The horns of a dilemma.

[Lacessit]

57 minutes ago, Gandtee said:

And where does an over 75 obtain health insurance and at what cost?

Especially when one has pre-existing conditions.

[Graviton]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

As I understand it, the authorities want farangs to use THAI medical insurance companies for the O-A visa. Correct me if I am wrong.

Given they also want 40,000 baht OUTPATIENT insurance, I'm not sure your post is relevant.

Can use any insurance company you want.

400k in

40k out

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, Graviton said:

Can use any insurance company you want.

400k in

40k out

Cost? With pre-existing conditions, over 75?

[RJRS1301]

The ones I looked at (Thai) would not give me insurance in December 2019 with no pre existing conditions ,age 70  

[Graviton]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Cost? With pre-existing conditions, over 75?

Not a clue? Sorry

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, Graviton said:

Not a clue? Sorry

I'll help you out. CIGNA quoted me 12,000 USD pa with all pre-existing conditions excluded from cover.

If the Thai authorities want to insist on that for retirees, Cambodia or the Philippines look very attractive in comparison.

Look on the bright side. I'll only come here for six months on tourist visas, so that's six months when I won't be annoying you.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Graviton said:

 Non O ext to stay due to retirement don’t need insurance? 

It's a subject that has been exercising the minds of many retirees. At this stage, nobody knows for sure. Clarification will come after July 1. If Immigration authorities start asking for proof of hospital/medical insurance in Thailand thereafter, of anyone who is doing an extension, the writing will be on the wall.

[Sheryl]

25 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

As I understand it, the authorities want farangs to use THAI medical insurance companies for the O-A visa. Correct me if I am wrong.

Given they also want 40,000 baht OUTPATIENT insurance, I'm not sure your post is relevant.

 

They have not clarified the requirements for the O-A but they have said that international insurance will be accepted.

 

Inpatient only policies include coverage for considerably more than 40K of outpatient: outpatient cancer care, outpatient dialysis, and usually outpatient care immediately before and for a period of time after (typically) hospitalization. But not for all OPD. I have run up over US $1,500 in fully covered OPD bills under my inpatient policy in past month.

 

The devil will be in the details. Frankly I can't imagine how Embassies and consulates will go about assessing international policies.

 

If all you care about is meeting the O-A or O-X requirement, and not actually being insured for large medical bills,  then buy one of the policies on the longstay site. Will cost as much as a decent international policy for very inadequate cover but will meet the visa requirement.

 

 

[baansgr]

The family look for another mug while Jonny Foreigner goes home broke....

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

If all you care about is meeting the O-A or O-X requirement, and not actually being insured for large medical bills,  then buy one of the policies on the longstay site. Will cost as much as a decent international policy for very inadequate cover but will meet the visa requirement.

 

 

I think you meant to say "Will NOT cost........."

Checked the Longstay site, won't cover anyone over 70.

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, baansgr said:

The family look for another mug while Jonny Foreigner goes home broke....

A rather cynical post. I won't be going home or elsewhere broke, and I'm pretty sure my Thai GF will be devastated.

[sirineou]

 I have Blue Cross Blue Shield (BCBS) through my trade union in the US that covers me until I am 65 (I am 62 now) so I am covered anywhere in the world, but when I turn 65 I go on Medicare and I am no longer covered in Thailand.

  Med insurance , or the income requirements  do not  not come as a surprise me, and IMO should not to anyone else. 

  Even though it might not had being a requirement for medical insurance  in the past, who in their right mind would move to a foreign country to retire knowing damn well that they will get old and will require care, and not make contingency plans???

  I could have sold  my property in the US, and living high on the hog from the proceeds, as many have, but I did not, knowing damn well that for health or many other reasons I might have to repatriate. 

  Income requirements. Married (400k ) for me,800K for retirees that are not married.

To come to Thailand one needs to do a few things. One needs to buy an airplane ticket. You would not go to the airport without a ticket. One needs to pack esensial things, plan to have enough income for food and shelter etc.

 But it seems for some not plan to have $13K/$24K to leave in the bank for Thai immigration income requirements. and emergencies 

I don't mean to sound ,uncaring, but to me this sounds like extremely poor planning, and not the Thai authorities fault for requiring that you have a small amount of savings to live here.

[Denim]

3 hours ago, Graviton said:

My landlord has been trying to sell the condo I rent for about 7 years now.

 

That's common with Thais. They don't know how to price things to sell. Sold two houses here easily within a month. Did the research and put up a fair price. I have seen secondhand electric goods for sale here at more than the new price !

 

" Look , I've worn it in for you for a year ....that makes it worth more "

 

Could your Landlord sell the condo for 10,000 ? Yes easily.

Could your landlord sell the condo for 50,000 ? Yes easily.

Could your landlord sell the condo for 10,000,000 . No way.

 

OK....so he just has to find the fair sell price between those two extremes and remember it's not what its worth that counts . What counts is how much can he actually sell it for.

