Dirty water we have to pay for in rural Isaan

[xtrnuno41]

2 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

That  confirms the color issue is sediment and quite efficiently removed by filters. Before I installed a bore and pump we had same issue. Then we had a  3 stage  cartridge system. In the  first two I used the  5 micron followed by the  1  micron and in the  3rd a carbon. Problem was that the filters  clogged  quickly.

To offset the  cost of  constant replacement I resorted to "peeling the filters  a few times and  putting another 1 micron  in place of the  carbon. The water was clear  but never did I trust it  for more than washing laundry etc. due to concerns  sediment filters do nothing to remove chemical pollutants.

Nearby a German  expat has used to  sand  tower system mentioned plus a reverse osmosis  system which  feeds into a large stainless steel tank. He drinks that water with no issues.

There  are many options but the drawback to  small systems is the capacity for  household general consumption.

My  eventual choice was to  go to a deep bore which luckily  is clean but has a moderate  lime content. No problem  for  general household use apart from lime scaling  in the  toilets and showers.

But I still  buy drinking  water.

 

 

Good thinking of german, sand filter for bigger pollutions for RO installation and then RO system for the rest, also takes care for the chemicals. An additional UV light system is killing germs and bacterias and then you can use it for what ever, its clean. Cheers !

I think for chemical compounds it is needed, Thai use chemicals to kill palm trees and probably some chemicals for growing vegetables. All those chemicals end up at one point in the ground water. If you have good neighbours, you could have one system for the both of you. Probably  lazada, but otherwise try alibaba or express, ok you have to import it and wait.

But be aware you have a real RO. I believe they call everything now RO for a good sale. A real RO filter has a high pressure pump in its system.

A real RO squeezes the water through very tiny holes (filters), based on molecules.

The water molecules are smaller then organic poisons and chemicals molecules.

So before the RO you do have to filter out bigger parts, otherwise the RO filters gets loaded. However there should also be a regenerating proces in it, so then it goes reverse and pushes the contaminations in the filter elements out, for reuse again. Ok finally some time you have to replace.

It has an own high pressure pump for squeezing. And then dont forget the UV light placing it afterwards to kill germs and bacterias.   

In Israel they use those systems (very big ones) for making sweet water out of salt water!

 

DOnt know about the ops if he can suggest it to its city water supplier, but also they can have a settling tank, as i read that helped, or both. I dont know how they used the money for the watersystem, but still there is a cleaning issue, filters. 

If the water is leaving the water system clean, than you could have another problem.

Like a leakage in the main big pipe, as many people have problems, it can have a leakage and water in which is the pipe (underground) is by suction, ejector working, sucking in dirty water.

 

 

[Dario]

1 hour ago, Dario said:

I feel overwhelmed by all the advice and help I get in this thread! Thanks so much to every contributor. To the woodworker: thanks for all the pictures. I think I'll go for your solution. I'll buy another 1'000 L water tank at HomePro (link to the tank) and have them connected. and can store together a total of 2'050 litres of water at the same time. I don't like the idea of stocking lots of replacement filters and change them every week. My wife just said that the pump (a 240W Mitsubishi) has just given up again, electrician will come tomorrow.

I just checked at HomePro, for a start the two 1'050 L water tanks are nowhere, i repeat, nowhere in stock, that's 94 stores! Not amazing, we're in Thailand ... Special price, but nowhere available, bravo HomePro.

Wait, I'm probably wrong! Actually, the OUT OF STOCK is greyed out, so they are available then in all 94 stores. Sorry, HomePro, mea culpa! 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Dario
mistake written

[itsallmine68]

Drill your own well for family use and use the town water for garden etc

It sounds like too many people are using the main system and it cannot keep up and therefore dirty water

[55Jay]

If you are out in the boonies, if you haven't already, develop your rain water catch system off the house roof line.  Put more holding tanks in for that, and link them into the house system with a valve or two.  Love rain water, it's great. I don't collect now, we live near the highway and the city, but I used to love working the hoses and filling up all the pots and tanks in the rain season out in the sticks.  Kinda miss that in a way....weird.

Edited May 22, 2019 by 55Jay

[gunderhill]

You cant rely on anything in Thailand, 21st century still cant get clean water to their own people but plenty of funds for dumb subs or HS  Trains in a  land where rain is plentiful, I find it pathetic.

Best REAL alternative is to drill your own well, no its  not cheap but the less you rely on any Thais  the better.

If  its anything like around  here the pump often goes off (broken) or the water has run out or  best of all and my favourite  is they didnt have any money to pay the electric  bill about 3  weeks  ago. I only use  village water for trees its often black,frequently full of air, contains snails which block the taps (or  used to) until I did the wells.

