Thailand’s tourism – stormy weather ahead

[chrisandsu]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I could have helped you if you asked before she went to college.  My wife's college networking system is the reason all of her friends have high paying jobs.  Like Yale in America.  

Nepotism is alive and kicking . 

[lapamita]

3 minutes ago, lapamita said:

tourists down,,,,, ohh wooooww, they find out after 3 years of decline

 

 

good luck the 30% less ,is from the low number last year,so its not a lot more down,bcs already was down

 

and they dont relize the problems  still

 

f.....ing crackdowns on condos, umbrellas e cigarette, on bars, on no beer on beach   to whatever bullshit

and mounting rubbish ,dirt , polution and traffic

and its becommng a poilce state...never seen anywhere so many checks for whatever

 

party over

 

NO PARTY NO MONEY...................... pattaya was the city of fun,.,,and not the wish of brainless politicans who think its

- a marine paradise

a sport paradise

a familly resort

or even the

high end lady campaign 2018 pattaya

 

 

waste of shit

 

change ??????  no  , or only when its to late, brains need to long to workit out

 

 

I  give a  shit on, bcs already sold nearly all, bought hom in turkey..and atthe moment in marine paradise in NOSI BE  ...thats a marine paradise,with good party and prices same phuket 30 year ago

 

31  years in thailand comming to an end  for me..........................

 

[Traubert]

Seeing as no-one believes TAT, how about UNTWO? Or are the United Nations liars and incompetents too?

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericrosen/2018/09/06/new-rankings-of-the-worlds-fastest-growing-tourism-destinations/#f74674957eae

 

As I'm fairly sure that no-one (or very few to be fair to the open minded on here) will open this link because they might have to revise their opinions and feel a bit put out (i.e. lose face, a much derided Thai characteristic here on TV), here's a few figures from the UN.

 

The Chinese tourist spend in 2018 was 19.8% of the worlds total tourist spend, $258bn. Zero dollar tourists eh? Cah! A mere quarter of a trillion dollars. Add together spends from American, British, Australian and Canadian tourists (i.e. English speaking nations) and together they pip the Chinese by $14.1bn.

 

However, UNTWO found that 4/5 or 80% of tourists travel within their own region, so it's fair to say that the Chinese lumped a lot of cash into the Asian tourist economies and the English speakers didn't. More than half of the worlds tourist revenue was spent in Europe.

 

Vietnam, the new Mecca for the visa dodger, showed a year on year inbound tourist increase of 29.1% but it started from a low number compared to Thailand and anyway, bearing in mind the above, the increase was mainly Chinese anyway. Thailand ranks tenth in the world overall visitor arrivals with 34.5m. China is fourth with 60.7m. France is still top. 86.9m.

 

So why isn't Thailand begging the whiteys to come more? Well according to the UN, they don't spend enough money, or visit often enough.

[Andy Rawai]

I'm in Koh Samui, I have been here many times but never have I seen a lack of tourists like now. Resort I'm in is running at 10% capacity. Sad

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[Destiny1990]

Hey lighten up at least some Indians still enjoying it here.

So milk that out while it last !

meanwhile whole industries feeling the pain : Real estate, Condominiums, hotels, shops, malls, restaurants staff, jobs , language schools, international schools   etc etc.

a country relying on tourism should try everything to attract overseas visitors long and short term !

Whats the advantage for smogging out foreigner visitors who than have to relocating to Vietnam Cambodia?

 

[Isaan sailor]

6 hours ago, nuckyt77 said:

Get the Baht back to where it belongs. At a third world country's rate towards the Yen, the dollar and the Euro.  Like a previous poster said: I am not willing to pay higher prices here then when in Europe. I think that the Thai government should learn that contrary to what they think most Europeans, Australians and Americans can count. 

 

This country is just getting too expensive for the much needed tourists. And with tourists I do not mean the  "share 1 soda with five" Chinese groups or the "girl-sharing" Indian boys I see parading along Beachroad in Pattaya.

