Do Thai Parents Spoil Their Kids

[egeefay]

When I compare our American raised daughter to her Thai cousins I notice that she is a lot more self reliant and independent. When our daughter was growing up as a teenager she was a big headache. But now that she is out of college and supporting herself, we see eye to eye more often.

Her Thai cousins , on the other hand, are well into their 20’s and even 30’s . Most are still living at home (the Thai preference). Their parents who make a lot of the decisions for them. (what to eat, who to date, what to wear and not to wear)

Problem is, many of her Thai cousins are having trouble getting their lives off the ground. Even after college they seem to be floundering around trying to find a career. They seem content living at home with their parents..free room and board.

I have often suspected that many Thai parents aren’t tough enough with their kids. I’ve never seen my Thai in-laws spank their kids or ground them. I’ve never even heard them scold their kids. Whenever the kids do something wrong the Thai parents seem to cover for their kids or look the other way

Which leads me to wonder if a lot of other Thai kids are being raised the same way…too spoiled and reliant on mom and dad for too long

[undercover]

When I compare our American raised daughter to her Thai cousins I notice that she is a lot more self reliant and independent.

.................................

Yes and what most of us males have come here to get away from is that self reliant and independent western attitude. Im not saying that a female being independent is wrong but what I believe is that these days in western society the relationship between male and female has somehow collapsed, many of my friends over there that are single and looking for a partner tell me they get shotdown by the girls simply saying hello. the girls are not gaining anything by this as they feel alone and unwanted,

Im not sure who is to blame here, who started it ? could be an interesting thread,

I know for a fact it wassent always like this in the west, in the 70s/80s the girls and boys did talk,

Was it us males that in the 90s diddent show the girls enougth respect or something and the girls all decided to give us the cold sholder and it has escalated to the aggressive situation we find ourselves in now when even smiling at a farang woman while walking past is met with a cold stare.

[Boo]

Wow it took one post to go from difference in parenting technics to the "supposed" sex war between western men & women.

keep it on topic & take your issues off thai visa pls undercover.

I think the main difference I have noticed is parents/schools in LOS don't teach their kids to be free thinkers or to question, rather than the kids being too spoiled.

I put a lot of blame of the school system, rote learning doesn't encourage the kids to question why, instead they learn to just do what they are told. Nice in some ways but not really a good way to teach kids to problem solve & be proactive IMO.

The cultural aspect of looking after the parents & all staying together can give the impression of them being spoiled or less independant but it is often hard work for the children as they can't spread their wings too far as their responsibility to their parents means they have to be close by.

Or else, if they live away then they are still expected to support the parents financially so the apron string is still there, albeit stretched. In the west parents tend to take care of their kids forever rather than the other way round but then in Thailand there is no social welfare in LOS so everyone pulls in to support the older generation.

My husband tells me what a bad son he was when he was younger as he left home young to follow his dream of playing music rather than following in his dads plan for him to become a mechanic. To me I think he did the right thing as you can't live your parents life but his mum makes references often to his too free nature (he is 37y/o!!) & he still feels a lot of guilt over not being the good son he thought his dad wanted (his dad has been dead for more than 10 years). So these ideas run deep & are ingrained from an early age.

It is no better than the west & no worse either IMO, just a differnt way of looking at things.

[think_too_mut]

Could be, a low pay for anything you do in Thailand, the jobs for youngsters before all.

To buy an iPod, a young person in the US may work at McDonalds and get it within 2 weeks or even in a few days (depending on the model).

No way to make it in Thailand on 18 baht per hour (that's what Mc pays).

Hence, Thai parents don't push their kids into a futile work that brings them nothing, they might even think the kids may be exposed to some undesirable scenes. For 18 baht an hour.

[Heng]

Some spoil them, some don't, just like in any society. And even then, it's still not black and white. For my own upbringing (Thai raised in the US; 2 Thai parental units), I was somewhat spoiled (according to some; not spoiled compared to many of my friends and relatives) right up until I graduated from university.

