Land ownership questions

[NorthernRyland]

My Dad just told me something regarding land ownership which I believe is false. Recently he changed his properties name from his Thai wife to his wife's daughter. The reason he gave was an apparent new law which says that BOTH foreigners and their Thai spouses can no longer own land if married. That sounds pretty crazy to me and I suspect is a lie. Even the new military government doesn't seem that punitive.

 

Just to be clear what are the current options for land ownership in Thailand? These are what I'm aware of:

 

1) Buy land through a Thai national (such as wife)

2) Long term lease - but can you build/sell the properties or merely own existing structures?

3) An amnesty agreement for US citizens that allows the outright purchase or no more than 1 rai.

 

 

 

 

[elviajero]

12 minutes ago, genericptr said:

The reason he gave was an apparent new law which says that BOTH foreigners and their Thai spouses can no longer own land if married.

If you mean that a Thai woman can’t own land if she’s married to a foreigner; that is not true.

[elliss]

 

Foreigner, can buy land in Thailand , but can not own the land.

   That said many do buy land...

Edited August 8, 2019 by elliss

[HampiK]

This is an older news, as a few years back this really was a problem for Thai ladies. If they married with foreigners they were not able to hold land. But this changed. I not sure how many years ago already. Now it's no problem anymore

[amykat]

I believe you want to say, that was a few decades back, not a few years, at a minimum.  It has never been in effect since I moved here, 15 years ago, and I was hearing back then, of this very OLD law.  There are people who know the actual date and I have seen it, but forget now, it might be the 1970s or 80s.

 

 To the OP ....some kind of contracts your Dad might want to do to protect himself, won’t hold up if they are between a married couple.  Therefore if he puts the house in someone else’s name, then makes those same kind of contracts, they would hold up, and that could be the reason.  

[bluebluewater]

US citizens cannot own the one rai of land that you suggest.  There is a Treaty of Amity that offers certain opportunities that other nations do not have but specifically prohibited (among other things also denied)  is the owning of land.

[KhaoYai]

As has been said, that's not a new law, its an old law that was repealed several years ago.

 

New Military government? There were elections in March.  Officially the country has now returned to democractic rule although:

 

a). Thailand has never had a true democracy.

b). The military stitched the Thai people up in a change to the constitution which means that in fact, they will always stay in charge.

 

House ownership:

 

1. Thai wife - yes and there are several ways of protecting that investment. Perhaps the safest (and the least likely she will agree to) is to take a mortgage out over the property. You would need to check with the local land office first though, as some don't accept registration of foreign mortgages.  If granted, as with mortgages in most countries, the mortgagor cannot sell the property without paying off the 'loan'.

 

2. You can lease land, if you want to build on it you would be better off with a Usufruct agreement which gives you full rights to 'enjoy' the property, including build on it unless specifically excluded. You can legally own the structures built on the land - just not the land. I believe that also gives you the right to sell the structures but the new owners would have to take out new Usufructs on the land - worthless without one.

 

3. I have heard of this and seen comments saying that its there in law but nobody's ever done it. I believe you mean 'amnity' - others will be best placed to answer that.

[NorthernRyland]

Thanks guys that clears things up. As for the "Treaty of Amity" (not what a wrongly wrote) I was always very suspicious of it so that's interesting no one has ever heard of this actually happening.

 

So my Dad is woefully misinformed about the law and I'm curious what the consequences of having the land in his wife's daughters name will be. It's only 5 rai bought for 400k so it really doesn't matter long term.

 

Sounds like leasing is a pretty good option. Why would you own through marriage instead of a lease?

[observer90210]

Foreigners need to be sensible, don't buy any property in Thailand.

 

If the farang developper does not cheat you, somebody else along the food chain will try to scam you at one point.

 

Just as with ladies in Thailand, don't buy....rent !!!

[Time Traveller]

3 hours ago, genericptr said:

Just to be clear what are the current options for land ownership in Thailand? These are what I'm aware of:

 

1) Buy land through a Thai national (such as wife)

2) Long term lease - but can you build/sell the properties or merely own existing structures?

3) An amnesty agreement for US citizens that allows the outright purchase or no more than 1 rai.

