My online income has made me more critical of Thailand

[Pedrogaz]

I'm thinking of leaving as well. It's not that I want to move, or that I can't comply with the visa requirements. No, it is simply that I don't want to comply with all these asinine requirements that the idiots in immigration keep dreaming up, and because Thai law seems to consider me to be a high risk potential criminal, simply because I was born somewhere else. It is getting me down. My father was Irish so I can get an Irish passport with a short vacation to Ireland. Moving to the South of France has always appealed to me. My issue is my Thai partner....I am crazy about her and we have been together for a long time...but we are not married, because I am married to someone else. 

Maybe I'll try the Philippines or Viet Nam instead. Or maybe I'll move from the OA visa for retirement to an O visa and do border runs.

[madmen]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

That is a preposterous assertion.

 

Thais have unquestionably become ruder and less welcoming towards foreigners in the past 10 years. If anything, the trend has gone into overdrive in the past two years when immigration sweeps and roundups began to be publicized every night on the news.

 

But the change has largely been driven by money. The 'marry me and buy me a house" charade began to fall apart. Prayut started stigmatizing Thai women with foreign men as bad for Thailand's image, undercutting the money tree generated by the sex industry. Big box retailers moved in, gutted small retailers, giving them little incentive to cultivate new foreign prospective customers. The internet enabled foreigners to compare notes and prices and to become more street-smart, eliminating opportunites for price padding and gouging. Currency devaluations and austerity programs in the West started making vacation millionaires and expats alike more frugal. All this has undercut the financial incentive for Thais to engage with foreigners. The payoff is simply not sufficient for the happy Munchkinland performance to go on 24/7, and for largely financial reasons, the charade has been summarily dropped.

 

As far as whether foreigners are the ones who have changed, largely due to the internet, the guys coming over here hoping for a long-term romance with a Thai woman have more realistic expectations and are probably less likely to guzzle the kool-aid than newbies in years past. I think you're less likely to see cringeworthy examples of say a 70 y/o guy unabashedly pawing at a teenage village girl, naively thinking she's in love with him. In many ways, I would argue that some of the more unfavorable stereotypes about expats and sexpats are starting to fade. I'm not buying the premise that loutish and boorish behavior on the part of Western men is what drove the changes in attitude that have been reported by many, many long-term expats, most of whom are recounting these changes with sadness and regret in their hearts. In many ways the calibre of expats would seem to be improving, if those cheering immigration's purges are to be believed.

 

What's driven the change? Money, plain and simply, money.

 

Sorry still don't see it. Im treated EXACTLY the same as when I arrived 12 years ago. I guess it depends on the individual and their disposition

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, madmen said:

Sorry still don't see it. Im treated EXACTLY the same as when I arrived 12 years ago. I guess it depends on the individual and their disposition

Me too.  Maybe a bit better as the folks have gotten used to me and what I like.  Immigration has stayed the same for me as I deposited 16 grand 800,000 baht 20 years ago and left it there and only take out the interest every year.  If I had to deposit it now it would be a lot more.  I have insurance but the new rules if they ever actually make any might effect me although my wife says don't worry.  

[ThomasThBKK]

Pro tip: 

 

Actually check the TAX laws of other countries if you receive online income,dividends and co, there are NOT many other countries with a territorial tax regime and you will lose a lot of money there if you want to stay legal.

[simon43]

Do you feel any resentment towards your two female assisins?

 

Off-topic for this thread, but I feel no resentment at all.  (There were 3 wives in total...)

 

I make jokes about the mad one, but nowadays I don't dwell on the past, because I can't change anything.  Dwelling on past events can turn one into a miserable and critical person.  I prefer to only think of today and the future, which explains why my stress levels are non-existent ????

[BritManToo]

sorry

Edited June 3, 2019 by BritManToo

[mike787]

44 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

I'm thinking of leaving as well. It's not that I want to move, or that I can't comply with the visa requirements. No, it is simply that I don't want to comply with all these asinine requirements that the idiots in immigration keep dreaming up, and because Thai law seems to consider me to be a high risk potential criminal, simply because I was born somewhere else. It is getting me down. My father was Irish so I can get an Irish passport with a short vacation to Ireland. Moving to the South of France has always appealed to me. My issue is my Thai partner....I am crazy about her and we have been together for a long time...but we are not married, because I am married to someone else. 

Maybe I'll try the Philippines or Viet Nam instead. Or maybe I'll move from the OA visa for retirement to an O visa and do border runs.

