Sent back to lao

[bigginhill]

6 hours ago, dbrenn said:

Interesting. 8 rejected per day.

 

15,978,892 international passengers passed through Don Meuang in 2018. Let's say that half (7.95 million) of these were arrivals. At 8 rejections per day, the rejection rate is 0.036% or 1 person in every 2,722 arrivals. Just 1 person in every 8 plane loads or thereabouts...  

 

Seems like the vast majority have nothing to worry about. Only a tiny fraction are getting refused entry.

 

 

Is that the numbers of passengers coming off international flights? If so would it include Thais traveling back to Thailand or foreigners arriving.?

[tlandtday]

18 hours ago, stigar said:

Ur rigth.Dont blame IMM3 if ur not a genuine tourist.I been to thailand 63 times.NEVER EVER any problems in the airport or at chong chom.(surin)Many change their names etc and think their smart.

My experience is that the immigration is polite and if they asking me something im allways honest.

I speak thai wery well.Sometimes they ask why im coming,and i use to say "ma ha gig"(come see my mistress)and they as how many "gig"i have..i say 20-30.. then they laughing and telling other counters what im saying.I have nothing to hide.Many complain,but its a reason why IMM3 do as they doing.

report back to us in a couple years and tell us how it is going... you may just be lucky....

[YuryBalyasnikov]

6 hours ago, lkv said:

Yep. And it also applies to:

-Denials of ED Visas at HCMC because the letters from schools combine the beginner and intermediate level

 

You have no idea how useful this was for me. Thank you very much! 

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, dbrenn said:

It could be that Thailand only welcomes foreign resident taxpayers these days

It should be noted that this is almost a 180 degree turnaround from the situation a couple of decades ago when Thailand welcomed all visitors with money to support themselves, except those they viewed as competing with Thais for jobs.

[dbrenn]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

It should be noted that this is almost a 180 degree turnaround from the situation a couple of decades ago when Thailand welcomed all visitors with money to support themselves, except those they viewed as competing with Thais for jobs.

Not really. The work permit system hasn't changed all that much since the 90's from my experience, in that western foreigners have always been excluded from low paying jobs in occupations filled by rank and file Thais.

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by dbrenn

[dbrenn]

7 hours ago, lkv said:

So the moral is, I guess, Thailand is greedy, wants more money, but does not offer more in return

I agree. But most countries in the position to pick and choose who lives there favour those who have money or skills, and who pay income tax. The western world is very much like that.

 

Thailand can pick and choose these days, so it seems, and can't be bothered dealing with people who can only just scrape by, or who circumvent the rules governing residency by posing as tourists.

 

It's getting harder everywhere, unfortunately, but at least Thailand offers Elite visas - people here who can clear this financial hurdle seem to complain a lot less, living the hassle free lives as they do. 

Edited August 10, 2019 by dbrenn

[ThomasThBKK]

18 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

I agree. But most countries in the position to pick and choose who lives there favour those who have money or skills, and who pay income tax. The western world is very much like that.

 

Thailand can pick and choose these days, so it seems, and can't be bothered dealing with people who can only just scrape by, or who circumvent the rules governing residency by posing as tourists.

 

It's getting harder everywhere, unfortunately, but at least Thailand offers Elite visas - people here who can clear this financial hurdle seem to complain a lot less, living the hassle free lives as they do. 

 

But thailand doesn't favor people with money, there's no way to get a passport or pr via investment unlike in real countries. You could be a billionaire and would be still stuck doing tm30 bs.

You could have all money in the world and still zero rights to own land here. 

 

Xenophobia beats greed here it seems. It's an extremely business unfriendly country and even big multi national companies know that. 

 

Thai elite barely makes any money for them, selling passports for half a million USD like western countries would... But they refuse to take that money, why? 

[dbrenn]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

But they refuse to take that money, why?

I suppose that Thailand values payment of income tax more than personal riches. All the easy ways to gain residency and citizenship seem to be dependent upon payment of income tax, in my experience of having been all the way through the visa system. Over the years I've had visa exempt, tourist visas, non ED, non O, non B, PR and finally citizenship.

 

Income tax payments were the key to progressing through the system. Aside from Elite, it's all they care about IMHO.

 

Incidentally, I'm now working in Australia, having first come here on a skilled migrant visa, and unless you're seriously minted income tax is all the government here really cares about too. Governments favour people who pay lots of tax, and pay it regularly. 

