New Discussion - retirement extension at Phuket Imm

[Felt 35]

4 hours ago, skatewash said:

My experience is that they won't complain about a TM7 printed on both sides, but they might about one printed on two pages. 

 

Well I can always do it both ways to be sure????

[Kopitiam]

18 hours ago, xylophone said:

Just another angle on this........if the immigration officer has the authority to grant a retirement extension at his discretion, then he would not have to see any paperwork relating to the "money in the bank", because what he says goes and once he has stamped your passport that's it surely?

 

Therefore it does not involve the bank manager, or should not involve the bank manager, and anyway I don't believe that all of the paperwork that we give the immigration officers actually gets copied/scanned and goes on file somewhere. 

 

The likelihood of anyone checking to see if there is a scanned copy of one's bank statements on file is surely very remote, if indeed the records even exist now?

I am flabbergasted that xylophone a respected member of TV is contemplating corrupted means in obtaining his annual retirement visa extension.  Even if the IO has the authority to approve applications that do not meet requirement due to minor infringement, approval based on personal financial gains is corruption.  If this is encouraged, the whole system will push towards using agents and the law abiding expats will be paying 30k THB for their extension instead of 1.9k.

[xylophone]

8 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

I am flabbergasted that xylophone a respected member of TV is contemplating corrupted means in obtaining his annual retirement visa extension.  Even if the IO has the authority to approve applications that do not meet requirement due to minor infringement, approval based on personal financial gains is corruption.  If this is encouraged, the whole system will push towards using agents and the law abiding expats will be paying 30k THB for their extension instead of 1.9k.

On the one hand I am flattered by your kind description of me, but on the other I am sorry that I "flabbered your gaster" Kopitiam.

 

I did say that I was contemplating, as you quite rightly pointed out, and I'm just exploring options at the moment and still heavily leaning towards bringing the 800K over I have to say, but it would be foolish of me not to explore other avenues if indeed they are available, and the point as to whether they are legal or not is debatable.

 

This is a post from "The Cobra" and it deals with the situation and I have to say that he has a good point......

 

"Can someone please explain how this is illegal.......
 
The agents are clearly visible and advertise what they do.
The Visa is issued by the required authority, and by a an immigration officer who has the authority to issue such a visa.
The Senior Officer has the discretionary power to issue such a visa without ANY financial proof if he deems appropriate.

So, given the above, how the heck is it illegal ???
Manipulating the regs, yes, taking advantage of a situation, yes, illegal ? cant see it".

 

Your point about the "personal financial gain" has given me food for thought and I think that strictly speaking you are right in this, however I do believe, along with many other posters on these forums, that the recent changes have been designed to channel expats into the agent route so this benefits the immigration officers and this has been the case for years.

 

So whether or not I use the channel which has been, to all intents and purposes, created and utilised by immigration and in their opinion is how they wish to do business, again is debatable.

 

I do thank you for your concern, however "law-abiding expats" can still use the monthly income or money in the bank routes without any extra cost if they so wish.

[ThomasThBKK]

That's a logical fallacy, just because it's advertised, doesn't mean it's legal.

The airport fasttrack service was too, yet they cracked down hard on it. 

 

If there is t-money involved and the IO earns sidemoney doing this, it's quite clearly not legal at all, and beeing not aware of this won't protect a user from getting prosecuted if they dare to do so.

 

Nice read: https://www.tilleke.com/sites/default/files/anti_corruption_updated_2009_0.pdf 

 

 

Not judging you for using it, but be aware - might go wrong if you are unlucky.

[Old Croc]

I guess if the practice is illegal, and there's a crackdown, the officer involved will be sent to an inactive post, but the expat will end up much further away.

 

I've had the 800k, and more, sitting in the bank since I started getting the extensions some years ago. It was never intended for use as day to day living costs, so nothing changed for me. It was a requirement for getting the long term visa I wanted, so I have no complaints.   The money still belongs to me, despite some restrictions on using it if I want to retain the visa, and I consider it to be part of an emergency and self-insurance fund.  If I need to repatriate it, currency fluctuations mean it has appreciated in value considerably.