 

Tourist do not care who is in charge here or how long it takes to form a new government but they do care if they feel cheated. All of my European friends of which many have been coming since many years now not show up. Because of the political situation ?...oh no that they are used to by now.  It is the Baht rate and as long as that keeps like it is....... most will stay away or cut their trip short and move elsewhere. 

Well said.  And USD has also nosedived.  Trade wars have helped Vietnam economy—hurt Thai economy.  Why?  Because Thai government has chosen to align itself with the wrong side.  Hint: starts with a “C” and ends with an “A”, and it ain’t California...

[sambum]

 

"He predicted that tourist revenues for 2020 would reach 3.7 billion baht with a 10% growth."

 

"The optimism is based on hopes and prayers rather than any of the ‘problems’ actually being fixed."

 

Just about sums it up as a typical TAT statement

 

[thaichina]

5 minutes ago, Traubert said:

Seeing as no-one believes TAT, how about UNTWO? Or are the United Nations liars and incompetents too?

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericrosen/2018/09/06/new-rankings-of-the-worlds-fastest-growing-tourism-destinations/#f74674957eae

 

As I'm fairly sure that no-one (or very few to be fair to the open minded on here) will open this link because they might have to revise their opinions and feel a bit put out (i.e. lose face, a much derided Thai characteristic here on TV), here's a few figures from the UN.

 

The Chinese tourist spend in 2018 was 19.8% of the worlds total tourist spend, $258bn. Zero dollar tourists eh? Cah! A mere quarter of a trillion dollars. Add together spends from American, British, Australian and Canadian tourists (i.e. English speaking nations) and together they pip the Chinese by $14.1bn.

 

However, UNTWO found that 4/5 or 80% of tourists travel within their own region, so it's fair to say that the Chinese lumped a lot of cash into the Asian tourist economies and the English speakers didn't. More than half of the worlds tourist revenue was spent in Europe.

 

Vietnam, the new Mecca for the visa dodger, showed a year on year inbound tourist increase of 29.1% but it started from a low number compared to Thailand and anyway, bearing in mind the above, the increase was mainly Chinese anyway. Thailand ranks tenth in the world overall visitor arrivals with 34.5m. China is fourth with 60.7m. France is still top. 86.9m.

 

So why isn't Thailand begging the whiteys to come more? Well according to the UN, they don't spend enough money, or visit often enough.

I have lived in China many years, and I can say that mainly because of culture, most of them will spend more money than white people while on Holiday. Also the cost in China for ( good ) restaurants etc is very high, so they will find the food really cheap when western people will think it s expensive. And they will mostly spend money on shopping and food, no drinks, girls, bars etc. It s something people who only see the chinese people come out the bus and queue ( looadly ...) for tourist attractions don t see, and still stay in an old stereotype of poor chinese people, but they are really wealthy, much more than western people may think.

[Bastos60]

10 hours ago, observer90210 said:

Hand out 40 THB for 1 US $ from tomorrow onwards .....and by the end of the week, guarantee all the taxi cheats will have their cabs full of tourists !....and be more nice and polite with all the decent visitors and do not only bootlick one specific type of tourists....immigration boys also need to chill down, be nicer and stop harassing with their redtape...and then maybe..?

45 bath\€ and many euros would start travelling towards thailand again. At 33-34 Baht it isn't sustainable to travel to Thailand on any frequency and that is just what Pattaya has had in large numbers, frequent return business. 

And also the artificial inflation in the beer bars and agogo's is turning off many young and middle aged men who once came for the wonderfull attitude of the girls and the very modest cost of room accomodation and food. 

At the moment the flights to bangkok are dirt cheap, but if they go back to prices like they were 10 years ago, tourism would get hit even harder, then all hopes for thailand lies indeed with Indian, chinese and russian travellers (including arab).

[GeorgeCross]

1 hour ago, orchidfan said:

Two comments;

Immigration. ..all trips back to Australia with my Thai wife over the past 2 decades we have been greeted by cheery, smiling IOs with a little banter of welcome to (or back to) Australia ...how was your flight, have a nice stay etc.

NEVER here in the LOS.