 

[55Jay]

Just now, gunderhill said:

You cant rely on anything in Thailand, 21st century still cant get clean water to their own people but plenty of funds for dumb subs or HS  Trains in a  land where rain is plentiful, I find it pathetic.

Best REAL alternative is to drill your own well, no its  not cheap but the less you rely on any Thais  the better.

If  its anything like around  here the pump often goes off (broken) or the water has run out or  best of all and my favourite  is they didnt have any money to pay the electric  bill about 3  weeks  ago. I only use  village water for trees its often black,frequently full of air, contains snails which block the taps (or  used to) until I did the wells.

 

You're right about that.  Always a head shaker why a country with as much rain fall as it has, is stricken with predictable boom and bust seasons as they are, every year. 

 

With labor as cheap as it is (imported), after all these years, no excuse for Thailand not being the poster child for smart water/rainfall management and distribution systems. 

[Lacessit]

Before rushing in and spending on expensive fixes, it would be good to determine what the cause of the yellow colouration is. If it's a colloid, it is better to flocculate it out first, as filters are inefficient. Even worse, if it is iron in solution, no amount of filtering will remove it. Universities have laboratories which can determine what the cause of the contamination is.

[Dario]

Once I am sure that the cause of the discolored water is only sediment, I think this is what I would do: buy another 10000 L water tank to let set the sediment, then pump it to the second tank, the water should be pretty clear by now. In addition I would connect a filter as shown by member KhunBENQ between the second tank and the pump. What do our experts think about this?

I did a test with some of that dirty water in a wine glass yesterday evening. This morning when I looked again, the sediment had settled on the ground. though the water surface didn't seem to be clean. I wonder why,

 

[shaemus]

15 minutes ago, Dario said:

Once I am sure that the cause of the discolored water is only sediment, I think this is what I would do: buy another 10000 L water tank to let set the sediment, then pump it to the second tank, the water should be pretty clear by now. In addition I would connect a filter as shown by member KhunBENQ between the second tank and the pump. What do our experts think about this?

I did a test with some of that dirty water in a wine glass yesterday evening. This morning when I looked again, the sediment had settled on the ground. though the water surface didn't seem to be clean. I wonder why,

 

That is quite a discoloured water. The post above mentioned using a floculent. It is very cheep here in Thailand. I can't remember the exact name. But it is a clearish white crystal. It's available everywhere. Experiment with that as well. As for the Comment above about removing iron, the water need to be ariated then the iron oxidises and solidifies and is easily filtered out. 

[AJBangkok]

The first thing I would do is clean out your own water tank. If the water is coming out like that then it’s bound to be very dirty.

[sometimewoodworker]

49 minutes ago, Dario said:

Once I am sure that the cause of the discolored water is only sediment, I think this is what I would do: buy another 10000 L water tank to let set the sediment, then pump it to the second tank, the water should be pretty clear by now. In addition I would connect a filter as shown by member KhunBENQ between the second tank and the pump. What do our experts think about this?

I did a test with some of that dirty water in a wine glass yesterday evening. This morning when I looked again, the sediment had settled on the ground. though the water surface didn't seem to be clean. I wonder why,

Unless you really need the second tank to be at a different level do not pump between the tanks, let the water flow between them with the level controlled in the first tank.

 

if you want to have the best result before allowing the new tank to fill from your current tank:

2) clean the old tank, it will have a layer of mud on the bottom,

1) arrange your new pipes making sure you have enough stop valves and a bypass from your incoming (village supply) with a non return valve and a stop valve.

3) fill your old tank and let the water sit for at least 2 days (check to see that it has cleared, if not wait until it has).

4A) turn off the village water to the old tank.

4B) turn on the stop valve between the 2 tanks.

5) check to see if the water is still reasonably clear 

6) repeat filling the old tank, letting it settle turning off village water and turning on the balance between the tanks until they are full.

7) turn off the bypass and turn on the tanks

 

filter after the pump which is after both the tanks.

 

during the week or so that you are conditioning the water you will be pumping directly from the village water supply, this is usually not acceptable practice but as it will only be for a short period it will be no problem 

 

remember the non return valve valve in the bypass as you don't want to pump back into the village supply. I would also put a non return valve and stop valve on the outlet from the tanks and before the bypass joins the pipe going to the pump, this will avoid village water feeding directly into the second (cleaner) tank.

