Scots favour independence from United Kingdom, Ashcroft poll shows

[jinners]

18 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Not my photo (I stole it from twitter user @lllllinda) but a shot of the lower end of the Royal Mile in Edinburgh yesterday - the largest march for independence ever seen in Scotland. Estimates of the number of marchers is unclear. I am not sure if I believe the 200k some are talking about, but one thing I am most certain about - independence is coming...

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Being half Scots I hope it does. Not because it will benefit Scotland (in my opinion and many others) but to stop the endless anti English sentiment heard as this is the real reason for wanting independence. Why else would Scotland wish to separate from its biggest trading partner and remain part of a working democratic institution (though the Brexit vote is testing this to the limit I agree) while at the same time busting its sporran to remain or be reelected to the failing undemocratic corrupt society that is the EU? None of the figures add up. The nationalism displayed by the SNP is dire. They are hopeless and a one trick pony as the current state of Scottish education and fiscal management show. 

See ya

[zorrow424]

As an Englishman I say yes to Scottish Independence   BIG YES YES YES,  Please do it

[Nigel Garvie]

40 minutes ago, jinners said:

Being half Scots I hope it does. Not because it will benefit Scotland (in my opinion and many others) but to stop the endless anti English sentiment heard as this is the real reason for wanting independence. Why else would Scotland wish to separate from its biggest trading partner and remain part of a working democratic institution (though the Brexit vote is testing this to the limit I agree) while at the same time busting its sporran to remain or be reelected to the failing undemocratic corrupt society that is the EU? None of the figures add up. The nationalism displayed by the SNP is dire. They are hopeless and a one trick pony as the current state of Scottish education and fiscal management show. 

See ya

I'm proud to say that my family and friends were on that march (I was moving a 1 ton lathe which had to be done that day). Please try to reach the basic understanding that it's the Scottish National Party not the Scottish Nationalism party. We want to be a separate Nation, unlike many in England we welcome foreigners. We are not Nationalistic - far from it. That you can post the above without irony stuns me. Try reading it this way:-

 

Why would England wish to separate from its biggest trading partner instead of remaining part of a working democratic institution (The EU).

The nationalism displayed by little Englanders is dire.

 

Why on earth would Scotland wish to remain in a failing undemocratic, and desperately corrupt society, awash with false news stories in the Daily Seig Heil et. al,  that the even to a child it is blindingly obvious,  that the UK has now become. None of the figures (or anything else for that matter) add up.

 

Please note I am not altering your quote (Forbidden) which is shown in full above, I am paraphrasing it, that's different.

 

 

[Nigel Garvie]

19 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Not my photo (I stole it from twitter user @lllllinda) but a shot of the lower end of the Royal Mile in Edinburgh yesterday - the largest march for independence ever seen in Scotland. Estimates of the number of marchers is unclear. I am not sure if I believe the 200k some are talking about, but one thing I am most certain about - independence is coming...

Sent from my SM-G975F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

According to calculations this march which had reached the Meadows before the tail end left Holyrood, could well have been 200K. The Scottish police resisted giving a figure though no doubt the Scottish Office (Westminsters reps in Edinburgh) would have pushed them to give a low one.

[RuamRudy]

Being half Scots I hope it does. Not because it will benefit Scotland (in my opinion and many others) but to stop the endless anti English sentiment heard as this is the real reason for wanting independence. Why else would Scotland wish to separate from its biggest trading partner and remain part of a working democratic institution (though the Brexit vote is testing this to the limit I agree) while at the same time busting its sporran to remain or be reelected to the failing undemocratic corrupt society that is the EU? None of the figures add up. The nationalism displayed by the SNP is dire. They are hopeless and a one trick pony as the current state of Scottish education and fiscal management show. 
See ya

Can you please give examples of the "endless anti English sentiment"? If it is as endless as you suggest, I can expect many varied, verifiable sources, I assume.

In terms of negative sentiment, you may wish to reconsider using phrases such as "bursting your sporran". Even you being 'half Scots' doesn't make it any less irritating.

