Democrats condemn Trump, white nationalism after two mass shootings

[marcusarelus]

3 hours ago, newnative said:

      Nice deflection and, unfortunately, that is all we ever get--whether the Democrats are in power or the Republicans.  251 incidents of gun violence in America so far this year involving 4 or more victims.  And, its only August.   How many with fertilizer?

      America always gets hung up on the second amendment 'right to keep and bear arms'.  Nowhere does it say they can be assault rifles capable of shooting a hundred rounds a minute.  Nowhere does it say high capacity magazines are a right.  Hard to kill 20 or 30 people quickly before you're put down if you are limited to owning a handgun that fires a small number of rounds.  And, no, you don't need an assault rifle to go deer hunting.

This has been a topic of debate for many years in America.  Why did not Clinton or Obama those wonderful Presidents do anything about it?

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Hogs said:

YES TO ALL THE ABOVE 

It is my right under the constitution and as long as I do not break the law I should be able to own as MANY guns as I wish as well as ammo and anything else that i can legally own.

Once start chipping away that chipping never ends until it is all chipped away.

 

   You have the right to own a gun.  The Constitution does not specify what kind, how many, what type of ammo, etc.  

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yang is ahead of his time.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Are you under impression the President makes laws?  Why not talk to the people who could actually make some gun control laws?  Unless it is just a political statement with nothing to do with gun control.  

[marcusarelus]

49 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And like a lot of things you claim to know utterly false. The year with the most mass killings and injuries under Obama there were 206 victims. This year under Trump there are already 195. Last year there were 233. The year before that 712. And there a higher total of seprate incidents in both full years under Trump than in any year under Obama.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States#2013

Apart from that, your post is totally correct.

168 people killed in one domestic terrorist attack.  1995. Who cares what killed them the problem is one man can do it and they are dead.

[newnative]

13 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

This has been a topic of debate for many years in America.  Why did not Clinton or Obama those wonderful Presidents do anything about it?

NRA

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

This has been a topic of debate for many years in America.  Why did not Clinton or Obama those wonderful Presidents do anything about it?

 

Both Clinton and Obama DID do something on the issue, far more than any recent Republican president or Congress has done.

 

The only 10-year ban on new sales of certain assault weapons was signed into law by Clinton and was in place from 1994 to 2004 when it expired and was not renewed.

 

The only way it could get passed by Congress at the time over the objections mainly of NRA loving Republican lawmakers was with the 10-year sunset provision.  And when it came to Congress during Obama's presidency to reinstate the law, despite Obama and his administration's backing, it failed in the Senate, again, primarily because of Republican opposition.

 

And, by most neutral assessments, it was a very limited and pretty C**p law....but it was the best that could get mustered past Republican and NRA lobbying opposition.  And of course now with Trump and the current Republican controlled Senate, it's probably a dead issue still -- literally, as more and more Americans continue to die in mass shootings that are our version of domestic terrorism.

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, bendejo said:

It could be argued that a step in that direction is the universal basic income US candidate Yang proposes. 

On the other hand the US is leaving the business of exporting agricultural products and DT is giving the farmers billions to sustain them.  Is this the beginning of a derelict class?  Notice you hear of NO GOP hand-wringing about "where is the money coming from?" which is their usual outrage.  Even if he gets removed from the WH it's not like agricultural trade is going to return to what it was, at least not quickly.

So yeah, society needs less workers, so what to do with those people who aren't needed?

 

There is a sci-fi book called Beggars in Spain (lousy title, it involves neither of those things) by Nancy Kress.  (sci-fi as in Brave New World, as opposed to, say, Star Wars)  In the near future the socio-economic order in the US is you can decide not to work, and the gov't will support you sufficiently but not opulently, or you can chose an education and go on to have a profession, pursue business and wealth, up to you.  Those who do not work spend their days taking intoxicants  and screwing.  (sound like Pattaya?)

 

 

 

UBI's just a piece of the puzzle, as it won't really sustain anyone, but it can fill in a lot of gaps and the prudent could probably arrange some upward mobility. It's stabilizing as is Universal Healthcare. You can weather a bad break. You can't do that in the US these days, even if you're middle class. That keeps people on edge and off balance.  It's all worth a go IMO. If you come to it too late there's no saving anything.

 

I'll look for the book. Sounds like BNW in reverse where the Alphas were the pneumatic shaggers and Soma addicts and the Savages were the only ones with their wits about them.

Edited August 5, 2019 by lannarebirth

[usviphotography]

3 hours ago, Berkshire said:

This massacre is almost entirely about racism and white nationalism...as well as easy access to high powered assault rifles.

 

There's already photos of Crusius' home in Allen, Texas and it looks pretty darn opulent.  No, this guy wasn't from some poor family living in a trailor park.  While I agree that inequality in America is a huge problem and getting worse, it has nothing to do with this shooting. 

