TM30 - is anybody actually clear on this?

[Scorpion364]

Article 37 of the Immigration Act 1979 says that the TM30 is required when an alien visits another province. I've definitely seen it worded like this on the wall at Chaeng Wattana immigration office, too. However, all references I can find only say that you need to submit it, even if you stay away from home WITHIN the same province - even if it's an overnight hospital visit.

 

Sure, I'm familiar with the general rule here in Thailand - the laws often depend upon which side of the bed the immigration officer has emerged from that morning - but can anyone shed light on this?

[Brer]

It’s perfectly clear for me, as explained by three IO’s who stated I don’t need to do anymore unless I leave Thailand and return.

When I return to Thailand I must do the next day.

Obviously they dont want an influx of farangs creating more work for them.

It might change tomorrow though, “but you told me I don’t need to report the last time I was here”

 

”Money please”

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Brer
Error

[sniggie]

No.

[PhonThong]

The law is very simple. The rule is'

 "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't'. 

Couldn't be any clearer!

  

[NCC1701A]

33 minutes ago, Scorpion364 said:

but can anyone shed light on this?

confusion and corruption go hand and hand. 

[schlemmi]

33 minutes ago, Scorpion364 said:

Article 37 of the Immigration Act 1979 says that the TM30 is required when an alien visits another province.

No. Article 38 stated that the housemaster has to report. This has to be done by the rules released by the Director General of the police. An the rules of the Director General contain the templates of the forms to use. As released they had no TM## numbering but this is the actual TM30 form.

 

I uploaded all this stuff in the thread about the patition to scrap the tm30. You will find it there.

[Salerno]

Yes, the only thing confusing is why the confusion on here.

[jackdd]

58 minutes ago, Scorpion364 said:

Article 37 of the Immigration Act 1979 says that the TM30

Article 37 = TM28, the foreigner has to report

Article 38 = TM30, the owner, landlord, possessor has to report

Edited August 3, 2019 by jackdd

[schlemmi]

5 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Yes, the only thing confusing is why the confusion on here.

The congusion is because:

a.) The IOs spread different informations.

b.) The informations from the higher ranking officials are incomplete and missleading.

c.) The english translations are different and incomplete.

d.) The lack of the most foreigners, concerned to this legal issues, in reading thai to understand the original versions og the law.

 

[Salerno]

None of which justifies the mountains being made of our of molehills on this topic.

 

• The law has been the law for years but ralely enforced.
• Now they have decided to enforce it
• As with everything, the level of enforcement depends on where you report
• If they don't want one where you are today they may well want one tomorrow

So, if you are someone that it potentially affects, to account for which way the wind blows or whether the IO got laid the night before you go see them:

 

• Grab the app and get it sorted and/or
• Sign up on the website and/or
• Grab a stack of forms and envelopes and
• Lodge on your own behalf when you are supposed to under the law

A pain in the arse it may be but it's not rocket science nor is it he major catastrophe the usual suspects on here make it out to be.

 

[CMNightRider]

10 minutes ago, Salerno said:

None of which justifies the mountains being made of our of molehills on this topic.

 

• The law has been the law for years but ralely enforced.
• Now they have decided to enforce it
• As with everything, the level of enforcement depends on where you report
• If they don't want one where you are today they may well want one tomorrow

So, if you are someone that it potentially affects, to account for which way the wind blows or whether the IO got laid the night before you go see them:

 

• Grab the app and get it sorted and/or
• Sign up on the website and/or
• Grab a stack of forms and envelopes and
• Lodge on your own behalf when you are supposed to under the law

A pain in the arse it may be but it's not rocket science nor is it he major catastrophe the usual suspects on here make it out to be.

 

Thanks for your input Mr. or Ms. immigration.  This nonsensical requirement is not a molehill as you suggest but is further harassment intended to discourage westerners from living in this country.  

 

Thai Immigration should find enforcing idiotic regulations like these TM forms embarrassing but I guess after enforcing the 90 day reporting, this added TM harassment feels normal.  Immigration in their haste to implement the TM forms has made the directions to abide to it as clear as mud.      

[Salerno]

2 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Thanks for your input Mr. or Ms. immigration.

