Shooting at Virginia Beach municipal centre leaves 12 dead, including suspect

[FritsSikkink]

6 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Wrong!!!!

Sure, buy more guns and kill each other, what do I care.

Oh wait, I will do it the USA way:

Thoughts and prayers.

Edited June 1, 2019 by FritsSikkink

[Tropposurfer]

Sad sad traumatic event

US gun laws are bizarre!

the ease of buying firearms in transporting across state lines is also ridiculous.

change the constitution ... yeah pigs will fly !

[ThaiBunny]

In my circle of friends it's known as "the American way of death"

[JimmyTheMook]

1 hour ago, darksidedog said:

The posts above confirm that everyone it seems, with the exception of Americans realises there is a major gun control issue in the country. One wonders how massive a tragedy has to strike before they get the situation under control. Gun manufacturers and the NRA cannot be allowed to continue to profit at the expense of so many innocent lives.

 

It ain't the guns - it's something in the culture.

 

Remember when Sears sold guns thru the mail?

LL Bean used too as well - Pawn shops had them lined up next to 

the hocked watches in the front windows.

 

I lived in Texas for a bit and old Ladies had pistols in their handbags.

 

Lots of guns around for a long long time in USA, seems the mass killings 

is something new - something about USA.

 

 

[Catoni]

High moral standards have pretty well been destroyed in the U.S. over the past sixty years or so.

   Many causes...one parent fatherless families, brainwashing of kids in schools with secular humanistic “no moral absolutes” philosophy and socialism. 

     Violent Hollywood movies...violent video games. Demands for instant gratification.......ad Infinitum....ad infinitum..... 

   Sadly, the U.S. has become a nihilistic society. It will get worse....no matter who’s president....Democrat or Republican. Democrats will just make the destruction a bit faster than the Republicans will. That’s all. 

    Same thing happening to many western nations. 

   Happy I won’t live to see the final outcome. 

    

[silverhawk_usa]

19 minutes ago, JimmyTheMook said:

 

It ain't the guns - it's something in the culture.

 

Remember when Sears sold guns thru the mail?

LL Bean used too as well - Pawn shops had them lined up next to 

the hocked watches in the front windows.

 

I lived in Texas for a bit and old Ladies had pistols in their handbags.

 

Lots of guns around for a long long time in USA, seems the mass killings 

is something new - something about USA.

 

 

You do have a point.  I listened to a speaker today with the theory that the U.S. has become a confrontational society.  Place the blame where you may.  Mediation and discourse is no longer considered.  If you feel wronged, the current society now seems to first confront the perceived source with anger, force and malice.  A sad situation.

Edited June 1, 2019 by silverhawk_usa
typo

[lannarebirth]

2 minutes ago, oilinki said:

The knife attack in Japan was a top story. This is never was. 

 

It probably tells quite well how the world think is normal and not normal in these countries. 

 

- Did you hear about the attack in Virginia?

- No, what happened?

- Shooter, 12 people killed!

- Ok. What's for lunch. Pizza?

 

There is no budget for unstable (mentally ill) persons. There is a tremendously high budget to combat political or religious nutters who are likewise mentally unstable. In America it's all about how you sell it.

[lannarebirth]

2 minutes ago, oilinki said:

That's another great shortcoming of USA. People have no longer any real and genuine pride of the society. There is only money, which trumps everything else. 

 

That's not very good deal for the common people. 

No, it is not.

[Tug]

2 hours ago, pegman said:

Can you tell us what the hell would be a "valid reason to own an assault rifle"?

Well I know the gun nuts will claim home defense personally I prefer a hand gun for that also mr pegman  I had an assault rifle it was fun to shoot but after parkland and listening to those hurting kids I took it to my shop and cut it in half right through the receiver it’s now part of a sculptor 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Tug
Damm auto spelling lol

[Emdog]

It is an epidemic of gun violence. The Center for Disease Control (CDC) is prohibited from studying this epidemic due to pressure of gun lobby on legislators. And while mass shootings grab headlines, they account for only a small fraction of the 30,000 gun deaths a year in the United States. More than half are suicides.

In two years, the number of deaths from guns in US exceed all the dead from our war in Vietnam. Put that in your pipe and smoke it

[lannarebirth]

Just now, Tug said:

Well I know the gun nuts will claim home defense personally I prefer a hand gun for that also mr legman I had an assault rifle it was fun to shoot but after parkland and listening to those hurting kids I took it to my shop and cut it in half right through the receiver it’s now part of a sculptor 

 

Personally, I can't think of a valid reason to own a handgun either. Especially a semi automatic one with a large magazine. 

 

I'm kind of an accidental gun owner. I bought a nickel and chrome plated ( Mariner Grade) pump action shotgun back in 1987 for a single handed sailing cirgumnavigation I was planning. I got a great job offer instead and it's been laying under the bed in it's case with a trigger lock and no ammo ever since.