 

1. Using thai nominees is Illegal. But wives can use their own money to buy land. 

2. Fine and can use the land for whatever purpose the owner allows under the lease.

3. Nothing of the sort, no special privileges for Americans. However foreigners can legally own up to 1 rai of land in designated areas under BOI promotion provided the amount invested in thailand is at least 40 million baht

Edited August 8, 2019 by Time Traveller

[elviajero]

10 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

1. Using thai nominees is Illegal. But wives can use their own money to buy land. 

There is no law against a wife using money obtained through marriage to buy land.

[Time Traveller]

9 minutes ago, elviajero said:

There is no law against a wife using money obtained through marriage to buy land.

There is indeed a law about foreigners using nominees to acquire land. Courts decide whether this is the intent or not.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Time Traveller

[elviajero]

7 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

There is indeed a law about foreigners using nominees to acquire land. Courts decide whether this is the intent or not.

You said "but wives can use their own money to buy land". That implies my wife cannot use money I have brought to the marriage, which is wrong.

[UKresonant]

You can just sign a document at the land office stating the land & property is not part of the marriage, and you have no interest in it! Avoids any problems......

[NorthernRyland]

2 hours ago, observer90210 said:

Foreigners need to be sensible, don't buy any property in Thailand.

 

totally agree but I want to build a little house on the mountain. ????

[sunnyboy2018]

4 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

As has been said, that's not a new law, its an old law that was repealed several years ago.

 

New Military government? There were elections in March.  Officially the country has now returned to democractic rule although:

 

a). Thailand has never had a true democracy.

b). The military stitched the Thai people up in a change to the constitution which means that in fact, they will always stay in charge.

 

House ownership:

 

1. Thai wife - yes and there are several ways of protecting that investment. Perhaps the safest (and the least likely she will agree to) is to take a mortgage out over the property. You would need to check with the local land office first though, as some don't accept registration of foreign mortgages.  If granted, as with mortgages in most countries, the mortgagor cannot sell the property without paying off the 'loan'.

 

2. You can lease land, if you want to build on it you would be better off with a Usufruct agreement which gives you full rights to 'enjoy' the property, including build on it unless specifically excluded. You can legally own the structures built on the land - just not the land. I believe that also gives you the right to sell the structures but the new owners would have to take out new Usufructs on the land - worthless without one.

 

3. I have heard of this and seen comments saying that its there in law but nobody's ever done it. I believe you mean 'amnity' - others will be best placed to answer that.

It has had a truer democracy than the current stitch up. Unpalatable as it is the two Thaxin administrations were democracies 

IE. The majority of the people elected them.

[BritTim]

In fact, there were once laws that forbade Thai wives of foreigners from owning land. The law was changed by a Ministry of Interior Regulation published in 1999. For all the gritty details of land ownership by Thai spouses of foreigners, see https://www.samuiforsale.com/knowledge/land-ownership-and-thai-spouse.html

[Joe Mcseismic]

3 hours ago, observer90210 said:

Foreigners need to be sensible, don't buy any property in Thailand.

 

If the farang developper does not cheat you, somebody else along the food chain will try to scam you at one point.

 

Just as with ladies in Thailand, don't buy....rent !!!

I agree.........if you are stupid.

For myself, I've owned properties here since 1990, doubled my money on each one of them and haven't paid a single Baht in rent since I bought my first place.

[Matzzon]

5 hours ago, elliss said:

 

Foreigner, can buy land in Thailand , but can not own the land.

   That said many do buy land...

That´s incorrect. Not without BOI-credentials ora registred company, that you can not lagally own more than 49% of.

Foreigner can´t buy land for their wife or girl friend legally, like you probably mean. That is because the payment must be made out of her own money. If you given it in the past has no relevance. You might also be forced to sign a document that states you decline any rights or ownership in the land office.

[amykat]

3 hours ago, genericptr said:

totally agree but I want to build a little house on the mountain. ????

Oh, how cute.  Will it be in the protected land area where all the government officials who are majorly connected built their super expensive illegal homes ....will you just lease one next to them???  I hope you have several million $$.  Will you build it all out of teak too??

 

Maybe you should come rent a room first ...see how your Dad survives five years.

[MRToMRT]

1 minute ago, amykat said:

Oh, how cute.  Will it be in the protected land area where all the government officials who are majorly connected built their super expensive illegal homes ....will you just lease one next to them???  I hope you have several million $$.  Will you build it all out of teak too??