For me, the free ride ended at age 21 after graduation. Moved to Bangkok to be close to my parents, with a rough plan to take the local business world by storm with a list of a dozen or so businesses (quick oil change centers, bagel factory and shops, perhaps open up a Fat Tuesday's or Carlos and Charlie's franchise, etc..... wound up doing none of them) that just needed startup capital (ehm... family funds please). Surprise, you're not getting any, sport. For one, you can't even read and write Thai. Second, you've never run a business in your life. Collecting rent and helping out around our shops, gas stations, and restaurant stateside isn't "running a business." You're welcome to live on the family estate, free room and board, we'll put in a good word at the various businesses owned by relatives if you want a job job, and of course you have the option to wait for your sizable inheritance if you don't mind waiting... the catch is we don't plan on dying for another 40+ years.... you'll only be 60 or so by then, heck, I'm still waiting for my own inheritance from grandpa. I thought about it for a bit and decided I didn't want to wait that long.

Anyway, the abbreviated version, had to go through a couple of years of being poor (but yes, living comfortably at home), riding the bus and the klong boats, taught English, worked for the Public Relations dept. reading the news, helped out at the family computer speaker factory, before finally saving enough to start my own business. 11 years later, I have my own assets, both liquid and dirt, no debt, and I'd say I've done okay.

For the Heng's, we've done family life US style (parents worked long hard hours for 25-30 years, me and my siblings grew up latch key style for several extended periods of hectic business activity for my folks) and Thai style (we still all live together, here in Bangkok, albeit in separate homes on the same piece of property; because of the cost structure of life here, a lot of work gets delegated to others and there's more time for the family to actually be together). I like the Thai version. As for being spoiled when I was younger... I don't think it did any irreparable damage. If anything it gave me a nice frame of reference when I finally did have to go out and tread water and swim.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Another thing to remember is that the parents will be expecting to live the kids in their old age. I bet the OP isn't planning living with his/her daughter.

Truly a case of what goes around comes around!

Edited March 13, 2007 by The Dan Sai Kid

[undercover]

Yeah I drifted a bit there didden't realize this was in the Kids section,

So back to the Kids, I think being a spoiled Kid to me is a Kid that is bought everything that Kid wants, The Kid grows up not knowing the value of money, has no idear of what poorer Kids have to go through, a spoiled Kid becomes a spoiled person, arrogant and always right.

On the other hand giving a Kid a chance at a good education or mooving to another country with better oppertunity for the Kid, I don't see that as being spoiled.

All I can say about the Thai kids around my way is they all seem to be much better behaved than the ones back in the uk, That is up to the age of about 15/16 then their just as bad as our Kids only these carry guns.

[Heng]

So back to the Kids, I think being a spoiled Kid to me is a Kid that is bought everything that Kid wants, The Kid grows up not knowing the value of money, has no idear of what poorer Kids have to go through, a spoiled Kid becomes a spoiled person, arrogant and always right.

I think it's important to note that just growing up wealthy doesn't necessarily = not knowing the value of money and that being poor as a kid doesn't always equate to being able to manage what little funds one has.

[madjbs]

Very true Heng. Also I believe that people that have seen both sides of the coin often manage to have a much better sometimes more positive view on life. I for example have gone from a fairly well off childhood in the UK and Hong Kong to a very cheap one here where I live for around 15000 baht a month. I can now see that money really has a very limited connection to happiness and I can really enjoy my life without having to have the pressure of achieving a high paying job or buying expensive cars etc..

As for the original post, well I defiantly don’t think the majority of Thai kids are spoilt. The majority of parents simply don’t have enough money to spoil the kids. Also most of your reasons why you think Thai Kids are spoilt are simply just facts of Asian culture. It shouldn’t be seen as wrong or not as good as western ways just because it’s different to what you know.

Jake

Edited March 14, 2007 by madjbs

[Heng]

It shouldn’t be seen as wrong or not as good as western ways just because it’s different to what you know.

Jake

^An excellent point that is rarely considered in these types of discussions.

For parents who want their kids to 'earn their keep' here, there aren't too many opportunities for being employed before they graduate from university/college/or tech school unless you happen to be fortunate enough to have your own business to employ your children in (and even then, some might feel that it's not as good a way to teach responsibility as working as outside the family). True, you can send them out to earn 167-250 Baht per day, but it's difficult to get that to sync with situations like "we'll buy you a car, but you have to pay the insurance," which might be a common scenario in countries where kids have more earning opportunities.