[Emdog]

7 minutes ago, brycspain said:

Wow, hearing the moral concern from leftists is heart wrenching considering Planned parenthood has killed 60 million babies since Roe vs. Wade.  Guns don't kill people, people kill people.  It's blaming the knife instead of the Doctors (Not in some cases) for those 60 Million deaths.  The reason nobody cares about it anymore is because you politicize it instead of actually trying to fix the problem.

They are not babies. Get your terms straight. I suppose you are at the front of pushing for easily affordable birth control, pre natal health care, job training and day care for single mothers, stern enforcement of child support laws, etc etc. Am I right? Or does you caring end once an unwanted child is born to unwilling, unprepared mother?

[brycspain]

42 minutes ago, silverhawk_usa said:

Obviously, I am an American.  And a retired police officer.  I am absolutely in favor of gun control and background checks.  One must be practical and realistic to address this problem.  You will never be able to take all the guns away. I am not defending this, but realistic and workable solutions must be found.  i wish I had the answer, but I don't.  As usual, posts are jumping to conclusions.  As of this writing a news conference just finished.  An assault rifle apparently was not the weapon, but a semi-automatic pistol. Yes, with a sound suppressor and multiple extended magazines, so it doesn't much matter what it was. 12 victims and one shooter dead.  This should always be newsworthy.  When it is treated as a common occurrence, and no one cares or listens, it will only get worse.

Thank you for your service.  I think the solution is first, get rid of gun-free zones, second, fix the 1st Amendment and then you can start working on the second amendment.  Stop politicizing the events by holding news agencies responsible.  Also, the State and Federal governments aren't prosecuting gun crimes at a very high rate.  Pass a law (I know criminals don't follow laws but hear me out) that says if you use a gun to commit a crime, you will spend 30 years in jail unless you murder someone and then you get life.  Also, fix the background check system and if anybody uses your gun to commit a crime, you get sentenced along with them unless your gun safe was broken into or some similar language.  Politicians, Actors, diplomats, etc. all have armed security...Every place should have armed security.  Lastly, do a Federal buy back program like Cash for Clunkers.  Maybe you can get some of these weapons off he street.  99% of legal gun owners would never use their gun for a crime so I don't feel that all guns should be taken away because of these evil people.  Full disclosure:  I am a supporter of police and the rule of law!

[JimmyTheMook]

5 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Personally, I can't think of a valid reason to own a handgun either. Especially a semi automatic one with a large magazine. 

 

I'm kind of an accidental gun owner. I bought a nickel and chrome plated ( Mariner Grade) pump action shotgun back in 1987 for a single handed sailing cirgumnavigation I was planning. I got a great job offer instead and it's been laying under the bed in it's case with a trigger lock and no ammo ever since.

Yet you wanted the gun to protect yourself?

 

That is a fine shotgun and I'm quite familiar with the model.

 

There are a few given rules in life and one is :

 

Arsenal Rule 

 

 

[pegman]

42 minutes ago, silverhawk_usa said:

Obviously, I am an American.  And a retired police officer.  I am absolutely in favor of gun control and background checks.  One must be practical and realistic to address this problem.  You will never be able to take all the guns away. I am not defending this, but realistic and workable solutions must be found.  i wish I had the answer, but I don't.  As usual, posts are jumping to conclusions.  As of this writing a news conference just finished.  An assault rifle apparently was not the weapon, but a semi-automatic pistol. Yes, with a sound suppressor and multiple extended magazines, so it doesn't much matter what it was. 12 victims and one shooter dead.  This should always be newsworthy.  When it is treated as a common occurrence, and no one cares or listens, it will only get worse.

With due respect, your post is nonsense. You have been conditioned it seems into accepting the politics of this issue as hopelessly entrenched. It's not. Monied lobbyists, the root of the problem, can be overcome. Political courts can be changed over time. The SCOTUS had a totally different interpretation of the 2nd Ammendment a couple decades ago. Ban hand guns outside shooting ranges and semi-auto rifles. Mandatory minimums of 5 years for possession. It may take a decade but those guns will be gone as will the crazy number of mass killings.

[brycspain]

2 minutes ago, JimmyTheMook said:

Yet you wanted the gun to protect yourself?

 

That is a fine shotgun and I'm quite familiar with the model.

 

There are a few given rules in life and one is :

 

Arsenal Rule 

 

 

I agree with you Jimmy.  Just to add:  The second amendment wasn't created for hunting.  It was to protect ourselves from a home invasions and a tyrannical takeover from our Government so people could fight against it.  It's funny how all the gun control leftists are worried about Dictator Trump and yet still want to take everyone's guns away.  

[brycspain]

1 minute ago, oilinki said:

So basically you wish to live in open air prison for the rest of your life?

 

The rest of the message.. wow. just wow. 

What is an open air prison?  The point I am making is security and protection shouldn't just be for the rich and powerful most of whom are telling you that you can't own gun yet they use armed security.  So what is your solution?   Take 60 million guns away?....that will work.  

[rumak]

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

some Americans.

 

A great many USA citizens do not agree with gun lobby or armed idiots.  

unfortunately, a great many disgruntled citizens seem to be coming to thailand ,,,,,  where they soon display the actions of disgruntled expats.  