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 But it seems for some not plan to have $13K/$24K to leave in the bank for Thai immigration income requirements. and emergencies 

I don't mean to sound ,uncaring, but to me this sounds like extremely poor planning, and not the Thai authorities fault for requiring that you have a small amount of savings to live here.

I agree with you. However, it's a bit difficult to plan ahead for shifting goalposts.

I don't have a problem with having funds on deposit. I do have a problem with either being required to carry ruinously expensive medical insurance I don't need, or being forced out because of my age. It seems to me the Thai respect for age is reserved for Thais alone.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Denim said:

 

That's common with Thais. They don't know how to price things to sell. Sold two houses here easily within a month. Did the research and put up a fair price. I have seen secondhand electric goods for sale here at more than the new price !

 

" Look , I've worn it in for you for a year ....that makes it worth more "

 

Could your Landlord sell the condo for 10,000 ? Yes easily.

Could your landlord sell the condo for 50,000 ? Yes easily.

Could your landlord sell the condo for 10,000,000 . No way.

 

OK....so he just has to find the fair sell price between those two extremes and remember it's not what its worth that counts . What counts is how much can he actually sell it for.

I said that, not Graviton.

My landlord is a farang. IMHO he is probably about 300 K above a reasonable selling price, not that I am interested in buying.

 

[Graviton]

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I said that, not Graviton.

My landlord is a farang. IMHO he is probably about 300 K above a reasonable selling price, not that I am interested in buying.

 

Why does it say I said

 

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I said that, not Graviton.

My landlord is a farang. IMHO he is probably about 300 K above a reasonable selling price, not that I am interested in buying.

 

Confused why it states I said it.?

[bkk6060]

8 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

If you are married and doing the 400k/40k, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. There are no tearful goodbyes at the airport, the family is not getting broken up by a ruthless and uncaring Thai Government. Its the same amount of money for the same amount of time.

 

If you are doing retirement and 800k/65k, leaving 800k in the bank to meet the requirements, NOTHING HAS CHANGED, leave the money in the bank, no tearful goodbyes or families being torn apart at the departure gate.

 

If you are doing retirement and 800k/65k, drawing down the money then topping back up from home country funds, relatively speaking, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. You can still use the funds at home to live off, top-up etc. if you were spending the 800k to live each year, where was the next 800k top-up coming from ?????

Nothing has changed except they cannot lie any longer to get the income statement.

A lot has changed for some as they never had the money or qualified in the first place...

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, Graviton said:

Why does it say I said

 

Confused why it states I said it.?

So am I. A ghost in the machine, or a gremlin.

[Graviton]

27 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 I have Blue Cross Blue Shield (BCBS) through my trade union in the US that covers me until I am 65 (I am 62 now) so I am covered anywhere in the world, but when I turn 65 I go on Medicare and I am no longer covered in Thailand.

  Med insurance , or the income requirements  do not  not come as a surprise me, and IMO should not to anyone else. 

  Even though it might not had being a requirement for medical insurance  in the past, who in their right mind would move to a foreign country to retire knowing damn well that they will get old and will require care, and not make contingency plans???

  I could have sold  my property in the US, and living high on the hog from the proceeds, as many have, but I did not, knowing damn well that for health or many other reasons I might have to repatriate. 

  Income requirements. Married (400k ) for me,800K for retirees that are not married.

To come to Thailand one needs to do a few things. One needs to buy an airplane ticket. You would not go to the airport without a ticket. One needs to pack esensial things, plan to have enough income for food and shelter etc.

 But it seems for some not plan to have $13K/$24K to leave in the bank for Thai immigration income requirements. and emergencies 

I don't mean to sound ,uncaring, but to me this sounds like extremely poor planning, and not the Thai authorities fault for requiring that you have a small amount of savings to live here.

But you cannot touch 800k for 5 months 400k can never be touched, that is where the issue is, dip into 400k no ext the following year....

[bkk6060]

51 minutes ago, baansgr said:

The family look for another mug while Jonny Foreigner goes home broke....

????

Of course, wouldn't you?

[jinners]

On 6/1/2019 at 5:49 AM, ballpoint said:

Why abandon the family?  Why don't they sell their house here and move the family back to their home country?  Could it be because their own country's immigration requirements are far stricter than Thailand's?

That's really helpful. Great post

[Graviton]

2 minutes ago, jinners said:

That's really helpful. Great post

Not if you look at the migration to europe....completely out of control.....

[sirineou]

Just now, Graviton said:

But you cannot touch 800k for 5 months 400k can never be touched, that is where the issue is, dip into 400k no ext the following year....

 As it should be. 

These funds should be for emergencies and not to leave on. And they are a relatively small amount. 

$13k for married? the price of a cheap car?  You can't touch the money you have in a car , unless you sell it at which time you don't have a car, and you can't spend your emergency funds unless you withdraw them at which time you don't have emergency funds.

The purpose of this whole exercise by the Thai authorities is that you have emergency funds and that you do not become a burden in the case of a medical emergency.