It just means parents need to be a little more dedicated and perhaps creative if they want to instill these values (money management, value of money, being frugal but prudent, etc.) in their kids. It'd be interesting to hear some ideas from those who don't want this to be some kind of farang Thai cultural slanging match.

[GuestHouse]

I think we should separate two things here.

The spoiling of Physical self reliance (being able to provide for yourself)

And the Spoiling of Emotional self reliance (being able to be yourself).

We also need to stop comparing 'Western (Europe/Australasia/The US/Canada etc) with Thailand - I mean let's at least be realistic in accepting these cultures are hugely varied.

So I'll do what most of us do and view what I see of Thai culture from my own family experience.

In the material sense, I don't think Thais in general do spoil their children, most Thais simply do not have enough wealth to do so. But I think of far more concern on a society level is the lack of questioning materialism and where Thais are wealthy there is little evidence of any social responsibility with that wealth.

There are very many extremely wealthy Thais, they might pay for a new temple building to buy a bit of good Karma for the future, but they are not following the example of wealthy Westerners (there you go I did it too) who gift money and time to charities working with the disadvantaged, funding education etc. It just does not happen in Thailand.

The emotional independence thing is a lot more marked. I have commented here before on the way Thai parents reinforce some very questionable emotions in their children.

Here in Rome we have a steady string of visitors from Thailand, many of the Thai Airways crew stay in a near by hotel and visit with my wife while they are here. Other friends and friends of friends call through too.

Not once, but many times I have heard Thais, here with us in Rome, talking to their children in Thailand over the phone. The emotional manipulation Thai paretns use on their children never ceases to shock me.

When I talk to my children from overseas I make a point of listening to what they have been doing, what they want to say and tell me, I absolutely avoid any reinforcement of them missing me, beyond acknowledging that we do miss each other. I reassure them I'll be home soon, or that I'm looking forward to the weekend/holiday but I do not do what nearly every Thai I've overheard does.

'Your missing mum, aren't you'.... 'Tell me how much you are missing me' .... 'I've been crying all day because I miss you'.

'Oh you are lucky, you are eating lovely Thai food, I'm in this cold place with no friends and can't find any Thai food, I hope you appreciate what I have to go through for you'.

It's relentless. The Psychological damaging of young minds.

No wonder so many Thais grow up incapable of being able to operate as an individual.

[egeefay]

As the original poster, let me be clear that my Thai relatives are by no means wealthy.

They are middle class: teachers, accountants, tour guides etc. All are either in college or have gone to college. They all work for someone else; none of them is a business owner. Also, they are ethnic Thais...no mix if Chinese culture.

I think "Guest House" may have come closest to the experience I've seen among my Thai relatives.

When he said he had overheard Thai parents talking on the phone to their kids: Your missing mum, aren't you'.... 'Tell me how much you are missing me' .... 'I've been crying all day because I miss you'.

When I read that my first reaction is "wow. sounds just like the way some of my relatives talk to their kids"

One of my Thai sister in laws treats her 21 year old son just like a baby. In fact she keeps calling him by his "baby" name instead of his real name. And she keeps referring to herself as "mummy". She loves cutting up his meat on his plate before he eats. She makes sure to cook foods he likes. He relies on her for every decision....even what foods to pick out a a buffet. She loves that he is so dependent on her.

Another practice that I can't seem to get use to is having adult children sleep in the same bed as their parents. It's all very innocent but many of my daughter's Thai cousins like to sleep in their parents bed.

It seems to me that Thai children are raised as children all their lives.

Whereas we tried to teach our daughter to grow up, make her own decisions and get her own life

Thai parents seem to want their kids to be dependent on them, to rely on them to make a lot of their kids' decisions.

[GuestHouse]

I'm glad I'm not the only one to have seen this.

What I would say is I don't for a moment believe it is an expression of 'Love', rather a manipulation to instill dependency.

On one of my other posts (General Branch) I wrote of how where ever we have been assigned, we move around with my work quite a bit, we have always come across a person I call 'Khun Latch' - Obviously not the same person but a Thai who will latch on to my wife and or other Thais. I mean latch on 24/7, can't shaker her off sort of thing.