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[RuamRudy]

As an Englishman I say yes to Scottish Independence   BIG YES YES YES,  Please do it

You could assist - there is a growing push for English independence, a very worthy cause, in my opinion.

My vision for the future is an island of mutually cooperative but independent countries which respect each others' differences but work together as equal partners to their mutual benefit.

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[RuamRudy]

Roll on the election - one further nail in the coffin of this disunited kingdom.

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by RuamRudy

[evadgib]

The quickest way for the Scots to leave the UK is for the entire Kingdom to be asked.

Edited October 29, 2019 by evadgib

[RuamRudy]

Just now, evadgib said:

The quickest way for the Scots to leave the UK is for the entire Kingdom to be asked.

Unfortunately no PM wants to be the one that lost the union - and no chancellor wants to deal with the aftermath of losing his northern cash cow.

[evadgib]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Unfortunately no PM wants to be the one that lost the union - and no chancellor wants to deal with the aftermath of losing his northern cash cow.

Ian Blackford was wrong-footed on politics live a few days ago RR. I can't recall the exact detail but it was along the lines of his intransigence towards BJ & brussels while doing the exact opposite between SNP & Westminster ????

[soalbundy]

I don't blame them.

[stuandjulie]

26 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Unfortunately no PM wants to be the one that lost the union - and no chancellor wants to deal with the aftermath of losing his northern cash cow.

Cash cow, how? Last I heard Scotland gets a lot more back than they contribute.

[MRToMRT]

As Scotland is currently running at a budget deficit of nearly 4 times the rest of the UK, I think it could be quite advantageous to split the union. They should keep the oil, the nuclear power stations, the ship yards and anything else thats in Scotland. They should have to create their own institutions and government administration unless they were willing to pay Whitehall for such services.

 

If I paid taxes in the UK though, I would think there should be no "deal", they look after themselves without any support from the rest of the "UK" taxpayers from the start. Indeed they could ask the EU to support them if needed.

 

If one part to the Union wants out they should be allowed to leave. Its their right to be a nation state if they so wish.

 

 

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, stuandjulie said:

Cash cow, how? Last I heard Scotland gets a lot more back than they contribute.

If Scotland is such a burden on the rest of the UK, why would the government keep such an ungrateful, restless bunch? The chances of Scotland helping the Tories into power is virtually nil so they would be far better off without us. 

[billd766]

On 8/11/2019 at 9:45 AM, Jip99 said:

 

 

I, for one, hope they go to the top of the list.

 

 

It would be hypocritical of me to want independence for the UK from the EU and not support independence for Scotland from the UK......... as long as the majority of Scottish nationals vote for it.

 

Can I just add a few words to your post?

 

As long as the majority of Scottish nationals (nationwide) vote for it, and not just the Scots actually living in Scotland.

[RuamRudy]

Just now, MRToMRT said:

As Scotland is currently running at a budget deficit of nearly 4 times the rest of the UK, I think it could be quite advantageous to split the union. They should keep the oil, the nuclear power stations, the ship yards and anything else thats in Scotland. They should have to create their own institutions and government administration unless they were willing to pay Whitehall for such services.

 

If I paid taxes in the UK though, I would think there should be no "deal", they look after themselves without any support from the rest of the "UK" taxpayers from the start. Indeed they could ask the EU to support them if needed.

 

If one part to the Union wants out they should be allowed to leave. Its their right to be a nation state if they so wish.

 

 

Scotland cannot legally run a deficit. Unfortunately you have swallowed this particularly nonsensical lie. What Scotland manages to do, very successfully, is to spend its allocated budget. As it has no borrowing powers, it has to balance the books - and it does that.

[RuamRudy]

29 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Ian Blackford was wrong-footed on politics live a few days ago RR. I can't recall the exact detail but it was along the lines of his intransigence towards BJ & brussels while doing the exact opposite between SNP & Westminster ????

He is a bumptious bore who likes the sound of his own voice far too much. I look forward to a higher quality of politicians emerging across all areas in the british isles - I think we are all very poorly served by most of the current crop.

[MRToMRT]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Scotland cannot legally run a deficit. Unfortunately you have swallowed this particularly nonsensical lie. What Scotland manages to do, very successfully, is to spend its allocated budget. As it has no borrowing powers, it has to balance the books - and it does that.

