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[rooster59]

Irish PM says hard Brexit would raise issue of Irish unification

By Conor Humphries

 

Ireland's Prime Minister (Taoiseach) Leo Varadkar arrives to take part in a European Union leaders summit, in Brussels, Belgium July 2, 2019. Geoffroy Van Der Hasselt/Pool via REUTERS

 

GLENTIES, Ireland (Reuters) - The question of the unification of Ireland and British-ruled Northern Ireland will inevitably arise if Britain leaves the European Union without a divorce deal on Oct. 31, Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar said.

 

He also warned that a so-called hard Brexit could undermine Scotland's place in the United Kingdom.

 

His comments on Friday prompted a sharp rebuke from Northern Ireland's largest pro-British party, the Democratic Unionist Party, whose member of parliament Ian Paisley said the Irish government's language was "unhelpful and unnecessarily aggressive."

 

Asked at a politics forum if the Irish government intended to begin to publicly plan for a united Ireland, Varadkar said it did not at present as it would be seen as provocative by pro-British unionists in Northern Ireland.

 

"But in the event of a hard Brexit, those questions do arise," he said.

 

"If Britain takes Northern Ireland out of the European Union against the wishes of the majority of people in Northern Ireland – takes away their European citizenship and undermines the Good Friday Agreement - in doing so, those questions will arise, whether we like it or not," Varadkar said at the MacGill Summer School conference in the northwest of Ireland.

 

"We are going to have to be ready for that."

 

In the 2016 referendum, 56 percent in Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU.

 

Over 3,600 people died in three decades of violence between Irish nationalists seeking a united Ireland and the British security forces and pro-British "unionists".

 

The 1998 Good Friday Agreement, which ended the violence, foresees the holding of referendums on both sides of the border on uniting the island if London and Dublin see public support for that. The British government says it does not believe there is sufficient support now.

 

Varadkar also suggested voters in Scotland, where 62 percent voted to remain in the EU in the 2016 referendum, might make a new push for independence.

 

"Ironically one of the things that could really undermine the union - the United Kingdom union - is a hard Brexit, both for Northern Ireland and for Scotland. But that is a problem that they are going to have to face," Varadkar said.

 

(Reporting by Conor Humphries; Editing by Kevin Liffey and Janet Lawrence)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-07-28

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[MRToMRT]

I am a remoaner (and I enjoy being one) but even I see this as just Varadkar stirring the pot because his BIG CONCERN is Irish trade with Europe and movement of goods through GB and NI while conforming with EU rules (not GB/NI rules as we do not know these yet).

Edited July 28, 2019 by MRToMRT

[cmarshall]

It is inevitable that NI will reunite with the Republic due to demographic shifts now in progress.  Brexit and Scottish independence will accelerate the process.  

[geoffbezoz]

29 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

It is inevitable that NI will reunite with the Republic due to demographic shifts now in progress.  Brexit and Scottish independence will accelerate the process.  

And a logical approach too as artificially dividing up countries rarely ends well eventually.  How lucky Northern Ireland are really as given 56% of them voted to stay in the EU,  they would have the golden opportunity of remaining within the EU under a united Ireland.  'cos the Tories will always oppose that as they always need the votes of those other political extremists, the DUP . Wonder how much Boris has offered to pay them for their votes, Didn't TM give them 2 billion GBP of tax payers money to buy their votes last time ?

[bendejo]

25 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

It is inevitable that NI will reunite with the Republic due to demographic shifts now in progress.  Brexit and Scottish independence will accelerate the process.  

Hadn't thought of this before, but it makes sense.  It will no longer be a United Kingdom, and if England stands alone it is no longer Great Britain.

I'm not from the isles, but from what I can discern from Irish/N Irish I meet in my travels it seems the old animosities have faded with the younger generations.

Unless Ireland takes Trump's advice and builds a wall. 

 

[lemonjelly]

Scotland breaking away from the UK, the Irish troubles kicking off again; that pleb Farage will be sitting in some gentrified rural pub lecturing scared old folk on how none of it was his fault when it all goes horribly wrong.

[AGareth2]

53 minutes ago, bendejo said:

Hadn't thought of this before, but it makes sense.  It will no longer be a United Kingdom, and if England stands alone it is no longer Great Britain.

but according to an author "God is an Englishman"

[cmarshall]

41 minutes ago, lemonjelly said:

Scotland breaking away from the UK, the Irish troubles kicking off again; that pleb Farage will be sitting in some gentrified rural pub lecturing scared old folk on how none of it was his fault when it all goes horribly wrong.

