Why Was Thailand Never Colonised?

[spidermike007]

Some interesting facts pertaining to this issue.

 

4. Formerly known as Siam, the Kingdom of Thailand was never a European colony, although it was sometimes under Chinese or Japanese influence. 

5. Throughout the 19th century, both the French and the British tried to exert their influence over Thailand, ultimately unsuccessfully overall. 

6. The British and French Empires annexed some border areas in Thailand, but never managed fully to control the state or most of its territory – unlike virtually every country in the region.

7. Britain and France ultimately decided that it was wiser to allow Thailand to exist as an independent buffer between their respective colonies in the region. 

8. Britain had colonized Burma to the west and Malaya to the south, while France had colonized Indochina (Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam) to the east.

9. In addition, through adroit diplomacy and selective modernization, the rather brilliant King Chulalongkorn, who reigned 1868-1910, did his part to save Thailand from European colonization.

 

https://www.theglobalist.com/thailand-southeast-asias-buffer-country/

[RJRS1301]

I feel that you are referring to modern history, the negotiating skills Thai Kings and Princes (19th century), needs to be looked at, a lot of Siam was ceded to foreign powers, as well  Europeans needing a buffer zone between themselves is valid. 

 

However if you look at history further back the Khmer certainly colonised Siam (8th century). Their influences remain in modern Thai culture

 

The 1896 treaty to stop France taking the western side of Siam, and effectively stopping Russia and Germany from seizing land needs to be looked at.

 

Edited June 16, 2019 by RJRS1301

[KMartinHandyman]

Obviously they failed to deposit ฿800,000 three months before the invasion and were turned away.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

Er. if the Japs had won WW2 then they would they not be colonized ? So, only thanks to outside sources that they were not

I think I understand what you wrote.  Thailand was Japan's only voluntary ally during WWII and fought beside Japanese troops in the conquest of Burma and shared in the spoils of war (millions of dollars from the opium crop and increased production many times over).  The Japanese paid cash for most of what the Thais provided during WWII as an ally would.  If Japan had won the war Thailand would be a much richer and much larger country.  

[Fex Bluse]

3 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

One big reason the Thais fought on the side of Japan during WWII was the anti Chinese sentiment at the time.  You only have to look at the anti Chinese laws passed in that time period.  Or read a Thai book that referred to the Chinese as the, "Jews of the orient."  You are way off base.  

I'm aware of the fairly brief and limited resistance the Thais put up against some recent Chinese immigrants. I am aware of the secret Chinese language schools and the tendency of Chinese to take local names to avoid discrimination. 

 

However, the Thai effort was limited in scope and easily circumvented. 

 

And, Thailand remains the only country in Asia (outside China) where Chinese dominance is clear and complete. 

 

A cursory glance at the government or the wealthiest families in Thailand would have an uninitiated person wondering if he was in fact even evaluating the right country. Barely a brown person to be found amongst the elite. Millions of brown people relegated to self-hatred and skin whitening creams and (proudly) claiming "I am Thai CHINESE". 

 

Sad

[Fex Bluse]

3 hours ago, Yinn said:

If he not do it I think we would be the third world and poor country same like Laos, Cambodia, and Burma.

Look at them now, the country that the farang  invade and stolen. Have the bad economy, the people must come to Thailand for money and job.

What about Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong? 

 

Or, what about USA or Australia? 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Fex Bluse

[tlandtday]

Well in case you haven't noticed it is being colonized right now by the Chinese.  The Japanese built a railway when they occupied Thailand during WW2.  Well the Chinese are building plenty of them right now all over SE Asia.

Edited June 16, 2019 by tlandtday

[marcusarelus]

42 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

Well in case you haven't noticed it is being colonized right now by the Chinese.  The Japanese built a railway when they occupied Thailand during WW2.  Well the Chinese are building plenty of them right now all over SE Asia.

I believe Thai engineers did the survey work for the railroad and the building was done by POW.  

[Peterw42]

Its just semantics to say Thailand has never been colonised, call it what you like, invaded, surrendered to,  occupied, puppet state, an axis ally. During WW2 Thailand was the Italy of Asia, they were invaded by the Japanese, surrendered within hours, signed a treaty, then as an axis member, declared war on UK, US etc.

They surrendered to, and were controlled by, a foreign power, maybe not the dictionary definition of colonised but very close. And conveniently left out of the national anthem.

