Pro-EU Liberal Democrats win parliamentary seat from UK PM Johnson's Conservatives

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

It really is the time for Labour to get rid of Corbyn.  They have a real opportunity if they just get someone electable to lead the party.  I have never voted Labour in my life and I don't intend to any time soon but I would happily stand aside if it brings down this pathetic government.

 

Th LIb Dems winning a by-election is no big deal, it was always expected as the other parties run around like headless chickens.

You leave poor old Jeremy alone, he's doing a great job. ????????????

[dunroaming]

25 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

I'm still waiting for the collapse of the British economy "within months" that Carney & Co promised us would be the inevitable result of a "Leave" vote in the referendum two years ago

And I am still waiting for the EU to come to offering us "the easiest deal ever".  I guess we are both out of luck there.  Nobody knows how badly the UK economy will be hit until we leave but everyone can agree, it will be hit!

[puipuitom]

LDEM: 43.5% (+14.3)
CON: 39.0% (-9.6)
BREX: 10.5% (+10.5)
LAB: 5.3% (-12.5)
MRLP: 1.0% (+1.0)
UKIP: 0.8% (-0.6)

The Liberal Democrats won 13,826 votes with the Tories taking 12,401, a margin of 1,425 that overturned the Tories’ previous majority of more than 8,000. It was a sobering night for the Labour party (1,680 votes), which was beaten into fourth place by the Brexit party (3,331), and only just held on to its deposit. Ukip (242) came last behind the Monster Raving Loony party (334).

 

And as the British system is: thr winner takes it all, the other hold nothing… the next PM = LibDem, or at least a coalition. Hopefully this time with teh LibDem as major and another as minor. Maybe, very maybe, the British system will be developed to a real democracy

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

True.

I accept the result as I am a democrat. Do you accept the result of the referendum?

yes, 51,88 % voted for a kind of "Leave", 48,11% voted for only one kind of "Remain". And many "leavers" feel to be lied to, cheated, doublecrossed and wrong informed.

Edited August 2, 2019 by puipuitom

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

You mean keep voting until you get the result you want.

No, come with an honest questions + give the right information.

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, zorrow424 said:

Not a question now of controlling parliament,the decision is set,decision made....once out Boris will be the UKs darling

I Holland we also once had a "darling", Johan de Witt. Till the people discovered to where his politics lead them to  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_de_Witt "Year of Disaster"

[7by7]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Er...no. But things have changed rather since then, especially since this ridiculous withdrawal agreement was exposed, along with the declared intentions and/or party-switching of several MPs. Or did you miss it?

Indeed, just as things have changed since 2016: especially with the full effect of Brexit becoming more apparent. 

 

So your argument for a GE before 2022 applies equally to holding another referendum!! 

[Jonnapat]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Splitting the Leave vote between Tories and the Brexit party will not end well for either of them.

 

Funny how the main policy of the Liberal Democrats is to reverse the outcome of a democratic vote. A name change might be in order.

Thè '' democratic vote " aided by lies and false promises was 3 years ago. 

People have the right to change their minds 

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Indeed, just as things have changed since 2016: especially with the full effect of Brexit becoming more apparent. 

 

So your argument for a GE before 2022 applies equally to holding another referendum!! 

I would say instead: "the effect of the Brexit 'negotiations' is becoming partially apparent after the content of the terrible treaty that May proposed was exposed".

 

I'm not sure why you think I am arguing for a GE before 2022? Another referendum is not on my wish list either. Wishful thinking on your part, not mine.  

[dunroaming]

19 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Indeed, just as things have changed since 2016: especially with the full effect of Brexit becoming more apparent. 

 

So your argument for a GE before 2022 applies equally to holding another referendum!! 

But I think a GE is a far better bet than a second referendum.  With one of those you would be very likely to get a remain win but would still end up with these clowns in government.  It is not just Brexit they are screwing up, it is everything else as well.

[Stupooey]

6 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Why ?