 

 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/04/el-paso-shooting-suspect-neighborhood/1916943001/

 

That is his parents home, not his home. He had no home of his own. He was living in the sort of nice house that was easily attainable on a the salary of father's middle class income (which would allow the mother to raise the kids) just a couple of decades ago but is now nothing but a pipe dream for most kids in his age bracket. So in that sense he had a far greater appreciation of how far America has fallen than some dirt poor kid in a trailer park who could only read about what America used to be like. 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

I am not American,but even i know there were far more mass shootings under"saint" Obhama.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

First of all, you misspelled his name. At least get that right. The rest is complete rubbish, a total lie and fabrication, and a deflection from truth. Ever heard of the concept of truth, honesty, or accuracy with regard to facts? Ever? And all Trump has to say, is "maybe something needs to be done".

 

• From 2009 to 2017, there were at least 173 mass shootings in the U.S.
• 2017 was the deadliest year on record for mass shootings. There were four times as many people shot in mass shootings in 2017 than the average of the eight years prior.
• In at least one-third of mass shootings, the shooter was legally prohibited from possessing firearms at the time of the shooting.
• In half of mass shootings, the shooter exhibited warning signs indicating that they posed a danger to themselves or others before the shooting.
• The majority of mass shootings were related to domestic or family violence. These incidents were responsible for 86 percent of mass shooting child fatalities.
• Mass shootings that involved the use of high-capacity magazines resulted in more than twice as many fatalities and 14 times as many injuries on average compared to those that did not.

 

It depends on how you make the calculations. If you are using number of people killed, 2017 was the highest on record.

 

https://everytownresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings-analysis/

 

The number of mass shootings across the U.S. so far in 2019 has outpaced the number of days this year, according to a gun violence research group. This puts 2019 on pace to be the first year since 2016 with an average of more than one mass shooting a day.

 

As of Sunday, which was the 216th day of the year, there have been 251 mass shootings in the U.S., according to data from the nonprofit Gun Violence Archive, which tracks every mass shooting in the country. The Gun Violence Archive defines a mass shooting as any incident in which at least four people were shot, excluding the shooter.

The toll of 251 mass shootings include five high-profile rampages in the past eight days, in which more than 100 people were shot.

 

And then 2018:

 

 

Some of the deadliest mass shootings in the US, occurred in 2018 - including the Parkland high school shooting and the massacre at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh -- prompted widespread national horror. News of other mass shootings, however, seemed to have only reached local audiences. There were a number of incidents where spouses or former spouses killed their partners, and sometimes their children, in Texas, Delaware, Tennessee, Maryland and California.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by spidermike007

[marcusarelus]

23 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

First of all, you misspelled his name. At least get that right. The rest is complete rubbish, a total lie and fabrication, and a deflection from truth. Ever heard of the concept of truth, honesty, or accuracy with regard to facts? Ever? And all Trump has to say, is "maybe something needs to be done".

 

• From 2009 to 2017, there were at least 173 mass shootings in the U.S.
• 2017 was the deadliest year on record for mass shootings. There were four times as many people shot in mass shootings in 2017 than the average of the eight years prior.
• In at least one-third of mass shootings, the shooter was legally prohibited from possessing firearms at the time of the shooting.
• In half of mass shootings, the shooter exhibited warning signs indicating that they posed a danger to themselves or others before the shooting.
• The majority of mass shootings were related to domestic or family violence. These incidents were responsible for 86 percent of mass shooting child fatalities.
• Mass shootings that involved the use of high-capacity magazines resulted in more than twice as many fatalities and 14 times as many injuries on average compared to those that did not.

 

It depends on how you make the calculations. If you are using number of people killed, 2017 was the highest on record.

 

https://everytownresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings-analysis/

 

The number of mass shootings across the U.S. so far in 2019 has outpaced the number of days this year, according to a gun violence research group. This puts 2019 on pace to be the first year since 2016 with an average of more than one mass shooting a day.

 

As of Sunday, which was the 216th day of the year, there have been 251 mass shootings in the U.S., according to data from the nonprofit Gun Violence Archive, which tracks every mass shooting in the country. The Gun Violence Archive defines a mass shooting as any incident in which at least four people were shot, excluding the shooter.

The toll of 251 mass shootings include five high-profile rampages in the past eight days, in which more than 100 people were shot.

 

And then 2018:

 

 

Some of the deadliest mass shootings in the US, occurred in 2018 - including the Parkland high school shooting and the massacre at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh -- prompted widespread national horror. News of other mass shootings, however, seemed to have only reached local audiences. There were a number of incidents where spouses or former spouses killed their partners, and sometimes their children, in Texas, Delaware, Tennessee, Maryland and California.

 

 

I think the mass shootings coincide with the FBI getting into politics and stopping crime fighting.  