I know, I get it, I was young one time and I felt indestructible, I don't claim a higher moral or intelligence level.

 But the Thai authorities have to make rational decisions , and I don't think  it is irrational to require  of someone to have a relatively small amount, to protect against emergencies, in fact it might be a measure of tough love and a way to protect as from our own selves and/or  youthful exuberance. 

I know we got away with it for a while do to the embassy letter scam, But how many people died or became a burden to Thailand because they did not really have adequate funds to react to emergencies?

Not that $13k or $25K is even adequate. 

IMO the Thai government should allow long term resident to buy into the government medical insurance. Problem solved, I am sure they can come up with a premium that doesn't strain the system, in fact the system might profit because most expats have better insurance back home and will go there for major non emergency procedures, I know I would.   

[Graviton]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 As it should be. 

These funds should be for emergencies and not to leave on. And they are a relatively small amount. 

$13k for married? the price of a cheap car?  You can't touch the money you have in a car , unless you sell it at which time you don't have a car, and you can't spend your emergency funds unless you withdraw them at which time you don't have emergency funds.

The purpose of this whole exercise by the Thai authorities is that you have emergency funds and that you do not become a burden in the case of a medical emergency.

I know, I get it, I was young one time and I felt indestructible, I don't claim a higher moral or intelligence level.

 But the Thai authorities have to make rational decisions , and I don't think  it is irrational to require  of someone to have a relatively small amount, to protect against emergencies, in fact it might be a measure of tough love and a way to protect as from our own selves and/or  youthful exuberance. 

I know we got away with it for a while do to the embassy letter scam, But how many people died or became a burden to Thailand because they did not really have adequate funds to react to emergencies?

Not that $13k or $25K is even adequate. 

IMO the Thai government should allow long term resident to buy into the government medical insurance. Problem solved, I am sure they can come up with a premium that doesn't strain the system, in fact the system might profit because most expats have better insurance back home and will go there for major non emergency procedures, I know I would.   

Yes exactly but why are they pushing mandatory health insurance too..

 

I BELIEVE not for O just O-A but if I’m wrong, that blows your thinking out of the water...........here lies the rubix

 

I have made the same suggestion re government hospital access at fair price.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Graviton
Additional

[GeorgeCross]

17 hours ago, JaiLai said:

It really amazes me people would not have 400/800k in the bank after their working life.




Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

what about 20 years after their working lives.. or 30? still amazed?

[CharlieH]

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[sirineou]

26 minutes ago, Graviton said:

Yes exactly but why are they pushing mandatory health insurance too..

 

I BELIEVE not for O just O-A but if I’m wrong, that blows your thinking out of the water...........here lies the rubix

 As I understand it from what I have read , It is not for those who are here on extensions based on marriage. I think it is for extensions based on retirement. But I could be wrong on the retirement part.Anyway we will know soon enough.

But regardless of requirements or not, IMO ,one should not be without some insurance or the funds to self insure (min 1 mil baht perhaps more). Even though one might have great insurance back home, the occasion might arise where one might not be able to travel. Suppose you had the symptoms of a heart attack,  you certainly will not get on a plane and fly back home to have it checked. and if you don't have insurance or the funds you might not have it checked here, You might think "hey maybe it is only gas" do I want to spend my last baht?  But if you had the funds in the bank, or had insurance you might be more proactive.

  I am not being  critical,I understand all the pressures we all face, I live in the same world you all do,   but these are all things to think about. 

IMO it is not unreasonable to be required to have a $13k buffer fund, Not having any insurance is a sucker dice roll, and the required private insurance that does not cover preexisting conditions is crap. Why not be able for long term residents  to buy into the Thai government health plan?

Edited June 2, 2019 by sirineou

[GeorgeCross]

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Nowadays it seems to me Thai immigration authorities have a problem with single falangie men maybe women to, wanting to stay Thailand.

That problem is something to do with falangies not paying hospital bills. 

 

more likely the problem is with the mongering 

 

doesn't look good now they've got the chinese paying the bills

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[RJRS1301]

It is not about having the 800k, it is being told it has to be in Thai account, and then in my case the banks making it difficult without a 12 month lease to open an account.

I can get reasonable interest on the 800k in my countries bank account as opposed to keeping it in Thai account, and not having access to it for 5months, although other income to live from as well

Health insurance went up nearly 100% when turned 70 with no pre existing conditions.

 

[geoffbezoz]

17 hours ago, JaiLai said:

It really amazes me people would not have 400/800k in the bank after their working life.




Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

How old are you ? The reason I ask is that perhaps you are either to young to have stepped on the ladder of life with its pitfalls for very long or else you are out of touch with economic reality. You say you are amassed at people not having those savings when they finish work. The facts in the UK should illustrate why you should not be too amassed based on reality that in the 55-64 age group 74% have less than 100 GBP in savings in 2017. Based on that I would think it highly unlikely they would have been able to build up a substantial saving in their last few years of working life.

https://www.finder.com/uk/saving-statistics

Edited June 2, 2019 by geoffbezoz