Vietnam and Philippines are great options, depending on what matters to you most/least.  Don't give up, things somehow have a way of working out.  

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I didn't know, hadn't heard, that Spain has a retirement visa... I had only heard of EU folks talking about moving there in past discussions here.

Eu citizens don't need VISAs for other EU countries, we can just move around as we like, even the healthcare is free (with an EHIC card).

That doesn't help JT as an American though, I guess he could move to Israel without a VISA.

Edited June 3, 2019 by BritManToo

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Eu citizens don't need VISAs for other EU countries, we can just move around as we like, even the healthcare is free (with an EHIC card).

That doesn't help JT as an American though, I guess he could move to Israel without a VISA.

 

Needless to say, not EVERYONE reading/participating in this thread here is an EU citizen who can travel to Spain and elsewhere cheap and easy!

 

[ThomasThBKK]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Needless to say, not EVERYONE reading/participating in this thread here is an EU citizen who can travel to Spain and elsewhere cheap and easy!

 

And after Brexit it will be even less, that privilege will be lost ????

[fhickson]

17 hours ago, Denim said:

Maybe . I'll ask around for you.

 

 

 

 

 

exactly, does it matter what someone else is doing? its what you want that matters. if your following someone else, esp a stranger, its unlikely to be your orbit.

 

really dont get these posts. i guess its just venting.

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

And after Brexit it will be even less, that privilege will be lost ????

You think Brexit will happen?

And if it does happen it will cancel freedom of movement for Brits in Europe?

[simon43]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You think Brexit will happen?

And if it does happen it will cancel freedom of movement for Brits in Europe?

Luckily, I can get Irish citizenship through my grandfather, but I doubt that Brits will be restricted in mainland EU after Brexit.

[simon43]

57 minutes ago, fhickson said:

exactly, does it matter what someone else is doing? its what you want that matters. if your following someone else, esp a stranger, its unlikely to be your orbit.

 

really dont get these posts. i guess its just venting.

But you still replied, didn't you?  This is why this website is called 'Thaivisa Forum'.

 

Hint - look up the definition of 'forum'. ????

[guzzi850m2]

Interesting topic.

 

Also EU citizen here and are considering if I will stay here full time in Thailand when I retire or perhaps live somewhere else part time. As it is now I am gone 6 month per year for oil offshore work.

There are many nice spots in EU.

I am still quite happy in Thailand, and I don't mind putting 400k in a bank account and forget about it.

Having 2 places in 2 different countries sounds nice but it complicates matters, likely better rent when going to EU and you can forget about it when going back to Thailand. 

Or you can do as below which sounds awesome:

 

Interesting article in BBC news about people buying a motor-home and getting "lost";

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48405631

[Tomahawk21]

18 hours ago, KittenKong said:

I have never been tied to Thailand, or anywhere else for that matter.

 

I moved here in my early fifties a few years after I retired. I chose Thailand because it seemed like the best of a pretty bad lot for retirement. It offers an easy and cheap (for me) retirement visa solution, excellent income tax treatment, fairly good value accommodation, reasonable infrastructure, decent food from many nationalities, reasonable shopping.

I never liked the heat/humidity and I like it less and less as the years go by. Aircon solves that one.

I dont like the noise and the pollution and the traffic either, though I manage to avoid most of them.

I dont like the high prices for imports and wine/beer, but I'm not an alcoholic so it doesnt worry me much.

I'm not the slightest bit interested in bars and hookers, or in forming any sort of personal relationship with any Thai or indeed anyone else. So no worries there.

Where I am in Jomtien also offers very easy access to a major international airport which is of interest to me as one of the things I do in retirement is travel. For this reason other places in Thailand would interest me much less to live in.

 

Other nearby countries are fairly attractive in some ways - notably Vietnam for the climate - but they all have their own downsides of one sort or another.

 

I think that if I did go to live somewhere else it would probably be Portugal (not the Algarve), and not one day goes by without me wondering whether I should make the move soon. When Brexit subsides I will see more clearly.

 I chose Thailand because it seemed like the best of a pretty bad lot for retirement. It offers an easy and cheap (for me) retirement visa solution, excellent income tax treatment, fairly good value

and nothing to do with pussy right ? 

[Naam]

12 hours ago, mike787 said:

Sure!  If you are an investor you would not be asking. So let me pull out my crayons and explain.  Here are the financial FACTS (not my fairy tales).   

Step 1. Grab "any" amortization investemnt calculator.

Step 2. plug in your values you are to invest, ie 800K baht or 400K.

