Should Alan Turing be awarded a posthumous knighthood?

[webfact]

Should Alan Turing be awarded a posthumous knighthood?

It would be unprecedented, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t happen

David Buckley

 

 

When the artwork for the £50 note with London-born mathematician Alan Turing on it was revealed recently it got us thinking … why isn’t it showing Sir Alan Turing?

 

Well, a little bit of digging on the net reveals that posthumous honours are only awarded for acts of valour.

 

That may be the current situation, but does it need to be followed faithfully?

 

We here at London Inspire think that exceptions could – and should – be made. Turing wouldn’t be the only name on the list. There are good cases to be made for individuals such as World Cup winner Bobby Mooreand musicians such as Beatles John Lennon and George Harrison among others*.

 

However, in the codebreaker’s case, we would contend that Turing in his work did show valour.

 

No, he didn’t perform an obvious act of valour such as charging a machinegun nest or similar, but he did show great bravery. After playing a lead role in cracking the Nazi’s Enigma code he demonstrated enormous courage when helping to recommend which intercepts should (and shouldn’t) be acted upon.

 

Turing understood that if the Allies reacted to every message the Nazis would realise that their code had been broken.

 

So, Turing and colleagues, in effect, helped to decide who and what should be sacrificed for the greater good (see the YouTube clip). What a responsibility! Facing up to that task – playing God, in effect – displayed a special sort of valour.

 

Full story: https://londoninspire.co.uk/should-alan-turing-be-awarded-a-knighthood-posthumously/

 

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[BobBKK]

No because there are 100s of such cases and to do so would set a precedent. But he was a great man and deserves recognition and honours and how GB treated him is contemptible.

[Expattaff1308]

That's not Turin that's Benedict Cumberbatch

Edited July 30, 2019 by Expattaff1308

[Expattaff1308]

Edited July 30, 2019 by Expattaff1308
This is Alan Turin

[Joe Mcseismic]

If knighthoods are going to be distributed to long dead people, I'd like to nominate Guy Fawkes for one, too.

[OneMoreFarang]

He is dead. It won't make a difference for him.

[Expattaff1308]

21 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

If knighthoods are going to be distributed to long dead people, I'd like to nominate Guy Fawkes for one, too.

The only man to enter Parliament with honest intent.

[Purdey]

He should have been recognized while alive. It is a bit late now.

[Chelseafan]

2 hours ago, BobBKK said:

No because there are 100s of such cases and to do so would set a precedent. But he was a great man and deserves recognition and honours and how GB treated him is contemptible.

I'm not defending the actions of those at the time but it's very easy to judge history with todays values. My parents raised me to accept all people of all faiths and sexual orientations mainly due to the more liberal times we live in but I try to imagine being raised 60 or 70 years ago in a more disciplined time where homosexuality was seen as an abomination and wonder if my view would be different. 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Full disclosure of the treatment the British Government, Police, Courts and Medical Profession subjected Turing to is the justice Turing deserves, hang it around the neck of these institutions as a permanent reminder of their crimes.

 

Turing doesn’t need a knighthood, he’s dead, his legacy the destruction of the Nazis.

 

A posthumous knighthood from the institutions that persecuted him is obscene; dressing for the abusers and a cloak hiding wounds on a hero who has no need to hide anything.

 

Put his face on a bank note and add the words ‘We persecuted this hero’.

[sandrabbit]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Put his face on a bank note and add the words ‘We persecuted this hero’.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48962557

 

Whilst I agree with him being knighted I disagree with a bunch of luvvies & celebrities getting their faces in the trough at our expense to celebrate it.

[stevenl]

12 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

I'm not defending the actions of those at the time but it's very easy to judge history with todays values. My parents raised me to accept all people of all faiths and sexual orientations mainly due to the more liberal times we live in but I try to imagine being raised 60 or 70 years ago in a more disciplined time where homosexuality was seen as an abomination and wonder if my view would be different. 

 

Agree, we should not judge with todays' values.

 

But even at the values of the 50's his persecution was harsh.

[Bluespunk]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

 

Should Alan Turing be awarded a posthumous knighthood?

 

Yes. 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Full disclosure of the treatment the British Government, Police, Courts and Medical Profession subjected Turing to is the justice Turing deserves, hang it around the neck of these institutions as a permanent reminder of their crimes.

 

Turing doesn’t need a knighthood, he’s dead, his legacy the destruction of the Nazis.

 

A posthumous knighthood from the institutions that persecuted him is obscene; dressing for the abusers and a cloak hiding wounds on a hero who has no need to hide anything.

 

Put his face on a bank note and add the words ‘We persecuted this hero’.

Their actions were legal no matter how different it may look more than half a century later.

 

Which 'we' are you talking about this time?

[RJRS1301]

The knighthood is useless

Perhaps a monument to him, with an apology from the authorities engraved at the base, in a prominent place maybe outside the Old Bailey. 

