(not) paying tax in Thailand

[dimitriv]

Quote: In Thailand, the tax year is the same as the calendar year - 1 January through to 31 December. You're considered a resident for tax purposes if you live in Thailand for 180 days or more on aggregate over the year.

 

I understand that you can also be a tax resident when you are staying here on a tourist visum.

 

Quote: Thai residents are also taxed on foreign-source income, but only if the income is brought into Thailand in the year derived (repatriation in later years is exempt from personal income tax).  For example, when a Thai tax resident earns foreign income in 2015 and does not transfer the funds to Thailand until 2016, they are not liable to pay personal income tax on that portion of the income. They would have to pay tax only if the amount was transferred to Thailand in the same year it was received – 2015.

 

If I understand everything correctly...  I have a company in my home country. When I leave the money I make on a bank account in my home country I will not pay income tax. Also, if I leave the money I made on a bank account in my home country for a year and transfer it to Thailand the next year I also don't have to pay income tax.

 

So I can decide myself if I want to pay tax, or not ?  It seems to be very attractive to officially leave my home country and stay in Thailand for 6+ months a year. 

 

[LivinLOS]

First it is correct the visa class with which you stay here is irrelevant for the tax obligations. 

You are also correct if the money has already been disbursed from your company in your home country, to yourself already.. Then it is your savings, and the following calendar year you can import it to Thailand tax free. This is a law which of course benefits wealthy thais with offshore income / investments and savings accounts. Thailand does not tax worldwide income only domestic sourced income and income remitted into the kingdom in the year it is earned. 

Your issues may be harder to clear up in your home country, for my situation I have to be very careful of max days per year (its much less than 182, initially IIRC it was 16, now its under 90) and ensuring your income there is not taxed at source. How that income is achieved changes a lot of variables there. 

Its not easy to find good specialist tax advice for cross border / multi jurisdiction.. From my experience most tax advisors for the common man struggle to work outside of the single jurisdiction mindset and the bigger tax advisors who do handle cross border are priced for the corporate market and type of accounts.

[cleopatra2]

Any DTA in force will take precedence over domestic tax law

[Ddbanksy]

Where am I paying tax.

Married 20yrs and living in Thailand since 2007(firstly on TV's now non O multi entry)

Invoice from Singapore Pte Ltd Office,IBAN bank transfer to my Thailand Bangkok Bank account 

i.e. Invoice=$1,920 and banked THB 31,875

I.e. Invoice=$7,345 and banked THB 134,275

[watcharacters]

11 minutes ago, Ddbanksy said:

Where am I paying tax.

Married 20yrs and living in Thailand since 2007(firstly on TV's now non O multi entry)

Invoice from Singapore Pte Ltd Office,IBAN bank transfer to my Thailand Bangkok Bank account 

i.e. Invoice=$1,920 and banked THB 31,875

I.e. Invoice=$7,345 and banked THB 134,275

 

Please provide an explanation for those of us who don't quite follow your post.

 

TIA

[Ddbanksy]

I believe Singapore and Thailand Goverments have a tax treaty,that you only pay tax once.
So..living in Thailand and getting paid in SGD,
Who am I paying tax to? At payment Country or Receiving Country? and at what rate? or who to contact to find out?
Simple enough?

 
Please provide an explanation for those of us who don't quite follow your post.
 
TIA

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[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, Ddbanksy said:

I believe Singapore and Thailand Goverments have a tax treaty,that you only pay tax once.
So..living in Thailand and getting paid in SGD,
Who am I paying tax to? At payment Country or Receiving Country? and at what rate? or who to contact to find out?
Simple enough?

 

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It will depend upon what the treaty specifies.

DTA only eliminate double taxation on the same income. It is possible to pay tax in both jurisdictions but recieve a credit from one state to offset tax in the other.

 

The source of your income plays an impprtant role in determining the tax status.

[Ddbanksy]

It will depend upon what the treaty specifies.
DTA only eliminate double taxation on the same income. It is possible to pay tax in both jurisdictions but recieve a credit from one state to offset tax in the other.
 
The source of your income plays an impprtant role in determining the tax status.

The source is Singapore dollar's

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[cleopatra2]

9 hours ago, Ddbanksy said:

The source is Singapore dollar's

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Apologies the source means the type of income . Employment , dividends pension etc , not the currency .

[Ddbanksy]

Apologies the source means the type of income . Employment , dividends pension etc , not the currency .