It would be comforting to think that the cratering of the UK economy that results from Brexit will deny power to the Tories for a generation, but the more likely, if entirely illogical, outcome is that hatred toward immigrants and minorities will increase instead.  After all, the was the Great Depression that fueled the fascist takeovers in the 30's.  

[DaddyWarbucks]

The unruly Irish are having their revenge on the Brits for centuries of exploitation and violence. 

No one seems to have an answer to what to do about Ireland's "soft border" with the UK or the desire of most Irish - and now add the Scots - to remain part of the EU.

Trump-style chanting "wall them off" won't resolve this thorny problem.

Making matters worse, the feeble Conservative hold on Parliament rests on ten Northern Irish MPs of the pipsqueak DUP.

If they get their Irish up, the government will fall.

[JAG]

12 hours ago, bendejo said:

Hadn't thought of this before, but it makes sense.  It will no longer be a United Kingdom, and if England stands alone it is no longer Great Britain.

I'm not from the isles, but from what I can discern from Irish/N Irish I meet in my travels it seems the old animosities have faded with the younger generations.

Unless Ireland takes Trump's advice and builds a wall. 

 

It certainly won't be the United Kingdom, just perhaps that is an idea which has run it's course, what with the demographic changes in Northern Ireland and the (possible) majority in Scotland for Independence. I can imagine England and Wales (who are after all very much the larger proportion of the population and economic activity) remaining as a completely viable unit. I speak as an Englishman, and one who is rather bored with the long running debate over Scottish Independence, and the occasional animosity and petulance which seems to come from it - make your minds up and get on with it!

 

Great Britain is of course a geographical rather than a political description, so it will remain.

Edited July 28, 2019 by JAG

[elliss]

12 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

but according to an author "God is an Englishman"

 

           Links, and was Jerusalem builded here..

 

     

Edited July 28, 2019 by elliss

[elliss]

6 hours ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

The unruly Irish are having their revenge on the Brits for centuries of exploitation and violence. 

No one seems to have an answer to what to do about Ireland's "soft border" with the UK or the desire of most Irish - and now add the Scots - to remain part of the EU.

Trump-style chanting "wall them off" won't resolve this thorny problem.

Making matters worse, the feeble Conservative hold on Parliament rests on ten Northern Irish MPs of the pipsqueak DUP.

If they get their Irish up, the government will fall.

 

        Why was the Irish issue not brought up , before the referendum .

          Not shown , on the big red bus..

 

      

      

          

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by elliss

[CG1 Blue]

6 minutes ago, elliss said:

 

        Why was the Irish issue not brought up , before the referendum .

          Not shown , on the big red bus..

 

      

      

          

 

Because it wasn't a big issue then, and it isn't a big issue now. They're blowing it out of proportion in order to make it harder for us to leave. Prior to the referendum the assumption was that we'd vote to remain. Once we voted to leave and our economy didn't crash as predicted, they needed to think of other 'problems'.

 

Both the EU and the Irish PM know a solution can be found for the border; increasing checks away from the border, using technology etc., but it doesn't fit their narrative to admit it. 

 

 

[evadgib]

I'm thoroughly bored at the constant repetition.

We're leaving whether they like it or not.

[Bluespunk]

And from that time, through wildest woe, 
That hope has shone a far light, 
Nor could love's brightest summer glow 
Outshine that solemn starlight; 
It seemed to watch above my head 
In forum, field and fane, 
Its angel voice sang round my bed, 
A Nation once again!

[JAG]

Of course what Mr Varadkar, and his government must absolutely know is that if Northern Ireland moves from being part of the UK to becoming part of a 32 county republic, then Ireland will need a huge and sustained influx of funding to sustain their new aquisition. The province is, economically, a basket case, and is totally reliant upon funding from the UK government to survive economically. The government spend per head is significantly higher per capita than in the republic, as is provision and funding for health services, schools, policing and so on.

 

What is more, they will be faced with either having to dramatically reduce provision and therefore the quality of such provision in the north - upsetting both communities there - in what is essentially a very volatile society - or matching it with increased spending in the south to avoid resentment and political damage. Either way, it will require massive and sustained funding.

 

That funding can only come from the EU. If the UK has left the EU then the money pot will be significantly reduced! I wonder if Mr Varadkar has really thought it through, I wonder if the EU has actually made any guarantees?