Edited May 23, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[Dario]

1 hour ago, shaemus said:

That is quite a discoloured water. The post above mentioned using a floculent. It is very cheep here in Thailand. I can't remember the exact name. But it is a clearish white crystal. It's available everywhere. Experiment with that as well. As for the Comment above about removing iron, the water need to be ariated then the iron oxidises and solidifies and is easily filtered out. 

My wife bought some floculent yesterday, yes looks like a crystal, apparently well known by rural villagers. If I'm not mistaken, the Chinese here use this instead of a deodorant.  

[Dario]

1 hour ago, AJBangkok said:

The first thing I would do is clean out your own water tank. If the water is coming out like that then it’s bound to be very dirty.

Of course!

[johng]

2 hours ago, Dario said:

My wife bought some floculent yesterday, yes looks like a crystal

Its probably Alum crystal   I can't for the life of me remember the Thai name for it..but its widely available at the traditional markets and very cheap.

[johng]

My wife tells me the Thai name is "sarn som"

[Lacessit]

9 hours ago, shaemus said:

That is quite a discoloured water. The post above mentioned using a floculent. It is very cheep here in Thailand. I can't remember the exact name. But it is a clearish white crystal. It's available everywhere. Experiment with that as well. As for the Comment above about removing iron, the water need to be ariated then the iron oxidises and solidifies and is easily filtered out. 

Sorry, the clearish white crystals are water softeners. They exchange calcium and magnesium ions for sodium i.e. remove water hardness.

Flocculation is achieved by either adding bentonite clay or adjusting pH. Or both.

Oxidising iron from the ferrous to the ferric state will not change its solubility.

Let me gently suggest you are not a professional chemist.

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Sorry, the clearish white crystals are water softeners. They exchange calcium and magnesium ions for sodium i.e. remove water hardness.

Flocculation is achieved by either adding bentonite clay or adjusting pH. Or both.

Oxidising iron from the ferrous to the ferric state will not change its solubility.

Let me gently suggest you are not a professional chemist.

It would appear that you are missing the fact that.

Quote

 aluminium sulfate or alum is used as a flocculant to remove unwanted colour and turbidity from water supplies. it has been used since ancient times for this purpose and its use together with filtration is standard practice in conventional water treatment processes around the world.

 

[Lacessit]

8 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It would appear that you are missing the fact that.

 

You're right, I missed that. I omitted to mention ferric chloride is more commonly used, as it is cheaper than aluminium sulphate. As ferric chloride is yellow/brown, I didn't want to confuse the OP by recommending he add more yellow.

It's moot whether the crystals are aluminium sulphate, a water softener, or a zeolite. However, as the post mentions use as a flocculant, most probably aluminium sulphate.

Irrespective of whether ferric chloride or aluminium sulphate is used, pH adjustment is necessary to achieve flocculation. Both chemicals are acidic.

[Dario]

I just came across a very interesting video which shows a system to collect rainwater, here. This kind of water supply eliminates the sediment problem. The negative side of it is the dry season. If there is no rain for weeks (or months) means I'd be unable to draw water from the sky. The positive side is the relatively clean water. Impurities can be solved with a filter. 

What do you think about this?

[sometimewoodworker]

35 minutes ago, Dario said:

I just came across a very interesting video which shows a system to collect rainwater, here. This kind of water supply eliminates the sediment problem. The negative side of it is the dry season. If there is no rain for weeks (or months) means I'd be unable to draw water from the sky. The positive side is the relatively clean water. Impurities can be solved with a filter. 

What do you think about this?

Many/most village people collect and use rainwater all you need to do is buy or build as much storage as you want, one of the original design uses for our 7,500 litres of storage was for rain water but at about a 40 Baht monthly bill or 10 Baht per cubic meter and with a reasonably clean village water supply I haven't bothered to reroute the gutters to feed them.

 

Some people in the village use rainwater exclusively most do not filter the water at all.

 

We currently have about 3 months normal use storage (that includes using quite a lot for washing) but have enough space to easily expand to 3 or more times that.

 

Our roof could fill the tanks with one or two typical rainfalls with only a couple of the downspouts feeding into the tanks

[billd766]

On 5/22/2019 at 12:02 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

FWIW you can completely avoid the problems associated with having to change your filters as often as you will need to. It's virtually certain that you have clay or similar content in your water. 

 

When the  neighbours come round to us they are amazed that our water is crystal clean. We are using exactly the same supply as they are. The difference is that we have three large tanks that the village water feeds into before it's pumped into our ready use tank. So any solid impurities have time to settle out. The actual reason for the tanks are as a reserve supply but they incidentally work perfectly as setting tanks.