Thanks for the reply Mr. or Ms. drama queen.

[theoldgit]

I'm pretty sure that IO's aren't completely clear on this either.

On my return from a two week trip within Thailand this week, staying at four different hotels in three different provinces, I presented myself to my local immigration office, where I was told I didn't need to report as I hadn't left the country, a mate of mine went to the same office yesterday, probably a different IO, and was advised that he needs to "check in" if he visits another province for 24 hours or more. 

If IO's in one small office can give conflicting advice, how on earth are we supposed to get it right?

[Salerno]

Which is why I suggested that if you are potentially affected (i.e. live there or likely to go to Immi for whatever reason) get hooked up online or via the app and lodge on your own behalf at your leisure. That way regardless of what the IO at a given locations decides the rules are that day you're covered.

[Scorpion364]

54 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Which is why I suggested that if you are potentially affected (i.e. live there or likely to go to Immi for whatever reason) get hooked up online or via the app and lodge on your own behalf at your leisure. That way regardless of what the IO at a given locations decides the rules are that day you're covered.

Salerno, thanks for your input, (and others, but I respond to yours here...) Do you mean you can complete and submit the TM30 yourself - you don't have to ask your landlord to do it? I suspect they ask you to get your landlord to do it because then there is less chance it will be done... (Especially if your landlord is one of the 'mai pen rai', head-in-the-sand tribe.)

 

I've just sent my new landlord an e-mail drawing their attention to this, and advising them if they don't submit the form when I request them to, that any fine I incur will be deducted from the rent I pay them for that month. It totally does seem unreasonable though to give them an extra task whensoever I choose to take a short break away, and I feel that the onus should be on ME, not them. Wouldn't I need a copy of their title deeds/ID though, and would they be so keen to hand these over to me? Is there any danger in them doing so? (Apologies for not being more in-the-know, but I guess that's what these forums are for! Thanks in advance for any further advice...)

Edited August 3, 2019 by Scorpion364

[Salerno]

@Scorpion364 Yes, you can do it yourself as "possessor", possibly need some details from the landlord. 

 

If you have a long-term lease personally I'd get set up myself (app and online account as both are usual Thai IT quality!).

 

If short-term and the landlord tends to lease short-term, I'd suggest to the landlord they set up an account and when they get a new tenant, give the account details to the tenant so they can report themselves and just change the password for the next tenant.

 

• App: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=th.go.immigration.section38&hl=en
• Website: https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Salerno
Added links

[Scorpion364]

2 minutes ago, Salerno said:

@Scorpion364 Yes, you can do it yourself as "possessor". 

 

If you have a long-term lease personally I'd get set up myself (app and online account as both are usual Thai IT quality!).

 

If short-term and the landlord tends to lease short-term, I'd suggest to the landlord they set up an account and when they get a new tenant, give the account details to the tenant so they can report themselves and just change the password for the next tenant.

I have a year's contract, and will probably only stay here a year. The landlord in question has multiple (many, many) properties, so I would actually expect they already have an account, and do this as standard for other tennants. However, I presume a large % of those tennants are Thai, and while I myself have only just become aware of this law (because they've recently started clamping down on it more) I have to suspect they may not actually have a clue about it. I await their reply!

 

 

[Salerno]

11 minutes ago, Scorpion364 said:

The landlord in question has multiple (many, many) properties, so I would actually expect they already have an account, and do this as standard for other tennants.

That is the only real issue I see with this new found desire for enforcement. I'd bet my bottom dollar a hell of a lot of "landlords", especially those in the AirBnB program, aren't paying tax or paying less than they should; filing TM30s could bring that fact to the governments attention.

 

If yours has so many properties, likely to be 100% legit. Even with looking at just being there a year, personally I'd feel better it being my responsibility than the landlords.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Salerno

[Scorpion364]

The AirBnBs are better for us though. If they ain't paying tax, they're not gonna report we're staying there, so we're not gonna have to submit a TM30...

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, Scorpion364 said:

The AirBnBs are better for us though. If they ain't paying tax, they're not gonna report we're staying there, so we're not gonna have to submit a TM30...

