Pro-EU Liberal Democrats win parliamentary seat from UK PM Johnson's Conservatives

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, zorrow424 said:

Then with all your assertions on TVF,  yes worldwide audience of  what ?about a dozen,who cannot vote anyway,yes your message spreading far and wide   soi 6 to soi 8   lol   no hopers banging the no hope drum

You do realise that TVF is a discussion forum and that people discuss things here don't you?!

 

It might also dawn on you that members of TVF have lives off the forum and might participate in all sorts of things you are totally unaware of. 

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Erm no. 

 

Having a vote when people are better informed of the consequences will do. 

 

If you believe Brexit the will of the people you can hardly object. 

I was informed. If you weren't that's your problem you should have done more research on the subject - no need to vote again.

 

I object because voting again before the first vote has been implemented is against my democratic principles.

[geoffbezoz]

15 minutes ago, ThaiPauly said:

I read this morning that another Tory MP is seriously considering switching to Lib/Dems

Possibly 3 from foreign news articles.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, JAG said:

Not a nonsense scenario at all, but maybe one which you don't like!

There is a difference.

 

I don't like quite a lot of the views which you so  enthusiastically put forward, but I don't regard them as nonsense.

 

I don't get confused by them either!

I didn't say I didn't like it. 

 

Quite the contrary, I enjoyed your imaginations, they raised me a chuckle.

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

True.

 

I accept the result as I am a democrat. Do you accept the result of the referendum?

The referendum was over three years ago, and I'm sure you'll be first to agree  - as a democratic supporter - that the very expectation of what the 2016 vote represented at that time is certainly not the current no-deal option pursued by Johnson.  

 

As will be the case with the next GE, hopefully soon. Time and opinions move on. 

 

As for my position - I have always argued that the best place for Britain is to challenge the EU shortcomings - there are many, as well as supporting progressive enhancements, by having a seat at the table and a veto vote. 

 

For a current example, the nutrition standards set by the EU and the UK are globally accepted as being far stricter than the USA's dismal record on health. And we're considering doing a produce deal with Trump?

[evadgib]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And gladly welcomed. 

 

He's had the honesty to make his views known and is willing to put the good of the nation above his own political career. 

If he had any integrity he'd have offered himself for re election in his leave constituency years ago.

[david555]

Time for the hardcore brexiteers here on the board to get worried  & double dose your anti depressive med's....????

Edited August 2, 2019 by david555

[Jip99]

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I was informed. If you weren't that's your problem you should have done more research on the subject - no need to vote again.

 

I object because voting again before the first vote has been implemented is against my democratic principles.

 

Is a majority of 1 much  different to a majority of 2, for all practical purposes.

 

 

 

Another anti-democrat... the remoaners will love him....

 

 

Plaid Cymru 'committed to co-operating'

Plaid Cymru leader Adam Price - whose party did not stand in the Brecon and Radnorshire by-election - welcomed the Lib Dem victory.

“The single most important thing in this by-election was to put party politics aside, and deliver a pro-Remain MP for Brecon and Radnorshire..." he said, adding that another referendum should be held on Brexit.

“But if the prime minister is intent on a general election, he should know that Plaid Cymru and the other pro-Remain parties are committed to cooperating so that we beat Brexit once and for all.”

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, evadgib said:

If he had any integrity he'd have offered himself for re election in his leave constituency years ago.

He did. 

 

He took over 65% of the vote at the last General Election, an increase of over 2% on his previous successful run. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaconsfield_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

 

And correcting the other of two ''misinformations' in your single sentence response, Beaconsfield voted 'Remain' at the referendum.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum

 

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Chomper Higgot

[Rimmer]

A troll post removed

also an oversize meme

[JonnyF]

20 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

The referendum was over three years ago, and I'm sure you'll be first to agree  - as a democratic supporter - that the very expectation of what the 2016 vote represented at that time is certainly not the current no-deal option pursued by Johnson.  

 

As will be the case with the next GE, hopefully soon. Time and opinions move on. 

 

As for my position - I have always argued that the best place for Britain is to challenge the EU shortcomings - there are many, as well as supporting progressive enhancements, by having a seat at the table and a veto vote. 

 

For a current example, the nutrition standards set by the EU and the UK are globally accepted as being far stricter than the USA's dismal record on health. And we're considering doing a produce deal with Trump?

