any health insurance cover is IMHO very silly and irresponsible.  Getting suitable cover should be one of the very first things you do when you retire here to Thailand before the fun starts. Sorry for long post but wanted to give sufficient info to be useful.

Wanna cookie?

[marcusarelus]

45 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Thai immigration is testing the waters, if there's no "outrage", they'll simply expand their policies to other visa classes and extensions. Which they might do regardless. It's a risk factor.

Did they test the waters for expanding the retirement extension seasoning period? 

[eddysmit]

3 hours ago, Phuketshrew said:

Not seeing the rationale here. Surely it's the older retirees that are more likely to need health insurance rather than the many younger expats married to Thai's (who probably already have health cover anyway).

Younger ones appear to need more medical treatment, and the 'older ones' tend to have a backup(with the 800/400 thousand)which many younger ones don't have, that's what I have noticed anyway.

[Nowisee]

One thing I've learned is NOT to depend on Thais for an explanation of anything of a complex nature.

Three things I do know. 

1.  I am not putting my money in the thai banking system.  I got my Non-Imm OA visa based on my proof of yearly retirement income from the Thai embassy/consulate and have lived here for 8 years using debit/credit cards and 3-4 ATM pulls a year.  No problems.

 

2.  I am not buying any Thai health insurance.  I have excellent health insurance from farangland and when I need any medical or dental care here I use my debit/credit cards as I have done many times and get reimbursed.  No problems.

 

3.  I am never getting an extension of stay here again because of the income rule change.  
IF I am unable to get a new Non-Imm OA visa in farangland as before, based on proof of income (and insurance if they need it), I am no longer staying in Thailand.  No problem. 

 

[SteveBangkok]

3 hours ago, jessc said:

I thought this article was clear and helpful, even if the rules still are not. Thanks!

However, a suggestion: should this new requirement for mandatory health insurance ever be extended to apply to extensions based on retirement, perhaps the health insurance that Thai Visa is selling (notably, right along side these articles) could also be available to the full range of retirees who've lived in Thailand for many years - - often because paying full rate for medical care in Thailand is STILL less expensive than buying insurance back home. Currently the Pacific Cross insurance Thai Visa is hawking only covers people to age 64.

The expats who will be most effected by this requirement, if applied to extensions based on retirement, are those who have retired here on a fixed income, and who have aged out of basically any insurance (affordable or otherwise) available for purchase in Thailand. So, even if financially able to buy the insurance, they can't. And, likely, have no where to go to if unable to stay in Thailand.

Hi this is incorrect, I work for Pacific Cross and we take on people up to 75 years old. I can see why you think that however as the prices quoted only go up to 65 but we are getting our site updated to include up to 75.

[Peterw42]

12 minutes ago, Torrens54 said:

Okay, so maybe I’m just too thick to grasp all of this..

what about those who are Retired and Married to a Thai ?

As the OP says some clarification is needed. All the information so far tends to lean towards only OA visa's but the announcement/statements are a little confusing and a small chance it may apply to all visa's and extensions.

I agree with the OP and I am in the OA only camp.

 

The same ideas were doing the rounds when they introduced the OX visa and insurance, the sky is falling, we all have to get insurance etc, there was lots of bag packing and a Cambodian fan club, turned out the insurance was only for OX visa.

 

OX and OA visa's are similar visa's with a lot of the same requirements.

[Jonathan Fairfield]

29 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Probably the majority of expats here (and many officers as well) say "renew visas" when talking about annual extensions in Thailand.

 

26 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Which is something nobody should be doing as it just creates confusion. One small thing everyone can do is not to parrot the immigration Thaiglish where extension=visa when in fact extension!=visa.

 

These two posts above have it right. This is the root cause of much of the confusion. 

 

And you can add to that the terms "Business Visa" and "Marriage Visa" 

 

People often say I have a "retirement visa" when what they actually have is an extension of stay based on retirement. 

 

At a guess I'd say non immigrant OA actually aren't that common. Again guessing, but I reckon most retirees staying here will be on extension of stay based on retirement

[marcusarelus]

20 minutes ago, rayw said:

Well alternatives are available.  Like I hope most folks do, when I retired back in 2003 and moved here from the UK,  where of course we don't need to waste our little available spare money on health insurance, the first thing I did was a no brainer and that was to get myself a health insurance package.  The capital I then had was needed to buy somewhere to live, furnish it and get a car too, so that left me with my regular monthly works pension income and the state lension once I reached 65, and that was enough for my Thai retirement visa requirements as I had planned my retirement pension needs with my work package. 

 

So I checked and found that if you took out cover health insurance here with the then BUPA Blue Cross Insurance (Now Aetna) before the age of 60, then they would guarantee to cover you for life.  True to their word I am 73 now and they still cover me without question with no added pre existing condition exceptions to my cover that I did not start the cover with back in 2003.   Of course the premium has risen quite a lot for me now in the 71 to 75 age group, but that is expected when you are this old.  They also do allow you to pay monthly, interest free and in arrears using an acceptable Thai bank debit card. 

 

To me the two essential things I did, and thoroughly recommend all new reitees here do, and before starting to settle down to having fun here, was to get my driving licence and health insurance sorted.  I always, like most of us I am sure, had been taught from a child to get the work done and out of the way first and only then play.  Absolutely vital and very silly not to get a sutable health insurance cover immediately on retiring here, unless you have a lot of money you can and are prepared to call on it when needed. Few pensioners I know can do that though as most are living okay and reasonably well here from one pension payday to the next, as indeed I do now too. 