Employment,1 year Contract basis,Freelance Oil/Gas/Petrochemical

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[cleopatra2]

2 hours ago, Ddbanksy said:

Employment,1 year Contract basis,Freelance Oil/Gas/Petrochemical

Sent from my SM-N950F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

If using the Singapore DTA 

The first step is to determine your residency status according to Article 4 of the treaty

 

 

[sencelebi]

If you pay tax on your overseas income then you dont pay tax in Thailand. No double taxation. Or you can transfer money to your Thailand bank account and make sure you note on your transfer as a "LOAN"

There is no payback time limit on LOAN to yourself. That's what I do.

[LivinLOS]

On 7/27/2019 at 4:21 AM, cleopatra2 said:

Any DTA in force will take precedence over domestic tax law

It seems the vast majority of posters do not understand how DTA agreements work. 

A DTA does not exempt you from (initially) paying taxes twice, it enables you to claim back, any taxes that are paid twice, once you submit a tax return in both jurisdictions. You then claim back the undue tax in the country you are not resident in (or are not domestically sourced.. it gets complex). 

DTA agreements enable you to reclaim double taxation, after proof of 2 conflicting tax returns, from the jurisdiction you are not tax resident in. 

[Ddbanksy]

Thanks for the info,but none the wiser.

I work S.E.Asia,99.9% of the time.

To Put it simply:

 Per Contract,i book my hours to Singapore Company,they send me an Invoice for the full amount in SGD plus my out of pocket expenses,when the job is completed and signed off by the Client.

 They then send to me by IBAN Transfer.

Within 30 days or so later i receive money(THB) in my BKK Bank account,which is a lot less than the exchange rate.

 So,Tax,money, is being taken by someone,somewhere

i.e.  15/6/2019 to 19/6/2019 Invoice(Full amount,Hrs plus expenses) for $SGD 1,920.

      24/7/2019 received BKK Bank THB 31,875

      So where as about 12,000thb gone?? given the exchange rate 0.043...ish 

     SG Tax? THAI Tax? BKK Bank? Transfer? Exchange rate? or all 5?

 I have been on a yearly Signed SG Contract,Freelance to the Company since leaving UK in 2007,and living in Thailand,using a non O ME Visa,based on Marriage.

 (20 yrs wedding anniversary yesterday)

 

[cleopatra2]

If i understsnd correctly

You are not a resident of Singapore ? ( Under the tax laws ) 

 I have not looked at Singapores laws to determine your status

 

Your income is derived from Singapore

 

Are you a resident of thailand under thai tax laws

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, Ddbanksy said:

Thanks for the info,but none the wiser.

I work S.E.Asia,99.9% of the time.

To Put it simply:

 Per Contract,i book my hours to Singapore Company,they send me an Invoice for the full amount in SGD plus my out of pocket expenses,when the job is completed and signed off by the Client.

 They then send to me by IBAN Transfer.

Within 30 days or so later i receive money(THB) in my BKK Bank account,which is a lot less than the exchange rate.

 So,Tax,money, is being taken by someone,somewhere

i.e.  15/6/2019 to 19/6/2019 Invoice(Full amount,Hrs plus expenses) for $SGD 1,920.

      24/7/2019 received BKK Bank THB 31,875

      So where as about 12,000thb gone?? given the exchange rate 0.043...ish 

     SG Tax? THAI Tax? BKK Bank? Transfer? Exchange rate? or all 5?

 I have been on a yearly Signed SG Contract,Freelance to the Company since leaving UK in 2007,and living in Thailand,using a non O ME Visa,based on Marriage.

 (20 yrs wedding anniversary yesterday)

 

Apologies i am going to confuse you even more

A quick glance at the Singapore tax guidelines suggest that you are due to pay tax in Singapore. Assuming the employment is categorised as being in Singapore.

To be able to take advantage of Any DTA  in force . The Singapore IRAS require the person to lodge a certificate of tax exemption along with a certificate of residency confirmed by the home state tax authority.

 

Have you filled out a yearly Singapore tax assesment since 2007 when joining the company.

 

 

[jojothai]

You said that the company pay it by IBAN but not to which bank.

Is it to your Thai Bank account.

If that is correct then you will not be using a Singapore Bank.

 

The company employing you should give you a statement of the earnings and any deductions. That will tell you if any tax is being paid.

If I am correct Singapore is very low tax. when I was there it used to be about 8%.

Ask for the earnings and payment statements from the company as only they will be able to tell you if any tax is being paid anywhere. 

 

If the earnings had been paid into a Singapore Bank, (or any other offshore bank)

You should have already received the notice of requirements for the CRS.

On that you would be required to provide your tax residence information or TIN as it is called. It is a mandatory requirement, or you have to explain why you have no TIN.

