U.S. and Russia trade blame over near collision in East Asian waters

[rooster59]

U.S. and Russia trade blame over near collision in East Asian waters

By Andrew Osborn and Tim Kelly

 

A surveillance photo shows the Russian naval destroyer Udaloy making what the U.S. Navy describes as an unsafe maneuver against the Ticonderoga-class guided-missile cruiser USS Chancellorsville in the Philippine Sea June 7, 2019. U.S. Navy/Handout via REUTERS

 

MOSCOW/TOKYO (Reuters) - Russia and the United States blamed each other for a near collision between their warships in East Asian waters on Friday with both countries accusing one another of dangerous and unprofessional behaviour.

 

Acting U.S. Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan said Washington would lodge a formal diplomatic protest to Russia, while a senior Russian parliamentarian said such episodes could easily escalate tensions, which he said were already balanced "on a razor's edge".

 

Russia's Pacific Fleet said that the USS Chancellorsville, a guided-missile cruiser, had come within just 50 metres (165 feet) of the Russian destroyer Admiral Vinogradov which was forced to take emergency action to avoid a collision, Russian news agencies reported.

 

They cited a Russian Pacific Fleet statement as saying the incident took place in the early hours of Friday morning in the eastern part of the East China Sea at a time when a group of Russian warships was on a parallel course with a U.S. naval strike group.

 

"The U.S guided-missile cruiser Chancellorsville suddenly changed course and cut across the path of the destroyer Admiral Vinogradov coming within 50 metres of the ship," the statement said.

 

"A protest over the international radio frequency was made to the commanders of the American ship who were warned about the unacceptable nature of such actions," it said.

 

The U.S. Navy rejected that version of events, saying the behaviour of the Russian ship had been "unsafe and unprofessional".

 

"While operating in the Philippine Sea, a Russian Destroyer ... made an unsafe manoeuvre against USS Chancellorsville," U.S. Seventh Fleet spokesman Commander Clayton Doss said.

 

"This unsafe action forced Chancellorsville to execute all engines back full and to maneuver to avoid collision."

 

He described a Russian assertion that the U.S. ship had acted dangerously as "propaganda". The Russian destroyer came within 50 to 100 feet of the Chancellorsville, he said, putting the safety of its crew and the ship at risk.

 

Acting U.S. Defense Secretary Shanahan said Washington would formally protest.

 

"We’ll have military-to-military conversations with the Russians, and of course we’ll demarche them, but to me safety at the end of the day is the most important (part)," he told reporters outside the Pentagon.

 

"It will not deter us from conducting our operations."

 

The incident comes days after Washington and Moscow sparred over an allegedly unsafe spy plane intercept by a Russian fighter jet near Syria.

 

Alexei Pushkov, a senior Russian parliamentarian, said the near naval miss and other incidents like it were dangerous.

"We're balancing on a razor's edge," he wrote on social media.

 

(Additional reporting by Maria Kiselyova in Moscow and by Phil Stewart in Washington; Writing by Andrew Osborn; Editing by Frances Kerry)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-06-08

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[Tarteso]

Is not clear “who’s bad”!

 

[harada]

Coincidental that Xi is in Moscow right now, his plans to buy the world have fallen in a big hole so it's time to cosy up to Vlad.

[Tug]

Overtaking vessel is give way vessel vessel retrieving aircraft is stand on vessel russan in the wrong only thing the russan could say they were approaching stbd side of us vessel but she was retrieving an aircraft and being overtaken by the russan so she is stand on vessel very unprofessional on the Russians part

[legend49]

If the Yank vessel wasnt there then it wouldnt happen. Bit like farang in an road accident, always to blame 100% on same reasoning.

[mtls2005]

Given the USN's recent "history" of crashing into things I count this as a net positive.

 

Suspect the USS Chancellorsville's ship's laundry is feverishly working to bleach the brown out of ~ 70 pairs of slacks today?

 

As an aside, that photo is interesting. Is anyone familiar with how that was taken? USN? Drone? Aircraft? Seems too low-angled (-82 FT?) for a satellite?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by mtls2005

[Rimmer]

Off topic post and reply removed

[Jdiddy]

Its just a game of chicken they play, happened all the time back in the cold war. Both sides are full of it with their complaints

 

 

[blazes]

It was precisely this kind of near-"accident" (in the Gulf of Tonkin in 1965) that led to the Vietnam War.  Why not with Iran today.  Or, God forbid, with the Russian military.