 

Did you not understand the voting..... even ignoring the tactical voting to give the Tory a bloody nose the split was:-

 

 

Leave  16,141

 

Remain   15,673

 

 

(I have split the Loonies half and half and assumed that none of the labour voters want Brexit - unlikely)

 

 

Jane Dodds - Lib Dem - 13,826 (43.5%)

Chris Davies - Con - 12,401 (39%)

Des Parkinson - Brexit - 3,331 (10.5%)

Tom Davies - Labour - 1,680 (5.3%)

Lady Lily The Pink - Loony - 334 (1%)

Liz Phillips - UKIP - 242 (0.8%)

Wishful thinking - this was an election, not a Brexit referendum, and people did take other issues into account when casting their votes. Bearing in mind that in the 2016 referendum almost 40% of Conservative voters supported Remain, one would expect a significant proportion of the 12,401 to be Remainers staying loyal to their roots. Similarly about 35% of Labour's 1,680 would probably be Leavers, but 40% of 12,401 is considerably more than 35% of 1,680.

[Baerboxer]

8 hours ago, evadgib said:

As expected ????

 

What's more worrying is the criminal convicted of falsifying his expenses was allowed to run again, and came a very close second!

 

Corrupt greedy self interested politicians are now accepted without question in the UK!

 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

But I think a GE is a far better bet than a second referendum.  With one of those you would be very likely to get a remain win but would still end up with these clowns in government.  It is not just Brexit they are screwing up, it is everything else as well.

 

Criminal dishonesty is no longer a barrier to being an MP in the Tory Spiv Party!

 

They are all a bunch of chancers only interested in themselves.

 

Tory party gone completely to the dogs.

[geoffbezoz]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What's more worrying is the criminal convicted of falsifying his expenses was allowed to run again, and came a very close second!

 

Corrupt greedy self interested politicians are now accepted without question in the UK!

 

Indeed that is deeply worrying. Not only because despite his criminal conviction the Tories selected him to run again for election but just as bad , the morals of the people who voted for him again, after his conviction. This leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion, and if that is replicated at the next GE, no telling whom may be elected.

[JAG]

8 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Funny how the main policy of the Liberal Democrats is to reverse the outcome of a democratic vote. A name change might be in order.

Having lived in a West Country City, where for many years the Lib Dems controlled both the MPs seat and the local council, I am not in the slightest bit surprised. In power, they were neither liberal nor particularly democratic!

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

LDEM: 43.5% (+14.3)
CON: 39.0% (-9.6)
BREX: 10.5% (+10.5)
LAB: 5.3% (-12.5)
MRLP: 1.0% (+1.0)
UKIP: 0.8% (-0.6)

The Liberal Democrats won 13,826 votes with the Tories taking 12,401, a margin of 1,425 that overturned the Tories’ previous majority of more than 8,000. It was a sobering night for the Labour party (1,680 votes), which was beaten into fourth place by the Brexit party (3,331), and only just held on to its deposit. Ukip (242) came last behind the Monster Raving Loony party (334).

 

And as the British system is: thr winner takes it all, the other hold nothing… the next PM = LibDem, or at least a coalition. Hopefully this time with teh LibDem as major and another as minor. Maybe, very maybe, the British system will be developed to a real democracy

 

 

Agree with your comments apart from your last sentence.

 

Are you a proportional representation fan - someone who likes those hung parliaments based on horse trading so popular in many European countries? Or perhaps a total democracy fan like Switzerland?

 

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Criminal dishonesty is no longer a barrier to being an MP in the Tory Spiv Party!

 

They are all a bunch of chancers only interested in themselves.

 

Tory party gone completely to the dogs.

Not just the Tory Party, Jo Swinson submitted MPs expenses for tooth flosser, eye liner and other trivial expenses totalling over £500.

 

"At one point, she submitted a Tesco receipt for £22.67 that appeared to show that the MP or an aide went to the trouble of putting an asterisk next to three items, totalling £5.75, for which she intended to claim — a £1.75 chopping board, a “food saver” for £1.50 and a £2.50 sieve.

An Asda receipt included a bottle of Mr Sheen cleaner costing 78p and a £1.19 window cleaner. She also claimed for a hair dryer and £16 lavatory roll holder, along with a £14.10 invoice to have a spare key cut for her cleaner."

[puipuitom]

17 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Agree with your comments apart from your last sentence.

Are you a proportional representation fan - someone who likes those hung parliaments based on horse trading so popular in many European countries? Or perhaps a total democracy fan like Switzerland?

No, a parliament, which reflects the votes of the inhabitants of a nation.

Yes, compromises have to be found, and NOT as in a duo-party nation, where "the other = the mortal enemy", but with coalition parties OR.. the coalition parties of a next possible coalition. Result is, a decission is always more into line with what is ( believed to be ) good for the entire nation.