Step 3. Fact the S&P 500 since inception has returned 10-11% compound interest per year.  That is a minimum ROI (return on initial investment).  Berkshire Hathaway, BRKA or BRKB stock trading symbol (warren buffet, 3rd richest man) has generated 20% average since inception beating the S&P 500.  (you with me so far?).  Even investing 800 or 400K into a bond fund that matched inflation at about 2-3% is better than Zero which is what you get for leaving your money in a Thai bank.  Your are not even beating inflation.  That perhaps doesn't not matter to you. Excellent!  Stop reading at this point.  

 

Ok. step 4. you plug in all those parameters.  

Step 5. Determine the amortized period of time.  That is subjective, however it can be as short as 1 year or as long as you like.  The value generated will show the amount of money your initial investment of the (laundered) funds to the Thai bank 800/400K could have generated BUT did NOT because your ROI was ZERO.  The Thai banks made money on your funds (or did what they want) that you provided. 

 

To help you see the light, or NOT is your choice.  I personally (no offense) do not care what you do with your money because it is yours.  My position is only about "informed consent"  

https://www.calculator.net/investment-calculator.html

RE:  BRKA performance relative to S&P 500...just google for more fairy tales...LOL! 

I can continue, but will choose not too.  Likely your are very happy with your choices...to continue would be to bore you, which I have exceeded at doing.

 

my time is too valuable to discuss "investments" pertaining to the peanuts amount of THB 800k throwing in "since inception", mutual funds (yuck!) and ol' Warren Buffet.

[KiChakayan]

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Speaking of Europe, Portugal looks pretty good and yes I've been there. Their financial levels for retirement residence eligibility are significantly LESS than for Thailand! 

The problem is that Portugal is under pressure, from the EU as well as from within, to remove the 10 years income tax exemption they currently grant to retirees who settle there. Income tax is a deal breaker for me, it would cost me a lot more than any useless, redundant health insurance in Thailand.

Edited June 4, 2019 by KiChakayan

[simon43]

Having made a brief check, it seems to me that living on the Spanish side of the Pyrenees is better as regards minimising tax liabilites, (if one wants to ... erhum ... do things legally..).

 

Living in Andorra is a better option to minimise tax liabilities, although there are some taxes.  I used to live in Andorra, (still have a bank account there), and I'm currently in touch with an agent over there who is bringing me up to date as regards residency requirements etc.  (The official language is Catalan, which I always found a little more difficult than Spanish ==> to many letter 'x' in the words!).

[ParadiseLost]

Nice to read about all these posters with so many 'choices'. Try existing on a South African passport in today's world ...suddenly all the choices you once had are gone and well it's either a shitty existence here or get murdered in your only other choice.

 

I've been here 15 years now and can only say it has been a steady decline - much like the GBP it is now only 50% as enjoyable. Maybe that is age creeping up but mostly I put it down to each successive generation becoming more and more entitled and self obsessed - across all nationalities.

[ThomasThBKK]

You think Brexit will happen?
And if it does happen it will cancel freedom of movement for Brits in Europe?

I hope it doesn't but many want it, i don't see anything positive in it tho.

There's for sure changes in freedom of movement IF it does and they don't reach some kind of deal.
I would think most EU countries would still accept retirees under some other visa option. That would entitle everyone else to do the same in britain tho, the deal can only be with the whole eu zone as discrimination against individual eu countries isn't allowed per eu laws - so i am not sure what the brexiters think about that.

But the uncertainty of those who are retired now and living in europe is there.
I have a brit friend who went to Thailand instead of Portugal [emoji848]

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[mania]

57 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Living in Andorra is a better option to minimise tax liabilities

I have often looked at beautiful scenes in Andorra

 

Especially La Massana

[mania]

21 hours ago, ThaiPauly said:

The problem is that my wife is the only daughter of an ailing 84 year old dad who she does not want to leave right now,

 

That is exactly what we did.

We stayed in Thailand till my wife's parents both passed on 85 & 92

Then we left

 

You know it was originally my idea after my own parents passed years earlier for us to move there & spend  the final years near my wife's parents

At times I wondered if I made the right choice but...

Those are things that are irreplaceable & makes other things seem trivial in hindsight

 

So although it seems tough if your wanting to move on.... later your wife will really appreciate that she was there.

 

[Pharoticus]

3 hours ago, Naam said:

my time is too valuable to discuss "investments" pertaining to the peanuts amount of THB 800k throwing in "since inception", mutual funds (yuck!) and ol' Warren Buffet.

