Mandatory health insurance for foreigners aged over 50 in Thailand - why it may not affect you

[onera1961]

4 hours ago, totally thaied up said:

I said yesterday not to get your knickers in a twist as is was just going to be phased in for O-A Visa holders. These visa holders are not tying dollars up in a Thai bank and hence are being penalized for not having and extension. If it was going to be phased into extensions, most of the expat population would be wiped out in a year or two and personally, I do think that would not happen unless the Government was really serious in shaking us out.

I hope you're right. I spend 6-months in Thailand and have an O-A visa that I get every two years. No fixed amount of money to bring into Thailand every month or tie up huge chunk of money in a Thai bank. If I am forced to buy useless insurance, I will change to extension inside Thailand. After paying an agent, it will be still cheaper. I already have my ACA (Obama care) insurance not sure if they will take it or not. It has a huge deductible - 10,000USD but reimbursable throughout the World after out of pocket $10,000 USD. So basically I have self-insured myself up to $10,000 USD. I put 10,000USD in an HSA account tax free.

Edited May 15, 2019 by onera1961

[geoffbezoz]

4 hours ago, malagateddy said:

Wait and see.
I am not a gossip monger..I was told this by someone who is in a position to know things.
The same person told me over 15 MONTHS ago about meetings being set up re healthcare insurance becoming mandatory

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4 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

That is the very definition of gossip, telling an unfounded and un-sourced story.

 

If you have legitimate information that proves the OP wrong and effects all of us, why not share it, and the source.

 

Is this information, including the start date, written down anywhere ?

 

Don't take the bait. People on this forum are imaginative to say the least, anything to increase their posts.  Ubonjoe is one of the most reliable on this forum so ignore the drivel from others. Reliably informed is just another term for "Do you not think I am important ?".

[Peterw42]

18 minutes ago, ianezy0 said:

I am so confused. I obtained my OA VISA in Australia last year. So, according to the ruling, I need to have the health insurance. Yet part of the requirement for the VISA was to have a deposit of 800k in a Thai bank AC, which I had.

so, do I also have to keep the 800k in the bank for 2 month prior and 3 month after, then 400k after that?

Also, when I come to renew the VISA, am I ok to do this at the IO in Thailand?

OA visa you get in Australia and show money in the bank in Australia. Not sure how you would show money in a thai account, how would you get bank letter or statements, update bank book etc for a thai bank from Australia. No requirements for seasoning money for an OA. You can't renew an OA, you can return to Australia and get another or switch to an extension in Thailand, the extension would require the 800/400k seasoning you mention.

[onera1961]

2 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

Ubonjoe is one of the most reliable on this forum so ignore the drivel from others. Reliably informed is just another term for "Do you not think I am important ?".

He is most reliable in quoting laws only but we all know that laws don't have any teeth in Thailand as there is no judicial system to address your grievances when IOs blatantly break laws. 

[malagateddy]

That is the very definition of gossip, telling an unfounded and un-sourced story.
 
If you have legitimate information that proves the OP wrong and effects all of us, why not share it, and the source.
 
Is this information, including the start date, written down anywhere ?
 

Why should I...it sadly is the truth..in addition the same party told me in December of last year about the changes re money in bank before/after renewal of extensions.
Up to you if you want to believe me.
Remember this..expats got only 4/5 weeks notice re money in Thai banks etc prior to think it was 1st of March.[emoji6]

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[geoffbezoz]

Just now, onera1961 said:

He is most reliable in quoting laws only but we all know that laws don't have any teeth in Thailand as there is no judicial system to address your grievances when IOs blatantly break laws. 

Disappointed to here that you are inferring that Ubonjoe will only quote laws, rather than offer advice on what is actually happening.

[onera1961]

4 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

OA visa you get in Australia and show money in the bank in Australia.

I think you could show money in Thailand also. At least Washington embassy allows money in Thailand also. No seasoning is required but I think they require three months statements. Not sure if you put the money a day before your application, they will issue a visa. 

[madmen]

1 minute ago, malagateddy said:

Why should I...it sadly is the truth..in addition the same party told me in December of last year about the changes re money in bank before/after renewal of extensions.
Up to you if you want to believe me.
Remember this..expats got only 4/5 weeks notice re money in Thai banks etc prior to think it was 1st of March.

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Another one with a friend of a friend That leaked Information straight from the top level immigration bosses. oh puleez ????

[malagateddy]

Maybe do some research before making statments that the insurance isnt available
Here is a list of several insurance companies that offer the 400/40 insurance requirements. These companies have been offering this insurance ever since the OX visa was introduced, the OX has the same 400k in/40k out requirements.
 
https://longstay.tgia.org

Thailand is only catching up with many other countries globally.
Try being a NON EU citizen and wandering into a UK hospital for eg..tests re possible burst ulcer..can you imagine the cost to the UK taxpayer if the party had no insurance and no cash.!!!

