Thai marriage affecting pension

[DUNROAMIN]

Hi, I would like to know if there are any Ozzies out there that have had dealings with DVA or Centre link regarding being married to a Thai lady. Recently received a "Statement of Circumstances" form from DVA. Basically asking are there any changes to my circumstances living in Thailand, eg , assets, married, de facto. My current status with DVA is single, divorced. I am now married living with my Thai lady. My Thai wife is 50 and does not work.

Has any body had any experience with this matter, as I am concerned if I fill this form out declaring my marriage I am going to have my pension reduced substantially.

I know that DVA des not recognize a non Australian resident as a spouse for payments from DVA or Centre Link, also no payment of pension on my death.

Any info would be appreciated.

[AlexRRR]

From my understanding sooner or later they "who ever in AU" are informed, wasnt a smart move to get married, you surly can reply negative and of course if they catch you out eventualy they will be looking for back pay...

 

Might be in your best intrests to divorce, though there has been a lot written about this topic in the past, the guy did argue his case and eventualy his pension was restored, do you want to risk the stress and the hoops your going to need to jump through?

[giddyup]

Not sure if DVA will reduce your pension, but I know Centrelink does.

[wombat]

get divorced very quickly or you have lost 50% and Centrelink will be looking for repayment.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by wombat

[oscarsmum]

Pls ring DVA or Centrelink (whichever pays your pension) and ask them what outcomes to expect. My information is that marriage is no reason to reduce your pension unless your partner produces income (rental or any other income) or her assets exceed Australia's asset ceiling  for your pension category or they are presently receiving a single pension from Australia or their home country. Don't worry please. Speak to the source. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by oscarsmum
Additional info

[GalaxyMan]

2 hours ago, giddyup said:

Not sure if DVA will reduce your pension, but I know Centrelink does.

Holland's the same. My pension will be ~€50 less if I tell them that I am married. Since I can't imagine that they'd actually bother to check or indeed have any way of checking, I'm going to fudge that particular detail when I become eligible next year.

[Emdog]

Can anyone explain to me the respective government's reason a pension would be reduced if one were married? Beyond "you don't matter as an expat and we'll do whatever we wish"

[giddyup]

Just now, Emdog said:

Can anyone explain to me the respective government's reason a pension would be reduced if one were married? Beyond "you don't matter as an expat and we'll do whatever we wish"

Because they assess the wife as being able to earn an income and contribute to the household.

[Lacessit]

If Centrelink is informed of your married status, your age pension will drop to the married rate - about $200 a fortnight less. It's why I have explained to my Thai GF we are not getting married, even though we would both like to.\

I don't know what the situation is with a DVA pension. Try asking them.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, Emdog said:

Can anyone explain to me the respective government's reason a pension would be reduced if one were married? Beyond "you don't matter as an expat and we'll do whatever we wish"

Their reason is two can live cheaper than one, because overheads such as rent are shared. Being an expat is only relevant in terms of being married to someone who is not an Australian citizen. Same treatment irrespective of whether your foreign wife is in Australia or outside it.

[orchidfan]

I receive a pension through Australian CSS (now renamed CSC...."Commonwealth Superannuation Corporation "),  BUT only paid into an Australian bank account in my name.

 

My Thai wife, as my legal spouse, IS entitled to receive 67% of this pension when I die. So long as she is co.firmed as my legal spouse.

 

 

However we MUST open an Aust bank account in her name and get her a Tax File Number. Also notarized copies of our Thai marriage  certificate, her Thai passport and ID.etc

 

Once the css governors review these she will receive her full entitlement,  albeit into her Australian bank.

 

I understand that CSC has taken over admin of military pensions as well. Ie."MilitarySuper".

[Emdog]

4 minutes ago, orchidfan said:

I receive a pension through Australian CSS (now renamed CSC...."Commonwealth Superannuation Corporation "),  BUT only paid into an Australian bank account in my name.

 

My Thai wife, as my legal spouse, IS entitled to receive 67% of this pension when I die. So long as she is co.firmed as my legal spouse.

 

 

However we MUST open an Aust bank account in her name and get her a Tax File Number. Also notarized copies of our Thai marriage  certificate, her Thai passport and ID.etc

 

Once the css governors review these she will receive her full entitlement,  albeit into her Australian bank.