[marcusarelus]

14 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Its just semantics to say Thailand has never been colonised, call it what you like, invaded, surrendered to,  occupied, puppet state, an axis ally. During WW2 Thailand was the Italy of Asia, they were invaded by the Japanese, surrendered within hours, signed a treaty, then as an axis member, declared war on UK, US etc.

They surrendered to, and were controlled by, a foreign power, maybe not the dictionary definition of colonised but very close. And conveniently left out of the national anthem.

1942 The Thai (Ally of Japan) Phayap Army invaded Burma.  They controlled the Shan state and other areas with their profitable opium trade until they surrendered to the Allies at which time they had to give back all of the captured territory.  The PM was charged with war crimes and Thailand paid war reparations.   

 

A reading of secret papers with the Thai PM and Japan will confirm a deal was made before Japan landed in Thailand.  Japan paid for all Thai assistance during WWII as an ally not as an occupied state.  Or maybe you know of an occupied state that was allowed to keep it's complete army and invade neighboring states while occupied?  Ally - has army and helps ally.  Occupied state - gets army disbanded and country raped and pillaged.  

[Traubert]

Both the British and the French had ambitions to colonize Thailand but at every turn they found 100,000 half drunk, fat, elderly Farangs telling them they were doing everything wrong by pigeon post.

[RJRS1301]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

I believe Thai engineers did the survey work for the railroad and the building was done by POW.  

As slave labour for the occupying forces>>oops Thai ally

[from the home of CC]

5 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Er. if the Japs had won WW2 then they would they not be colonized ? So, only thanks to outside sources that they were not

and if there wasn't 'outside' sources available in ww2 the Brits would be speaking German.. 

[Bullie]

6 hours ago, Yinn said:

 

 

 

Yes Neeray.

And this thread will make all the people who like to say the stupid thing about Thai everyday on the thaivisa say more stupid thing. Strange life, have the brain problem.

 

King 5 was very clever and stopped the farang invade us. That is why he a “great king” for the Thai people. King 4 also help a lot.

 

If he not do it I think we would be the third world and poor country same like Laos, Cambodia, and Burma.

Look at them now, the country that the farang  invade and stolen. Have the bad economy, the people must come to Thailand for money and job.

 

 

If anyone interested, should look at this one https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Khamhaeng_Inscription

 

Maybe real, maybe the fake. But it one of the reason farang not invade. Farang believe it then. King is very clever with the farang invade situation.

 

 

I see that you cleverly manage to avoid mentioning Vietnam. Invaded, plundered and destroyed by respectively the French and the U.S.

And yet rapidly overtaking Thailand economically and intellectually. Therefore, your argument does not fly.

I Think western nations took what Thai land they wanted, and just left the rest of Thailand alone because there was not really anything of interest left to them at the time.

[from the home of CC]

2 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

What about Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong? 

 

Or, what about USA or Australia? 

without slave labor the prosperity never would of happened..

Edited June 16, 2019 by from the home of CC

[RJRS1301]

4 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

and if there wasn't 'outside' sources available in ww2 the Brits would be speaking German.. 

and no problem with Brexit

[Thongkorn]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Some interesting facts pertaining to this issue.

 

4. Formerly known as Siam, the Kingdom of Thailand was never a European colony, although it was sometimes under Chinese or Japanese influence. 

5. Throughout the 19th century, both the French and the British tried to exert their influence over Thailand, ultimately unsuccessfully overall. 

6. The British and French Empires annexed some border areas in Thailand, but never managed fully to control the state or most of its territory – unlike virtually every country in the region.

7. Britain and France ultimately decided that it was wiser to allow Thailand to exist as an independent buffer between their respective colonies in the region. 

8. Britain had colonized Burma to the west and Malaya to the south, while France had colonized Indochina (Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam) to the east.

9. In addition, through adroit diplomacy and selective modernization, the rather brilliant King Chulalongkorn, who reigned 1868-1910, did his part to save Thailand from European colonization.

 

https://www.theglobalist.com/thailand-southeast-asias-buffer-country/

The rather brilliant King Chulalongkorn Went to England to ask Queen Victoria for help, Because France was in the process of Colonizing Thailand. Queen Victoria Listened and had a word with her relatives in Germany, England and German stopped France from Colonizing Thailand, 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Bullie said:

I see that you cleverly manage to avoid mentioning Vietnam. Invaded, plundered and destroyed by respectively the French and the U.S.