Semantics, so lets call it a notional deficit and agree it that it represents it spend versus its income (including the share of national incomes such as North Sea oil). 

 

Scotland's notional deficit is the highest of any country in the EU. In August its notional deficit was calculated at 12.6 billion pounds.

[RuamRudy]

Just now, MRToMRT said:

Semantics, so lets call it a notional deficit and agree it that it represents it spend versus its income (including the share of national incomes such as North Sea oil). 

 

Scotland's notional deficit is the highest of any country in the EU. In August its notional deficit was calculated at 12.6 billion pounds.

I disagree here too on both the spending and income parts. 

 

The income is wholly unclear as, for example, VAT is not calculated at a regional level but nationally, so the VAT collected from Scotland is not attributed to Scotland. Similarly, Scottish exports which depart English ports (as most actually do) are not attributed to Scotland but to the English region from which they departed the UK. 

 

On the expense part - the UK government allocates a budget to Scotland then also spends on behalf of Scotland without anyone in the Scottish Gov getting a say as to whether we want to pay for it. Much of it is attributed to impenetrable, Byzantine accounts, but some is quite transparent. Why Scotland is expected to pay over 8% of HS2, the Thames Crossrail project or the London sewer upgrades is beyond me, but those charges are allocated to Scotland. 

 

In fact, Scotland has 21% of the UK deficit attributed to it. England, meanwhile, owns 45% of the UK deficit. Think about that for a minute - England, with 10 times the population of Scotland, is apparently responsible for only a little over twice the deficit of Scotland.  I don't believe that for a second - but even if it was true, what a damning indictment for 300 years of the union.

 

But even if the above doesn't convince you, my earlier question surely makes you think? If Scotland is such a drain on the rest of the country, why does the Tory party not jettison us? After all, it is doubtful Scotland will ever return a majority of Tory MPs. 

 

But another question that makes it all seem a bit queer. How can Ireland, a country with relatively few natural resources, have a GDP 50% higher than Scotland? Putting aside bluster and pride, it simply doesn't make sense, does it?

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

Can I just add a few words to your post?

 

As long as the majority of Scottish nationals (nationwide) vote for it, and not just the Scots actually living in Scotland.

 

nationwide? get your spelling right - worldwide

 

[RuamRudy]

10 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

nationwide? get your spelling right - worldwide

 

I am genuinely curious as to why you think Scotland should remain in the UK? I am open about my reasons for wanting out - I believe that being in the UK is, and always has been, detrimental to Scotland and its people, but the only explanations I get from those who want it to remain in the union are wishy washy tales of some glorious past that never truly existed, or economic arguments that don't add up. 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

I am genuinely curious as to why you think Scotland should remain in the UK? I am open about my reasons for wanting out - I believe that being in the UK is, and always has been, detrimental to Scotland and its people, but the only explanations I get from those who want it to remain in the union are wishy washy tales of some glorious past that never truly existed, or economic arguments that don't add up. 

 

hmmm,

something has gone very wrong here, either with my writing or your understanding,

 

I do NOT think that Scotland should stay part of UK, and have never (to my knowledge) expressed so.

 

I am open to stay and open to leave, up to the Scottish to pick their future.

 

-----

If you should decide to exit UK it will be loads and loads of hard work and high costs awaiting you,

ain't no cheap and quick way to establish a sovereign state in Europe.

 

Joke;

look at UK and leaving EU, should be simpler than Scotland leaving UK, but the pommies just

cannot "performing-intercourse" do it, frightening if you ask me,

but an encouragement for you to get away from the drunken Westminster zoo

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by melvinmelvin

[roger buttmore]

As an Englishman, may I request that the Scots please firmly bolt the portcullis closed at Hadrian's Wall. We will we reciprocate on our side.

 

We can squabble over the exact border at a later date.

 

Please confirm Nicola Sturgeon is on your side.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

nationwide? get your spelling right - worldwide

 

The problem with worldwide is the Scots, like the rest of the UK overseas citizens are in a bit of a pickle with the 15 year voting rules.