 

Secondly

Tourists : I recall the days in Phuket,  Samui etc with thousands of European tourists ..young and old sunning themselves on the beaches soaking up the warm tropical weather AND getting the mandatory sun tan.

Can't see the Chinese mainlanders replicating or enjoying that

 

haha it seems like the first one has been going on forever.. i remember doing a visa run about 10 years ago on a xmas eve of all days at sadao border. grumpy ass thai IO signed me out without even looking up from my passport and saying nothing. i walked over to the malay border where a young female IO in niqab said "going back to thailand?" as she stamped me in, "yes" i said, to which she replied with a smile "Have a Happy Christmas!" - i left absolutely beaming, what a nice thing to say from a young muslim girl ????

 

5 minutes later another grumpy IO grilled me at the border then let me back in begrudgingly.. after i paid my 20 baht "late fee" of course

 

welcome to thailand.

 

some things never change.

 

 

[madmen]

6 minutes ago, Andy Rawai said:

I'm in Koh Samui, I have been here many times but never have I seen a lack of tourists like now. Resort I'm in is running at 10% capacity. Sad

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
 

Dont be sad , enjoy . The peak of low season is the best time to be in Thailand and duh of course your resort is empty. Post back again in high season lol

[madmitch]

11 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Thailand still seems fashionable with young western females - some on their gap year. The risk is too high for many parents who I'm sure do their best to prevent their daughters travelling to Thailand - I know I would.

I think you'll find the backpack market is well down. They didn't help matters by trying to sanitise Khao San Road but in general it's the cost and the fact that Thailand has long lost its appeal as an "exotic" destination now seen a mainstream tourism place where their parents have probably been on holiday. Other places in Asia and South America, especially Colombia, are now the backpackers' favourites.

 

My famiily run a guesthouse and can only reiterate what's been said above; it's the worst low season we've experienced with many nights completely empty. The past few years we've had good trade from tour guides for the Chinese groups. That market has all but disappeared. This time last year we were getting bookings for the high season most days; at the moment it's more like one a week, despite good ratings on Booking.com and Tripadvisor. It is not looking good and we'll be discounting if things don't look like picking up soon; the problem is so will everyone else! That won't attract new tourists, simply bring less baht into the economy.

[marcusarelus]

34 minutes ago, Bangkokazy said:

Thailand today

I was told backpacker would not be coming anymore? 

[madmen]

3 minutes ago, madmitch said:

I think you'll find the backpack market is well down. They didn't help matters by trying to sanitise Khao San Road

utter rubbish anecdotal nonsense. This pic is stamped 2019 

 

[tingtongtourist]

Most normal tourist who come and go on a shortstay are not aware of:

 

foriegner deaths, Immigration crackdown, entertainment crackdown, tourist visa crackdown, air B&B crackdown, higher fines for traffic offence..on and on.

 

many of my normal friends back home who could be potential Thailand tourist not even know their exchange rate to Baht is way down..

thats how much they are bothered to study any Thai issues before a holiday.

 

probably the more simple explanation is household death is sky high in many countries. 

and when that happens people holiday in their own country or closer.

simple!

 

a lot of farang here must be really infected with this government issued virus of the thinking 

"Thailand is the worlds dream destination"

 

ask any Thai..they will tell you!

[ChipButty]

6 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I was told backpacker would not be coming anymore? 

Did not some minister say they dont want Backpackers no more?

[sambum]

47 minutes ago, Andy Rawai said:

 

 

53 minutes ago, Traubert said:

Seeing as no-one believes TAT, how about UNTWO? Or are the United Nations liars and incompetents too?

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericrosen/2018/09/06/new-rankings-of-the-worlds-fastest-growing-tourism-destinations/#f74674957eae

 

As I'm fairly sure that no-one (or very few to be fair to the open minded on here) will open this link because they might have to revise their opinions and feel a bit put out (i.e. lose face, a much derided Thai characteristic here on TV), here's a few figures from the UN.

 

The Chinese tourist spend in 2018 was 19.8% of the worlds total tourist spend, $258bn. Zero dollar tourists eh? Cah! A mere quarter of a trillion dollars. Add together spends from American, British, Australian and Canadian tourists (i.e. English speaking nations) and together they pip the Chinese by $14.1bn.