They all exhibit the same characteristics of a total inability to be by themselves - Totally reliant on having someone around them and totally reliant on others to define who they themselves are.

I believe this, and the other phenomenon, of adults falling on the floor sobbing at the airport as their brothers/sisters/parents set off overseas, is a direct result of Thais crippling their children with guilt and dependency.

Much is said of the good sides of Thai family life, and I agree there are many many good things, but this dependency thing is not healthy and something I guard against in the raising of our children.

[somtaamgaiyang]

I think we should separate two things here.

The spoiling of Physical self reliance (being able to provide for yourself)

And the Spoiling of Emotional self reliance (being able to be yourself).

We also need to stop comparing 'Western (Europe/Australasia/The US/Canada etc) with Thailand - I mean let's at least be realistic in accepting these cultures are hugely varied.

So I'll do what most of us do and view what I see of Thai culture from my own family experience.

In the material sense, I don't think Thais in general do spoil their children, most Thais simply do not have enough wealth to do so. But I think of far more concern on a society level is the lack of questioning materialism and where Thais are wealthy there is little evidence of any social responsibility with that wealth.

There are very many extremely wealthy Thais, they might pay for a new temple building to buy a bit of good Karma for the future, but they are not following the example of wealthy Westerners (there you go I did it too) who gift money and time to charities working with the disadvantaged, funding education etc. It just does not happen in Thailand.

The emotional independence thing is a lot more marked. I have commented here before on the way Thai parents reinforce some very questionable emotions in their children.

Here in Rome we have a steady string of visitors from Thailand, many of the Thai Airways crew stay in a near by hotel and visit with my wife while they are here. Other friends and friends of friends call through too.

Not once, but many times I have heard Thais, here with us in Rome, talking to their children in Thailand over the phone. The emotional manipulation Thai paretns use on their children never ceases to shock me.

When I talk to my children from overseas I make a point of listening to what they have been doing, what they want to say and tell me, I absolutely avoid any reinforcement of them missing me, beyond acknowledging that we do miss each other. I reassure them I'll be home soon, or that I'm looking forward to the weekend/holiday but I do not do what nearly every Thai I've overheard does.

'Your missing mum, aren't you'.... 'Tell me how much you are missing me' .... 'I've been crying all day because I miss you'.

'Oh you are lucky, you are eating lovely Thai food, I'm in this cold place with no friends and can't find any Thai food, I hope you appreciate what I have to go through for you'.

It's relentless. The Psychological damaging of young minds.

No wonder so many Thais grow up incapable of being able to operate as an individual.

Many Thai mothers are very manipulative, but this is a lot down to religion with mothers being the fountain of knowledge and the glue that holds a family together. Don't forget, Dad's in Thailand can pretty much up sticks whenever they want, all that mothers have to hold onto are their kids. All Thais have a terrible fear of being alone, particularly in old age, hence they are terrified for their kids to move away.

It is wrong that they manipulate so much, and I have seen it first hand. I have even heard it said, how dare you disobey me, you were raised on my milk!!!

[Alf Witt]

I always have difficulty with this concept of "spoilt" (or is it "spoiled") children.

It seems to me that it an expression often employed by the underprivileged to detract from the advatages that privileged children enjoy.

Treat a child well, send him or her to a good fee-paying school, don't over-discipline them so that their own character emerges, introduce them to life experiences by travel, provision of computers, horse-riding etc., don't employ physical punishment (because that teaches that violence is acceptable*) and you are spoiling your child by the definition of some. On the other hand, let a child experience hardship, strict discipline and deny him or her material goods and that child will not be spoiled, by the same definition.

The extension of that philosophy is that the first child will grow into a "spoiled" adult who will have no sense of material value or personal character as everything has been provided for him / her as a child whereas the latter will appreciate the value of things and develop "character".

I say absolute nonsense. It's simply a formula for making the underprivileged feel better about their lot. Children learn and develop through experience, exposure and support. You don't have to scrape a living from a rubbish heap to appreciate material values. The so called "spoiled" children know that they are lucky and appreciate it. The underprivileged kid will learn that his role in life is to be subservian, to obey and to have low expectations.