 

So add a second tank, feed your current tank from that and the majority of your problems will be gone. You can add a filter to that system (after the pump not before) if it still isn't clear enough.

 

Just add a filter and you will be changing cartridges very often as you have so much suspended matter in the water.

I use 20 concrete ongs in 5 rows of 4, all cross connected. The government water goes into them and the heavy sediment falls to the bottom and I get clear water out. They go to the pump and into a big filter. We use the water for laundry, showers, toilets, washing up etc and sometimes for cooking.

 

I started 15 years ago with 4 ongs, increased that to 8 a year later and I now have 20 with 7 spares that are not connected but I can drop a big fishpond pump in them and pump across to the main tanks. Each ong holds 1,700 litres but only 1,500 are useable.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Dario said:

I just came across a very interesting video which shows a system to collect rainwater, here. This kind of water supply eliminates the sediment problem. The negative side of it is the dry season. If there is no rain for weeks (or months) means I'd be unable to draw water from the sky. The positive side is the relatively clean water. Impurities can be solved with a filter. 

What do you think about this?

We collect rainwater from one side of the roof and store it in 2 x 3,000 litre stainless steel tanks and we use that for drinking, cooking. We moved the tanks to a new better location.

[Dario]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

We collect rainwater from one side of the roof and store it in 2 x 3,000 liters stainless steel tanks and we use that for drinking, cooking. We moved the tanks to a new better location.

 

Thanks Bill, interesting. May I ask from how many points from your roof do you collect the rainwater? Only one, or more?

[billd766]

13 minutes ago, Dario said:

Thanks Bill, interesting. May I ask from how many points from your roof do you collect the rainwater? Only one, or more?

Just from one side down the guttering via a funnel and through 2 inch blue water pipes to the junction in between the 2 tanks. That feeds into a 2 inch to 1 inch reducer then into the top of the tanks.

 

I will try to get a couple of photos later and post them.

[55Jay]

The guy in the US/Sonoran desert link OP put up earlier ^, man that's a nice set up!  Like how the tops of the tanks are more accessible for inspection, maintenance and cleaning (inside).

 

Just thoughts from the peanut gallery after working gutters and hoses for rain water collection.  For your consideration or amusement.  Apologies if too commonsensical - I was just learning as I went, adding on like Legos bit by bit over a few years in the village.

 

1. Birds get in uncovered roof rain gutters and build nests.  I've had sparrows get in there and die, eggs that didn't hatch and rotted away, etc.  So make sure you let the roof flush a few times before you start catching the water for storage.  Mindful that the bird's nests/dead animals may also foul up the downcomer pipe, causing the gutters to overflow in a big downpour, and all that water weight must strain the light hardware holding it up there.  I also didn't have a high enough ladder (2 story house) to get up there, but probably wouldn't have anyway. Local workers weren't enthusiastic about doing it either.

 

2.  I was just able to squeeze through the top access hole on our small, 1,000L (unfiltered) village water tank - get in once a year, scrub the walls and scoop out the sludge on the bottom.  Obviously a pre-filter before tank, and shade from direct sun, would help a lot.  But keep this in mind when choosing really big tanks, 2,000L+ size.  You need a tall ladder to access the top hatch, which, at least on mine, were even smaller than the access hole on my smaller 1,000L tank.  I never tried getting in the big tanks, also knowing I would never get the hell out if I did.  ????

 

3.  On that note ^ (and I am not a plumber by any means) consider screw connections or a quick disconnect link on the pvc pipes between the tanks, so when one's empty, you can isolate, disconnect and lay the tank over on its side for cleaning w/o having to cut the pvc and glue in a link each time. 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, 55Jay said:

The guy in the US/Sonoran desert link OP put up earlier ^, man that's a nice set up!  Like how the tops of the tanks are more accessible for inspection, maintenance and cleaning (inside).

 

Just thoughts from the peanut gallery after working gutters and hoses for rain water collection.  For your consideration or amusement.  Apologies if too commonsensical - I was just learning as I went, adding on like Legos bit by bit over a few years in the village.

 

1. Birds get in uncovered roof rain gutters and build nests.  I've had sparrows get in there and die, eggs that didn't hatch and rotted away, etc.  So make sure you let the roof flush a few times before you start catching the water for storage.  Mindful that the bird's nests/dead animals may also foul up the downcomer pipe, causing the gutters to overflow in a big downpour, and all that water weight must strain the light hardware holding it up there.  I also didn't have a high enough ladder (2 story house) to get up there, but probably wouldn't have anyway. Local workers weren't enthusiastic about doing it either.