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by dbrenn

[ThomasThBKK]

I suppose that Thailand values payment of income tax more than personal riches. All the easy ways to gain residency and citizenship seem to be dependent upon payment of income tax, in my experience of having been all the way through the visa system. Over the years I've had visa exempt, tourist visas, non ED, non O, non B, PR and finally citizenship.
 
Income tax payments were the key to progressing through the system. Aside from Elite, it's all they care about IMHO.
 
Incidentally, I'm now working in Australia, having first come here on a skilled migrant visa, and unless you're seriously minted income tax is all the government here really cares about too. Governments like people who pay lots of tax, and pay it regularly. 
 

I pay income tax on the money i transfer here which my offshore company earns in the same calender year, i pay tax on dividends and co on all the shares in thai companies i own. I pay income tax on all rental properties we have in thailand. I pay taxes whenever we buy/sell properties.... In short, i pay a fuckton of taxes, more than many others.

I am on an elite visa, being a thai tax residence.

I can't get a PR even tho i am way over the tax amount because no work permit, no one my income is "active" in thailand. I am simply an investor.

This is arbitrarily done to limit people from getting a PR, sole reason being that they don't want to give PRs out.

There's no valid reason why one would need to have a work permit in a low income third world country to be able to apply for a PR. Not beeing able to get a work permit on retirement and elite visas is also clearly be done to limit PR applications.

In singapore, uae/dubai etc i can just go the investment route which i did and that's why those countries have way more of my money than thailand will ever have.


You could be bill gates here on a retirement visa and not be eligible for a PR ever.

That's just dumb and keeps money out of thailand. Thailand is out of touch with reality, they want money inflow but they aren't willing to give anything in return.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, a concept no one here understands.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[timendres]

29 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

You could be bill gates here on a retirement visa and not be eligible for a PR ever.

That's just dumb and keeps money out of thailand. Thailand is out of touch with reality, they want money inflow but they aren't willing to give anything in return.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, a concept no one here understands.

And, yet, people keep pouring in...

When your product is in high demand, you get to set the price you like.

[lkv]

1 minute ago, timendres said:

And, yet, people keep pouring in...

Well you see, if you were to believe TAT (that has been caught red handed fabricating numbers many times in the past), one could believe that.

 

However, they are now proposing visa free entry for Chinese and Indian nationals.

 

So the reality (which only they know), might not be as rosy as being described.

[ThomasThBKK]

16 minutes ago, timendres said:

And, yet, people keep pouring in...

When your product is in high demand, you get to set the price you like.

Investors certainly aren't. 

 

Sure bunch of indians dying to try thai pussy  and selling fake rolex are. 

 

High demand my ass, if it was i  high demand they would sell more elite visas but they barely have 6000 members or so? ???? 

 

 

[balo]

How old are you Henrik?  Maybe better to get a visa based on marriage/retirement.  Any other types of visas , unless you can afford the Elite visa, will not work for long stayers. 

[dbrenn]

3 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

i pay tax on

Indeed. I pay VAT on goods and services, I pay departure tax on airline tickets, and I pay excise duty on every beer that I drink. We all pay lots of different taxes on all kinds of different things. It's a fact of life. 

 

It's just my observation having lived in Thailand for years: personal income tax is all that is taken into consideration from an immigration perspective. Nothing else matters. 

 

I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, it's just how it is, and not just in Thailand either. Governments value regular tax payments that are deducted from monthly salaries. It makes budgeting easier. 

Edited August 10, 2019 by dbrenn

[ericthai]

13 hours ago, Matzzon said:

No, and they started to inform about that 2014. Strange that so many people not understand that yet. Guess it takes a while before baht falls down.

Actually the changes started back around 2004 and has been evolving ever since.

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, dbrenn said:

Indeed. I pay VAT on goods and services, I pay departure tax on airline tickets, and I pay excise duty on every beer that I drink. We all pay lots of different taxes on all kinds of different things. It's a fact of life. 

 

It's just my observation having lived in Thailand for years: personal income tax is all that is taken into consideration from an immigration perspective. Nothing else matters. 

 

I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, it's just how it is, and not just in Thailand either. Governments value regular tax payments that are deducted from monthly salaries. It makes budgeting easier. 

 

You don't understand. 

 

I pay personal income tax far above the treshold. It has nothing to do with getting a PR. Paying personal income tax is absolutely irrelevant, i know investors with hundreds of condos without having a work permit. They simply hire an agency to do the work. They all pay way more income tax then most people who got a PR. 