Ballot paper said Leave or Remain. Johnson is Leaving on 31 October with or without a deal. I see no contradiction that necessitates another vote.

 

You are welcome to your position but if you are truly a Democrat then you should accept the result of the referendum. Only accepting the result if you win is not democratic no matter how you try to spin it.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, JonnyF said:

Ballot paper said Leave or Remain. Johnson is Leaving on 31 October with or without a deal. I see no contradiction that necessitates another vote.

 

You are welcome to your position but if you are truly a Democrat then you should accept the result of the referendum. Only accepting the result if you win is not democratic no matter how you try to spin it.

So tens of thousands of people who just voted for a party that is opposing Brexit are not truly democratic?

 

Away with your nonsense. 

 

Democracy is a processes, it did not come to a shuddering halt on the morning of the referendum result - as this latest election result demonstrates. 

 

 

[stephenterry]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Ballot paper said Leave or Remain. Johnson is Leaving on 31 October with or without a deal. I see no contradiction that necessitates another vote.

 

You are welcome to your position but if you are truly a Democrat then you should accept the result of the referendum. Only accepting the result if you win is not democratic no matter how you try to spin it.

It really doesn't matter what I accept. What matters is how the Tory government act on it. As an individual I have a democratic right to campaign for or against the government's decision - as we all are. 

 

That's not spinning it, it's the reality and democratic right of any UK citizen.  If you choose to accept what the government has done and is currently doing to deliver Brexit it is your democratic right, also.

[bristolboy]

52 minutes ago, ThaiPauly said:

I read this morning that another Tory MP is seriously considering switching to Lib/Dems

Boris Johnson could lose majority overnight as Tory MP considers defecting to Lib Dems

A pro-EU Tory MP has said he is considering whether to defect to the Liberal Democrats, in a move that could wipe out the government’s Commons majority.

Dr Phillip Lee said he feels “politically homeless” over his party’s shift towards a no-deal Brexit following Boris Johnson’s election as Conservative leader.

 

The former justice minister, who has thrown his weight behind The Independent’s calls for a Final Say referendum, warned the Tories could lose voters if the party leads the UK out of the EU without a deal.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-defection-lib-dems-brexit-boris-johnson-majority-phillip-lee-a9030576.html

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So tens of thousands of people who just voted for a party that is opposing Brexit are not truly democratic?

 

Away with your nonsense. 

 

Democracy is a processes, it did not come to a shuddering halt on the morning of the referendum result - as this latest election result demonstrates. 

 

 

1. Yes but working on remainer logic as in the latest EU elections even though the Brexit party came top, remainers said they lost, so I'm sure you'll agree that in the Brecon by election that the Leave parties won considerably more votes than remain, kerching.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

1. Yes but working on remainer logic as in the latest EU elections even though the Brexit party came top, remainers said they lost, so I'm sure you'll agree that in the Brecon by election that the Leave parties won considerably more votes than remain, kerching.

I agree that the Government majority has just been been cut to 1. 

 

 

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

1. Yes but working on remainer logic as in the latest EU elections even though the Brexit party came top, remainers said they lost, so I'm sure you'll agree that in the Brecon by election that the Leave parties won considerably more votes than remain, kerching.

 

So you're not a big fan of first past the post, then?

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I agree that the Government majority has just been been cut to 1. 

 

 

Nothing to do with my post, but there again you cannot argue againgst fact so deflect.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Nothing to do with my post, but there again you cannot argue againgst fact so deflect.

Sorry for 'remaining' on topic. 

 

[Jip99]

38 minutes ago, david555 said:

Time for the hardcore brexiteers here on the board to get worried  & double dose your anti depressive med's....????

 

 

Why ?

 

Did you not understand the voting..... even ignoring the tactical voting to give the Tory a bloody nose the split was:-

 

 

Leave  16,141

 

Remain   15,673

 

 

(I have split the Loonies half and half and assumed that none of the labour voters want Brexit - unlikely)

 

 

Jane Dodds - Lib Dem - 13,826 (43.5%)

Chris Davies - Con - 12,401 (39%)

Des Parkinson - Brexit - 3,331 (10.5%)

Tom Davies - Labour - 1,680 (5.3%)

Lady Lily The Pink - Loony - 334 (1%)

Liz Phillips - UKIP - 242 (0.8%)

[Bluespunk]

11 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Boris Johnson could lose majority overnight as Tory MP considers defecting to Lib Dems

A pro-EU Tory MP has said he is considering whether to defect to the Liberal Democrats, in a move that could wipe out the government’s Commons majority.