It has proven to be safer in the Thai bank than my funds were in an Australian one. Last year some money disappeared from my account there.

 

Incidentally, I've always submitted the TM7 on 2 pages without comment.

 

 

 

[LivinginKata]

2 hours ago, Old Croc said:

I guess if the practice is illegal, and there's a crackdown, the officer involved will be sent to an inactive post, but the expat will end up much further away.

 

I've had the 800k, and more, sitting in the bank since I started getting the extensions some years ago. It was never intended for use as day to day living costs, so nothing changed for me. It was a requirement for getting the long term visa I wanted, so I have no complaints.   The money still belongs to me, despite some restrictions on using it if I want to retain the visa, and I consider it to be part of an emergency and self-insurance fund.  If I need to repatriate it, currency fluctuations mean it has appreciated in value considerably.

It has proven to be safer in the Thai bank than my funds were in an Australian one. Last year some money disappeared from my account there.

 

Incidentally, I've always submitted the TM7 on 2 pages without comment.

 

 

I know there are many hundreds of mid to high level officers involved in this 'deal'. A poster noted that this more rigid 'rule' adds more 'service' opportunities for IOs ... might be a lot of truth in that comment. 

 

I too take the same view as you is that the 800k Baht is a self insurance emergency fund - additional to my health/accident insurance.

 

Can anyone actually quote an Immigration rule for this 800k then 400k, or is it just all just innuendo/talk. 

 

 

 

 

[Old Croc]

11 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

Can anyone actually quote an Immigration rule for this 800k then 400k, or is it just all just innuendo/talk. 

Police Order No. 35/2561

 

https://news.thaivisa.com/article/31268/foreigners-now-need-to-keep-800k-in-thai-bank-for-three-months-after-retirement-extension-is-granted

[xylophone]

On 7/7/2019 at 2:56 PM, Kopitiam said:

I am flabbergasted that xylophone a respected member of TV is contemplating corrupted means in obtaining his annual retirement visa extension

 

On 7/7/2019 at 6:06 PM, ThomasThBKK said:

Not judging you for using it, but be aware - might go wrong if you are unlucky.

 

On 7/7/2019 at 6:57 PM, Old Croc said:

I guess if the practice is illegal, and there's a crackdown, the officer involved will be sent to an inactive post, but the expat will end up much further away.

STOP PRESS..........

 

Many thanks for the thoughts and feedback on this, they have been much appreciated and I took them on board. So, as I write, there is just over a million baht winging its way from NZ into my BKK Bank account ready to be used for the retirement extension, with a little spending money thrown in.

 

Cheers all.

[Old Croc]

22 minutes ago, xylophone said:

 

 

STOP PRESS..........

 

Many thanks for the thoughts and feedback on this, they have been much appreciated and I took them on board. So, as I write, there is just over a million baht winging its way from NZ into my BKK Bank account ready to be used for the retirement extension, with a little spending money thrown in.

 

Cheers all.

As an NZer can't you go the Embassy letter route?

 

Although this thread raises some doubts:

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1110525-embassy-stat-dec-with-pension-information-not-accepted-by-immigration-office/

 

[xylophone]

10 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

As an NZer can't you go the Embassy letter route?

 

Although this thread raises some doubts:

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1110525-embassy-stat-dec-with-pension-information-not-accepted-by-immigration-office/

 

Well it's a bit complicated OC, because I only get a part pension from NZ and a part pension from the UK so if I was relying on the monthly remittances to the bank here I would have had to top it up on a monthly basis anyway, and I did think about this, however it only takes me to miss one month of "top ups" (in hospital or something like that) and I'm in the proverbial.

