Almost expelled at DMK

[Benray]

Hi,

Canadian, late 30s. Working in VN. I've been visiting Thailand and entering under Visa-Exempt entry (free 30 day stamp) about 6-8 times per year for the past 15 years. I've never applied for a tourist visa or any other kind of visa. I have never overstayed or had any other legal trouble; visiting only for tourist reason: visiting friends and family, meetings, R&R, using the airport after staying for a few days, etc.

In January 2019 I arrived at DMK as usual and presented myself at immigration. I was escorted behind the line of IOs to a desk for about 15 minutes and made to wait. No information was provided at this point and no questions were asked. 

After this, a visibly agitated female IO "captain" told me I was forbidden to enter Thailand and to follow her to the "processing room" where things got interesting. I was lead into a room down the hall where there were 6 or 8 police busy working on their own tasks who barely looked up. My name was written on a big whiteboard and staff were transcribing my details into big old-fashioned ledgers. Luckily I was allowed in the room proper as there were others who were being detained who were made to wait outside (all from Africa/ ME based on their appearance and names on the board)

The "captain" asked what I was doing there so often and I answered that I was a tourist. She shook her head no and said there was nothing she could do- I was "in the system already". I was presented with a printout of all my entries and exits in and out of TH- I think it was about 25 trips since I got my current passport. 

A rep from the airline that delivered me there from VN was called and I was asked to sign a document in Thai. I refused. And waited. And smiled. And waited some more. 

I was not asked about having a flight out of TH or enough $ to support myself or if I had accommodation booked. After another solid 45 minutes or smiling and acting dumb (me) the "captain" relented and I was allowed in. I haven't dared come back since but do have a trip planned for September. 

I was kind of peeved over the whole debacle and one passport page was ruined. Can anyone translate what that stamp means and if my experience was a common one? Since it happened I've been trawling through the forum here and it seems like this kind of treatment is becoming more normal.

 

 

[asiaexpat]

Get a visa before returning otherwise you will have the same problem.

[ubonjoe]

It is a standard denial of entry stamp that was canceled.

It states you were denied entry under section 12 clause 2 which is "2. Having no appropriate means of living following entrance into the Kingdom."

It really means nothing now since it was canceled.

[varun]

If you're working (legally) in VN, maybe you should consider carrying a copy of your VN work permit as proof?
I imagine this would somewhat negate the need to prove you're a tourist.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by varun

[scubascuba3]

Get a tourist visa, they seem to hate those slightly less than visa exempts

[chainarong]

I've given Thailand away long ago but I knocked up 28 days in one year when miming O/S, these immigration people have no idea of the fly in out system they think everyone does bank hours , I got questioned back in 16 and have never bothered to return except for a month last year to see the Lad and my pet dog Lady.

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, varun said:

If you're working (legally) in VN, maybe you should consider carrying a copy of your VN work permit as proof?
I imagine this would somewhat negate the need to prove you're a tourist.

 

 

 

 

I get your reasoning but could easily have opposite effect. Has a job in Vietnam and enters los so often..

To means his job entails business in Thailand. Anyway as we all are well aware that io do not even look at the funds in your pocket, flight out etc. Just refuse on grounds you cannot support yourself. 

[Briggsy]

14 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Get a tourist visa, they seem to hate those slightly less than visa exempts

Tourist visa will make no difference, well, perhaps a small difference. Many reports of SETV and METV holders being denied for the same reason.

 

Interesting that they changed their minds after stamping the passport. It adds evidence to the theory that these denials of entry are not recorded on the computer records or only recorded where BKK can see them and thus may be informal denials.

 

I am also surprised that the OP was not passed over to the airline liaison staff who try to pressure denied foreigners to buy tickets or pay for date changes of return legs.

 

When the OP comes back in September, he should consider using a new passport or a land border.

[CygnusX1]

Approximately how many days a year in total were you staying in Thailand?

 

I just wish the Thai government would enact a law clearly specifying how many days in a year people can stay in the country using visa exempt and short term tourist visas.

 

I like holidaying in Croatia in the European summer, and that country’s possibly more restrictive than Thailand in total stay allowed, max of 90 out of any 180 day period, but it’s perfectly CLEAR. None of that trepidation I used to feel when entering Thailand before getting the elite visa.

[balo]

You should have told them you had a job in Vietnam. And visit friends here. Bring some documents next time to prove you are not working in Thailand. 

[dotpoom]

Well written and I must say...you handled the situation very well, (sometimes I am a bit hotheaded).

