Electronic cigarettes valued at 11.25 million baht seized in Mukdahan province

[DannyCarlton]

9 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

You were missing who sponsored your "evidence" 55555

These links are not sponsored by anyone.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/quit-smoking/using-e-cigarettes-to-stop-smoking/

https://www.nhs.uk/smokefree/help-and-advice/e-cigarettes

Some extracts:

 

"An estimated 2.9 million adults in Great Britain currently use e-cigarettes and of these, 1.5 million people have completely stopped smoking cigarettes. They carry a fraction of the risk of cigarettes and can be particularly effective when combined with extra quitting support."

 

"Public Health England's 2015 independent evidence review found that, based on the available evidence, vaping is around 95% less harmful than smoking. The Royal College of Physicians came to a similar conclusion in its 2016 report 'Nicotine without smoke: tobacco harm reduction'."

 

"E-cigarettes do not produce tar or carbon monoxide, two of the most harmful elements in tobacco smoke."

 

"There's no evidence so far that vaping causes harm to other people around you.

This is in contrast to secondhand smoke from smoking, which is known to be very harmful to health."

 

"While nicotine is the addictive substance in cigarettes, it's relatively harmless."

 

So, vaping is 95% less harmful than smoking cigarettes. Inhaling second hand vapours is harmless. It's a very effect aid for those who want to quit ciggarettes.

Where's the problem?

 

It's also worth noting that Thailand did not ban vaping on health grounds, it was due to concerns about loss of revenue from taxation on cigarettes. Also the Thai tobacco industry (the vast majority of cigarettes consumed in in Thailand are marketed by Thai companies) is a very powerful (and benevolent) lobby within The Thai government.

[sawadee1947]

45 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

These links are not sponsored by anyone.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/quit-smoking/using-e-cigarettes-to-stop-smoking/

https://www.nhs.uk/smokefree/help-and-advice/e-cigarettes

Some extracts:

 

"An estimated 2.9 million adults in Great Britain currently use e-cigarettes and of these, 1.5 million people have completely stopped smoking cigarettes. They carry a fraction of the risk of cigarettes and can be particularly effective when combined with extra quitting support."

 

"Public Health England's 2015 independent evidence review found that, based on the available evidence, vaping is around 95% less harmful than smoking. The Royal College of Physicians came to a similar conclusion in its 2016 report 'Nicotine without smoke: tobacco harm reduction'."

 

"E-cigarettes do not produce tar or carbon monoxide, two of the most harmful elements in tobacco smoke."

 

"There's no evidence so far that vaping causes harm to other people around you.

This is in contrast to secondhand smoke from smoking, which is known to be very harmful to health."

 

"While nicotine is the addictive substance in cigarettes, it's relatively harmless."

 

So, vaping is 95% less harmful than smoking cigarettes. Inhaling second hand vapours is harmless. It's a very effect aid for those who want to quit ciggarettes.

Where's the problem?

 

It's also worth noting that Thailand did not ban vaping on health grounds, it was due to concerns about loss of revenue from taxation on cigarettes. Also the Thai tobacco industry (the vast majority of cigarettes consumed in in Thailand are marketed by Thai companies) is a very powerful (and benevolent) lobby within The Thai government.

The concerns are about the ingredients in the liquid, most full of harmfull ingredients. Also about the habit of smoking. 

It's not about nicotine. 

[ThomasThBKK]

3 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

The concerns are about the ingredients in the liquid, most full of harmfull ingredients. Also about the habit of smoking. 

It's not about nicotine. 

You mean the food grade aroma/flavoring you have in all your food? - i hope you don't eat anything except homgrown vegetables? 

 

Are you talking about PG? 

Propylene Glycol is used in 

• Nicotine inhalers.
• Toothpaste and other oral hygiene products.
• Medical products used orally, injected or as topical formulations.
• Pet food (excluding cat food).
• Beauty products, including make-up, shampoo and baby wipes.

 

Etc. - i hope you don't use any of these? 

 

Research:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0015626472801937 

Quote

No carcinogenic potential was detected with dietary levels of propylene glycol up to 50,000 ppm, which was also established as the no-untoward-effect level in this study. This level is equivalent to an intake of approximately 2·5 g/kg/day.

 

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=00e7a774b7ce48a091abf0b33c9882f9&mc=true&node=se21.6.582_11320&rgn=div8 

Quote

Conditions of use. This substance is generally recognized as safe when used in accordance with good manufacturing or feeding practice.

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/91/1/52

Quote

Examination at autopsy likewise failed to reveal any differences between the animals kept in glycolized air and those living in the ordinary room atmosphere. Extensive histological study of the lungs was made to ascertain whether the glycol had produced any generalized or local irritation. None was found. The kidneys, liver, spleen and bone marrow also were normal.

The results of these experiments in conjunction with the absence of any observed ill effects in patients exposed to both triethylene glycol and propylene glycol vapors for months at a time, provide assurance that air containing these vapors in amounts up to the saturation point is completely harmless.