 

However, UNTWO found that 4/5 or 80% of tourists travel within their own region, so it's fair to say that the Chinese lumped a lot of cash into the Asian tourist economies and the English speakers didn't. More than half of the worlds tourist revenue was spent in Europe.

 

Vietnam, the new Mecca for the visa dodger, showed a year on year inbound tourist increase of 29.1% but it started from a low number compared to Thailand and anyway, bearing in mind the above, the increase was mainly Chinese anyway. Thailand ranks tenth in the world overall visitor arrivals with 34.5m. China is fourth with 60.7m. France is still top. 86.9m.

 

So why isn't Thailand begging the whiteys to come more? Well according to the UN, they don't spend enough money, or visit often enough.

The "whitey" ex pats who live here spend on average about half a million baht a year (500,000 baht), and they still want rid of them - appears that they are targeting the "super rich"who will spend millions, and stay in the 5* Plus hotels and resorts - as to what will happen to the middle to lower end tourism - "Good Morning Vietnam" etc etc etc!!!

 

"So why isn't Thailand begging the whiteys to come more? Well according to the UN, they don't spend enough money, or visit often enough."

 

"Whiteys" don't have the money to spend IN THAILAND  because of the abysmal exchange rate, which is probably why more is being spent on European holidays (40% of International Tourism) and as far as Asia and the Pacific is concerned (as you have already pointed out) Vietnam is up 29%)

 

As far as visiting often enough is concerned, firstly, most working "whiteys" only get a few weeks holiday annually, and consequently can only have one "long" (2 -3 weeks) holiday a year, and would prefer to spend that where they get better value for money, and are more appreciated!

 

 

[ChipButty]

12 minutes ago, madmitch said:

I think you'll find the backpack market is well down. They didn't help matters by trying to sanitise Khao San Road but in general it's the cost and the fact that Thailand has long lost its appeal as an "exotic" destination now seen a mainstream tourism place where their parents have probably been on holiday. Other places in Asia and South America, especially Colombia, are now the backpackers' favourites.

 

My famiily run a guesthouse and can only reiterate what's been said above; it's the worst low season we've experienced with many nights completely empty. The past few years we've had good trade from tour guides for the Chinese groups. That market has all but disappeared. This time last year we were getting bookings for the high season most days; at the moment it's more like one a week, despite good ratings on Booking.com and Tripadvisor. It is not looking good and we'll be discounting if things don't look like picking up soon; the problem is so will everyone else! That won't attract new tourists, simply bring less baht into the economy.

Booking.com always recommending you drop your prices, dont see them drop their commission rates 15% to 18%

[Traubert]

21 minutes ago, Isaan sailor said:

Well said.  And USD has also nosedived.  Trade wars have helped Vietnam economy—hurt Thai economy.  Why?  Because Thai government has chosen to align itself with the wrong side.  Hint: starts with a “C” and ends with an “A”, and it ain’t California...

Cuba?

[ChipButty]

1 minute ago, Traubert said:

Cuba?

No there's a good place for holiday cheap cigars 

[marcusarelus]

37 minutes ago, chrisandsu said:

Nepotism is alive and kicking . 

I think it's hiring people who have undergone the same rigorous standard of education as you have and not purchased degrees at phony colleges.  

[Psychic]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

But a perfect storm has now beset Thai tourism – emerging nearby tourist markets, a high baht, the US-China trade wars and ongoing fallout from the Phuket Boat Tragedy.

 

I think some of these factors have to be taken into account. But, it is a simplistic explanation, and one that has not been formulated with much in the way of introspection, reflection, and contemplation. Nor are the authorities taking much responsibilities for the extreme sabotage to the industry that they have committed. 

 

At a minimum:

 

the unwillingness to tackle the scams, and corruption in general.

the traffic and public safety issues.

the lack of a competent and effective police force, that foreigners can count on, when they need them.

the environmental issues, and so many other causes, are all having an impact on tourism.

the inept military government, who nobody likes, and most people despise.

haphazard and xenophobic immigration policy, meant to deter tourism, and ex-pats, rather than encourage them. 

racist ranting from the government, often directed at tourists and ex-pats and a nonsensical nationalistic agenda, that is pure politics.