[7by7]

16 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

16 hours ago, cmarshall said:

It is inevitable that NI will reunite with the Republic due to demographic shifts now in progress.  Brexit and Scottish independence will accelerate the process.  

And a logical approach too as artificially dividing up countries rarely ends well eventually.

 So you believe that Wales and Scotland should both remain part of the UK as they share an island with England?

 

Regardless of what those living there wish?

 

16 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

How lucky Northern Ireland are really as given 56% of them voted to stay in the EU,  they would have the golden opportunity of remaining within the EU under a united Ireland.

I believe that given the choice of remaining in the EU by uniting with the Republic or remaining in the UK thus leaving the EU that the majority would opt to remain in the UK.

 

But, as per the Good Friday agreement, the people of Northern Ireland cannot be forced into joining the Republic; they must agree to it via a referendum.

[7by7]

16 hours ago, bendejo said:

England stands alone it is no longer Great Britain.

Great Britain is a geographical entity, not a political one.

[7by7]

3 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

3 hours ago, elliss said:

 

        Why was the Irish issue not brought up , before the referendum .

          Not shown , on the big red bus.

<snip>

Because it wasn't a big issue then, and it isn't a big issue now. They're blowing it out of proportion in order to make it harder for us to leave.

 Rubbish.

 

It was an issue then, it is an issue now.

 

Vote leave ignored it, as they ignored all the difficulties and disadvantages of Brexit.

 

Whenever the remain campaign brought any of these difficulties and disadvantages up, the Leave campaign labelled it as 'Project fear.'

 

Unfortunately, for various treasons, the leave campaign were better at getting their message across to those who usually took no interest in politics than the remain campaign were. Which swung the result narrowly in their favour.

 

 

[7by7]

20 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

3 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

3 hours ago, elliss said:

 

        Why was the Irish issue not brought up , before the referendum .

          Not shown , on the big red bus.

<snip>

Because it wasn't a big issue then, and it isn't a big issue now. They're blowing it out of proportion in order to make it harder for us to leave.

 Rubbish.

 

It was an issue then, it is an issue now.

 

Vote leave ignored it, as they ignored all the difficulties and disadvantages of Brexit.

 Further to the above:

 

Remember how Brexiters said Irish border wasn’t a problem?

Quote

Boris Johnson, Arlene Foster and other Brexiters dismissed concerns about Irish border out of hand during referendum. The wilful ignorance is breathtaking.

Former prime ministers John Major and Tony Blair, who had done so much to bring peace to Northern Ireland, tried to warn about the dangers of Brexit in 2016. But the Leave campaign drowned them out.

 

[smedly]

20 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Irish PM says hard Brexit would raise issue of Irish unification

and there is a guy/girl who is talking completely out their messy ass

 

The UK and ROI have had a FTA that long predates any EU treaties 

 

The ROI uses the UK as a Transport hub they also have the freedom the work and live in the UK and use our free NHS services to which they contribute nothing

 

The ROI outside Dublin is a backward disfunctional unserviced dark hole with little infrastructure while just across the border we have International level hospitals which are used by republic citizens because they have nothing on their side of the border

 

The people on the North of Ireland (UK) know exactly what they would be getting into and that is why 80% of the people in the north want no part of the micky mouse ROI

 

I have nothing against the Irish people, salt of the earth, but maybe they need to think about what side the butter is on, they are burning bridges threatening the UK people with nonsense - we have welcomed and taken care for a very long time, a little bit of caution is needed Ms Varadkar - be careful who you are getting into bed with

[smedly]

19 hours ago, cmarshall said:

It is inevitable that NI will reunite with the Republic due to demographic shifts now in progress.  Brexit and Scottish independence will accelerate the process.  

and you obviously have no clue what you are talking about

 

I love the Irish and one thing that 80% of people in the North know is that it is not something many want to get involved with - it really is a disfunctional country - they rely so heavily on the UK for so many things - outside of Dublin it is barren - oh yes lovely people but barren - imagine the most remote part of the UK with a population of 200 - that is pretty much 80% of the Republic of Ireland, we sometimes forget just what we have in the UK including Ulster - they have nothing like it in ROI - no wonder they want to grab it - they use it already

 

and I am talking from life experience

[sotonowl]

I can see the merits of this, the Irish `Republic needs to come back under Westminster rule, and not before time.

[sotonowl]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Rubbish.

 

It was an issue then, it is an issue now.

 

Vote leave ignored it, as they ignored all the difficulties and disadvantages of Brexit.