 

Maybe you should come rent a room first ...see how your Dad survives five years.

That is totally uncalled for and should be deleted.

[amykat]

Why?  I’m simply informing him that much of that view property that he might have been eyeing that seems available, is protected land, even if he sees houses there, and all Thailand is not so cheap.  

 

And maybe he and his Dad should learn a bit more before diving into more property since he indicated maybe his Dad is on a bad path already??  

[amykat]

And are you seriously telling me that you would suggest, at THIS time, that a new guy comes here and starts buying land and houses, as well as his son following, doing the same ...who will be their back up when it all goes South?

 

Good idea!!

[1FinickyOne]

3 hours ago, genericptr said:

totally agree but I want to build a little house on the mountain. ????

It is ok to do what you want as long as you understand that it might just be a gift to the land owner at some point. As long as you can afford that perspective, that it likely/possibly will never be sold and there never will be a profit or return on investment for you, enjoy. 

[Joe Mcseismic]

2 hours ago, Matzzon said:

That´s incorrect. Not without BOI-credentials ora registred company, that you can not lagally own more than 49% of.

Foreigner can´t buy land for their wife or girl friend legally, like you probably mean. That is because the payment must be made out of her own money. If you given it in the past has no relevance. You might also be forced to sign a document that states you decline any rights or ownership in the land office.

Incorrect, you can buy the land for your wife, but, you have to sign the waiver.

Land that I bought in 1999 in the wife's name and built my present house on, was before the waiver. My wife gave me a 30 year lease which is recorded on the back of the chanote.

[rumak]

2 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

I agree.........if you are stupid.

For myself, I've owned properties here since 1990, doubled my money on each one of them and haven't paid a single Baht in rent since I bought my first place.

+1

[rumak]

5 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Incorrect, you can buy the land for your wife, but, you have to sign the waiver.

Land that I bought in 1999 in the wife's name and built my present house on, was before the waiver. My wife gave me a 30 year lease which is recorded on the back of the chanote.

Correct info here.   I have also "bought" land in wife's name before 1999 and after.   Even better now is to have a usurfruct 

(sitti gep gin )  typed right on the back of Chanote .  This gives the person ( farang husband in most cases related to this thread)  right to use the land.  AND can be for the lifetime of such person.   Even if wife passes away nobody  else can steal or sell the land legally.  BUT, you will probably be told you must sell it within a certain time frame ( 6 months or a year).  

[Joe Mcseismic]

15 minutes ago, rumak said:

Correct info here.   I have also "bought" land in wife's name before 1999 and after.   Even better now is to have a usurfruct 

(sitti gep gin )  typed right on the back of Chanote .  This gives the person ( farang husband in most cases related to this thread)  right to use the land.  AND can be for the lifetime of such person.   Even if wife passes away nobody  else can steal or sell the land legally.  BUT, you will probably be told you must sell it within a certain time frame ( 6 months or a year).  

I recently renewed the 30 year lease three years ago. It will expire when I'm 88 years old (I'll never live that long). As it's a lease, if the wife dies, the land goes to her inheritor, but, the lease stands. No need to sell the land. Frankly, I think it is superior to an Usufruct. Also, quite a few land offices kick up a stink about registering an Usufruct to a foreigner, but, no problems with a lease.

[liddelljohn]

A foreigner can own land if he inherits it ,, i did own 19 Rai in kabinburi for 6 years which was left to me by my wifes mum   but have since transfered it to my daughter .

[rumak]

3 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

I recently renewed the 30 year lease three years ago. It will expire when I'm 88 years old (I'll never live that long). As it's a lease, if the wife dies, the land goes to her inheritor, but, the lease stands. No need to sell the land. Frankly, I think it is superior to an Usufruct. Also, quite a few land offices kick up a stink about registering an Usufruct to a foreigner, but, no problems with a lease.

I see your point.  All depends , I guess.   But if your wife died and YOU are the inheritor you would still have the same problem ( foreigner can not own.....at least that is how CM looks at it).  I had no problems do a usurfruct ( many times).    I like it because I feel I have a little more control legally.  Just my thought.

It is impossible for the land/house to be sold or transferred as long as I am usurfruct.  We have sold some properties and it could not happen until I as usufruct signed off .