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[onera1961]

1 minute ago, geoffbezoz said:

Disappointed to here that you are inferring that Ubonjoe will only quote laws, rather than offer advice on what is actually happening.

He does if someone has a complex situation. But most posters don't have complex situation. 

[bigginhill]

55 minutes ago, mosan said:

It seems to me that even with the above explanation, some still haven figured it out there is no such thing as a "Retirement Visa"...just that many people (and even some immigrations people) call "Extension of Stays" VISAs.  You either have a Non-Immigrant O-A VISA, which is issued in your home country, or you have a Non-Immigrant O VISA issued from wherever, which subsequently can be converted/extended by a "Extension of Stay" based on a reason of "Retirement" or "Marriage" or some other such reason.  

infact. I have an O from london, over 50 and financials presented , renewed in Bangkok, and even when I changed passport the new stamp says O transfer, and all the extensions do not give O or O-A . So they are the same retirement, and therefore long stay, therefore new insurance.

IMO.

and therefore I won't even bother doing extension next year.

[ianezy0]

4 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

OA visa you get in Australia and show money in the bank in Australia. Not sure how you would show money in a thai account, how would you get bank letter or statements, update bank book etc for a thai bank from Australia. No requirements for seasoning money for an OA. You can't renew an OA, you can return to Australia and get another or switch to an extension in Thailand, the extension would require the 800/400k seasoning you mention.

Thanks for the reply.

i already had a Thai bank AC from when I was working over here so I transferred the 800k before my application. I printed off an online statement which was then signed by a JP in Cairns. 

I have put 800k into a FD account thinking I would need to show this when it came to renew. But, as you inform me, I will not be able to extend or renew the OA visa in Thailand. Do I understand you correctly? Cheers

[riclag]

 original posting scared the Bejesus out of me

[DrTuner]

4 minutes ago, madmen said:

Another one with a friend of a friend That leaked Information straight from the top level immigration bosses. oh puleez ????

Even if it was a leak from one of the top shots, the dude next to him would have a differing opinion. It's all up to the whims of the Masters.

[geoffbezoz]

4 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

He does if someone has a complex situation. But most posters don't have complex situation. 

So you know most posters personal circumstances ? An amassing generalisation indeed.

[onera1961]

4 minutes ago, ianezy0 said:

I have put 800k into a FD account thinking I would need to show this when it came to renew. But, as you inform me, I will not be able to extend or renew the OA visa in Thailand. Do I understand you correctly? Cheers

Please, no visa can be renewed or extended (the date that is stamped on the visa sticker can never be extended). . Only a permission of stay can be extended. 

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, ianezy0 said:

Thanks for the reply.

i already had a Thai bank AC from when I was working over here so I transferred the 800k before my application. I printed off an online statement which was then signed by a JP in Cairns. 

I have put 800k into a FD account thinking I would need to show this when it came to renew. But, as you inform me, I will not be able to extend or renew the OA visa in Thailand. Do I understand you correctly? Cheers

You can't extend your visa but you can extend your stay, that's when you would show money in Thai account 2 months before 3 months after etc. 

[JimmyJ]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Btw, amidst all this, what about all the tourists who come here without insurance, get wracked up, snd end up having to do GoFundMe's just to get out of hospitals....

 

When it comes to tourists, apparently, the govt doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds them by requiring proof of insurance the 30 some million tourists????

 

But is ok to go after a tiny population by comparison of OA visa holders... When was the last time you heard an OA visa holder broke in the hospital and begging on GoFundMe???

This was mentioned by very few posters in the original megathread.

 

It's been my understanding that the hospitals demand one's passport if the patient is on credit and racking up a bill.

 

So how are the hospitals getting stiffed?

 

If someone is going to do a runner, it seems more likely to be a tourist planning to be here for a week or two rather than those who have decided to make their life and home in Thailand.

Edited May 15, 2019 by JimmyJ

[malagateddy]

Well alternatives are available.  Like I hope most folks do, when I retired back in 2003 and moved here from the UK,  where of course we don't need to waste our little available spare money on health insurance, the first thing I did was a no brainer and that was to get myself a health insurance package.  The capital I then had was needed to buy somewhere to live, furnish it and get a car too, so that left me with my regular monthly works pension income and the state lension once I reached 65, and that was enough for my Thai retirement visa requirements as I had planned my retirement pension needs with my work package. 
 