[LawrenceN]

Translation: The first two lines just say you came in on NokAir 22 Jan. The next lines are too smudged to read, but appear to cite immigration law. The handwritten line at the bottom is key, says you were told to get a visa. 

 

I'm not gonna argue with those saying otherwise about the visa. I just translated what's there.

[Chicken George]

6 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

Approximately how many days a year in total were you staying in Thailand?

 

I just wish the Thai government would enact a law clearly specifying how many days in a year people can stay in the country using visa exempt and short term tourist visas.

 

I like holidaying in Croatia in the European summer, and that country’s possibly more restrictive than Thailand in total stay allowed, max of 90 out of any 180 day period, but it’s perfectly CLEAR. None of that trepidation I used to feel when entering Thailand before getting the elite visa.

I think allowing max of six months in a year on Visa exempt or tourist visa would sort the problem. Same as the UK. Would then let everyone understand .. Running year not calander. Sorted. Want to stay longer then get a different visa.

[mfd101]

6 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

I just wish the Thai government would enact a law clearly specifying how many days in a year people can stay in the country using visa exempt and short term tourist visas.

Vagueness, lack of clarity, no precision is buried deep in Thai culture. Ever tried to organize a meeting for a set starting time? It goes with mai pen rai, passivity, hierarchy, & people-focus vs task-focus  ...

[Briggsy]

The handwritten note at the bottom says, "told to get a visa".

 

@Benray Can I assume that you arrived in Thailand on a one-way ticket? You might have had a ticket back but it was not a return leg of the flight you came in on?

 

I say the above because the airline would have been told to get you to use your return portion if you had one.

 

I note now at Don Meuang they have a stamp saying ไม่มีปัจจัยยังชีพ!!!! Must be using it a lot.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Briggsy

[Caldera]

6 hours ago, balo said:

You should have told them you had a job in Vietnam. And visit friends here. Bring some documents next time to prove you are not working in Thailand. 

I'm not sure how much value these "You should have told them..." recommendations have, although they make perfect sense, when in reality the IOs in question rarely seem willing to listen to anything the traveler might have to say. They are an unprofessional bunch with an agenda, properly questioning people to establish who's a "good guy" and who's a "bad guy" doesn't seem to be part of their script.

 

Take the OP as an example, and there have been many similar reports. Apparently the OP only got their attention by refusing to sign their silly little forms. Clearly that's something that's not supposed to happen.

[nightfox]

So your saying you been visiting Thailand and entering under Visa-Exempt entry (free 30 day stamp) about 6-8 times per year for the past 15 years and why you are being almost expelled?????......Are you that naive? IF a Thai or any other citizen was to enter Canada 6-8 times a year without the proper visa and say to immigration I'm just a tourist, don't what do you think immigration would grill them about their stay and raise their suspicious about their intention just like any boarder control any any country?......So why do you think Thailand is any different?

[Briggsy]

7 minutes ago, Caldera said:

I'm not sure how much value these "You should have told them..." recommendations have, although they make perfect sense, when in reality the IOs in question rarely seem willing to listen to anything the traveler might have to say. They are an unprofessional bunch with an agenda, properly questioning people to establish who's a "good guy" and who's a "bad guy" doesn't seem to be part of their script.

 

Take the OP as an example, and there have been many similar reports. Apparently the OP only got their attention by refusing to sign their silly little forms. Clearly that's something that's not supposed to happen.

Good post. As someone who has been through this process, I believe you are right. They are not interested in excuses. The issue has been predetermined.

 

The signing of the form may be to do with money. This generally does get their attention. Who will pay to take the foreigner away? The airline? Not unless they have an obligation. The foreigner? Not if they refuse or just play dumb. Immigration? Not on your nelly! Who will pay to feed the foreigner at the airport detention centre? If the foreigner doesn't sign and agree to the 800 Baht a day 'accommodation' charge, then it falls to Immigration or the Airport or they starve the foreigner.

[Fairynuff]

1 hour ago, Chicken George said:

I think allowing max of six months in a year on Visa exempt or tourist visa would sort the problem. Same as the UK. Would then let everyone understand .. Running year not calander. Sorted. Want to stay longer then get a different visa.

So make a firm rule that every single IO will interpret in their own way according to how they feel at that moment.

[SOTIRIOS]

...sounds like an agent 'jumped the gun'....???

 

..they are so eager....to get recognition....???