 

None of them are eligable to PR. 

It's impossible to get one without beeing a slave for a thai company. It's all about the work permit. 

 

And obviously arbitrary thing they made up to get rid of PR applications, not a single wealthy guy will bother working for a crap company here to get a PR. 

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, ericthai said:

Actually the changes started back around 2004 and has been evolving ever since.

Yes, you could say that too, but I am referring to the more strict and hands on, with ban for overstay and the maximum of two land border crossings and so on.

However, we can say 2004. Even more terrible that people not got it yet.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Matzzon

[dbrenn]

28 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

You don't understand. 

 

I pay personal income tax far above the treshold. It has nothing to do with getting a PR. Paying personal income tax is absolutely irrelevant, i know investors with hundreds of condos without having a work permit. They simply hire an agency to do the work. They all pay way more income tax then most people who got a PR. 

 

None of them are eligible to PR. 

It's impossible to get one without being a slave for a thai company. It's all about the work permit. 

 

And obviously arbitrary thing they made up to get rid of PR applications, not a single wealthy guy will bother working for a crap company here to get a PR. 

I did time as a slave for a Thai company - my own. It's how I got established and it led to a more secure life. I went to great pains and expense to set up a company and get a work permit, following all the intricate rules and regulations, with a view to staying here permanently - and as a result of all that pain I'm now a Thai citizen, and am completely free to do whatever I want. You obviously didn't bother doing anything of that sort, taking the easy way, and whatever tax you say you've paid you did so without a company or work permit: it doesn't count, and you know that it doesn't count, so it's pointless to bleat about injustices having taken the easy way out.

 

You can't blame Thailand, or anywhere else, for having no interest in you if you don't do the hard yards and comply with whatever rules you have to follow to gain immigration status - it's not difficult to understand if you think about it.

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by dbrenn

[FritsSikkink]

10 hours ago, BritTim said:

It should be noted that this is almost a 180 degree turnaround from the situation a couple of decades ago when Thailand welcomed all visitors with money to support themselves, except those they viewed as competing with Thais for jobs.

Maybe because they are getting fed up with all the "tourist" who are actually people living here on a sort of permanent basis without the proper visa / work permit/ and are not paying their taxes.

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, dbrenn said:

I did time as a slave for a Thai company - my own. It's how I got established and it led to a more secure life. I went to great pains and expense to set up a company and get a work permit, following all the intricate rules and regulations, with a view to staying here permanently - and as a result of all that pain I'm now a Thai citizen, and am completely free to do whatever I want. You obviously didn't bother doing anything of that sort, taking the easy way, and whatever tax you say you've paid you did so without a company or work permit: it doesn't count, and you know that it doesn't count, so it's pointless to bleat about injustices having taken the easy way out.

 

You can't blame Thailand, or anywhere else, for having no interest in you if you don't do the hard yards and comply with whatever rules you have to follow to gain immigration status - it's not difficult to understand if you think about it.

 

 

 

You are too narrowminded to get it. I don't need a work permit to pay income taxes here, i have enough investments to be way over the treshold. In short i prolly pay way more taxes than you do. 

 

I could setup a fake company with fake thai employers too, just hire myself, my maid and her kids - that's exactly the bs thailand encourages. 

 

Instead of that i hired a local RE broker, that does legit work without proxy employes and paid for an Elite Visa. So spare me the bs that thailand benefits more from people like you. And just so you know, they decline foreigners that apply for PR and own their own company left and right currently - that loophole is pretty much gone. 

 

And that's also exactly why no one takes thailand serious, and every investor type of visa is not more than a joke here. 

 

Great for countries with a brain tho, Singapore, Malaysia and co are taking that benefit instead. 

[lkv]

11 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Maybe because they are getting fed up with all the "tourist" who are actually people living here on a sort of permanent basis without the proper visa / work permit/ and are not paying their taxes.

Or the long term visitors over 50 years of age, that only pay 1,900 baht for a whole year, and are not concerned about having local insurance ????

[timendres]

6 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Investors certainly aren't. 

Not sure how "investors" apply to this conversation.

6 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Sure bunch of indians dying to try thai pussy  and selling fake rolex are. 

 

High demand my ass, if it was i  high demand they would sell more elite visas but they barely have 6000 members or so? ???? 