So I checked and found that if you took out cover health insurance here with the then BUPA Blue Cross Insurance (Now Aetna) before the age of 60, then they would guarantee to cover you for life.  True to their word I am 73 now and they still cover me without question with no added pre existing condition exceptions to my cover that I did not start the cover with back in 2003.   Of course the premium has risen quite a lot for me now in the 71 to 75 age group, but that is expected when you are this old.  They also do allow you to pay monthly, interest free and in arrears using an acceptable Thai bank debit card. 
 
To me the two essential things I did, and thoroughly recommend all new reitees here do, and before starting to settle down to having fun here, was to get my driving licence and health insurance sorted.  I always, like most of us I am sure, had been taught from a child to get the work done and out of the way first and only then play.  Absolutely vital and very silly not to get a sutable health insurance cover immediately on retiring here, unless you have a lot of money you can and are prepared to call on it when needed. Few pensioners I know can do that though as most are living okay and reasonably well here from one pension payday to the next, as indeed I do now too. 
 
All I was not happy about with the new proposed visa scheme set oujt here yesterday, was that they were asking for Outpatient cover, which I do not want and should not need to have IMHO, as I am quite happy to pay those small outlays (usually less than a 1000 Baht a visit and often only 200-400 Baht or so unless you go to the expensive big private hospitals) as and when they arise.  Geting OP insruance cover is quite a lot more expensive than OP only which most folks get, and it also is likley each year you would make OP claims and that would mean you do not get any no claim bonus (usually 10% ) back each year when you don't end up in hospital for any illness, which is the casr for most years for most of us. 
 
As a guide I am 73 and have a good Aetna Insurance Emerald plan my monthly premium is for this year now 6740 Baht a month and that gives me 500K per illness cover, 60K Baht accidental death cover, and with 4000 a day for hospital room and service, which is more than enough for a private room at just about all good state hospitals.  Clearly though not enough for the incredibly over priced big private hospital operations that are to theri credit great hospitals (some of them the best in the World I have ever seen), but way way too overpriced and IMHO rip off, and thus for many they easlily end up with some insurance excess to pay after in patient treatment.  Most ordinary poor pensioners I know cannot afford such an excess outlay and thus look for a good Thai state hospital, as most big towns and cities have.  Such a policy for one just under 60 is way way much cheaper and indeed probably less than a 1/3 of that cost for the same cover with 2 cheaper slightly lower cover packages available too.  I have no complaints at all with them and have had several claims over the years I have been here.  In fact I have found them to be first class and extremely helpful when the time comes to need their help when you have to go into hospital.  As I said many alternatives are available but I was just trying to give some useful info as to what is available for those that want it by giving an example of my experience. 
 
To live in Thailand as a falang without any health insurance cover is IMHO very silly and irresponsible.  Getting suitable cover should be one of the very first things you do when you retire here to Thailand before the fun starts. Sorry for long post but wanted to give sufficient info to be useful.

Excellent post Sir

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[bigginhill]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

You can't extend your visa but you can extend your stay, that's when you would show money in Thai account 2 months before 3 months after etc. 

so both O and O-A have the same extension. There are no differences for who is here on retirement. So we are Long Stay either with O or with O-A.   

No point in saying it doesn't apply then.

[Huckenfell]

5 hours ago, jessc said:

I thought this article was clear and helpful, even if the rules still are not. Thanks!

However, a suggestion: should this new requirement for mandatory health insurance ever be extended to apply to extensions based on retirement, perhaps the health insurance that Thai Visa is selling (notably, right along side these articles) could also be available to the full range of retirees who've lived in Thailand for many years - - often because paying full rate for medical care in Thailand is STILL less expensive than buying insurance back home. Currently the Pacific Cross insurance Thai Visa is hawking only covers people to age 64.

The expats who will be most effected by this requirement, if applied to extensions based on retirement, are those who have retired here on a fixed income, and who have aged out of basically any insurance (affordable or otherwise) available for purchase in Thailand. So, even if financially able to buy the insurance, they can't. And, likely, have no where to go to if unable to stay in Thailand.

Many in this age group have Thai families. So it appears that the government don't give a toss that the ones involved will have to desert their families if on an O-A visa.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, malagateddy said:

Excellent post Sir

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Except he has no outpatient coverage so the policy is worthless for a retirement extension.

[mosan]

2 hours ago, bigginhill said:

 

https://longstay.tgia.org/Home/Guideline

Guidelines.

---

Guidelines for applying Health Insurance for Long Stay Visa in Thailand

 

 

https://thaiembdc.org/visas/ What Type of Visa Should you Apply for?