 

...overall...practically clueless...with a 'God complex....???

 

...then they gotta hope they are right...you don't call their bluff...???

 

...or that is the outcome....as described...???

 

...absolutely unprofessional....and utterly uncomfortable and inconvenient for us...!!!

 

 

[arithai12]

11 minutes ago, SOTIRIOS said:

...sounds like an agent 'jumped the gun'....???

Think so too. The 45 minutes internal discussion was probably about how to save face.

[PerkinsCuthbert]

Yes, the handwritten note implies that the IO told you to get a visa, even if that wasn't the case. So you'll almost certainly be OK if:

a) You get a TV before attempting to enter again, and

b) Show the IO on entry the handwritten note if they cut up difficult again; it shows you've followed their instructions.

[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory post and replies to it have been removed.

[Ulic]

1 hour ago, nightfox said:

So your saying you been visiting Thailand and entering under Visa-Exempt entry (free 30 day stamp) about 6-8 times per year for the past 15 years and why you are being almost expelled?????......Are you that naive? IF a Thai or any other citizen was to enter Canada 6-8 times a year without the proper visa and say to immigration I'm just a tourist, don't what do you think immigration would grill them about their stay and raise their suspicious about their intention just like any boarder control any any country?......So why do you think Thailand is any different?

You are mistaken regarding Canada. An American can come and go as they please to Canada. No restrictions on the number of times in a year. Just don't work. Canada also has a 10 year family visa. Meet the conditions, (basically healthcare insurance, and family living in Canada) and stay up to 10 years, (also renewable) come and go as you please.

[Darkside Gray]

Avoid DM.

[bkkcanuck8]

2 hours ago, nightfox said:

So your saying you been visiting Thailand and entering under Visa-Exempt entry (free 30 day stamp) about 6-8 times per year for the past 15 years and why you are being almost expelled?????......Are you that naive? IF a Thai or any other citizen was to enter Canada 6-8 times a year without the proper visa and say to immigration I'm just a tourist, don't what do you think immigration would grill them about their stay and raise their suspicious about their intention just like any boarder control any any country?......So why do you think Thailand is any different?

Actually, Canadian immigration is more likely to grill a Canadian thinking they are smuggling ????

 

Focus generally is not working illegally in Canada, if they are working illegally in Canada they don't tend to make that regular of a trip as people that are actually working illegally don't want to cross the border as often.  Canada as an example though is a bad fit, since the geography makes regular flights in and out a bit of a nightmare due to distance from anywhere except an American border and tourists have up to 6 months on a single entry -- and if you want to extend it you must apply at least 30 days before the end of the period.

 

If you are working in Vietnam, I think that actually letting them know that would be the best option.  You would be best to get visa for the next visit - but also providing documentation of your employment in Vietnam.  If you are employed, the odds of you actually working here drop considerably. 

[Mavideol]

21 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Get a tourist visa, they seem to hate those slightly less than visa exempts

yeah, they need the money, visa exempts free, apply for visa $$$$

[chilidog]

I had an issue once with immigration when flying into swampy. I had a valid non-O visa as well and I was still pulled out of line and questioned. I was only targeted because the immigration official that checked me was having a bad day and being a D*ck to everyone. I could see he was having issues when I was standing in the line. Now I pay attention to the mannerisms of the official who is doing the stamping and if they show signs of being agitated I go to another line.

[overherebc]

3 hours ago, nightfox said:

So your saying you been visiting Thailand and entering under Visa-Exempt entry (free 30 day stamp) about 6-8 times per year for the past 15 years and why you are being almost expelled?????......Are you that naive? IF a Thai or any other citizen was to enter Canada 6-8 times a year without the proper visa and say to immigration I'm just a tourist, don't what do you think immigration would grill them about their stay and raise their suspicious about their intention just like any boarder control any any country?......So why do you think Thailand is any different?

The biggest difference would be the possibility of 'access to public funds' available to anyone who decides they want to stay in say Canada or UK.

Legal help for free to help you fight against deportation etc.

Overstay your 'visa' here and it's a whole different ball game.

The only way the 'turned back at airport' will go away is no entry without a visa of some kind, ie drop the VE but that would be a big problem for the tourist figures.

If you work offshore two weeks on/off from Thailand and want to spend all your off time here I see no problem with back to back VE entries, there is no law against doing so.

[ratcatcher]

23 hours ago, Benray said:

visiting friends and family,

Are these members of your Thai family or do you have Canadian relatives here? Just wondering.