 

On top of that, last year when I provided evidence of remittances from the UK and NZ coming into my bank here, along with a lump sum in the bank to make up the difference, after faffing around with the letters I had, and the bank statement, getting his offsider to calculate the exchange rate and so on, he then looked up at me and said, "next year put the 800 K in the bank", more as a statement than an option, which sounded a bit ominous.

 

I used to have the lump sum in the bank and decided to use it, but now reverting to the bank lump sum appears to be the safest way to go and will apparently cover all bases.

 

On a related but separate point, the strength of the baht and the weakness of the UK and NZ currencies further exacerbate the problems with knowing exactly how much to bring over at any one time by way of a top up, so again the 800 K in the bank is the safest and worry free option.

 

I will say that the feedback from posters such as yourself did play a major part in the decision, along with what I've always considered to be "extremely important" as I've gotten older, and that is peace of mind.

[Old Croc]

I always had the state of mind that the 800k was an entrance fee to live here permanently. I wrote it off for other purposes.

The advantage is, it's held in my own bank account and therefore not lost forever. Either myself, or more likely, my heir will get to spend it one day.

 

I initially looked at the new rules regarding monthly income as giving me an alternative to tying up the 800k long term. I was thinking new car!

I already import an additional million plus every year, but move it in lump sums 5 or 6 times a year taking advantage of exchange rate fluctuations. However, the structured monthly payments Immi require, along with sudden death penalties for missing one, made that system untenable.  

[xylophone]

4 hours ago, Old Croc said:

I always had the state of mind that the 800k was an entrance fee to live here permanently. I wrote it off for other purposes.

The advantage is, it's held in my own bank account and therefore not lost forever. Either myself, or more likely, my heir will get to spend it one day.

 

I initially looked at the new rules regarding monthly income as giving me an alternative to tying up the 800k long term. I was thinking new car!

I already import an additional million plus every year, but move it in lump sums 5 or 6 times a year taking advantage of exchange rate fluctuations. However, the structured monthly payments Immi require, along with sudden death penalties for missing one, made that system untenable.  

I do likewise OC, mainly because I spend far too much without really putting any limits on it, but as the costs have been mounting, I thought it time to have a look at the situation, especially as both of the currencies which provide my pension have dropped quite markedly, with one dropping by 30%.

 

Now that I have put 800K aside, I can rest easy on that score, but should really take stock of what I spend, especially on wine because I used to drink a bottle a night although I've cut back to half a bottle now, then as I've said in another post, the health insurance bill of 133,000 baht per annum needs attending to, and then there's...........

 

I also have to start thinking about the future a little more because my ex-partner's daughter (now call her my daughter) has come back from France and started in high school again and is living in Phuket town, so there are now schooling and living expenses as well as paying for her apt etc.

 

On top of that she hopes to go to university, and I haven't really looked into that side of things yet but will have to shortly because I did say that I would fund her through University.

 

Patong as and of itself is not expensive, but things do mount up and the retirement extension scenario plus others has made me stop and think a little about some fiscal responsibility!

[Felt 35]

Have anyone extending their retirement visa lately been asked to prove health insurance cover? When that said I have insurance but not with the cover which previously and on-going are discussed all over Tv!

Felt.

[gk10002000]

How did most of you folks get the 800k baht into the account?  Write a check from the home country, leaving enough time for it to clear, wire the money in, fly in with the cash (would require a declaration in the USA if over 10K traveling to a foreign country), etc.

[merijn]

5 hours ago, Felt 35 said:

Have anyone extending their retirement visa lately been asked to prove health insurance cover? When that said I have insurance but not with the cover which previously and on-going are discussed all over Tv!

Felt.

NO, there is no health insurance requirement when doing a extension based on retirement, and the IO will not ask or care about this.

The health insurance is only applicable when applying for a O-X or O-A visa at the Thai embassy outside Thailand.

[pagallim]

2 hours ago, merijn said:

NO, there is no health insurance requirement when doing a extension based on retirement, and the IO will not ask or care about this.