 

[Jingthing]

I'm no fan of either nation's leader but I reckon if you believe this was the U.S. ship's fault you also believe those Russian poisoners were tourists visiting Salisbury to see the cathedral. 

Edited June 8, 2019 by Jingthing

[jesimps]

The Russians wouldn't know the truth if they tripped over it in the street. Watch the series Chernobyl to see how they lied when half the world was in danger of radiation poisoning. Awful race of people.

[rabas]

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Given the USN's recent "history" of crashing into things I count this as a net positive.

 

Suspect the USS Chancellorsville's ship's laundry is feverishly working to bleach the brown out of ~ 70 pairs of slacks today?

 

As an aside, that photo is interesting. Is anyone familiar with how that was taken? USN? Drone? Aircraft? Seems too low-angled (-82 FT?) for a satellite?

Russians at fault. The image was taken from US aircraft (helicopter). The US vessel was in the process of accepting an incoming aircraft and was flying flags to indicate its status, which gives the US vessel right of way at sea.  The Russians absolutely knew this.

[ThaiFelix]

13 minutes ago, jesimps said:

The Russians wouldn't know the truth if they tripped over it in the street. Watch the series Chernobyl to see how they lied when half the world was in danger of radiation poisoning. Awful race of people.

Take note the Chernobyl series was a US production!!

[Traubert]

6 hours ago, harada said:

Coincidental that Xi is in Moscow right now, his plans to buy the world have fallen in a big hole so it's time to cosy up to Vlad.

What possible connection can there be?

 

'Hey Vlad, cause a near miss in the East China Sea.' Doesn't ring true somehow.

 

He did sell Russia a new 5G network built by Huawei though, so the hole isn't very deep. More of a dimple really.

[Ulic]

No idea who is telling the truth. As for overtaking vessel having the right of way, maybe, but if the vessel being overtaken veers off course into the other boat's path, that is the vessel in the wrong. It is not a match race with the boat with presumed right of way playing games. I expect two big boats acting in a logical and civilized manner to avoid a collision, not a couple of cowboys in a big dick contest on the high seas.

[Traubert]

25 minutes ago, jesimps said:

The Russians wouldn't know the truth if they tripped over it in the street. Watch the series Chernobyl to see how they lied when half the world was in danger of radiation poisoning. Awful race of people.

Three Mile Island? Pot, kettle?

[lannarebirth]

5 hours ago, Tug said:

Overtaking vessel is give way vessel vessel retrieving aircraft is stand on vessel russan in the wrong only thing the russan could say they were approaching stbd side of us vessel but she was retrieving an aircraft and being overtaken by the russan so she is stand on vessel very unprofessional on the Russians part

 

Additionally, given that the "stand on" vessel was recovering aircraft, that makes her "restricted in her ability to maneuver" that makes the Russians doubly at fault.

 

edit: I see you covered that.

Edited June 8, 2019 by lannarebirth

[Sir Swagman]

_{I believe the Russians in this. After all they are making their own version of ‘Chernobyl’ which shows the CIA to blame.}

[MaksimMislavsky]

1 hour ago, Jdiddy said:

happened all the time back in the cold war

and the cold war is full-on back

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, MaksimMislavsky said:

and the cold war is full-on back

Yeah it is, thanks to Putin. 

 

(Note to self -- I guess I need to be a little more careful now when sitting on Russians shamelessly hogging space on Pattaya baht buses. It might trigger and international incident!)

Edited June 8, 2019 by Jingthing

[MaksimMislavsky]

1 hour ago, Traubert said:

7 hours ago, harada said:

Coincidental that Xi is in Moscow right now, his plans to buy the world have fallen in a big hole so it's time to cosy up to Vlad.

What possible connection can there be?

 

'Hey Vlad, cause a near miss in the East China Sea.' Doesn't ring true somehow.

Doesn't sound absolutely impossible, either. Could have even been streamed for the guest to enjoy the show.

[MaksimMislavsky]

Just now, Jingthing said:

8 minutes ago, MaksimMislavsky said:

and the cold war is full-on back

Yeah it is, thanks to Putin. 

There are two to tango...

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, MaksimMislavsky said:

There are two to tango...

Not going to buy that. Not going to buy equivalence on this one. Putin is clearly and objective their more hostile player in this. Ukraine / Venezuela / U.S. elections / Poisoning in England etc. etc. 