 

 

Types of Visas	Purpose of visit to Thailand
Tourist Visa “TR” Single   Tourist Visa “TR”  Boxing training, scuba diving training  and yoga training	Those who wish to enter the Kingdom for tourism purposes.   Those who wish to enter the Kingdom for boxing training, scuba diving training, and yoga training.
Tourist Visa “TR” Multiple	This type of visa is issued to applicants who wish to enter the Kingdom for tourism purposes, with multiple entries
Tourist Visa Category “MT”	Those who wish to enter the Kingdom for medical treatment at hospitals / medical facilities in Thailand.
Transit Visa Category  “S / TS / C”	To travel in transit through Thailand to proceed to the country of destination or to re-enter his/her own country: (Category “TS”)   To participate in sports activities(Category “S”) The person in charge or crew of a conveyance coming to a port, station or area in the Kingdom: (Category “C”)
Non-Immigrant Visa Category “B”	Those who wish to conduct business (Business)/ or work (Working)/ or work as a teacher (Teaching) in Thailand.
Non-Immigrant Visa Category “M”	Those who wish to work as a film-producer, journalist or reporter
Non-Immigrant Visa Category “ED”	Those who wish to study or do an internship in Thailand.
Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O”	Those who wish to stay with family in Thailand (Thai Family) or wish to do volunteering work with the state enterprises or social welfare organizations in Thailand  (Volunteering)
Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O-A” (1 year)   Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O-X” (10 years)           http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html Thailand Visa Information : Non-Immigrant Visa "O-A" (Long Stay) Non-Immigrant Visa  “O-A” (Long Stay)   This type of visa may be issued to applicants aged 50 years and over who wish to stay in  Thailand for a period of not exceeding 1 year without the intention of working.    Holder of this type of visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year.  Employment of any kind is strictly prohibited.   1. Eligibility             1.1 Applicant must be aged 50 years and over (on the day of submitting application).             1.2 Applicant not prohibited from entering the Kingdom as provided by the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979).             1.3 Having no criminal record in Thailand and the country of the applicant’s nationality or residence.             1.4 Having the nationality of or permanent residence in the country where application is submitted.             1.5 Not having prohibitive diseases ( Leprosy, Tuberculosis, drug addiction, Elephantiasis, third phase of Syphilis) as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14  B.E. 2535.              1.6 Employment in Thailand is prohibited.       And on their page of visa's available there is no O visa  http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908   According to this retirement is an O-A and long stay and the link for the insurance is for long stay visa holders .  Have I got it wrong?	Those age 50 years and over who wish to stay in Thailand for a period of not exceeding 1 year without the intention of working. Employment of any kind is strictly prohibited.

All of that reading and you didn't notice that the word "retirement" was not anywhere to be found...

[Huckenfell]

6 hours ago, Geordieabroad said:

So it's as clear as mud

When i applied for my O-A retirement visa i had to comply with certain monetary requirements. If this does not cover the cost of health , WHAT is this money for ?

[Huckenfell]

6 hours ago, Geordieabroad said:

So it's as clear as mud

Regarding my O-A retirement visa, 800.000 Bht will suffice for quite a few Kao Phat take aways.

[malagateddy]

Except he has no outpatient coverage so the policy is worthless for a retirement extension.

He could buy out patient coverage from his insurer..or ask insurer to change his policy to both in/out patient coverage

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[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

 

If someone is going to do a runner, it seems more likely to be a tourist planning to be here for a week or two rather than those who have decided to make their life and home in Thailand.

 

The other notions that go along with that line of thinking are:

 

--If you're someone who comes to Thailand on a visa exempt or visa on arrival, basically, you can arrive with no insurance and little more than enough money to buy an airline ticket and pay for your lodging and food...and nothing else in the bank to cover emergencies. And there's many many millions of those travelers every year.

 

--But if you're coming here on an O-A visa, for starters, you've got to be able to afford every year or every other year international trips back to the home country to obtain a new O-A. You've got to be healthy enough to make those kinds of trips. And enough financials to meet retirement extension requirements--800K in the bank, 65K of monthly income or a combination of the two, just to qualify for the visa. And that O-A population is probably a group that numbers in the tens of thousands by comparison, and maybe double those numbers if they end up adding in retirement extension holders.

 

Between the two groups above, age differences not withstanding, who's more likely to end up becoming a potential drain on the government's public health system?

Edited May 15, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[riclag]

The sakon nakon IO today said don't worry about it ,if holding a marriage visa

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

He could buy out patient coverage from his insurer..or ask insurer to change his policy to both in/out patient coverage

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I tried that with A1A.  Don't work.  Who knows maybe when they announce the retirement extension insurance requirement they will want to jump on the gravy train. 

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, riclag said:

The sakon nakon IO today said don't worry about it ,if holding a marriage visa

Do you mean the IO knew what you were talking about or assumed you were talking about A-X visa?