Tehran fumes as Britain seizes Iranian oil tanker over Syria sanctions

[Morch]

23 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, they don't.

 

They have some very unclear video that shows some people remove a mine. Nowhere is it proven that those people removing it were Iranians, and it is not proven that the people removing it were the same ones responsible for attaching it in the first place.

 

As for the video being conclusive evidence, or even clear one - agreed.

 

Assuming it does show people removing a mine attached to the tanker - it would be reasonable to think that they are the ones responsible for attaching it (or playing for the same team, anyway). Otherwise, their actions do not make much sense. If the "clip people" were of the side-who-didn't-attach-the-mine, then whatever evidence their actions resulted in would have been already used to discredit the opposition.

 

I don't think Iran outright denied the people filmed are Iranian. Could be wrong.

 

[petemoss]

12 minutes ago, Morch said:

I don't think Iran outright denied the people filmed are Iranian. Could be wrong.

You are wrong. They have repeatedly categorically denied it.

[Morch]

Just now, petemoss said:

You are wrong. They have repeatedly categorically denied it.

 

They have denied responsibility for the attacks. They dismissed the clip. I don't recall an outright denial of details appearing in the clip. If you would be so kind as to support the claim with something, it would be nice.

[petemoss]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

They have denied responsibility for the attacks. They dismissed the clip.

What more do you want?

[Morch]

Just now, petemoss said:

What more do you want?

 

Saying "it's not true" doesn't mean a whole lot in this context. Judging from your posts, seems enough for you, though.

 

As far as I recall, nothing along the lines of this-isn't-an-Iranian-vessel (accompanied by evidence), or these-aren't-Iranian-personnel (accompanied by evidence).

 

 

 

[bristolboy]

13 hours ago, BestB said:

Highly unlikely for a full scale war, no one can afford one . If I had to guess , most likely some skirmish and then either willingly will sit down or crawl to Putin for help 

I think there's plenty of evidence from the past to show that the Iranian leadership is willing to endure a lot more pain than is Donald Trump.

[BestB]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

I think there's plenty of evidence from the past to show that the Iranian leadership is willing to endure a lot more pain than is Donald Trump.

Really? What evidence is that ?

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, BestB said:

Really? What evidence is that ?

We could start with the Iran Iraq war. You should look up some of the horrifying fact of what the Iranian leadership endured and committed. 

[bristolboy]

Whereas it was reported the Tucker Carlson and others talked Trump out of a retaliatory airstrike because of the harmful effect an escalation would have on his reelection prospects.

[BestB]

28 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

We could start with the Iran Iraq war. You should look up some of the horrifying fact of what the Iranian leadership endured and committed. 

So how is iran Iraq war evidence of what trump can endure ?

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, BestB said:

So how is iran Iraq war evidence of what trump can endure ?

Iran Iraq war is evidence of the harsh consequences of violence the Iranians can endure. Trump's decision not to retaliate with an airstrike shows how little he cares to endure.

[BestB]

27 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Iran Iraq war is evidence of the harsh consequences of violence the Iranians can endure. Trump's decision not to retaliate with an airstrike shows how little he cares to endure.

Really? so trumps decision not to retaliate shows how little he cares to endure? lets hear more, try finding some google links to make it less of a troll posts

[PhonThong]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

Whereas it was reported the Tucker Carlson and others talked Trump out of a retaliatory airstrike because of the harmful effect an escalation would have on his reelection prospects.

Tucker Carlson........????????????

Are you going to tell me Tucker Carlson was in the situation room with all the Generals and Secretary of Defense?

Edited July 6, 2019 by PhonThong

[rott]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by rott
Erroneous

[Ozman52]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

So how is iran Iraq war evidence of what trump can endure ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ramadan

 

Open the link, scroll down to The Battle, and read the 3rd paragraph - its content is sickening, children being used to clear minefields the fast way. Iranian leadership couldn't give a flying fig for massive losses of their population because they know that martyrdom means instant access to Paradise. Losses of that magnitude would see Trump dragged out of the Whitehouse and lynched.

[BestB]

3 minutes ago, Ozman52 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ramadan

 

Open the link, scroll down to The Battle, and read the 3rd paragraph - its content is sickening, children being used to clear minefields the fast way. Iranian leadership couldn't give a flying fig for massive losses of their population because they know that martyrdom means instant access to Paradise. Losses of that magnitude would see Trump dragged out of the Whitehouse and lynched.

And that shows what Trump can or can not endure?????

[Sujo]

50 minutes ago, PhonThong said:

Tucker Carlson........????????????

Are you going to tell me Tucker Carlson was in the situation room with all the Generals and Secretary of Defense?

What generals and sec of defence? What makes you think Trump listens to them. He knows more than the generals.

 

But the way he works is they tell him something and he agrees. Then he turns on the tv and changes his mind.

