14 hours ago, billd766 said:

How odd. The only person seeming to disagree with me is Chomper Higgot whose post I replied to originally. Humanity is one thing but when it personally affects you, that is something different.

 

Oddly enough I sort of think that many of the humanitarians in the world think that it is a great idea until it affects them personally, at which point the tune changes. 

 

If you really believe it then take a refugee family into your own house and be 100% responsible for them, In other words, put your money where your mouth is and sponsor a complete family.

Lol.... ok... it’s a slow Sunday.... I disagree.

 

one does not need to take in a family to be compassionate, and thereby play out some kind of PR stunt to prove ones compassion, one simply needs to act compassionately. (Thoughts and deeds)

 

in being a tax paying, law abiding citizen of a nation wherein it’s people determine its path (there are 8 countries in the world with electoral systems which are not deemed to be flawed... obviously this does not include Italy... or the US), I require that tax money is spent on sea rescue and responsibly managing refugees.... but it’s not only about compassion... the issue is far bigger... there’s also complying with international law... and there’s also immediate self interest.... because I’d want to be plucked out of the sea, rather than be arbitrarily sentenced to drown ( as some here appear to be advocating)... as who would know, without investigating, what my citizenship or personal status was?

 

that, in my view, is both compassionate and responsible... to the suffering, and to the future of our nation and it’s place within the world. My money is already in my mouth.... I already pay the piper

 

But... hypothetically... if I could afford to, would I?....lol ... no... I would fund a half way house and pay qualified staff to care for the refugees, which I deem far more responsible than inviting refugees into my home, wherein I’m not qualified or equipped to offer care or counsel..... and this is why we pay for our government to do just that.

 

as to....

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

Ian't that what you and others like you want governments in the area to do at the taxpayers expense.

In part... yes... that’s why we pay tax.... but as significant (more-so for some) is wanting governments to follow international law and established norms, until such time as those laws are acceptably changed (and become norms), because we all need to play within the same guidelines vs different strokes for different folks, and we all need to be able to rely on our partners and allies to do their part. (In this instance... solas)... this ability to be able to rely on our international partners is critical to stable international relationships... partners acting unilaterally can have disastrous effects. (I’m guessing a glaring example is not needed here)

 

But... I did not reply earlier, because your hypothetical is flawed. We cannot act as individuals to solve the problem, we must act as a collective. The issue is not isolated to managing the aftermath, which is what your hypothetical requires. The issue must include mitigation (or prevention) of the problem

 

 

20 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

They went in the sea to be rescued! No one has the right to illegally migrate to another country just because they fancy it.

There is nothing illegal about seeking asylum in a safe haven

 

18 hours ago, arithai12 said:

Common mistake: confusing economic migrants with refugees.

How do you know their financial status, that is a common mistake many make., assuming they know things without evidence to back the claim

The UNHCR decides who is and who is not a refugee, do you do the assessments?

Have you interviewed them, checked the bone fides?

 

Edited June 30, 20197 yr by RJRS1301

1 hour ago, Ozman52 said:

The captain has claimed that she had the right to enter the port because of an emergency.

" The need which we have on board is psychological and that's the reason why I declared the state of necessity," she said of her decision."It's like keeping the people here in a type of prison … keeping them here on board and not giving them access to a place of safety is a very, very grave thing."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-30/asylum-seeker-rescue-ship-captain-arrested-sea-watch-3/11264932

 

All of 17 days and they are suffering "ship fever".

 

Yep... that’ll get her out of jail and back onto the bridge of her ship. 

 

Its not about 17 days and ship fever, which is a statement deliberately meant to trivialize.... it’s about the phycological stress one is under over time, and how that stress may manifest itself. 

 

“Its a very very grave thing”, and she is right to identify it as such, and take proactive steps to mitigate any fallout under her command.

 

The ships master has a duty of care. Managing that stress (or any situation) amongst both crew and refugees, is her call alone, as part of that duty, and it would be extremely neglectful and reckless of the international community to lay down laws that circumvent a masters duty on the seas, as we now accept it.

 

To find this master guilty, the courts must prove she acted recklessly or with disregard for international law, which, on the face of it, seems highly unlikely. At worst, she might be deemed to have acted impulsively or outside of her authority, and have her rating withdrawn, unless she confesses to a premeditated crime.

1 hour ago, atyclb said:

 

additionally when my grandparents emigrated the usa did not even have the welfare system later enacted. my grandparents had to work hard and were not given a place to live, food stamps, payments for children.

Good for them.

 

Let’s not pull up the ladder then.

well done - she is a slave smuggler, deserve to be in jail !

6 minutes ago, Jerry787 said:

well done - she is a slave smuggler, deserve to be in jail !

Is this breaking news?

Assumedly you are stating that the refugees are now up for sale... did you see that on Craigslist?

 

2 hours ago, Ozman52 said:

The captain has claimed that she had the right to enter the port because of an emergency.

" The need which we have on board is psychological and that's the reason why I declared the state of necessity," she said of her decision."It's like keeping the people here in a type of prison … keeping them here on board and not giving them access to a place of safety is a very, very grave thing."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-30/asylum-seeker-rescue-ship-captain-arrested-sea-watch-3/11264932

 

All of 17 days and they are suffering "ship fever".

 

She should have argumented in addition she did not want to have her ship hijacked by migrants unwilling to return to the port of embarcation  

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

According to Al Jazeera she rammed an Italian vessel when docking. If for nothing else, that deserves jail time.