Judging from the queues at Chaeng Watthana for extensions and 90 day reports, there appears to be no shortage of demand. Indians do not appear to dominate those queues.

[ThomasThBKK]

15 minutes ago, timendres said:

Not sure how "investors" apply to this conversation.

Judging from the queues at Chaeng Watthana for extensions and 90 day reports, there appears to be no shortage of demand. Indians do not appear to dominate those queues.

It was said that thailand favors those with money, which is bs as they don't have a fitting investment visa/pr/citizenship category. That's why i mentioned investors. 

 

Most with serious dough will not queue all day at CW immigration for a useless 90 day report or tm30 - they are just annoyed by this bs. 

 

For the 10 mio THB investment visa here you have to proof every year again that you still own the property, how convenient. 

 

For the same price you get a golden visa aka permanent residency (takes 3 months) in Greece, Portugal, Spain and a passport after a few years AND you can resell your property after the holding period of mostly 5 years expired. In turkey you get a passport for 250k USD and can sell your property after 3 years. 

 

 

What i am saying is people with money get extremely little value in Thailand and have absolutely no motivation to spend it here. 

 

I couldn't care less about this, but it's my opinion if Thailand wants to attract the more affluent clientele they have to start offering them something that makes it worth it for them and that starts wkth giving those guys actual rights here. 

 

You can't take someone's money and treat them like second class, people aren't stupid. 

[tlandtday]

1 minute ago, ThomasThBKK said:

It was said that thailand favors those with money, which is bs as they don't have a fitting investment visa/pr/citizenship category. That's why i mentioned investors. 

 

Most with serious dough will not queue all day at CW immigration for a useless 90 day report or tm30 - they are just annoyed by this bs. 

 

For the 10 mio THB investment visa here you have to proof every year again that you still own the property, how convenient. 

 

For the same price you get a golden visa aka permanent residency (takes 3 months) in Greece, Portugal, Spain and a passport after a few years AND you can resell your property after the holding period of mostly 5 years expired. In turkey you get a passport for 250k USD and can sell your property after 3 years. 

 

 

What i am saying is people with money get extremely little value in Thailand and have absolutely no motivation to spend it here. 

 

I couldn't care less about this, but it's my opinion if Thailand wants to attract the more affluent clientele they have to start offering them something that makes it worth it for them and that starts wkth giving those guys actual rights here. 

 

You can't take someone's money and treat them like second class, people aren't stupid. 

It works a bit differently here.  First they don't want to grant anyone "permanent visas" that's why everyone is on a extension visa.  But don't kid yourself they do want your money they just don't want you.

[elliss]

On 8/9/2019 at 8:06 PM, Henrik Andersen said:

I had do nothing wrong and here you can read what rules people can follow 

To people there think I wrong just wait meaby you next on there list that is not about money anymore but numbers they can show government this is not about good guys in bad guys out anymore 

 

 

 30 days visa excempt , two times a year , 60 days in total . 

 

[ThomasThBKK]

5 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

It works a bit differently here.  First they don't want to grant anyone "permanent visas" that's why everyone is on a extension visa.  But don't kid yourself they do want your money they just don't want you.

Yes, that's what i am saying.

It's apparent as they require work permits that they refuse to give out to retirees and elite visa holders to apply for PR. 

 

Just because a small minority waa able to fullfill their bs rules doesn't mean they are wantes here. 

[dbrenn]

8 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

You are too narrowminded to get it. I don't need a work permit to pay income taxes here, i have enough investments to be way over the treshold. In short i prolly pay way more taxes than you do. 

 

I could setup a fake company with fake thai employers too, just hire myself, my maid and her kids - that's exactly the bs thailand encourages. 

 

Instead of that i hired a local RE broker, that does legit work without proxy employes and paid for an Elite Visa. So spare me the bs that thailand benefits more from people like you. And just so you know, they decline foreigners that apply for PR and own their own company left and right currently - that loophole is pretty much gone. 

 

And that's also exactly why no one takes thailand serious, and every investor type of visa is not more than a joke here. 

 

Great for countries with a brain tho, Singapore, Malaysia and co are taking that benefit instead. 

It sounds like you had the opportunity to go through the proper channels, and chose not to for reasons of convenience, now you're complaining and droning on about injustices. Don't blame Thailand if you can't be bothered following the rules to get immigration status - lots of people here jumped through the hoops of PR and citizenship, and certainly didn't regret it. If Malaysia, etc, is easier that brainless Thailand, then why not pack up your things and go over there? Thailand doesn't see to be short of people willing to follow the rules to stay, and moaners like you give us all a bad name ????