 

Trump listens to no person unless they tell him he is the messiah.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

Really? so trumps decision not to retaliate shows how little he cares to endure? lets hear more, try finding some google links to make it less of a troll posts

I got news for you. Something isn't a troll post just because it annoys you. But if you think it is one, you should do everyone on thaivisa.com a favor and report it.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

Really? so trumps decision not to retaliate shows how little he cares to endure? lets hear more, try finding some google links to make it less of a troll posts

As for my contention that he didn't strike out of fear of the political consequences. Here's what American Greatness, that pro-Trump website reports:

"According to reports, he was influenced by severe criticism leveled against our Iran policy by Fox News personality Tucker Carlson. On his show early last week, Carlson called National Security Advisor John Bolton a “bureaucratic tapeworm” who seems to have learned nothing from America’s failed venture in Iraq. He also has privately advised the president against war with Iran as a mistake of policy and a serious impediment to reelection, according to numerous reports.

https://www.amgreatness.com/2019/06/25/give-tucker-carlson-the-nobel-peace-prize/

[Ozman52]

25 minutes ago, BestB said:

And that shows what Trump can or can not endure?????

No it was telling you what the Iranians can and have endure,  up to 80,000 killed, 200,000 wounded, and 45,000 made prisoner of war.

 

If you think the US or Trump can handle that sort of attrition for some foreign war, you are seriously deluded.

[bristolboy]

33 minutes ago, BestB said:

And that shows what Trump can or can not endure?????

Let me try to spell it out for you as simply as I can. Iran is wiling to endure huge death and destruction if that's what it takes.

Trump is unwilling to lose even an election

[StevieAus]

On 7/5/2019 at 12:40 PM, petemoss said:

It was the Royal Navy not the "Gibraltar Navy" that acted. 

 

Although the Brits used the excuse of EU sanctions on Syria, it was never about that. In reality, it was US sanctions on the export of Iranian oil which was the issue. The intel and request to stop the ship came from the US. The EU had no idea that it was happening, hence the noises from Spain.

 

As I said, expect much more of this when Boris is PM. Boris likey licky big orange botty!

Yes,  not that it matters to me but Boris if elected might get a nice free trade agreement.

Thought of that?

[BestB]

17 minutes ago, Ozman52 said:

No it was telling you what the Iranians can and have endure,  up to 80,000 killed, 200,000 wounded, and 45,000 made prisoner of war.

 

If you think the US or Trump can handle that sort of attrition for some foreign war, you are seriously deluded.

Its telling me nothing. It is telling me that Iran was at war for 8 years with another inferior state.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, StevieAus said:

Yes,  not that it matters to me but Boris if elected might get a nice free trade agreement.

Thought of that?

There are already very low tariffs and very few obstacles to trade between the US & the UK. The 2 biggest areas and other impediments are autos and agriculture. The UK's auto industry looks like it's going to be in permanent decline. As for agriculture, who's got more to lose if free trade should occur in that area?

[BestB]

11 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Let me try to spell it out for you as simply as I can. Iran is wiling to endure huge death and destruction if that's what it takes.

Trump is unwilling to lose even an election

and you know this how exactly? is that the very same expert who just yesterday proclaimed that vessel seizure has nothing to do with agreement only to be shown otherwise.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, BestB said:

Its telling me nothing. It is telling me that Iran was at war for 8 years with another inferior state.

Nonsense. It says they were able to endure brutal losses against an enemy that was aided by the Saudis and the United States. The salient point being that they were willing to put up with it. They had no electoral consequences to face. Can Trump say the same? The guy who campaigned on disentangling the US from the Mideast?

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, BestB said:

and you know this how exactly? is that the very same expert who just yesterday proclaimed that vessel seizure has nothing to do with agreement only to be shown otherwise.

The vessel seizure had nothing to do with the nuclear deal. Absolutely nothing. It had to do with violations of European sanctions in place since 2011. As the article noted.

[BestB]

10 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Nonsense. It says they were able to endure brutal losses against an enemy that was aided by the Saudis and the United States. The salient point being that they were willing to put up with it. They had no electoral consequences to face. Can Trump say the same? The guy who campaigned on disentangling the US from the Mideast?

They were willing to put up with what? a tit for tat war with inferior army which US wiped out in 1 day?

 

Stop with the nonsense already

[BestB]

10 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

The vessel seizure had nothing to do with the nuclear deal. Absolutely nothing. It had to do with violations of European sanctions in place since 2011. As the article noted.

And you right there again ????

 

Olivier Dorgans, an economic sanctions expert at Hughes Hubbard & Reed law firm in Paris, said the British move appeared intended to send a warning to the Iranians that if they pushed on with their nuclear breaches, European countries would act:

 

"This was done for political effect. The British are warning the Iranians."

 

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, BestB said:

They were willing to put up with what? a tit for tat war with inferior army which US wiped out in 1 day?

 

Stop with the nonsense already

The US wiped out an Iraqi army that had been starved of funds for several years thanks to sanctions and no longer had the chemical weapons that it used on the Iranians. Stop with the ignorance, already.

And are you saying that Trump would send the armed forces to invade Iran? That would be outright electoral suicide.

Edited July 6, 2019 by bristolboy