 

I understand that CSC has taken over admin of military pensions as well. Ie."MilitarySuper".

Puts you ahead of USA. My Thai wife will get nothing from my Social Security when I die. If we lived in USA for 9 yrs (I think) she could be eligible, Not worth the grief IMO of living there

[norbra]

Your pension would not be reduced if your wife "were to go home to help her family" or similar situation

[RJRS1301]

25 minutes ago, Emdog said:

Can anyone explain to me the respective government's reason a pension would be reduced if one were married? Beyond "you don't matter as an expat and we'll do whatever we wish"

Different rates for married and single benefits and assets, whether in Oz or not,

 

[TigerandDog]

I have a friend living here on a marriage visa. He has actually enquired of Centrelink re his pension on the basis of "if he were to marry a Thai or live in a defacto relationship".  The response was as long as centrelink are NOT advised of the situation they will not adjust his pension to the couple rate, viz. for him approx. AUD $200 less per fortnight, even though she is not working or earning an income of any kind. SO OP the ball is in your court as to how to act on this one.

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

I have a friend living here on a marriage visa. He has actually enquired of Centrelink re his pension on the basis of "if he were to marry a Thai or live in a defacto relationship".  The response was as long as centrelink are NOT advised of the situation they will not adjust his pension to the couple rate, viz. for him approx. AUD $200 less per fortnight, even though she is not working or earning an income of any kind. SO OP the ball is in your court as to how to act on this one.

Failure to advise Centrelink of your married status would be probably be considered as fraud. Unlikely, but if they did find out, you would probably be liable to repay all overpayments.

[Stevemercer]

As far as the old age pension is concerned, you will receive less if you declare your marriage.

 

As an example, let's say your single pension is $500 per week. You then get married and the married pension is $750 per week (two can live cheaper than one). However, your Thai wife, not being an Australian resident, does not qualify for an Australian pension. Nevertheless, Centrelink assumes that she is bringing some benefit to the marriage.

 

You new married pension is therefore half of $750, or $375.

[emptypockets]

1 hour ago, Emdog said:

Can anyone explain to me the respective government's reason a pension would be reduced if one were married? Beyond "you don't matter as an expat and we'll do whatever we wish"

Nothing to do with being an expat. Oz residents are treated the same way.

[PlastikbinLina]

On 7/26/2019 at 9:13 PM, AlexRRR said:

From my understanding sooner or later they "who ever in AU" are informed, wasnt a smart move to get married, you surly can reply negative and of course if they catch you out eventualy they will be looking for back pay...

 

Might be in your best intrests to divorce, though there has been a lot written about this topic in the past, the guy did argue his case and eventualy his pension was restored, do you want to risk the stress and the hoops your going to need to jump through?

Never ever tell Centrelink you have a partner or that you are married. Not even a civil law partner. They will immediately deduct about $100 a fortnight from your pension or even more. Be careful too you don't slip up when asked quietly by an wilfare officer of you have a partner because as innocuos as it sounds it isn't. They'll pounce on you as quick as lightning.  An unfair aspect of this is the Social Welfare Department must consider a foreign woman can earn a wage equivalent to an Australian wife or partner or indeed if even if she may not be employed or employable.

Perhaps it is my cynicism that believes welfare front desk officers are just plain jealous of someone and some place is better off than they are.

[emptypockets]

 

$843.60 single $635.90 each if married. If only one person is eligible then he/she gets $635.90 a reduction of $207.70.

Very tempting to risk it but if you get caught (and you will eventually) look forward to paying it all back, after you get out of prison.

Edited July 28, 2019 by emptypockets

[emptypockets]

10 minutes ago, PlastikbinLina said:

Never ever tell Centrelink you have a partner or that you are married. Not even a civil law partner. They will immediately deduct about $100 a fortnight from your pension or even more. Be careful too you don't slip up when asked quietly by an wilfare officer of you have a partner because as innocuos as it sounds it isn't. They'll pounce on you as quick as lightning.  An unfair aspect of this is the Social Welfare Department must consider a foreign woman can earn a wage equivalent to an Australian wife or partner or indeed if even if she may not be employed or employable.

Perhaps it is my cynicism that believes welfare front desk officers are just plain jealous of someone and some place is better off than they are.