 

The decision to turn away from Western tourism, and focus almost exclusively on Chinese and Indian tourism was a mistake of historically monumental proportions. The TAT is barely making any effort to lure Westerners. And in my opinion they are the big spenders. I read surveys about the average Chinese tourists, being at the top of the list of big spenders. But, this is average. And the big spending Chinese do not come to Thailand for a dozen different reasons. The wife wants to buy a luxury handbag. The same Gucci bag that she likes is $3,500 in Singapore, London, New York, Paris, Hong Kong, or Dubai. In Bangkok that bag sells for $9,000.

 

At a five star hotel, this same wealthy Chinese couple want a great bottle of wine. They see a good vintage of Domaine Coche-Dury Monthelie, which would sell for about $500 retail, at a five star in any of the above cities for $1,000 on the list. The same bottle, if it was available (highly unlikely) in Bangkok, would be 100,000 baht, or more. And if it was available would the hotel have a sommelier who was qualified and fluent enough, to explain the wine, and the various vintages available? I have not found that in the past here. I have been to high end restaurants where they knew nothing about the expensive wines on the list! Nothing! The lack of expertise here is a big factor in discouraging wealthy tourists who come here, from returning ever again.

 

Most wealthy people tend to be smart with their money. They simply will not pay stupid money for stuff. The ultra rich are different. But, no ultra rich people would even consider Thailand as a destination, unless they had work here. The luxury taxes have been discouraging high end tourism here for decades. It is policy that is so dumb, so shortsighted, so non-visionary, and it badly hurts the economy. If wine duty was 100%, you would have a thriving wine industry here, five to ten times the size of the current industry. So the state income would be made up on volume, and hundreds of thousands of jobs would be generated. Instead the protection of a few local wineries continues, due to some politicians passing the anti import wine bill years ago, and accepting the payoffs that came with that braindead decision. 

 

Sure, the neighboring countries are benefitting from all of the mistakes Thailand is making. But, they are also trying much harder, and are far smarter with their policies. They deserve the gains. And yes, the TAT is a disaster. They are incompetent beyond the furthest reaches of one's imagination. And being under the umbrella of the sports ministry? Are you kidding me? For an industry that used to generate up to 20% of the nation's GDP? A minster in charge of sports and tourism? Is that a joke? At a minimum, it leads one to believe that tourism is not taken seriously. Then again, this is not a serious administration, on any level. At least not a seriously competent one. 

 

These are simply more examples of brain dead leaders, who have no vision, and are NOT leading the nation forward, are not helping the nation to progress, and are not benefitting the people of Thailand.

 

Major changes need to be made, if Thailand wants to continue to enjoy the cash cow of tourism. Travelers these days simply have too many choices. Creativity is required. Progress needs to be made. Thailand cannot continue to be one of the least progressive nations on earth, and expect foreigners to tolerate that degree of ignorance. These seeds were planted over a decade ago. The hapless army has accelerated the process dramatically. 

Exactly right for the top end of the market.

For the "middle" end I had a friend who came here for partying/golf etc.

Did that for 6 years.

Hasn't been here for 2.

The 200-300K he would spend just doesn't go as far.

Add in the fact that he is getting 20% less in the exchange rate.

He has multiple locations to go now in the winter that offer much the same as Thailand at a significant price discount.

On the "low" end where I fell when I came here. I could go out and get a couple of beers and a (Thai) meal for not much more than 100 baht.

The price of beer has tripled in the last 10 years.

Go to an ocean front low end restaurant and get a western meal and a couple of glasses of what passes for cheap wine here and you are at 500B plus.

With the exchange that is equivalent to the price at home.

The "farang" tax on things like alcohol may have seemed like a good idea to the geniuses who think the well would never run dry but I think this is backfiring badly.

I have not seen a single box of the crappy boxed wine in a cart at Makro for months now.

