New Honda Wave a SLUG!

[Kinnock]

I have a Dream/Supercub 110 with fuel injection - nippy enough for city use and the semi-auto seems to make it a bit quicker accelerating than a full auto 125,  but slower than an auto 150cc.

 

I've been meaning to adjust the slack throttle cable for a while, but it has no impact on acceleration or top speed.

 

The 125cc Wave is basically the same bike with more modern looking bodywork and of course a slightly larger motor than my 110, but the same as your old 125 Dream.  The 125 has a bit more power and torque than the 110 so should feel quicker than mine and similar to your old Dream.  The newer fuel injection should not make much difference, runs a bit leaner to reduce emissions, but also improves fuelling, so balances out 

 

Gearing of the 125 Wave is a bit taller than my 110 - but I've ridden a 125 and it still felt quicker than my 110, although I needed to change up a bit later to let it rev.  First gear on the Supercub 110 is crazy low, perhaps to help it pull mobile som-tam kitchen side cars?  Not sure about gearing of your 125 Dream vs a 125 Wave?

 

But I think, as others said earlier, you have a fuelling issue as I'd be very surprise if a new 125 Wave felt slower than an old 125 Dream.

 

[bamboozled]

The first gear is the worst. It feels like you are pulling out in 2nd gear. I don't think it would make it up Doi Suthep with two people on it, though I have yet to try. Starting out on a steep hill with two people...I think it just wouldn't budge. The WAve is a lot bigger and heavier than the Dream. I didn't realize this when I bought it. That must rob some horsepower.

I did not make it to mechanic yet.

[Farangwithaplan]

9 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Not owned a Ducati then? 

Owned and pushed enough of them in a time when their grandeur did not match their performance. Have set up desmo on more than a few early engines. Ducati are hardly run of the mill engines for a varierty of reasons and you example hardly makes a point in this context. I don't understand what you are trying to convey.

 

Desmo was only really useful in a time when valve bounce couldn't be easily countered. It can now with a variety of ways including pnuemantics.

 

 

 

[Farangwithaplan]

7 hours ago, johng said:

 

You also should have a micrometer or very least a vernier caliper to measure  the old and new shims

in my case the original shims had been sanded down and where not the thickness stamped on them.

 

Also had another "little problem"

 

 

Shim and bucket set up is easy to get right. It is usually not worth it for the home maintenance person because you need to keep a variety of shims in different depth and sometimes diameter on hand to make the job simple.

 

The beauty of shim and bucket on a non stressed engine of the type we are discussing, is that wear is minimal. I did some testing on several models late year 2000 engines for study and found minimal need for valve clearance adjustment even after 50,000km no matter what the manufacturer. Exhaust valves were generally found to require more adjustment to clearance, and revisions of engines by the manufacturer usually fixed any issues that were found on early model engines.

 

Data is available in extract online in the open domain if you choose to search for it.

[watcharacters]

On 6/2/2019 at 10:10 AM, Moonlover said:

I'm nearly always first away at the lights due its excellent acceleration

 

Dangerous practice..

[Kinnock]

1 hour ago, bamboozled said:

The first gear is the worst. It feels like you are pulling out in 2nd gear. I don't think it would make it up Doi Suthep with two people on it, though I have yet to try. Starting out on a steep hill with two people...I think it just wouldn't budge. The WAve is a lot bigger and heavier than the Dream. I didn't realize this when I bought it. That must rob some horsepower.

I did not make it to mechanic yet.

Not easy to find all the specs, but looks like the Wave is only 2 kg heavier than a Dream - so not really noticeable compared to rider weight.

 

Power and torque is also very close.

 

The Wave looks to have a taller first gear at 2.5 vs 2.615 for the Dream - and that would be noticeable, but the Dream/Super Cub has a crazy low first gear so you normally shift into first almost as soon as you get you get moving, so in practice you'll be in second and third most the time.

 

My guess is fuelling - or it's just perception - it sounds slower as it revs lower in first, but a 0-30 or 0-60 sprint will be similar in practice.

 

Changing the rear sprocket to add an extra tooth will make it feel quicker, but I think you should stick with it to see if it's really slower.

[Moonlover]

7 hours ago, watcharacters said:

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 10:10 AM, Moonlover said:

I'm nearly always first away at the lights due its excellent acceleration

 

7 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

Dangerous practice..

I'm still alive, well and accident free after 5 years motorcycling here. There is a very good reason why I qualified my statement with nearly. Basically it goes If in doubt, hold back.

 

But generally, I think it is less dangerous to be out ahead the scrum of other motorcyclist with their jostling and weaving. I regard them as a greater hazard than an open road.

[VocalNeal]

8 hours ago, Farangwithaplan said:

Ducati are hardly run of the mill engines for a varierty of reasons and you example hardly makes a point in this context. I don't understand what you are trying to convey.

I am not trying to convey anything. Just trying to explain to/ guide the OP towards a possible solution. 