And yet rapidly overtaking Thailand economically and intellectually. Therefore, your argument does not fly.

I Think western nations took what Thai land they wanted, and just left the rest of Thailand alone because there was not really anything of interest left to them at the time.

Thailand is twice as big as Vietnam with 3 times the money and infrastructure.  What Vietnam has that Thailand does not is red mud and corrupt communism.  I've lived in both places.  If I had a farm in Vietnam and a home in he** I'd sell the farm and move home.  

[Yinn]

7 hours ago, neeray said:

Clarity: When I said "There's lots of "stupid" where I come from !", that was not referring to Thailand. Surprise, surprise, that was referring to Canada.

I am appalled on a daily basis at some of the born and raised Canadian people that I meet (and same for USA).

From an earlier posted comment (?), I must agree, Thais are very resourceful. And from another poster (?), there are "stupid" people in every country, probably in an equal percentage to each other.

I have respect for Thais, particularly for the hard work of many. And having done business with many dozen, their level of service was above that of my home country. No complaints !

Yes I understood that. I put the stupid comments first and then put your one for agree with you ka.

Thankyou

[Orton Rd]

8 hours ago, Yinn said:

 

 

 

Yes Neeray.

And this thread will make all the people who like to say the stupid thing about Thai everyday on the thaivisa say more stupid thing. Strange life, have the brain problem.

 

King 5 was very clever and stopped the farang invade us. That is why he a “great king” for the Thai people. King 4 also help a lot.

 

If he not do it I think we would be the third world and poor country same like Laos, Cambodia, and Burma.

Look at them now, the country that the farang  invade and stolen. Have the bad economy, the people must come to Thailand for money and job.

 

 

If anyone interested, should look at this one https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Khamhaeng_Inscription

 

Maybe real, maybe the fake. But it one of the reason farang not invade. Farang believe it then. King is very clever with the farang invade situation.

 

 

Thailand was partially colonised because large areas of it was given over to the Brits and French to keep what was left in Thai hands, look at the map on here. Yes your ASEAN former colonized neighbours do come to Thailand for work, while poor Thais go to Korea, the middle east and Australia to do the same, often illegally. The fact that Thailand has a slightly better economy at the moment than those countries is hardly a valid argument against colonialism which ended decades ago, and they are catching Thailand up fast while Thailand does nothing about the vast wealth inequality.

Had Thailand been colonised completely it would not only be far larger but probably be far less corrupt and have a better education and legal system, we would also be able to get some decent bread as well!

Thais continually boasting about never being colonised is understandable, they don't have a lot else to be proud of compared to their neighbours! Most Thais are poor third world people, that is why the government has to give out so much in hand outs every month, most Thais have very little so the 300 baht a month card helps.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Orton Rd

[Yinn]

4 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

What about Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong? 

 

Or, what about USA or Australia? 

 

Singapore do the great job. Very impressive. Good government. Not much corruption, so they have very success. But I think the lifestyle not so good, mostly live in small condo etc To many rule.

 

Malaysia ok. But not so much fun as Thailand. I go there before.

 

Hong Kong, I don’t really know about that.

 

Australia and USA is different, The farang not colonies, they take it over complete. The farang kill a most of Native American and the Aborigine. Rape and steal. And still they have a lot of problems. First world country but the native American and Aborigines not have the benefit so much. So I really don’t want to be like that.

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, Yinn said:

 

Singapore do the great job. Very impressive. Good government. Not much corruption, so they have very success. But I think the lifestyle not so good, mostly live in small condo etc To many rule.

 

Malaysia ok. But not so much fun as Thailand. I go there before.

 

Hong Kong, I don’t really know about that.

 

Australia and USA is different, The farang not colonies, they take it over complete. The farang kill a most of Native American and the Aborigine. Rape and steal. And still they have a lot of problems. First world country but the native American and Aborigines not have the benefit so much. So I really don’t want to be like that.

Native American have it rough.  Below a photo of what one tribe did with land and preferential treatment from American Government.  Looking at the second photo I don't think the Australians do as well.  

[Yinn]

2 hours ago, Bullie said:

I see that you cleverly manage to avoid mentioning Vietnam. Invaded, plundered and destroyed by respectively the French and the U.S.

And yet rapidly overtaking Thailand economically and intellectually. Therefore, your argument does not fly.