The health insurance is only applicable when applying for a O-X or O-A visa at the Thai embassy outside Thailand.

Currently not required for O-A visas, only O-X.

[merijn]

19 hours ago, pagallim said:

Currently not required for O-A visas, only O-X.

Your right, Although it is announced that the insurance would be mandatory from July it is not actual implemented yet at this moment.

Will be interesting to see when they are actual asking for it.

[Badrabbit]

It doesn't seem right that coming from another country you must have Insurance but here retirement extension does not need Insurance, something very wrong!
I have Insurance so bring it on.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[merijn]

20 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

It doesn't seem right that coming from another country you must have Insurance but here retirement extension does not need Insurance, something very wrong!
I have Insurance so bring it on.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Be careful what you wish for.

The health insurance for the O-X visa is only excepted from a few Thai companies.

Unless you have the insurance from one of those companies you still have problems.

This could also happen with the insurance you wish for.

[Badrabbit]

Be careful what you wish for.
The health insurance for the O-X visa is only excepted from a few Thai companies.
Unless you have the insurance from one of those companies you still have problems.
This could also happen with the insurance you wish for.

And the companies are?

Sent from my SM-P585Y using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[inThailand]

22 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

It doesn't seem right that coming from another country you must have Insurance but here retirement extension does not need Insurance, something very wrong!
I have Insurance so bring it on.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Your right, it makes no sense. Thai logic at work again, but at least this time its working in the favor of retirees.

[phuketrichard]

2 hours ago, inThailand said:

Your right, it makes no sense. Thai logic at work again, but at least this time its working in the favor of retirees.

wait for it, expect 2020 all living here on extensions will need medical insurance

[Joe Mcseismic]

33 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

wait for it, expect 2020 all living here on extensions will need medical insurance

And is that a bad idea?

[merijn]

19 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

And the companies are?

Sent from my SM-P585Y using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The approved insurance companies are listed in the attached link from the Phuket Immigration Volunteer website.

http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/o-x-2x5-year-extension/

 

16 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

And is that a bad idea?

Not a bad idea as long i'm free to choose the insurance company i like with or without outside patient coverage.

Personally i don't have outside patient coverage as that is something i can pay easily myself.

But i have a +/- 30 million medical coverage a year.

 

[Badrabbit]

I'm guessing this will be a big tea money thing with Immigration, choose certain insurance companies who would then pay Immigration a nice tip, just guessing!

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Badrabbit]

Think you will need 40k OPD no idea if self payment of this will be accepted, you would think so but this is Thailand!

Not a bad idea as long i'm free to choose the insurance company i like with or without outside patient coverage.
Personally i don't have outside patient coverage as that is something i can pay easily myself.
But i have a +/- 30 million medical coverage a year.
 

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, Badrabbit said:

Think you will need 40k OPD no idea if self payment of this will be accepted, you would think so but this is Thailand!

 

 

 

That's the part that would worry me if rules change to health insurance for all retirees. I opt not to take the OPD insurance as it's just not cost effective in my analysis.  Premium almost the same as the cover, make no sense to me. 

[merijn]

13 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

That's the part that would worry me if rules change to health insurance for all retirees. I opt not to take the OPD insurance as it's just not cost effective in my analysis.  Premium almost the same as the cover, make no sense to me. 

What worries me the most is that you are probable forced to use a insurance company recognized by the immigration department.

I have a Cigna worldwide health insurance which covers up to to +/- 30 Million Baht a year but i do not have outpatient coverage as that is easily done by myself.

I don't want to be forced to get a crappy Thai health insurance instead which is even more expensive.

 

 

[Psimbo]

In and out in 20 minutes on Friday, collected it today. No issues with Imm at all.  Photo of me outside residence but not asked for a map.

 

All other paperwork as above.

 

They did not even mention the new rules on the 800/400k issue but the outside guy did call me 'Darling' ????.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Psimbo