 

I am simply unsure why you think Honda should over complicate a simple proven design that has already been "tested" as the world's most reliable and/or most indestructible motorbike engine. If changing the valve adjustment method was less expensive and simpler to produce/maintain I am sure Honda would have been done long ago.  

 

 

[bamboozled]

8 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Not easy to find all the specs, but looks like the Wave is only 2 kg heavier than a Dream - so not really noticeable compared to rider weight.

 

Power and torque is also very close.

 

The Wave looks to have a taller first gear at 2.5 vs 2.615 for the Dream - and that would be noticeable, but the Dream/Super Cub has a crazy low first gear so you normally shift into first almost as soon as you get you get moving, so in practice you'll be in second and third most the time.

 

My guess is fuelling - or it's just perception - it sounds slower as it revs lower in first, but a 0-30 or 0-60 sprint will be similar in practice.

 

Changing the rear sprocket to add an extra tooth will make it feel quicker, but I think you should stick with it to see if it's really slower.

Are you sure the specs are for the 2018/19 Wave and the 2008 Dream? The Wave looks and feels MUCH heavier, an altogether different beast. Hmm, changing the rear sprocket, that's not a bad idea. I mean, if the mechanic tells me nothing wrong, I will either have to suck it up for the next 5 or 10 years and accept a "slow" bike, sell it, or change the sprocket (or re-bore engine? but that seems drastic on a new bike?...and a bit silly!). Seems like bigger sprocket would be perhaps the easiest. So I would lose some top-end speed, correct?

[KC 71]

PCX is a 150 though, right?

Its actually 155


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[VocalNeal]

2 minutes ago, KC 71 said:

Its actually 155


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As is a Vespa 150 and the Yamaha Nmax/Aerox. 

 

Might be to do with some US states requiring bikes to be over 150 to ride on certain roads? 

[johng]

9 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Changing the rear sprocket to add an extra tooth will make it feel quicker,

I thought a smaller rear sprocket would increase top speed, a bigger rear would give more acceleration

(good for wheelies) but less top speed ???

[bamboozled]

1 hour ago, johng said:

I thought a smaller rear sprocket would increase top speed, a bigger rear would give more acceleration

(good for wheelies) but less top speed ???

I think the two of you are saying the same thing!

 

[cornishcarlos]

Some interesting info coming out on this thread....

 

However, as I said at the beginning, bike is under warranty so take it back...

If they say nothing is wrong, ask to test another bike (same model) against it..

Call head office in BKK if you are not satisfied with local Honda results.

[VocalNeal]

 

1 hour ago, johng said:

I thought a smaller rear sprocket would increase top speed, a bigger rear would give more acceleration

(good for wheelies) but less top speed ???

 

Hmmm. Bit of a misnomer?  A smaller sprocket will lower the RPM and any given speed but may not allow the motor to rev sufficiently to generate maximum power.

Larger sprocket will raise RPM at any given speed but may actually allow motor to generate maximum power, resulting in a slightly or higher identical speed. 

 

Aerodynamics permitting?

 

But yes in the OP's case installing the same gearing as his original Dream may be a satisfactory solution?

[scubascuba3]

i have the honda click and acceleration is excellent, probably due to the injection. Brilliant for pulling away from danger

[Kinnock]

2 hours ago, bamboozled said:

Are you sure the specs are for the 2018/19 Wave and the 2008 Dream? The Wave looks and feels MUCH heavier, an altogether different beast. Hmm, changing the rear sprocket, that's not a bad idea. I mean, if the mechanic tells me nothing wrong, I will either have to suck it up for the next 5 or 10 years and accept a "slow" bike, sell it, or change the sprocket (or re-bore engine? but that seems drastic on a new bike?...and a bit silly!). Seems like bigger sprocket would be perhaps the easiest. So I would lose some top-end speed, correct?

Yes - bigger rear sprocket would improve acceleration but  may reduce top speed slightly.

 

I think the Wave looks and feels heavier as it has more plastic and rear seat sweeps up so is higher.  But it's only a small amount heavier.

 

If it's not a fuelling issue, then a different rear sprocket is a low cost option.  You may also need a longer chain, and speedometer may no longer be accurate - but not a big issue.

 

But before changing anything - get it checked out.

 

I'm thinking of changing my 110 Dream/Supercub for a new 125 Wave (looking at same grey color as yours) as I want the under seat storage and better headlight.  I also prefer the slightly taller gearing as 1st gear on the Dream is so low.  Just changing up a bit later in each gear will overcome any disadvantage from the taller gearing - and I don't expect any Dream/Supercub to be fast anyway.????

 

 

[Agusts]

4 hours ago, KC 71 said:

Its actually 155
 

That's not the case for Honda PCX 150 in Thailand,  the new model is in fact 149.32cc, see Honda link:

https://www.aphonda.co.th/honda2017/motorcycle/automatic/pcx150-2019

 

But Yamaha Nmax and Aerox are 155cc.

https://www.yamaha-motor.co.th/commuter/nmax-155cc-2018/feature

 

[bamboozled]

2 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Yes - bigger rear sprocket would improve acceleration but  may reduce top speed slightly.