If the underprivileged kid has the character to succeed he will probably do so (in some measure, shape or form) despite the fact that his or her childhood has been truly "spoiled" through lack of privilege or opportunity. (that definition I can relate to). If the privileged child does not make it it is despite the fact that he has been provided with a formula for success, not because of it. Its simply a character deficiency which would manifest itself anyway. We are not all born equal. A lot has to do with genetics.

*Some adults justify physical punishment of children with the stated objective that they don't want to "spoil" them. That really angers me. It simply means that the adult lacks the character and mental resources to direct and influence the child positively by other means. Also it doesn't work. It simply generates resentment which manifests itself in later years (teenage). When I see an adult hit a child I just wish that someone double the adult's height and weight would come along and give them a good spanking to teach them a lesson. Its despicable.

I suspect that the problem with the OP's Thai relatives is a result of lack of real opportunity, "good" education, and different social conditions and norms. I don't think the concept of "spoiled" is appropriate in these circumstances nor in most circumstances where it is employed.

[GuestHouse]

*Some adults justify physical punishment of children with the stated objective that they don't want to "spoil" them. That really angers me. It simply means that the adult lacks the character and mental resources to direct and influence the child positively by other means. Also it doesn't work. It simply generates resentment which manifests itself in later years (teenage). When I see an adult hit a child I just wish that someone double the adult's height and weight would come along and give them a good spanking to teach them a lesson. Its despicable.

OK I've heard your sermon.

I have two children. I've slapped the first twice and the second once.

#1.1 Child bit other child - This is beyond reason, a slap put an end to that.

#1.2 Child repeatedly wandering behind the back of the TV set and pulling the plugs out. - Again this is beyond reason, a slap put an end to that.

#2.1 Child poking cat with knitting needle. Again beyond reason, a slap put an end to that behaviour.

Now you can preach on the ills of slapping children until the cows come home, you aint going to convince me.

You do it your way, I'll do it my way and if you want to compare notes, let's do that when our children are adults, mine seem to be doing extremely well despite their ecounters with 'child beating'.

[Alf Witt]

#1.1 Child bit other child - This is beyond reason, a slap put an end to that.

#2.1 Child poking cat with knitting needle. Again beyond reason, a slap put an end to that behaviour.

Now you can preach on the ills of slapping children until the cows come home, you aint going to convince me.

Mmm. You teach them not to by violent by being violent. Sensible.

By the Way. My children are already adults. So I know the result.

[GuestHouse]

Mmm. You teach them not to by violent by being violent. Sensible.

By the Way. My children are already adults. So I know the result.

Right, so let me do it my way.

Unless you are telling me that the same liberal hogwash that has created the violent 'don't give a <deleted> about anyone else' societies we now have to put up with should be rammed down the throats of parents on the basis that you regard parental slapping of children to be violence.

You've had your crack at liberal experimentation with your own kids, don't presume to be experiment with mine.

[Alf Witt]

Q1."Right, so let me do it my way."

O.K. big man, Sinatra, "I did it my way - and slapped a few kids on the way"

Q2."Unless you are telling me that the same liberal hogwash that has created the violent 'don't give a <deleted> about anyone else' societies we now have to put up with should be rammed down the throats of parents on the basis that you regard parental slapping of children to be violence."

Haven't a clue what you are talking about.

Q3."You've had your crack at liberal experimentation with your own kids, don't presume to be experiment with mine."

So non-violence necessarily equals liberal expirimentation in your view? The kind of shallow thinking that permits a kid to "repeatedly" play with electrical plugs and then blames the kid. You don't say how old the kid is. If he/she is old enough to reason with an explanation of the dangers should work. If not, he/she is obviously not being adequately supervised.

Can't really be bothered to argue with you. I'll send the boys round to put a severed horses head in your bed.

[Tyree D.]

^^^bought back a semi-old topic!!!

the answer to the question is yes. They are given 20,000 baht phones that they are using to make dirty videos. I wish I had that when I was 15.

As for the second poster, that's true. That's why many guys come to LOS and why I actually left. Some people like the screwed and outdated values of some and only some Thais. Let's just see how these kids will turn out 5-10 years from now. That's the only thing that will prove it everything today is worth it.