 

Whenever the remain campaign brought any of these difficulties and disadvantages up, the Leave campaign labelled it as 'Project fear.'

 

Unfortunately, for various treasons, the leave campaign were better at getting their message across to those who usually took no interest in politics than the remain campaign were. Which swung the result narrowly in their favour.

 

 

What a load of rubbish, do a bit of research before you start spouting <deleted>

[smedly]

19 hours ago, lemonjelly said:

Scotland breaking away from the UK, the Irish troubles kicking off again; that pleb Farage will be sitting in some gentrified rural pub lecturing scared old folk on how none of it was his fault when it all goes horribly wrong.

wow what a complete pile of nonsense that was 

 

 

several things that the SNP keep to themselves 

 

- the trade Scotland does in the UK

- The jobs created within the UK by the UK eg Shipbuilding

- The share of UK debt that Scotland would have to pay for at least 10 years at 10 billion a year

- the fact that a vote for independence is not that at all - you will take your orders from Brussels 

- you will have to adopt the Euro and monetary policy dictated from Brussels

 

The fantasy of the SNP is just that, I find it very hard to understand why Scottish people fall for this madness

 

The UK is a great force together - we have been through thick and thin - why would you want to get into bed with the Germans

 

someone explain that to me 

 

and I do apologize to any German folk reading this - I have met a few nice people from Germany but the British people will not accept this - you tried it before two times 

 

The UK will get back on top were it was before all this started - those that doubt that - a new era is coming, the British don't want to dominate the world - we just want to trade and be an independent free nation and allowed to govern ourselves 

 

we will trade freely with all of Europe - what is wrong with that ? 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by smedly

[smedly]

10 minutes ago, sotonowl said:

I can see the merits of this, the Irish `Republic needs to come back under Westminster rule, and not before time.

no not rule - just cooperation as we always have done - nobody is ruling anyone

 

 

if we go back to the concept of the common market - it was a great idea - 5 EU nations trading together - what could go wrong

 

now we have talk of a military empire led by the Germans - what the **** could go wrong with that

 

lets get back to trading 

[sotonowl]

20 minutes ago, smedly said:

no not rule - just cooperation as we always have done - nobody is ruling anyone

 

 

if we go back to the concept of the common market - it was a great idea - 5 EU nations trading together - what could go wrong

 

now we have talk of a military empire led by the Germans - what the **** could go wrong with that

 

lets get back to trading 

To be honest mate, I was TTP. We entered the common market which was fine and various politicians via various treaties which was never explained fully to the people have shafted us and brought us to where we are now. We need to leave as soon as we can, it's got Soviet written all over it. 

[sunnyboy2018]

The English cant remember what the Irish cant forget.  Once we leave the EU we can deny Irish the right to live in England. Really tired of anti english Celtic racism. I dont want, nor do my friends want the scots in our state anymore. Sick of their hate and racism and infiltration of the English political system. Please leave and set up an independent state.

[sotonowl]

27 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

The English cant remember what the Irish cant forget.  Once we leave the EU we can deny Irish the right to live in England. Really tired of anti english Celtic racism. I dont want, nor do my friends want the scots in our state anymore. Sick of their hate and racism and infiltration of the English political system. Please leave and set up an independent state.

The hatred the Scots have towards the English mainly stems (in the modern day) is their dependancy on us, let them go and see them squeal. I love the Scots but enough is enough. Time to cut them loose and see them sink. 

Oh, but they have the oil don't they? Not anymore apparently, it's just not acceptable now. It's still windy though. Cast them adrift and give them back to their old mates the snail gobblers.

[smedly]

27 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

The English cant remember what the Irish cant forget.  Once we leave the EU we can deny Irish the right to live in England. Really tired of anti english Celtic racism. I dont want, nor do my friends want the scots in our state anymore. Sick of their hate and racism and infiltration of the English political system. Please leave and set up an independent state.

I like the Scottish people - they are being lied too and led down some stupid path of complete nonsense - we can blame Mel Gibson for showing his cheeks

 

The last vote they had they convinced some people in Scotland that oil revenue would save them - shortly after the vote oil went through the floor

 

if they want to go begging to Brussels to bale them out when the UK turn their back then that is up to them - it would definitely be the wrong thing to do and I hope enough of them realise they are being lied to, they are not being informed of the truth, what is Scotland trade level with the UK...…...seems it doesn't matter - nobody talks about that

 

we are better together