[VocalNeal]

Send in Greenpeace or a RN fisheries protection vessel if the Russians want to get really close?

 

 

[usviphotography]

1 hour ago, Ulic said:

No idea who is telling the truth. As for overtaking vessel having the right of way, maybe, but if the vessel being overtaken veers off course into the other boat's path, that is the vessel in the wrong. It is not a match race with the boat with presumed right of way playing games. I expect two big boats acting in a logical and civilized manner to avoid a collision, not a couple of cowboys in a big dick contest on the high seas.

Exactly, the really culprits in this accident are the Neocons. There is absolutely no reason why the US and Russia shouldn't be enjoying all time friendly relations right now. But this embedded class of foreign policy "experts", who brought us the Iraq War and the Libyan disaster, are unfortunately still calling the shots and still putting the world's existence at risk. 

[MaksimMislavsky]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not going to buy that. Not going to buy equivalence on this one. Putin is clearly and objective their more hostile player in this. Ukraine / Venezuela / U.S. elections / Poisoning in England etc. etc. 

When I was young, I perceived this as an opposition between the Commies and the Free World, and was on the latter side. Now I can see it is a much deeper and longer-running kind of conflict. It was there long before the Russian Revolution of 1917 and will still be going on long after Putin is gone (methinks)

[mtls2005]

Of all the issues surrounding the USS Fitzgerald - MV ACX Crystal incident, a few struck me as staggering...

Earlier in the year, a rash of accidents and near misses had spooked the sailors of the 7th Fleet. In January, the destroyer USS Antietam had run aground while in Yokosuka’s harbor. Four months later, on May 9, the USS Lake Champlain, a guided-missile cruiser, collided with a South Korean fishing vessel in the Sea of Japan.

The ship’s email system, for both classified and non-classified material, failed repeatedly. Officers used Gmail instead.

And just before impact...

Instead, Coppock ordered a move that disregarded the very basics of her training.  She commanded the helmsman to gun the destroyer’s powerful engines to full speed and duck in front of the Crystal by heading left. “All ahead flank,” she ordered. “Hard left rudder.”

Helmsman-in-training Simona Nelson had taken the wheel of a destroyer at sea for the first time in her life 25 minutes earlier. Nelson froze, unsure of how to respond.

https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/uss-fitzgerald-destroyer-crash-crystal/

 

https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/us-navy-crashes-japan-cause-mccain/

 

https://www.propublica.org/article/navy-commander-tainted-investigation#

 

[Mavideol]

9 hours ago, Tug said:

Overtaking vessel is give way vessel vessel retrieving aircraft is stand on vessel russan in the wrong only thing the russan could say they were approaching stbd side of us vessel but she was retrieving an aircraft and being overtaken by the russan so she is stand on vessel very unprofessional on the Russians part

nope, Russians always right, they are above any reproach and follow all international laws, it's the USA fault, they were there 555

[jany123]

12 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Given the USN's recent "history" of crashing into things I count this as a net positive.

 

Suspect the USS Chancellorsville's ship's laundry is feverishly working to bleach the brown out of ~ 70 pairs of slacks today?

 

As an aside, that photo is interesting. Is anyone familiar with how that was taken? USN? Drone? Aircraft? Seems too low-angled (-82 FT?) for a satellite?

 

Lol.... and it’s a shame we can’t believe anything coming out of Washington these days, thanks to a normalization of lying to the public verses speaking truths.

 

meanwhile, I think the picture was taken from 11284 feet, (bottom right corner of picture data) whilst the picture is of an object 82 feet below the aircrafts take off point.

 

11284 feet is pretty high for a helicopter, so I’m thinking it was from a carrier launched observation plane of some type.

 

[rabas]

13 hours ago, jany123 said:

Lol.... and it’s a shame we can’t believe anything coming out of Washington these days, thanks to a normalization of lying to the public verses speaking truths.

 

meanwhile, I think the picture was taken from 11284 feet, (bottom right corner of picture data) whilst the picture is of an object 82 feet below the aircrafts take off point.

 

11284 feet is pretty high for a helicopter, so I’m thinking it was from a carrier launched observation plane of some type.

 

11284 feet is pretty high for a helicopter, so I’m thinking it was from a carrier launched observation plane of some type.

 

Just looked, these ships carry MH60 helicopters with an operational ceiling of 12000 feet.

For observational purposes they probably sit just below that.