 

2.  I was just able to squeeze through the top access hole on our small, 1,000L (unfiltered) village water tank - get in once a year, scrub the walls and scoop out the sludge on the bottom.  Obviously a pre-filter before tank, and shade from direct sun, would help a lot.  But keep this in mind when choosing really big tanks, 2,000L+ size.  You need a tall ladder to access the top hatch, which, at least on mine, were even smaller than the access hole on my smaller 1,000L tank.  I never tried getting in the big tanks, also knowing I would never get the hell out if I did.  ????

 

3.  On that note ^ (and I am not a plumber by any means) consider screw connections or a quick disconnect link on the pvc pipes between the tanks, so when one's empty, you can isolate, disconnect and lay the tank over on its side for cleaning w/o having to cut the pvc and glue in a link each time. 

 

Fortunately for me I am now too old and fat to climb into the ongs but I have to get my wife to find a body to do the job. Normally I run the tanks in a row down, then undo the plug at the bottom to drain the rest of the water out.

It is possible to scrub most of the tank by standing on a stool with a stiff yard brush and flush it clear. Then I chuck 1 litre of Thai white vinegar in the ong and fill it up. Be careful not to leave them dry too long as the may crack or blow open.

 

I fill each row from the top and to shut off the water flow I use ordinary ball cocke from a toilet.

 

Unfortunately with my ong farm I cannot lay any on their sides to clean them 

 

Try to leave at least 1 metre clear around the tanks so that you can access them from all sides. I only left about 60 cm and it is difficult at times. Figure that a 1,700 litre ong weighs close on 2 tons when it is full and you need a good solid base for them to stand on. My base is OK but in retrospect I should have made the base 10 metres wide and 12 metres long with the base being about 10 to 15 cm of concrete and rebar mesh. I also forgot to put a drainage runaway around the base.

 

Figure about 15 to 30 minutes per ong and try to start early in the morning before it starts to get hot.

 

We get somebody to clean the gutters and the downpipe about this time of year and as you say let 3 or 4 days of heavy rain pass before draining into the tanks.

[Huckenfell]

On 5/26/2019 at 11:24 AM, Dario said:

I just came across a very interesting video which shows a system to collect rainwater, here. This kind of water supply eliminates the sediment problem. The negative side of it is the dry season. If there is no rain for weeks (or months) means I'd be unable to draw water from the sky. The positive side is the relatively clean water. Impurities can be solved with a filter. 

What do you think about this?

I lived on rain water in Queensland for 30 years.(Family of 4) I had two very large water tanks and never ran out. The rainfall there is about the same as here with wet and dry seasons. Have you ever thought of drawing water from under the ground

[Huckenfell]

On 5/22/2019 at 11:33 PM, 55Jay said:

You're right about that.  Always a head shaker why a country with as much rain fall as it has, is stricken with predictable boom and bust seasons as they are, every year. 

 

With labor as cheap as it is (imported), after all these years, no excuse for Thailand not being the poster child for smart water/rainfall management and distribution systems. 

Australia already are, they don't waste water like we do here. Back in Queensland i had 2x 25,000 tanks and for 30years never ran out of water. every house has got gutters but its mainly the country areas which save the rain water. A good tropical downpour soon filled my tanks up. Here a house with rain gutters is almost like hens teeth.

 

[Huckenfell]

On 5/26/2019 at 1:24 PM, billd766 said:

I use 20 concrete ongs in 5 rows of 4, all cross connected. The government water goes into them and the heavy sediment falls to the bottom and I get clear water out. They go to the pump and into a big filter. We use the water for laundry, showers, toilets, washing up etc and sometimes for cooking.

 

I started 15 years ago with 4 ongs, increased that to 8 a year later and I now have 20 with 7 spares that are not connected but I can drop a big fishpond pump in them and pump across to the main tanks. Each ong holds 1,700 litres but only 1,500 are useable.

How funny. If you really want to see how a water tank should be  just GOOGLE   " Poly Water tanks Queensland"  i had two 25,000 ltr ones. What total do these hold  .  Here in Thailand we have no idea about saving water, no gutters so it just runs off the roof. And then here on Samui there is a water shortage every year. How stupid !

Edited May 30, 2019 by Huckenfell

[grollies]

4 hours ago, Huckenfell said:

How funny. If you really want to see how a water tank should be  just GOOGLE   " Poly Water tanks Queensland"  i had two 25,000 ltr ones. What total do these hold  .  Here in Thailand we have no idea about saving water, no gutters so it just runs off the roof. And then here on Samui there is a water shortage every year. How stupid !

Talk about stupid, Australia has the answer for their drought problem here. Well worth watching.