[puipuitom]

He was good enough to break the enigma-code for the UK, and with hat making ww2 maybe 1-2 years shorter, saven maybe a million allied soldiers, but not good enough to live in his country. 

[evadgib]

Sir Jimmy Savile cannot be posthumously stripped of knighthood in the wake of sexual abuse allegations despite hints from Prime Minister David Cameron

 

Key Phrase:

the Cabinet Office said Savile no longer had a knighthood to revoke, as individuals cease to be a member of the order when they die.

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by evadgib

[Chelseafan]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

Agree, we should not judge with todays' values.

 

But even at the values of the 50's his persecution was harsh.

Not at the time. Homosexuality was illegal.

 

I do think that given what he did that the government should have given him more lee-way but again I'm basing that on my thinking of today.

 

There were a lot of things that we, as a country got wrong, the way we treated people of colour, sexism, equal pay etc but we've moved on and cannot retrospectively change them. Thankfully we are more progressive and if Turing were alive today no-one would bat an eyelid of his sexual orientation.

 

 

 

[RJRS1301]

3 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Not at the time. Homosexuality was illegal.

 

I do think that given what he did that the government should have given him more lee-way but again I'm basing that on my thinking of today.

 

There were a lot of things that we, as a country got wrong, the way we treated people of colour, sexism, equal pay etc but we've moved on and cannot retrospectively change them. Thankfully we are more progressive and if Turing were alive today no-one would bat an eyelid of his sexual orientation.

 

 

 

I would love to think we have "moved on" and were more accepting, but some recent incidents of homophobic violence against both women and men who are same sex attracted, seems mean we are a long way from acceptance of diversity.

The legal prosecutions may have been removed, but there appears to be a new lack of acceptance in some circles.

[Jingthing]

Since he was persecuted to death by his own country, I think a more apt and valuable gesture would be for the current government to create a fund to help gay civil rights groups in the many countries fighting similar persecution today. With no end date as I doubt there will ever be no countries doing that.

 

They could even solicit donations for the fund internationally. I think such a global effort would be greatly enhanced by branding it with the hero Turing's name. Also memory of him could also be preserved in this way. 

 

By contrast, a token knighthood is good for one day of news. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Jingthing

[Chelseafan]

22 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

I would love to think we have "moved on" and were more accepting, but some recent incidents of homophobic violence against both women and men who are same sex attracted, seems mean we are a long way from acceptance of diversity.

The legal prosecutions may have been removed, but there appears to be a new lack of acceptance in some circles.

I disagree with you. I think on the whole we are more accepting. If you go back 60 years being seen in the same circles of someone who was gay would alienate you from society, not so much these days.

 

You are always going to get homphobes in life, for these people there is no hope and frankly they are a waste of oxygen.

 

[Dap]

Yes!

[Basil B]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

He is dead. It won't make a difference for him.

I agree but I suppose he has living relatives, could say let's do it to appease the LGBTQ lot...

 

He is being honoured by being pictured on the back of the first plastic £50 note due out next year.

 

But more importantly a guy called Tommy Flowers...

Quote

an English engineer with the British Post Office. During World War II, Flowers designed and built Colossus, the world's first programmable electronic computer, to help solve encrypted German messages.

deserves more recognition for his part in the war effort to decode German communications.

 

Unfortunately his work and the success of Colossus was kept secret for decades while the Americans took the credit for building the first electronic computer.

[lungbing]

1 hour ago, Chelseafan said:

Not at the time. Homosexuality was illegal.

 

I do think that given what he did that the government should have given him more lee-way but again I'm basing that on my thinking of today.

 

There were a lot of things that we, as a country got wrong, the way we treated people of colour, sexism, equal pay etc but we've moved on and cannot retrospectively change them. Thankfully we are more progressive and if Turing were alive today no-one would bat an eyelid of his sexual orientation.

 

 

 

Homosexuality was not illegal.   Acting upon it was. He was not prosecuted for being homosexual but for indecent assault.

[Lacessit]

Tear down the statue of Douglas Haig in Whitehall, and put up one of Alan Turing in its stead. The former sacrificed British lives through stupidity, the latter saved British lives with intellect.

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, lungbing said:

Homosexuality was not illegal.   Acting upon it was. He was not prosecuted for being homosexual but for indecent assault.

Homophobia persists.

[faraday]

Yes, he should.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.  

 

[nong38]

We should not ever forget what a outstanding mind he had and his contribution to the world we now live in, nor should we forget the Post Office engineer who took out a loan to build the machine that turned out to be the first programmable computer. His name was Tommy Flowers. Not sure that knighting them after all these years is a good idea, might like to discuss down the pub but Alan and Tommy were a class act in their field like Broad and Anderson in cricket.

[Scott]

A post making a claim with no citation has been removed.