Why is that better ? Later when you go to immigration for an extension, you dont get an extension and there are fines to pay before you can. As a tourist or expat staying at a property you want TM30s to be put in.

[Salerno]

14 minutes ago, Scorpion364 said:

If they ain't paying tax, they're not gonna report we're staying there, so we're not gonna have to submit a TM30

Which is where people can be tripped up. Say you stay in a place in Bkk that doesn't file, you then do a tour up north staying in a hotel or wherever that actually files. You head back to Bkk and for whatever reason (extension, 90 day report etc.) you have to deal with Immi. Last TM30 on the system would be from up north ... cue sounds of cash till.

 

IMO play there stupid game, but take third parties out of the equation ... enjoy stress free life and let others pay fines.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Salerno

[holy cow cm]

I have yet to hear different from CM as they told me years ago only needed after outside the travel. Now until I hear differently, I will not bother for domestic travel. Has anyone heard anyone from CM saying anything new?  

Edited August 3, 2019 by holy cow cm

[MRToMRT]

3 hours ago, Salerno said:

Which is where people can be tripped up. Say you stay in a place in Bkk that doesn't file, you then do a tour up north staying in a hotel or wherever that actually files. You head back to Bkk and for whatever reason (extension, 90 day report etc.) you have to deal with Immi. Last TM30 on the system would be from up north ... cue sounds of cash till.

 

 

For 90 day report would the TM30 be an issue? 

[Salerno]

@MRToMRT  At the current time not as far as I'm aware, most reports of fines seem to be about people going for extensions, although a few people have been caught in spot checks of condos. If Immi decide it's a nice little earner who knows though. That's why if I was in the position I'd just bite the bullet, get an account set up if I could, and play their stupid game with as little inconvenience as possible.

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Salerno

[Scorpion364]

1 hour ago, Salerno said:

@MRToMRT  At the current time not as far as I'm aware, most reports of fines seem to be about people going for extensions, although a few people have been caught in spot checks of condos. If Immi decide it's a nice little earner who knows though. That's why if I was in the position I'd just bite the bullet, get an account set up if I could, and play their stupid game with as little inconvenience as possible.

 

Not sure if I understand this correctly, but I think the following example contradicts...

 

A friend of mine works at a school in Nonthaburi where 12 teachers' passports went to Immi for 90 day reporting. 8 of them got rejected and the teachers fined, because they'd had weekends away and not filed TM30. This is new, yes, because they're clamping down on it, but the law is old, so there can be no comeback. The teachers in question were of various nationalities.

[Salerno]

Thanks @Scorpion364

 

Well there you go, first reports I've read they check for TM30 when doing 90 day reports too! Makes sense (in a nonsensical situation). 

[Scorpion364]

Am a teacher too. We're here to educate your (removed)children - why make life difficult for us!?!?!

 

Thailand just wants to remain docile... Ignorance is bliss!

[CharlieH]

My own experience, only if leave and re-enter the country OR moving place of residence to another Province.

 

However, as many of us know, inconsistency and interpretations vary dramatically from province to province and sometimes within the same office !! ????

[Barry864]

How can you set up an account to see if a tenant can really do that for himself ?

Anybody got a link ?

EDIT : I found the link and only owners of the property are supposed to register  giving details of property ID etc. What is this "possessor" status some people are advocating ? Is it legal ?

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Barry864

[schlemmi]

13 hours ago, Scorpion364 said:

 

A friend of mine works at a school in Nonthaburi where 12 teachers' passports went to Immi for 90 day reporting. 8 of them got rejected and the teachers fined, because they'd had weekends away and not filed TM30.

Please explain on detail. I like to know the following:

a) Did they go in person or used they someone to send the passports together with the tm47 90 days teport?

 

b) Are they their own housemasters and in duty to do the tm30 report or is another person the housemaster?

 

c) Do i understad right, they not get the receipt slip of the tm47 90 days report form?

 

d) How are they get fined and how much?  The person who transfered the passport paid or they get a ticket to pay?

 

e) Do they have any evidence about this case. Do they have whitness. Do they know the name of the IO?

Edited August 4, 2019 by schlemmi