Wonder how many will be willing to contribute to that charity in future?

"In recent days, a group of activists has launched a crowdfunding campaign to pay the legal fees of Sea-Watch. The initiative has reached more than €350,000 so far."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/29/sea-watch-captain-carola-rackete-arrested-italian-blockade

1 hour ago, RJRS1301 said:

There is nothing illegal about seeking asylum in a safe haven

 

Thats right. 

 

However you CAN NOT cross a border illegally and without permission in an attempt to skirt our laws. 

 

Its really that simple. 

7 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Thats right. 

 

However you CAN NOT cross a border illegally and without permission in an attempt to skirt our laws. 

 

Its really that simple. 

You certainly can.

 

Once you claim refugee status its a whole different issue. Anyone claiming refugee status is considered a refugee until determined otherwise.

17 minutes ago, Sujo said:

You certainly can.

 

Once you claim refugee status its a whole different issue. Anyone claiming refugee status is considered a refugee until determined otherwise.

The problem is that it is no longer "anybody", it has become "everybody". 

3 hours ago, Ozman52 said:

The captain has claimed that she had the right to enter the port because of an emergency.

" The need which we have on board is psychological and that's the reason why I declared the state of necessity," she said of her decision."It's like keeping the people here in a type of prison … keeping them here on board and not giving them access to a place of safety is a very, very grave thing."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-30/asylum-seeker-rescue-ship-captain-arrested-sea-watch-3/11264932

 

All of 17 days and they are suffering "ship fever".

 

so why not take them back where they came from?

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

2 hours ago, atyclb said:

additionally when my grandparents emigrated the usa did not even have the welfare system later enacted. my grandparents had to work hard and were not given a place to live, food stamps, payments for children.

Good for them.

 

Let’s not pull up the ladder then.

 

agree, so let aspiring refugees do what my grandparents did, apply legally, list the reasons why they should be considered refugees and or immigrants; skills, education, languages, what desirable qualites that will benefit the recipient country, etc etc, rather than storming borders as in the usa /mexico border.

 

what gives them the right to jump the queue ahead of those that have applied and are waiting????

16 minutes ago, atyclb said:

what gives them the right to jump the queue ahead of those that have applied and are waiting????

 

A combination of peoples “feelings” and their unspoken but thinly veiled desire to flood a nation with a favorable future voting block. 

 

Thats really all it amounts to. 

Not really. The best thing to do would be for citizens like yourself is to contact the Italian government to take all of the refugees from this boatload under your own responsibility and let them live with you.
 
You personally would be responsible for obtaining visas for them all, feeding and clothing them, paying for their accommodation and be responsible for their welfare. In addition if they break any laws you will share their punishment.
 
Ian't that what you and others like you want governments in the area to do at the taxpayers expense.

Well said.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Well of course, those human beings are not the same as the human being you believe you are. 

 

Take them in then. All talk & no action. 

Off topic posts, offensive posts and the replies have been removed. 

8 hours ago, Opl said:

She should have argumented in addition she did not want to have her ship hijacked by migrants unwilling to return to the port of embarcation  

Perils of being a human trafficker. She knew the risks going on. Good for Salvini for taking such a hard line on this. If German criminals want to traffic in humans, they should at least have the decency to haul their illicit cargo all the way back to the German ports. Imagine the arrogance of thinking you could get away with something like this? Apparently her Daddy is some kind of millionaire arms dealer. Six years is the can and seizing the boat is too light of a penalty for sure, but at least Italy is doing something to address the problem and going after the traffickers is definitely the right approach. Next target should be the paymasters behind them. 

Edited June 30, 20197 yr by usviphotography

On 6/29/2019 at 4:15 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

I disagree with your views re the captain, ship and what they have been doing, but you are entirely right to call out the comments regarding her appearance. 

 

Oddly whenever such remarks are made they are invariably directed against women. 

Or Donald Trump and then the entire get along gang starts beating their chests and nothing is said.

"The German captain of a ship rescuing migrants said she disobeyed orders not to dock in Italy because she feared those on board would kill themselves."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48818696

 

Here it is, the ultimate threat. Give me what I want or I will kill myself, and it's your fault. The trouble is that 17 days isn't near long enough for the threat to be credible.

19 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

On 6/29/2019 at 7:42 PM, arithai12 said:

Common mistake: confusing economic migrants with refugees.

How do you know their financial status, that is a common mistake many make., assuming they know things without evidence to back the claim

The UNHCR decides who is and who is not a refugee, do you do the assessments?

Have you interviewed them, checked the bone fides?

 

it's only a wild guess but could it be because they did not book the voyage on the "queen elizabeth"

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 12:56 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

‘Rammed’? 

 

I suspect the people who donate to this particular charity have a different outlook than yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take it up with Al Jazeera.

18 hours ago, Thainesss said:

 

A combination of peoples “feelings” and their unspoken but thinly veiled desire to flood a nation with a favorable future voting block. 

 

Thats really all it amounts to. 

its also the law that gives them the right.

Off topic posts and replies removed, if you find a particular post objectionable or breaking forum rules and it should be removed please report it.

Regret it is no use asking for post number .... to be removed as moderator posts numbers are not the same as member post numbers.

17 hours ago, Thainesss said:

 

Take them in then. All talk & no action. 

Do you think the govt would allow him to take them?