 

I think the Wave looks and feels heavier as it has more plastic and rear seat sweeps up so is higher.  But it's only a small amount heavier.

 

If it's not a fuelling issue, then a different rear sprocket is a low cost option.  You may also need a longer chain, and speedometer may no longer be accurate - but not a big issue.

 

But before changing anything - get it checked out.

 

I'm thinking of changing my 110 Dream/Supercub for a new 125 Wave (looking at same grey color as yours) as I want the under seat storage and better headlight.  I also prefer the slightly taller gearing as 1st gear on the Dream is so low.  Just changing up a bit later in each gear will overcome any disadvantage from the taller gearing - and I don't expect any Dream/Supercub to be fast anyway.????

 

 

It feels so different riding it from the Dream. The Dream you can muscle around, like a small, light-weight bike. The Wave, no, acts more like a big bike. It doesn't really respond so much to body weight changes.

We actually have the black and red (I just couldn't find a good pic in that color). We had wanted the gray and red but it wasn't in stock at the time so we went with the black/red which was.

[KC 71]

That's not the case for Honda PCX 150 in Thailand,  the new model is in fact 149.32cc, see Honda link:
https://www.aphonda.co.th/honda2017/motorcycle/automatic/pcx150-2019
 
But Yamaha Nmax and Aerox are 155cc.
https://www.yamaha-motor.co.th/commuter/nmax-155cc-2018/feature
 

I have the slightly older version which is 155
I wonder why they have changed it
Oh well its not the end of the world 6cc !


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[KC 71]

I have the slightly older version which is 155
I wonder why they have changed it
Oh well its not the end of the world 6cc !


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Oh i see now,its a hybrid !


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[Agusts]

26 minutes ago, KC 71 said:

I have the slightly older version which is 155
I wonder why they have changed it
Oh well its not the end of the world 6cc !


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To be honest I have never heard of a 155cc PCX in Thailand, older ones were even lower cc, like 147cc I think, do you have a reference of it anywhere on the web, or check the handbook....

[VocalNeal]

7 minutes ago, Agusts said:

To be honest I have never heard of a 155cc PCX in Thailand, older ones were even lower cc, like 147cc I think, do you have a reference of it anywhere on the web, or check the handbook....

PCX is 153cc.

 

What amuses me is how scooter manufacturers come up with wacky engine capacities. Away from more traditional motorcycle ones and how free and easy scooter manufacturers are with their descriptions. 

Vespa 300 is 278cc for example. Honda Forza 300 is 279cc et al..

[KC 71]

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[Agusts]

Under <150cc pays less tax and insurance than over...

[Agusts]

5 minutes ago, KC 71 said:

 

I don't trust Lazada much, half info there about items are not accurate, I wonder if the engine size of PCX for Europe and US or other countries slightly different from Thailand,  here is a Thai website that says 2016 version had 149.32cc engine:

 

https://www.zigwheels.co.th/en/new-motorcycles/honda/pcx150-2016

 

Although unless from Honda direct, who knows...

[KC 71]

To be honest I have never heard of a 155cc PCX in Thailand, older ones were even lower cc, like 147cc I think, do you have a reference of it anywhere on the web, or check the handbook....

It says 150 on the badge ,but has a bit extra [emoji106]


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[KC 71]

Gets me from a- b
Here in the Rai there aren’t so many boy racers
I always let them overtake anyway
It Always makes mw wonder how everywhere else they have to go fast
To prove a point,i.e the islands etc
We get the weekend racers on the big bikes every wknd but thats about it,going on a mountain run etc


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[Agusts]

Racing here is not a good idea, but Thais love it, even in their cars. When I was on my 125cc bike, I was never provoked, but now on my Forza I get pissed off sometimes too easily, unfortunately....

The other day the guy was coming  behind me right to one meter of my bike with his car , we were at 80km/h, basically wanted to push me off the road, so I lost it and max the throttle and watch him in my mirror disappear behind me while I was going 130km/h, this kind of reactionary riding or driving is very bad, but it comes with having a more powerful bike, sometime he can do the same,  then wil be very dangerous racing, I know I need to be more patient and careful....

[bamboozled]

2 hours ago, Agusts said:

Racing here is not a good idea, but Thais love it, even in their cars. When I was on my 125cc bike, I was never provoked, but now on my Forza I get pissed off sometimes too easily, unfortunately....

The other day the guy was coming  behind me right to one meter of my bike with his car , we were at 80km/h, basically wanted to push me off the road, so I lost it and max the throttle and watch him in my mirror disappear behind me while I was going 130km/h, this kind of reactionary riding or driving is very bad, but it comes with having a more powerful bike, sometime he can do the same,  then wil be very dangerous racing, I know I need to be more patient and careful....

I know that feeling!