 

IMHO anyone who lives offshore from the UK should get similar benefits to UK based citizens, especially if you are still paying income tax on your pensions.

 

To go forward with that point of view, is that how could the Scottish government find out exactly how many Scots live out of the UK without asking for assistance from the UK government and putting themselves in a position where they may lose Indyref2.

 

I don't want to go through Indyref1 being a once in a lifetime vote, in case I get accused of nit picking. but that is how it was described by the First Minister at the time (one Alex Salmond) 

 

They lowered the voting age down to 16 (what 16 year old knows their own mind?) but barred Scots people living outside Scotland from voting.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

hmmm,

something has gone very wrong here, either with my writing or your understanding,

 

I do NOT think that Scotland should stay part of UK, and have never (to my knowledge) expressed so.

 

I am open to stay and open to leave, up to the Scottish to pick their future.

 

-----

If you should decide to exit UK it will be loads and loads of hard work and high costs awaiting you,

ain't no cheap and quick way to establish a sovereign state in Europe.

 

Joke;

look at UK and leaving EU, should be simpler than Scotland leaving UK, but the pommies just

cannot "performing-intercourse" do it, frightening if you ask me,

but an encouragement for you to get away from the drunken Westminster zoo

 

 

Apologies for my misinterpretation.

 

One of Scotland's greatest contemporary writers and artists, Alasdair Gray, once suggested that one should, "work as if you live in the early days of a better nation." Hopefully we get the chance to do so soon.

[elliss]

On 9/12/2019 at 8:11 PM, sunnyboy2018 said:

Do you think the Frogs would welcome a bunch of Sweaties with their anti catholic sectarian bigotry? 'A scotsman walks into a bar...every body leaves..

 

           Not if the Scotsman is buying the drinks . 555

           

            

Edited October 29, 2019 by elliss
spelling

[gk10002000]

Good luck with the Scottish Pound as an internationally accepted currency.  I had a little desk top "trophy" souvenir thing that was a special issue celebrating Jack Nicklaus and his Open wins.  It had a real Scottish note inside.  5 pound note I think it was. I tried to get it out of the laminated plastic blocks it was between.  I got the blocks separated but pretty much destroyed the note in the process.  I did not lose much sleep over it.

[Rookiescot]

58 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Good luck with the Scottish Pound as an internationally accepted currency.  I had a little desk top "trophy" souvenir thing that was a special issue celebrating Jack Nicklaus and his Open wins.  It had a real Scottish note inside.  5 pound note I think it was. I tried to get it out of the laminated plastic blocks it was between.  I got the blocks separated but pretty much destroyed the note in the process.  I did not lose much sleep over it.

Shame really.

It would have looked nice sitting next to one of the Brexit 50 pence pieces. 

[gk10002000]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

Shame really.

It would have looked nice sitting next to one of the Brexit 50 pence pieces. 

yeah.  It was pretty.  More sentimental than anything else. 

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

The problem with worldwide is the Scots, like the rest of the UK overseas citizens are in a bit of a pickle with the 15 year voting rules.

 

IMHO anyone who lives offshore from the UK should get similar benefits to UK based citizens, especially if you are still paying income tax on your pensions.

 

To go forward with that point of view, is that how could the Scottish government find out exactly how many Scots live out of the UK without asking for assistance from the UK government and putting themselves in a position where they may lose Indyref2.

 

I don't want to go through Indyref1 being a once in a lifetime vote, in case I get accused of nit picking. but that is how it was described by the First Minister at the time (one Alex Salmond) 

 

They lowered the voting age down to 16 (what 16 year old knows their own mind?) but barred Scots people living outside Scotland from voting.

Do you really think that the GFA would have been signed if referendums were considered as "once in a lifetime" Bill

It is a turn of phrase, JC has just described the impending GE as "once in a lifetime".

Regional referendums come under different criteria to national referendums which are subject to PPERA. The UK is the only Union in the world that has referendums across member nations.

 

The UK is a Union within a Union, the UK did not have to ask the EU for permission to hold a referendum so why should Scotland have to ask Westminster?