 

All I was not happy about with the new proposed visa scheme set oujt here yesterday, was that they were asking for Outpatient cover, which I do not want and should not need to have IMHO, as I am quite happy to pay those small outlays (usually less than a 1000 Baht a visit and often only 200-400 Baht or so unless you go to the expensive big private hospitals) as and when they arise.  Geting OP insruance cover is quite a lot more expensive than OP only which most folks get, and it also is likley each year you would make OP claims and that would mean you do not get any no claim bonus (usually 10% ) back each year when you don't end up in hospital for any illness, which is the casr for most years for most of us. 

 

As a guide I am 73 and have a good Aetna Insurance Emerald plan my monthly premium is for this year now 6740 Baht a month and that gives me 500K per illness cover, 60K Baht accidental death cover, and with 4000 a day for hospital room and service, which is more than enough for a private room at just about all good state hospitals.  Clearly though not enough for the incredibly over priced big private hospital operations that are to theri credit great hospitals (some of them the best in the World I have ever seen), but way way too overpriced and IMHO rip off, and thus for many they easlily end up with some insurance excess to pay after in patient treatment.  Most ordinary poor pensioners I know cannot afford such an excess outlay and thus look for a good Thai state hospital, as most big towns and cities have.  Such a policy for one just under 60 is way way much cheaper and indeed probably less than a 1/3 of that cost for the same cover with 2 cheaper slightly lower cover packages available too.  I have no complaints at all with them and have had several claims over the years I have been here.  In fact I have found them to be first class and extremely helpful when the time comes to need their help when you have to go into hospital.  As I said many alternatives are available but I was just trying to give some useful info as to what is available for those that want it by giving an example of my experience. 

 

To live in Thailand as a falang without any health insurance cover is IMHO very silly and irresponsible.  Getting suitable cover should be one of the very first things you do when you retire here to Thailand before the fun starts. Sorry for long post but wanted to give sufficient info to be useful.

Do you have out patient to 40,000?

[IssanCalling]

Please excuse my ignorance, what is the difference between Visa 'O' & Visa 'O-A'... 

[TigerandDog]

3 hours ago, jessc said:

I thought this article was clear and helpful, even if the rules still are not. Thanks!

However, a suggestion: should this new requirement for mandatory health insurance ever be extended to apply to extensions based on retirement, perhaps the health insurance that Thai Visa is selling (notably, right along side these articles) could also be available to the full range of retirees who've lived in Thailand for many years - - often because paying full rate for medical care in Thailand is STILL less expensive than buying insurance back home. Currently the Pacific Cross insurance Thai Visa is hawking only covers people to age 64.

The expats who will be most effected by this requirement, if applied to extensions based on retirement, are those who have retired here on a fixed income, and who have aged out of basically any insurance (affordable or otherwise) available for purchase in Thailand. So, even if financially able to buy the insurance, they can't. And, likely, have no where to go to if unable to stay in Thailand.

Your comment about PC only covering to age 64 is completely wrong. PC accept new clients up to age 75. New clients 65 and over must have a full medical examination before being accepted. Once accepted PC will renew your plan until the day you die, even if you live to 110 or older. They have even come out with a new series of Platinum Plans for the over 50's, based on the new requirements. The same conditions with regards to age still apply.

[Chongalulu]

3 hours ago, ThaiPauly said:

So how about marriage visas, are they exempt too?

Mine was based initially on marriage which I subsequently  changed to an extension based on retirement and plan switching back to marriage in January due to financial changes. My original visa (based on marriage) clearly says Non immigrant O (not OA) so I don’t think the marriage vs retirement aspect is relevant,just whether it’s O or OA.

 

[zydeco]

4 minutes ago, SteveBangkok said:

Hi this is incorrect, I work for Pacific Cross and we take on people up to 75 years old. I can see why you think that however as the prices quoted only go up to 65 but we are getting our site updated to include up to 75.

Well, at least you admitted where you're coming from on this issue. I do respect that. Can't be sure about so many others.

[flexomike]

44 minutes ago, alzack said:

I dont think this is off topic, but maybe you might take it on board. we returned to live in the uk 2016. my Thai wife's  UK visa was all ok, but we had to pay almost £900  (about 38,000 baht) for a 2.5 year UK national health insurance for her. Once she becomes full resident, she will of course have access to full free National health here.  So its not a lot to ask expats to have that security for health. But older ex pats could feel the pinch, if they are too old to get a policy, they could will see the bank money they need go way up.

I would gladly pay that for a two and a half year policy at my age they want a 100,000 baht payment for a worthless plan

 

[TigerandDog]

Just to ad further confusion to this entire topic, there are only 6 health Insurance Companies, at present, that are authorized to provide this compulsory insurance for the over 50's. They can be found on the link in the previous topic yesterday. At this point Immigration will not accept any other health insurance issued in Thailand.

 

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, SteveBangkok said:

Hi this is incorrect, I work for Pacific Cross and we take on people up to 75 years old. I can see why you think that however as the prices quoted only go up to 65 but we are getting our site updated to include up to 75.

Is the new insurance law for expats only for O-A visa holders or is it for anyone getting a retirement extension?

 

Since you are  selling insurance for it I assume you must know.

[Odisan]

Thank you for the clari-confusion.

[Maestro]

4 hours ago, Thailand said:

As usual IO's will consider it open to their own interpretation.

Based on the available information, I see no involvement of immigration officials. The non-immigrant visa OA is issued by Thai embassies and consulates and it is they who will have to ascertain that visa applicants are compliant with the health insurance requirements.