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, rumak said:

a great many disgruntled citizens seem to be coming to thailand

Care to quantify that?

[silverhawk_usa]

44 minutes ago, pegman said:

With due respect, your post is nonsense. You have been conditioned it seems into accepting the politics of this issue as hopelessly entrenched. It's not. Monied lobbyists, the root of the problem, can be overcome. Political courts can be changed over time. The SCOTUS had a totally different interpretation of the 2nd Ammendment a couple decades ago. Ban hand guns outside shooting ranges and semi-auto rifles. Mandatory minimums of 5 years for possession. It may take a decade but those guns will be gone as will the crazy number of mass killings.

Thanks for the due respect. ????  No I am not conditioned. I dislike labels, but I guess I am a realist.  There is nothing new in your suggestions.  And, yes I would like to see similar laws enacted. 60 million guns are not going away.  Neither are they going to be bought back.  How many years, decades, has this been debated? Start one realistic step at a time, and we may reach the goal you profess.  Start by defeating politicians in the pockets of the NRA and, I agree, the lobbyists. More money and access for mental health.  There are still those who will kill in one way or another, gun or not. Guns are one problem, but mass killings is another.  It is a complex issue.

Edited June 1, 2019 by silverhawk_usa

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Other than being in the military or law enforcement, what would be a valid reason for owning an assault weapon?

being a red neck?

[atyclb]

2 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Other than being in the military or law enforcement, what would be a valid reason for owning an assault weapon?

 

thai wife's family itching to get your assets?

[soalbundy]

10 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Open air prison is a place where everybody is constantly afraid of others, who might be mentally ill and might kill them. 

 

I'm saying I rather live in a society, where I don't constantly have to be afraid of someone trying to rob me in gunpoint or try to kill me simply because they are mad. 

 

Either fix the metal state of the USA, heavily restrict the gun laws or.. which you are going to do, enjoy the mass shooting as well as many other shootings as it's a cultural thing to do in the USA. 

 

You have three choices of which you'll choose the last one. Congratulations. 

I think they tried that with opiates, didn't work out apparently.

[rumak]

14 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Care to quantify that?

i wrote that for effect.    But am open to changing great many to  "Some" if that will work better

 

 

[lannarebirth]

38 minutes ago, JimmyTheMook said:

Yet you wanted the gun to protect yourself?

 

That is a fine shotgun and I'm quite familiar with the model.

 

There are a few given rules in life and one is :

 

Arsenal Rule 

 

 

 Well, yes I did. I knew I would be sailing through waters that pirates were active in. It seemed an appropriate deterrant. I'm also a merchant marine officer and we regularly depoly watches where men carry shotguns and I've got a 38 caliber in the ship's safe. It's because WE KNOW we're going into areas where criminals are active and we are on our own. Most of life is not like that though.

[Dumbastheycome]

So sad that there is such regular events in the US. It is unlikely there will ever be a solution when constitutional "right" is touted in justification for "possession for personal protection".

Given the probability that 50% of the victims in any of this incident are also owners of guns it did  not provide any protection when tucked away in the bedside or kitchen drawer  waiting to add to the appalling number of domestic firearm fatalities annually! Those outnumber incidents such as  this Virginia Beach and  other " deranged people" total fatalities and gross injuries  by thousands. Their constitutional right to live seems to be ignored in favor of gun proliferation.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Dumbastheycome

[grumpy 4680]

     When the American Constitution was written, and the Right to bare Arms included, they only had Muskets and ball shot.  They obviously never envisaged automatic Assault Rifles.

     So American Lawmakers have every right to amend the Constitution, and SHOULD BE.

[brycspain]

38 minutes ago, grumpy 4680 said:

     When the American Constitution was written, and the Right to bare Arms included, they only had Muskets and ball shot.  They obviously never envisaged automatic Assault Rifles.

     So American Lawmakers have every right to amend the Constitution, and SHOULD BE.

That is terrible argument.  Muskets were the premiere weapon back then.  Sorry, you guys can cry all you want but you're not going to get the guns no matter how many of these events happen because its not about the guns.  Evil will find a way....whats the next easiest thing to use as a weapon?.... If you take the guns they will go to that...leftists don't have any solutions except one.

Edited June 1, 2019 by brycspain

[brycspain]

54 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

So sad that there is such regular events in the US. It is unlikely there will ever be a solution when constitutional "right" is touted in justification for "possession for personal protection".

Given the probability that 50% of the victims in any of this incident are also owners of guns it did  not provide any protection when tucked away in the bedside or kitchen drawer  waiting to add to the appalling number of domestic firearm fatalities annually! Those outnumber incidents such as  this Virginia Beach and  other " deranged people" total fatalities and gross injuries  by thousands. Their constitutional right to live seems to be ignored in favor of gun proliferation.

 

 

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.  Again, leftists need to focus.

[jvs]

3 hours ago, Catoni said:

Democrats will just make the destruction a bit faster than the Republicans will. That’s all.

Your republican president does a fine job,he does not need any help from democrats.