Dr Phillip Lee said he feels “politically homeless” over his party’s shift towards a no-deal Brexit following Boris Johnson’s election as Conservative leader.

 

The former justice minister, who has thrown his weight behind The Independent’s calls for a Final Say referendum, warned the Tories could lose voters if the party leads the UK out of the EU without a deal.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-defection-lib-dems-brexit-boris-johnson-majority-phillip-lee-a9030576.html

...tock. 

 

“No destiny attacks us from outside. But, within him, man bears his fate and there comes a moment when he knows himself vulnerable; and then, as in a vertigo, blunder upon blunder lures him.”

 

Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Night Flight

[zorrow424]

3 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Why ?

 

Did you not understand the voting..... even ignoring the tactical voting to give the Tory a bloody nose the split was:-

 

 

Leave  16,141

 

Remain   15,673

 

 

(I have split the Loonies half and half and assumed that none of the labour voters want Brexit - unlikely)

 

 

Jane Dodds - Lib Dem - 13,826 (43.5%)

Chris Davies - Con - 12,401 (39%)

Des Parkinson - Brexit - 3,331 (10.5%)

Tom Davies - Labour - 1,680 (5.3%)

Lady Lily The Pink - Loony - 334 (1%)

Liz Phillips - UKIP - 242 (0.8%)

Pity Labour got that .3,lost deposit,still next time around they can team up with Loony party.     Time the leavers got to tactical voting,sweep the board  win win win

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, zorrow424 said:

Pity Labour got that .3,lost deposit,still next time around they can team up with Loony party.     Time the leavers got to tactical voting,sweep the board  win win win

 

 

Labour look finished to me........ the Tories in disarray and Labour can't muster spit !!

[JAG]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I didn't say I didn't like it. 

 

Quite the contrary, I enjoyed your imaginations, they raised me a chuckle.

Good, I am glad they amused you.

 

There was a point though, about "number crunching" by-election results to predict general election results.

 

You may recall (I don't know how old you are) all the Liberal/Social Democratic Party/Liberal Democrat revivals and break throughs predicted on the basis of various by-election results in the last decades of the last century?

[Rimmer]

troll post removed

[TopDeadSenter]

Don’t read too much into this election and result. Fact is Jane Dodds was by far the most popular candidate going into this and was forecast to win by a landslide. If anything I expected her to get a bigger share of the vote, so in essence this was a minor win for Bojo and Farage. 

[Basil B]

 

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Splitting the Leave vote between Tories and the Brexit party will not end well for either of them.

 

Funny how the main policy of the Liberal Democrats is to reverse the outcome of a democratic vote. A name change might be in order.

 

2 hours ago, JAG said:

Using/interpretation of by-election results to predict national election results is a dodgy game, but it is perhaps noting that Plaid Cymru and the Green Party did not field candidates. If one takes the votes Plaid won at the general election, and assume (quite realistically) that they went to the Lib Dems, there is her majority!

 

What is more, the Brexit Party won some 3000 votes, rather more (6 times or so) than their predecessors UKIP. Again, realistic to assume that those votes came from the Tories.

 

Feed these two points into the the analysis and perhaps a rather different picture emerges...

So where did the other 5000 votes go?

Edited August 2, 2019 by Basil B

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Don’t read too much into this election and result. Fact is Jane Dodds was by far the most popular candidate going into this and was forecast to win by a landslide. If anything I expected her to get a bigger share of the vote, so in essence this was a minor win for Bojo and Farage. 

If this is a minor win for Johnson and Farage, I wish them many more like it the future, bigger too would be just Dandy!

[Basil B]

17 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Don’t read too much into this election and result. Fact is Jane Dodds was by far the most popular candidate going into this and was forecast to win by a landslide. If anything I expected her to get a bigger share of the vote, so in essence this was a minor win for Bojo and Farage. 

Agree, the wonders of apathy...

When we rely on people having to trug along to the polling station to put a cross on a piece of paper when the result is a forgone conclusion according to all the opinion polls , many have better things to do and they won't miss my vote...

 

 

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

You mean keep voting until you get the result you want.

yeahp just what May was trying to do, she did try 3 x and 3 x she didn't get the wanted result...now let's try with Boris maybe another 3 x