Yeah right -- your time is so valuable you've made over 36,000 posts on this forum.

 

Thanks for the comic interlude.  

[Pharoticus]

19 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Seems to be plenty of places advertised ..........

One partly done for E11,500

https://www.french-property.com/sale-property/1439-Xa102171

Very interesting. 

 

That property could easily be done up quite nicely and made into something decent. 

 

Not everyone's cup of tea, but interesting nonetheless. 

 

Thanks for sharing. 

[simon43]

Pharoticus, there are literally 1,000s of old stone barns in France to convert.  That one is advertised, but most are not.  Just drive around the villages until you find am empty barn...

[Gecko123]

17 hours ago, madmen said:

Sorry still don't see it. Im treated EXACTLY the same as when I arrived 12 years ago. I guess it depends on the individual and their disposition

The economic changes I outlined in my post can't be disputed. To say that diminished financial opportunities hasn't affected how people behave goes against what most of us know about human nature. If some want to posture that their personal charm has immunized them against these macroeconomic forces, so be it.

 

I don't have a burning need to sway anyone to my point of view. I'm confident in the objectivity of the observations I've shared here. I recognize that there are some who honestly don't see any change in attitude towards foreigners, and I'm happy for them. But without questioning the honesty of any individual forum member, it should be pointed out that there are many reasons why people are often reluctant to express negative sentiments here.

 

While they're willing to admit to themselves that something is true, they can't admit it to others. They get locked into a forum persona and can't break out of it. Admitting any negative thought or grievance is perceived as a form of weakness; if you're not happy, then you are a loser. Better to pretend you're superior to others by proclaiming you're estatically happy at all times. I also strongly suspect that there are people who have financial motives to downplay anything negative about Thailand, i.e., people with real estate and business interests, for example. Nor do some people have the language, cultural sensitivity, or perceptual skills to truly assess what's going on around them.

Some perceive being negative as counterproductive because family or business ties wouldn't allow them to leave even if they wanted to. Being negative can be seen as an act of disloyalty to one's Thai spouse, family, friends or to the host country in general. People see themselves as defenders of the realm and view any criticism of Thailand as a betrayal. Even though they agree with an assessment, people continue to cling to the hope that one day soon everything will get better, and this causes them to deny anything to the contrary.

 

Then there are those who see themselves as "positive" people, and view any negativity as detrimental to their positive outlook. I really question the intelligence of such people. The merits of someone's thoughts and ideas should be judged on their merit, not whether they fit into your preordained world view.

 

Most of the stages I've described here I've gone through myself, a process not unlike coming to terms with who you are as a person. For most people, coming to terms with Thailand was a gradual process. I think allowing yourself gradually to be exposed to different viewpoints is a lot healthier than having someone forever sheltering and shielding themselves from anything negative about Thailand. Better to make the adjustment process gradual than to have reality suddenly come crashing in one day. When the scales suddenly drop from the eyes, it can be brutal. While wallowing in excessive negativity isn't healthy, pretending you live in a fairytale land untethered from the human condition is no more so either.

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Gecko123

[edgarfriendly]

agree with op wholeheartedly but wrt spain side over france side.

 

ive been doing 6 mths here and 6 mths around the pyrenees and each year the 6 mths in thailand gets less and less enjoyable.

 

rich friends are oblivious to it all and poor friends are too busy working or numbing themselves with tv or other crap.

 

unfortunately for us, my dad sold his spanish place this march, just after our awesome skiiing trip so we got 1 last month in...

 

now im looking at decent motorhomes to carry on the eu adventure b4 i get too stuck here.

 

having kids makes all the difference, once their educational needs are finalised im gonna carry on as previous but with considerably less focus on thailand, its becoming simply unpleasant & unliveable unless you can isolate yourself from the 99%...

 

@op - whereabouts are you in isaan, we're heading to korat imm tomorrow as theyre that much more reasonable than chaeng wattana, id rather do a 1 night away trip than deal with them!

 

so if ur anywhere near and fancy a quick bonjour/buen dia, feel free to pm me!!

 

 

[simon43]

@edgarfriendly, I'm right up by the Mekong, so no chance to meet up.

 

Interesting that you mention a motor-home.  I would love to drive leisurely around the Pyrenees, but my online teaching job makes that a little impracticable.

[LivinLOS]

20 hours ago, madmen said:

We all see what we want to see. I don't need a Thai to persuade me about anything thats for sure

 

Neither do I.. I was merely using an example of someone far from the 'grumbling farang' image as possible to emphasize its not a solo worldview.