Otherwise the bank will tell you that they will supply your account information to tax authorities they consider applicable (eg your home address) and you may have restrictions on your account.

However you appear to indicate money is paid into Thailand.

 

From what you are saying, the money is being remitted from the time it is being earned and according to the rules you could be subject to tax. If you hold it in account outside to the next Tax year then you should not be liable to tax in Thailand.

 

The CRS requirements will soon be closing in on people who work in different countries and do not pay tax.

Thailand is not yet a full participant but has confirmed that they will start implementation soon. Its likely to be within a year or two and thai banks will then require the CRS information (with TIN),

You would be advised to figure out how you will deal with this if you are still going to working for some years to come

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by jojothai
had to change to match some other info in original posts

[Tayaout]

Some might benefit of checking nomadcapitalist website and YouTube channel. He help people pay 0% tax legally and he live in SE Asia. I think his company is in Singapore and is not taxable since he is not resident and he is resident of Malaysia. He has several nationality and resigned his American citizenship for tax purposes. He also know about the Thai tax previous year loophole. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Tayaout

[dimitriv]

5 hours ago, Ddbanksy said:

They then send to me by IBAN Transfer.

Within 30 days or so later i receive money(THB) in my BKK Bank account,which is a lot less than the exchange rate.

 So,Tax,money, is being taken by someone,somewhere

 

 

Something is going wrong when they send it to your IBAN. Really, if you transfer money by bank there is nobody taking any tax.

 

I would ask that SIngapore company how much they send exactly, in which currency, and study you BKK bank statements. Maybe call BKK to ask how much they received, in which currency etc.

 

The Singapore company has no reason to withhold tax, you are a resident of Thailand. BKK doesn't take tax. It is just a bank transfer. They don't withhold income tax.

 

International bank transfers can be expensive, depending on the banks. But 12k Baht is too much.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by dimitriv

[SS1]

To OP: what you have described is correct.

 

Imo. this is one of the most greatest things about Thailand for forein business owners and those with income abroad. Income taxes are also reasonable here and I'm happy to pay my share from my local income. 

[LivinLOS]

22 hours ago, Ddbanksy said:

Within 30 days or so later i receive money(THB) in my BKK Bank account,which is a lot less than the exchange rate.

 So,Tax,money, is being taken by someone,somewhere

i.e.  15/6/2019 to 19/6/2019 Invoice(Full amount,Hrs plus expenses) for $SGD 1,920.

      24/7/2019 received BKK Bank THB 31,875

      So where as about 12,000thb gone?? given the exchange rate 0.043...ish 

     SG Tax? THAI Tax? BKK Bank? Transfer? Exchange rate? or all 5?

So demand payslips, demand tax returns, etc etc.. 

 

No one can explain what payroll options your engagement is operated under but you and your engaging party. 

 

 

[LivinLOS]

21 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

Apologies i am going to confuse you even more

A quick glance at the Singapore tax guidelines suggest that you are due to pay tax in Singapore. Assuming the employment is categorised as being in Singapore.

To be able to take advantage of Any DTA  in force . The Singapore IRAS require the person to lodge a certificate of tax exemption along with a certificate of residency confirmed by the home state tax authority.

 

Have you filled out a yearly Singapore tax assesment since 2007 when joining the company.

 

 

My point about how DTA agreements work, shown in a perfect example. 

Prove your not singapore resident or working in singapore (domestic sourced, some industries like offshore its compulsory), prove you are tax resident in another jurisdiction and filing returns, claim the tax from the place you are not resident back. 

[Almer]

On 7/27/2019 at 3:45 PM, watcharacters said:

 

Please provide an explanation for those of us who don't quite follow your post.

 

TIA

Yes i am completely at a loss to  understand your post

[mogandave]

Can’t speak to other countries, but at least in the US the double tax exemption caps at about $120-130k. Anything over you are taxed double.

If you make good dough, I would not cheap out on hiring a tax pro. Either bite the bullet and hire someone good, or buy a decent program and do it yourself

[Ddbanksy]

 
Something is going wrong when they send it to your IBAN. Really, if you transfer money by bank there is nobody taking any tax.
 
I would ask that SIngapore company how much they send exactly, in which currency, and study you BKK bank statements. Maybe call BKK to ask how much they received, in which currency etc.
 
The Singapore company has no reason to withhold tax, you are a resident of Thailand. BKK doesn't take tax. It is just a bank transfer. They don't withhold income tax.
 
International bank transfers can be expensive, depending on the banks. But 12k Baht is too much.
 