Perhaps the rate should be reduced to match the cost of living wherever the retiree chooses to reside? Wouldn't that be a fair system?

[Farang99]

1 hour ago, GalaxyMan said:

Holland's the same. My pension will be ~€50 less if I tell them that I am married. Since I can't imagine that they'd actually bother to check or indeed have any way of checking, I'm going to fudge that particular detail when I become eligible next year.

I wonder what the logic might be to justify reducing a pension on marriage? In the UK we used to get extra tax relief on marriage, but that has now been abandoned

[maxcorrigan]

UK the same i get £69 a week marriage allowance which will end next April 2020 for everyone in the UK or abroad as far as i know, and no reasons given that i'm aware of!

[RJRS1301]

4 minutes ago, Farang99 said:

I wonder what the logic might be to justify reducing a pension on marriage? In the UK we used to get extra tax relief on marriage, but that has now been abandoned

AS someone said previously "less expensive with two people sharing the costs", than a single person (utilities rates etc) 

 

[RJRS1301]

I guess also we have more people in the world now over the age of 65 years than ever before.

Men now living longer than before, when pensions came in, it was envisaged that most would die within 10 years of retirement, now they are living about 15-20 years after retirement. 

More needing financial support for longer, so have to look at rationalising costs of pension payments

Also the tax base is dropping as people spend more time in education, work on contracts, more time between work contracts, so less taxes.

 

[totally thaied up]

delete

Edited July 28, 2019 by totally thaied up

[totally thaied up]

51 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

AS someone said previously "less expensive with two people sharing the costs", than a single person (utilities rates etc) 

 

 

Yes, I was quoted this as well. I tried under Section 25 to get my full pension as my wife makes no money, but I have more then $5,000 in an Australian bank, and I am not under a hardship clause.

 

They asked for my wifes Thai Photo ID card (they knew about her ID card), and I had to give them a copy of that. The last time I was in Australia, my wife while we were at Centrelink was asked for her National ID to put on my record as well again. I will be applying for PR for my wife, hence the reason why we married. If you plan on staying in Thailand forever, you need not to marry. There would-be  little advantage to you in this regard apart from the 400K Marriage Extension. 

[totally thaied up]

3 hours ago, oscarsmum said:

Pls ring DVA or Centrelink (whichever pays your pension) and ask them what outcomes to expect. My information is that marriage is no reason to reduce your pension unless your partner produces income (rental or any other income) or her assets exceed Australia's asset ceiling  for your pension category or they are presently receiving a single pension from Australia or their home country. Don't worry please. Speak to the source. 

This is incorrect. I am affected by such rulings and I know personally if under Centrelink.

 

Once you marry, under Centrelink rules, you will lose about $150-190 per fortnight off your pensions. It does not matter who you are. If you are married, you legally need to tell Centrelink within 48 hours, or otherwise, you are defrauding the Commonwealth. This is what I was advised by Centrelink before I got married. If she is not an Australian citizen, she will also gain no benefits for you to be able to offset the loss.

 

I lose about $160 per fortnight being married to my partner. If you are caught, you will have to repay the money back and in most cases, your pension is cut drastically until the amount is repaid. Better off being honest now and taking the loss or divorcing if you want to keep the money. It is up to you if you want to tell but with data matching these days, looking at social media profiles or anything else, getting caught out is pretty easy.

 

I get almost every two years a letter from them asking me if my circumstances change, but I am under a portability pension for a DSP, so I am monitored extra careful. Centrelink to be has always been helpful and never caused me any problems, but I have always been upfront with them and have nothing to hide. 

 

If your upfront, it is pretty easy. If your not, I really think you are playing with fire.

[StevieAus]

57 minutes ago, Farang99 said:

I wonder what the logic might be to justify reducing a pension on marriage? In the UK we used to get extra tax relief on marriage, but that has now been abandoned

It’s because I think if wife is not of retirement age she  could be expected to work.

Apart from the reason of course of trying to reduce costs and payments.

At least in the UK as seems to apply in most Western countries including the US, if you have worked most or all of your life you are entitled to receive a pension.

That is not the case in Australia where the pension is means tested and the assets level continues to be lowered excluding people who have worked and paid taxes all their life.

[mosan]

Deleted

Edited July 28, 2019 by mosan