I Think western nations took what Thai land they wanted, and just left the rest of Thailand alone because there was not really anything of interest left to them at the time.

No. We about double vietnam every way you want to compare. 

Have a look, then make a comment. They are very poor.

https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/vietnam/thailand

 

Happy to teach you about that Bullie.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Yinn

[Chrisdoc]

I believe Thai engineers did the survey work for the railroad and the building was done by POW.  

I believe 12000 Western prisoner of war died on the railway but this was very few compared to the 90000 native workers who died who were from Thailand and surrounding countries.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-8304F1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Chrisdoc]

1942 The Thai (Ally of Japan) Phayap Army invaded Burma.  They controlled the Shan state and other areas with their profitable opium trade until they surrendered to the Allies at which time they had to give back all of the captured territory.  The PM was charged with war crimes and Thailand paid war reparations.   
 
A reading of secret papers with the Thai PM and Japan will confirm a deal was made before Japan landed in Thailand.  Japan paid for all Thai assistance during WWII as an ally not as an occupied state.  Or maybe you know of an occupied state that was allowed to keep it's complete army and invade neighboring states while occupied?  Ally - has army and helps ally.  Occupied state - gets army disbanded and country raped and pillaged.  

Vichy France.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-8304F1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Yinn]

8 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Yinn-I admire the cut of your jib.

My English not at that level yet.

 

8 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

 

You are a breath of fresh air on this forum.

 

May I invite more of your colleagues to join this forum as their views would certainly enhance the overall debate?

I will ask them, but I only can understand about 50% of what everyone say. My English teacher still help me a little.

 

i work the hotel before. So I know most farangs the good and polite people. But if another Thai read thaivisa they will think most farangs hate us.

 

I think a lot of the hate people are very lonely guy. Can not get a wife in there country, so come to Thailand and buy the low class bargirl. They think they can buy love, and get angry with all of Thailand because it not happen how they want. Then have a lot of problem. Social outcast with real Thai people. Pitiful a bit.

I know this people not the normal farang.

[marcusarelus]

25 minutes ago, Chrisdoc said:

I believe 12000 Western prisoner of war died on the railway but this was very few compared to the 90000 native workers who died who were from Thailand and surrounding countries.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-8304F1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The Thai workers got paid according to the railroad journals.  Don't think it was a good job buy they signed on to do the work as opposed to being slave labor.  

[Odysseus123]

9 minutes ago, Yinn said:

My English not at that level yet.

 

I will ask them, but I only can understand about 50% of what everyone say. My English teacher still help me a little.

 

i work the hotel before. So I know most farangs the good and polite people. But if another Thai read thaivisa they will think most farangs hate us.

 

I think a lot of the hate people are very lonely guy. Can not get a wife in there country, so come to Thailand and buy the low class bargirl. They think they can buy love, and get angry with all of Thailand because it not happen how they want. Then have a lot of problem. Social outcast with real Thai people. Pitiful a bit.

I know this people not the normal farang.

Yes-it is because most of us speak in vernacular English.It is quite easy to "listen" to a Brit,American or an Aussie and "hear" the different syntax or stress on the words-not to mention the idiosyncratic figures of speech.It is equally easy to detect the absolute frauds as they come fast and furious at times.

 

Nevertheless,I for one,neither dislike the Thai or Thailand but be prepared for the usual rough and tumble when it comes to debate amongst us Westerners..

 

Have a great time.

[CGW]

22 minutes ago, Yinn said:

I think a lot of the hate people are very lonely guy. Can not get a wife in there country, so come to Thailand and buy the low class bargirl. They think they can buy love, and get angry with all of Thailand because it not happen how they want. Then have a lot of problem. Social outcast with real Thai people. Pitiful a bit.

I know this people not the normal farang.

I don't believe you are far off with your summary Yinn, good observation, a lot have never lived in a foreign country before and still think everything should work like they are used too & are unable to come to terms with a different culture.

[dddave]

9 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

One big reason the Thais fought on the side of Japan during WWII was the anti Chinese sentiment at the time.  You only have to look at the anti Chinese laws passed in that time period.  Or read a Thai book that referred to the Chinese as the, "Jews of the orient."  You are way off base.  

Japan also supported Thailand regaining Lao provinces annexed by the French.  I believe there were also French defined borders with Cambodia that the Thais were challenging with Japan's help.