 

People 'with investments' can pay voluntarily pay income taxes, if they declare it, but who cares? The government obviously prefers income tax that is withheld from a monthly salary, and rewards those who do it - perhaps because taxes collected using this method are paid regularly and are easy to collect. Perhaps the government thinks that investors have a reputation for dodging taxes, and doesn't think that they are a reliable source of income. Who knows? Laws the world over are often illogical, and Thailand is no exception, but there are avenues open to those who try. Whining won't get you anywhere.

 

Follow the rules, and you'll be able to make progress. Take the easy way out and you'll be stuck on temporary visas complaining.

Edited August 11, 2019 by dbrenn

[dbrenn]

6 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Most with serious dough will not queue all day at CW immigration for a useless 90 day report or tm30 - they are just annoyed by this bs

Elite visa holders don't have to 'queue all day at CW immigration for a useless 90 day report', so please don't exaggerate. 

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by dbrenn

[dbrenn]

6 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

It's apparent as they require work permits that they refuse to give out to retirees and elite visa holders to apply for PR.

Most Elite visa holders on this forum seem to be very happy with the scheme, which allows them unfettered access, coming and going as they please for extended periods of time.

 

Expecting that a 500k Elite visa will also give you a path to PR or citizenship is 'prolly' asking a but too much.

[ThomasThBKK]

49 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

It sounds like you had the opportunity to go through the proper channels, and chose not to for reasons of convenience, now you're complaining and droning on about injustices. Don't blame Thailand if you can't be bothered following the rules to get immigration status - lots of people here jumped through the hoops of PR and citizenship, and certainly didn't regret it. If Malaysia, etc, is easier that brainless Thailand, then why not pack up your things and go over there? Thailand doesn't see to be short of people willing to follow the rules to stay, and moaners like you give us all a bad name ????

 

People 'with investments' can pay voluntarily pay income taxes, if they declare it, but who cares? The government obviously prefers income tax that is withheld from a monthly salary, and rewards those who do it - perhaps because taxes collected using this method are paid regularly and are easy to collect. Perhaps the government thinks that investors have a reputation for dodging taxes, and doesn't think that they are a reliable source of income. Who knows? Laws the world over are often illogical, and Thailand is no exception, but there are avenues open to those who try. Whining won't get you anywhere.

 

Follow the rules, and you'll be able to make progress. Take the easy way out and you'll be stuck on temporary visas complaining.

My channel is the proper one. 

It would have been at least ethically wrong to setup one of these fake companies with 49% ownership to fullfill some arbitrary thai fetish. 

 

 

People cannot voluntarily declare income and pay taxes, that's absolute bs. 

Everyone who earns money from within thailand (rental income, dividends) has to pay income tax on that. 

 

Safe to say tou don't seem to understand much about all this. 

I am not complaining about thailand, i am debunking the rubbish you wrote and claimed which is clearly untrue. Thailand doesn't care about your taxes, your family or anything like that. They just signed a bunch of conventions and can not completely close their whole PR process. 

 

44 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Elite visa holders don't have to 'queue all day at CW immigration for a useless 90 day report', so please don't exaggerate. 

 

 

That's what i said, learn to read. 

However many elite holdera DO HAVE to make their 90 day reports and tm30 reports themselves. 

All elite does is bring ur paasport to CW, CNX ans Phuket immi after u brought it to their remote offices, a quite useleas service as u have to go there twice. 

 

15 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Most Elite visa holders on this forum seem to be very happy with the scheme, which allows them unfettered access, coming and going as they please for extended periods of time.

 

Expecting that a 500k Elite visa will also give you a path to PR or citizenship is 'prolly' asking a but too much.

No we aren't. We are quite annoyed by the bs going here regarding tm30 and co. 

So in fact it doesn't allow us unlimited access, it's a glorified touri visa many had to get as thailand refuses to give out business visas to many people. 

 

 

Also i didn't say i expect a PR for lousy 15k USD, stop making stuff up. The only one with a license to make stuff up is the government. 

In a reql country you don't need to buy your path to PR and the rules are clear. Here it's just gambling and they can and will easily decline you. I know many people that got declined the last years in bangkok for no reason. The whole process is bs.