 

Come on guys let the people elect Presidents and you try and stop domestic terrorism.  CIA stops international terrorism instead of toppling regimes you don't like.  

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I think the mass shootings coincide with the FBI getting into politics and stopping crime fighting.  

 

Come on guys let the people elect Presidents and you try and stop domestic terrorism.  CIA stops international terrorism instead of toppling regimes you don't like.  

Yes because most of the 35000 people who work for the FBI were working under Mueller.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

This has been a topic of debate for many years in America.  Why did not Clinton or Obama those wonderful Presidents do anything about it?

What's more, why, unlike Trump, didn't they instigate it? 

[usviphotography]

Wonder if all these Democrats are going to condemn themselves now that the political ideology of the Dayton Shooter has come out? Somehow I doubt it. 

[Krataiboy]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The killer’s manifesto makes it very clear his motives where political and aligned with the anti immigrant hate baiting coming out of Trump.

 

And here you are complaining about this being politicised.

Source, other than media speculation?

[Berkshire]

11 minutes ago, usviphotography said:

Wonder if all these Democrats are going to condemn themselves now that the political ideology of the Dayton Shooter has come out? Somehow I doubt it. 

If the Dayton shooter were to come out and say that he killed people because of free college tuition, medicare for all, gay rights, equal pay for women, ban on assault rifles, etc., then you might have a point.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Berkshire

[lannarebirth]

2 minutes ago, usviphotography said:

Wonder if all these Democrats are going to condemn themselves now that the political ideology of the Dayton Shooter has come out? Somehow I doubt it. 

Why would either of these shooter's party affiliation matter?  More relevant was that he was expelled from high school for making a "rape list" and a "murder list" of other students, yet he could stiil purchase a weapon. I don't know the demographics of Dayton or thenormal patrons of the bar he shot up but 7 of 9of those he murdered were black. Sounds like a high ratio to me.

[bristolboy]

19 minutes ago, usviphotography said:

Wonder if all these Democrats are going to condemn themselves now that the political ideology of the Dayton Shooter has come out? Somehow I doubt it. 

We know explicitly that the El Paso shooter cited right wing ideology as the reason for the shooting. Did the Dayton shooter give a reason for the shooting. We know that among the victims was his sister. That makes a political motive seem less likely.

[Thaifriends]

3 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

No wrong. The Swiss have 27.6 guns per 100 people and the US 120.5 per 100 people. The Swiss homicide rate is around 3 per 100,000 people, similar to Austria, less than Finland and nothing remotely like the US at 10.2. The "Swiss deflection" is a standard NRA line and utter BS. Try reading up on Swiss guns ownership, the Swiss have Army rifles at home because they have national military service, and remain reservists until their early 30s.  

 

" By the way majority of US jails are filled with blacks and Latinos." ............I can't avoid the feeling that it gives you some pleasure writing this. The fact is that if you go back to for example the 1930s, you would find that almost all the prison population in the UK were white males. What did they have in common with todays prison population in the UK and indeed the US. Answer they were mainly uneducated, poor people, who were committing crimes out of desperation. Claims of a causal link between ethnicity and crime (When other factors have been eliminated)  have been comprehensively debunked by social scientists.

Cant compare directly with numbers when the area of the US is far far larger then the tiny Swiss. I do not feel pleasure to write on blacks misery. They are responsible on their own situation and we are talking of 2019 not 1930, Sir.

[Chomper Higgot]

36 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Source, other than media speculation?

Read his manifesto. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Read his manifesto. 

 

 

Yes officials are already openly talking about treating this case as DOMESTIC TERRORISM so it sounds like they are already convinced it was his manifesto. Remember, he's alive and reports are that he is talking. If that was his manifesto, it's fair to assume he probably confirmed that already. 

 

These are death penalty charges.

 

The government of Mexico is saying they might want to extradite him as he also murdered Mexican nationals. I'm assuming that's just political posturing. How many times in how many countries can he be executed?

 

The current occupant of the white house is scheduled to speak on the two mass shooting events today. It will be interesting if he mentions domestic terrorism. I think we can bet the house he won't say white nationalist terrorism. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Jingthing

[Krataiboy]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Read his manifesto. 

 

 

Where can one find it?

 

[Thaifriends]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes officials are already opening talking about treating this case as DOMESTIC TERRORISM so it sounds like they are already convinced it was his manifesto. Remember, he's alive and reports are that he is talking. If that was his manifesto, it's fair to assume he probably confirmed that already. 

 

The current occupant of the white house is scheduled to speak on the two mass shooting events today. It will be interesting if he mentions domestic terrorism. I think we can bet the house he won't say white nationalist terrorism. 

Occupants of the white house, what a disgrace!