And  "hung parliament" ? ? Even when a government is "demissionar", still majorities can be found in Parlaiment. I remind you the record ever in Belgium: 541 days, all just continued, only no "automatic" majorities. The Belgians even made jokes like: "it went never so good.. continue with NO (national) government for ever". 

Edited August 2, 2019 by puipuitom

[brewsterbudgen]

It matters not one jot whether we have another referendum or not senior politicians have already said that if leave won again, they would still not honour the result. Does that sound like democracy to you?

Can you provide a link for this? Which senior politicians?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[dunroaming]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

1. Yes but working on remainer logic as in the latest EU elections even though the Brexit party came top, remainers said they lost, so I'm sure you'll agree that in the Brecon by election that the Leave parties won considerably more votes than remain, kerching.

 

So does that mean that when people said that when Johnson is PM, the Brexit party would be toast, they were talking rubbish?  According to figures here it was the Brexit party that stopped the Conservatives from winning.  Clearly over three thousand people have more faith in Farage delivering Brexit than Johnson. ????

 

That is of course if the Brexit voters would have been Conservative voters and not Labour and Lib Dem.  A lot of Brexit Party voters actually are ex labour.  Still, Johnson fans won't want to hear that.

[dunroaming]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

You leave poor old Jeremy alone, he's doing a great job. ????????????

I assume you are speaking as a Conservative ????

[stevenl]

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

Not just the Tory Party, Jo Swinson submitted MPs expenses for tooth flosser, eye liner and other trivial expenses totalling over £500.

 

"At one point, she submitted a Tesco receipt for £22.67 that appeared to show that the MP or an aide went to the trouble of putting an asterisk next to three items, totalling £5.75, for which she intended to claim — a £1.75 chopping board, a “food saver” for £1.50 and a £2.50 sieve.

An Asda receipt included a bottle of Mr Sheen cleaner costing 78p and a £1.19 window cleaner. She also claimed for a hair dryer and £16 lavatory roll holder, along with a £14.10 invoice to have a spare key cut for her cleaner."

Not doubting you here, but if you quote one should provide a link.

[stag4]

12 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Can you provide a link for this? Which senior politicians?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1158787/brexit-news-sky-latest-jo-swinson-liberal-democrats-second-referendum-corbyn-video

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Can you provide a link for this? Which senior politicians?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

Jo Swinson leader of the Lib/Dems and Caroline Lucas of the Greens.

"Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson says she would vote against Brexit even if a second referendum backed it"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/23/lib-dem-leader-jo-swinson-says-would-vote-against-brexit-even/

 

 

 

 

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Not doubting you here, but if you quote one should provide a link.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5357437/MPs-expenses-Jo-Swinson-submitted-receipts-for-tooth-flosser-and-eyeliner.html

[dunroaming]

Just now, vogie said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5357437/MPs-expenses-Jo-Swinson-submitted-receipts-for-tooth-flosser-and-eyeliner.html

The Telegraph ????.  Still it is a quote, probably written by their star reporter Boris Johnson!

[kingdong]

9 hours ago, stephenterry said:

It was expected for 2 reasons - although I am not surprised that the Boris factor made it a close call.

 

The Tory candidate is a lying cheater and not fit for office, and the Lib Dems pro EU stance guaranteed them victory.

 

A kick up the backside for Johnson.  Maybe he should reassess what's best for Britain instead of playing pa

9 hours ago, stephenterry said:

Speculation, dear boy. A result is a result as all leavers would say -it was a democratic victory for a pro EU party. 

rty politics to gender support for the Tories at the expense of Farage. 

 

Bottom line - the Tory government Brexit will be decimated at the next GE providing Labour kick out Corbyn and stick with a peoples vote on whatever deal it manages to obtain.   Better still, kick out Brexit and the ERG right wing element.

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

The Telegraph ????.  Still it is a quote, probably written by their star reporter Boris Johnson!

There is a video of her saying it, it cannot be any more conclusive.

[kingdong]

9 hours ago, stephenterry said:

But hey, remember it's first past the post as all the leavers would cry. That's democracy.

but hey,remember britain voted to leave the EU in a referendum wasn,t that democracy? obviously not as the remoaners didn,t get the result they wanted,31st oct we,re out.

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

There is a video of her saying it, it cannot be any more conclusive.

And you wrote "senior politicians". So who is the other one?