And yesterday was a first. They were discounting the price of imported beer.

The same can of English stout I was buying when I went back Canada for just around 50B sells at Makro for 169B.

Restaurants have a habit of doubling retail now so I'd assume that would be 340B.

$15 for a rather ordinary beer...no thanks.

The restaurant/bars around here are empty.

I have been told by multiple owners/employees high season was the worst anyone can remember last year. I don't care what the official propaganda says. People I know simply shut down permanently. The money they brought in during high season couldn't sustain them during low season.

I don't see this improving anytime soon.

As a capper. I would simply not advise people to consider Thailand as a retirement destination anymore.

Maybe that suits the powers to be just fine. But a thriving expat community not only spends their own dollars, they are a reason for friends or family to come vacation.

The group of Swedes/Norwegians I hang around in winter is getting smaller every year and there has been virtually no new people joining them in the last few years.

So even the nonresident snow bird types are in the decline.

Maybe the hope for the future lies in Asian visitors. But they will also assess the costs and look elsewhere if it looks significantly cheaper.

Weakening of the baht would help but I think that by the time that happens there will be tourist bases set up in other countries that will attract those types who habitually return to the same place every year.

 

 

[madmen]

8 minutes ago, sambum said:

 

The "whitey" ex pats who live here spend on average about half a million baht a year (500,000 baht), and they still want rid of them - appears that they are targeting the "super rich"who will spend millions, and stay in the 5* Plus hotels and resorts - as to what will happen to the middle to lower end tourism - "Good Morning Vietnam" etc etc etc!!!

White boys spending 1300 baht per day INCLUDING rent money. Very little being spent after rent  and even the chineses are forking out way more than that. Cheap charlie Expats are a dying breed as the world tightens visa restrictions to keep them out!

[teav]

6 hours ago, Snowyrivers said:

Apart from all the nay sayers, Thailand is a great place but not in the rainy season! How stupid do you think the modern educated traveller is? They know half the restaurants are closed, Ko Samui is like its shut shop, the girls in Pattaya and Patong have taken holidays back home in Isan.

They will be back in the high season maybe a little wiser and maybe a fewer number but TAT needs to clean up its act now. Customs clearance times, rip offs with Taxis etc etc.

 

The food, the culture, the magnificent natural attractions and the lifestyle are what tourists want not the bars and girls as much as they were in the past!

 

Time for Thailand to be active in the tourism race or loose the race to Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar or the pacific Islands!

 

[ChipButty]

7 minutes ago, madmen said:

White boys spending 1300 baht per day INCLUDING rent money. Very little being spent after rent  and even the chineses are forking out way more than that. Cheap charlie Expats are a dying breed as the world tightens visa restrictions to keep them out!

Them white boys are over spending I can live on less than 500 baht per day and thats including beer

[Rimmer]

A couple of posts discussing the specifics of prostitution have been removed

[aspenbkk]

11 hours ago, LongTang said:

The storm is already here and the boat is SINKING !

 

 

Yes You are Right We All Know its Sunk And they Keep Saying Next Month Will Maybe Be Better There is Not Any Next Month This is How it Is and has been over the last year Accept it .

[Traubert]

20 minutes ago, sambum said:

 

The "whitey" ex pats who live here spend on average about half a million baht a year (500,000 baht), and they still want rid of them

I'd like to see some peer reviewed evidence to that effect. That's a daily spend of Bht1369, By no means large potatoes. When the same figure was pinned on a Chinese tourist, you'd hear the howls in the queue in HMC Immigration Office.

[DrTuner]

57 minutes ago, Traubert said:

The Chinese tourist spend in 2018 was 19.8% of the worlds total tourist spend, $258bn.

And in which countries was it spent in? 

 

And.. where did UN get their data from? I'm guessing it's ... TAT. 

[teav]

4 hours ago, Winky Wilson said:

Thai immigration’s message was for foreigners and retirees to go home or somewhere else, we don’t want you here. This along with currency manipulation, dangerous air pollution, and corruption really setup a black hole for the kingdom. 

what are you talking about.