He won elections by dedication and noe he is Commander in Chief of the US

When Obama's clown were making jokes on Trump's face when he was not even nominated by the Republican's (if remember correctly) calling his hair like squirrel sitting on it etc etc. I said very openly that he will contest election now with full force, spend his own money and is likely to win also. Many laughed at me????

 

Now world is laughing on Clintons. ????

Edited August 5, 2019 by Thaifriends

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Thaifriends said:

Occupants of the white house, what a BS

He won elections by dedication and in Commander in Chief of the US

When Obama's clowns were making jokes on Trump's face when he was not even nominated by the Republican's (if remember correctly) calling his hair like squirrel sitting on it etc etc. I said very openly that he will contest election now with full force and is likely to win also. Many laughed at me????

You're right. He's usually not occupying the white house. He's usually golfing in Jersey or Florida. Thanks for the correction!

[wwest5829]

9 hours ago, daoyai said:

In sick desperation the democrat candidates and mainstream media attempt tp turn this into a political issue. The democratic core voters are smarter than that, the fringe radicals further alienate their core. Corey Booker is disgusting with his statements.  

Right... The US House of Representatives previously sent a bill to, at least, begin to address gun control. The US Senate majority has refused to assign the House Bill to a committee or bring it to a vote and you claim it's just political. For my country, it is a matter of national security. This my vehement opposition to The Donald and his supporting cast of characters.

[honu]

"President Donald Trump, who has stoked fear of immigrants, inflamed racial divisions, and excused the activities of white nationalists, has cut funding for, and in some cases wholly eliminated, initiatives begun under Barack Obama to counter violent extremism (known as “CVE”), including of the white-supremacist variety."

 

 https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/how-can-fbi-fight-far-right-extremism-ideology/595435/

 

Trump telling his like-minded racist supporters not to murder people seems unlikely to help, but directing the FBI to not consider a consistent pattern of deadly events as a threat is a big problem.  And of course you can still buy assault rifles in the US; it seems that will never change.

[Krataiboy]

Pinning the blame for El Paso on reckless rhetoric emanating from the present incumbent of the White House is a misguided, and ultimately fruitiless, exercise in political point-scoring.

 

The massacre, like others before it, is a ghastly and entirely predictable bi-product of the West’s ongoing irrational and destructive love affair with identity politics, a seed-bed for social division, polarisation and violence. 

 

As one of the few sane voices from the sidelines observes in a shrewd analysis of the latest terror attack: “This cynical rush to indict Trump as the inspirer-in-chief of mass murder might provide the cultural elite with a cheap political thrill.

 

"But it ignores the broader dynamics behind today’s racially paranoid violence. . .and the role the cultural elite itself may have played in nurturing a climate in which such despicable violence could emerge”. 

 

Read the full article here: 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/08/05/the-armed-wing-of-identity-politics/

 

 

 

 

[DoktorC]

17 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Pinning the blame for El Paso on reckless rhetoric emanating from the present incumbent of the White House is a misguided, and ultimately fruitiless, exercise in political point-scoring.

 

And you don't believe that trump is pandering to those very identitarianists (can't believe that is really a thing) that comprise a majority of his base.  trump is the swamp and we have every right and obligation to hold him accountable for his words and actions.  You say it is an ultimately frutiless [sic] exercise, I say you are wrong.  It is time trump is held accountable for his words, lies, and misdeeds.  It is not political point-scoring, it is resistance to traveling alongside him into the swamp.  The sooner we dump trump the better off we will be.  So let's start shooting some 3-pointers.

[usviphotography]

4 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Trump has not advocated directly that anyone be the victims of violent.  However, his words are inflamatory and racist. He refers to Immigrants as 'invaders'. 

 

 

Wrong. He calls ILLEGAL immigrants invaders, because by definition that is exactly what they are. And that is neither inflammatory nor racist. Indeed, people who say that it is are the problem here, not Trump, because they are fostering an environment of dishonesty, divisiveness, and hatred. As Trump pointed out in one of his latest Tweets, the media really needs to consider the effect the bile they are spewing out 24/7 month after month for going on two years now is having on the nation's psyche. 

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.   I don't think this has to do with universal basic income in Finland.   Stay on topic.  

 

[daoyai]

I think now is a good time for all those that are blaming the president for the shooting in El Paso to take a long hard look at why they think like they do.  So the El Paso shooter supports Trump yes, does that make Trump responsible?  If you answer yes then you must also believe that the Democrat / socialists are to blame for the Dayton Ohio murders as that killer was a Demo / socialist, "squad" Antifa supporter.  A member of a gun group called "The socialist rifles". 

 

 You didn't know those facts?  yea, it doesn't support the CNN. msnbc narrative so not reported but the takeaway is these sick minded individuals are outliers, fringe crazies and do not represent the sentiments of the base, core or majority of either party , the American people or even the NRA.