 
 
 

Thankyou,very helpful.I will ask the questions to the Company in Singapore and see what/when/if they reply!
I have worked in Singapore a couple of times,2010/11 and 2014/15 on Jurong Island in each case had a 2year work permit from MOM which the company withheld at their Office,I have an "S" Pass No. and a Fin No.
And a $12.00 cheque rebate in 2015/16
But never heard anything before or since???
Any advice much appreciated

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[JimGant]

On 7/31/2019 at 6:55 PM, mogandave said:

Can’t speak to other countries, but at least in the US the double tax exemption caps at about $120-130k. Anything over you are taxed double.

Not sure where you're coming from with that......

The Foreign Earned Income Exclusion is $103,900 for tax year 2018. But if you have foreign taxes on earned income over and above that amount, you can then use the tax credit method on this excess to eliminate double taxation. And for foreign taxes on unearned income, the tax credit method is available. So, there's no cap on amounts subject to protection against double taxation.

https://www.americansabroad.org/us-taxes-abroad-for-dummies-update/

[cleopatra2]

11 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Not sure where you're coming from with that......

The Foreign Earned Income Exclusion is $103,900 for tax year 2018. But if you have foreign taxes on earned income over and above that amount, you can then use the tax credit method on this excess to eliminate double taxation. And for foreign taxes on unearned income, the tax credit method is available. So, there's no cap on amounts subject to protection against double taxation.

https://www.americansabroad.org/us-taxes-abroad-for-dummies-update/

There is provisions in some US DTA to allow the dissaplying the DTA.

I understand this is to prevenf tax evasion .

 

There is restrictions on this exemption and relief from double tacation is one 

Edited August 2, 2019 by cleopatra2

[Ddbanksy]

Thanks Demitriv,
I have transfer details from the company I contract to in Singapore,who now use India as their finance base.
CPS Singapore payment is sent from Singapore in SGD,in full to my BKK Bank account.So that part is clear...?
My Thai sister in law,who worked for a Thai Bank before retiring says that since "The Junta"took up Office,my money is being held at the Thai Gov Bank in BKK,who take 16% to 17% before releasing it to my BKK Bank Branch in Sakhon Nahkon
Don't know but this would explain it all,
after delays, transfer,exchange fees this would add up.

Thankyou,very helpful.I will ask the questions to the Company in Singapore and see what/when/if they reply!
I have worked in Singapore a couple of times,2010/11 and 2014/15 on Jurong Island in each case had a 2year work permit from MOM which the company withheld at their Office,I have an "S" Pass No. and a Fin No.
And a $12.00 cheque rebate in 2015/16
But never heard anything before or since???
Any advice much appreciated

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[Ddbanksy]

Dimitriv,
I think I fall into this bracket.
Only thing is,the only bank account I have is Thai.
Lived LoS since 2007 on a TV,and SE visa based on marriage,contracting to SG.
Since 2018/19 non O ME visa based on marriage
I still hold a UK passport,but no bank account there and not been back since I left 2007.
Also don't qualify for a SG bank account,because I'm not a resident there.
Thanks Help

Quote: In Thailand, the tax year is the same as the calendar year - 1 January through to 31 December. You're considered a resident for tax purposes if you live in Thailand for 180 days or more on aggregate over the year.
 
I understand that you can also be a tax resident when you are staying here on a tourist visum.
 
Quote: Thai residents are also taxed on foreign-source income, but only if the income is brought into Thailand in the year derived (repatriation in later years is exempt from personal income tax).  For example, when a Thai tax resident earns foreign income in 2015 and does not transfer the funds to Thailand until 2016, they are not liable to pay personal income tax on that portion of the income. They would have to pay tax only if the amount was transferred to Thailand in the same year it was received – 2015.
 
If I understand everything correctly...  I have a company in my home country. When I leave the money I make on a bank account in my home country I will not pay income tax. Also, if I leave the money I made on a bank account in my home country for a year and transfer it to Thailand the next year I also don't have to pay income tax.
 
So I can decide myself if I want to pay tax, or not ?  It seems to be very attractive to officially leave my home country and stay in Thailand for 6+ months a year. 
 

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[dimitriv]

18 hours ago, Ddbanksy said:

I still hold a UK passport,but no bank account there and not been back since I left 2007.
 

 

You can make an account at https://transferwise.com

 

It is not a real bank, but they give EU bank account numbers you can use to receive money. Also UK, US and Australian. 

Once the money is there you can easily transfer it to a Thai bank account.  Or wait a year before transferring the money.

 

If I understand everything well you can open this account using a Thai address.

But if you still know someone in the UK you can maybe open it with a UK address. When you have a UK address you can also get their credit card. Which you maybe don't need. But always nice to have.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by dimitriv