 

 

Are you talking about VG? 

Vegetable glycerin is used in: 

• Sweetener as sugar replacement.
• Beauty products, such as make-up, mousse, bubble bath, aftershave, and deodorant.
• Pet food.
• Soap and hand cream.
• Food such as baked goods, to increase moisture.
• To provide thick gel for certain medicinal creams, capsule pills and jellies.
• Toothpaste and other dental care products.

Research:

 

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=182.1320&SearchTerm=glycerin

Quote

Conditions of use. This substance is generally recognized as safe when used in accordance with good manufacturing practice.

 

https://www.cir-safety.org/sites/default/files/glycerin_0.pdf

Quote

When considering the safety of glycerin, the Panel noted that it is naturally occurring in animal and human tissues, including the skin and blood. The data demonstrated low oral and dermal toxicity for multiple animal species and humans, in both acute and long-term studies. There were little or no reproductive or developmental effects observed in oral studies using rats, mice, and rabbits. Glycerin was not genotoxic in multiple in vitro tests and was not carcinogenetic to rats in a long-term feeding study. This ingredient was not a dermal or ocular irritant and was non-sensitizing to guinea pigs and humans. The Panel also noted the high frequency of use that is reported for glycerin and the low instances of reports of toxicity, irritation, and sensitization in the literature and that glycerin is GRAS for food packaging and as a multiple-purpose food substance. This information helped to further reduce the Panel’s concern about the use of this cosmetic ingredient.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/08958379209145307

 

Quote

Ultrastructural examination of Clara cells did not provide evidence of proliferation of smooth endoplasmic reticulum in glycerol-exposed rats.

 

 

 

The last only other ingredient is Nicotine, which is optional.

 

 

PS: You must life a tough life without all the processed food, soaps, shampoo, toothpaste, medical products, asthma spray that you can't consume and use as you deem these to be dangerous ????

 

 

The only reason there could be anything other in there are because dumbass countries ban vaping and people buy crap on the blackmarket that is not regulated by the FDA and co like it is in Europe and the US.

[Tony125]

Vaping Is Bad. We’re Finally Starting to Learn How Deadly It Really Is

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/vaping-bad-finally-starting-learn-183326295.html

[DannyCarlton]

5 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

The concerns are about the ingredients in the liquid, most full of harmfull ingredients. Also about the habit of smoking. 

It's not about nicotine. 

What part of this did you not understand?

 

"Public Health England's 2015 independent evidence review found that, based on the available evidence, vaping is around 95% less harmful than smoking."

 

"An estimated 2.9 million adults in Great Britain currently use e-cigarettes and of these, 1.5 million people have completely stopped smoking cigarettes. They carry a fraction of the risk of cigarettes and can be particularly effective when combined with extra quitting support."

 

 

[DannyCarlton]

10 hours ago, Tony125 said:

Vaping Is Bad. We’re Finally Starting to Learn How Deadly It Really Is

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/vaping-bad-finally-starting-learn-183326295.html

"Public Health England's 2015 independent evidence review found that, based on the available evidence, vaping is around 95% less harmful than smoking. The Royal College of Physicians came to a similar conclusion in its 2016 report 'Nicotine without smoke: tobacco harm reduction'."

 

I'd rather take my information from the NHS and The Royal College of Physicians than Yahoo Lifestyle, thanks.

 

[Tony125]

3 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

"Public Health England's 2015 independent evidence review found that, based on the available evidence, vaping is around 95% less harmful than smoking. The Royal College of Physicians came to a similar conclusion in its 2016 report 'Nicotine without smoke: tobacco harm reduction'."

 

I'd rather take my information from the NHS and The Royal College of Physicians than Yahoo Lifestyle, thanks.

 

Public health England study was done in 2015. The study quoted in Yahoo lifestyle was done iin 2019  so 4 more years of collecting data and seeing the results of kids vaping.

[473geo]

3 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

"Public Health England's 2015 independent evidence review found that, based on the available evidence, vaping is around 95% less harmful than smoking. The Royal College of Physicians came to a similar conclusion in its 2016 report 'Nicotine without smoke: tobacco harm reduction'."

 

I'd rather take my information from the NHS and The Royal College of Physicians than Yahoo Lifestyle, thanks.

 

I think if you read the Yahoo link, instead of just blindly believing information you want to hear - you may note that while tar on the lungs will have reduced, and is good and a benefit, there are other concerns introduced that maybe should be taken into account rather than dismissed

[BestB]

2 minutes ago, 473geo said:

I think if you read the Yahoo link, instead of just blindly believing information you want to hear - you may note that while tar on the lungs will have reduced, and is good and a benefit, there are other concerns introduced that maybe should be taken into account rather than dismissed

If you read the article it mainly concentrates on teenagers and products like Juuls that deliver very high levels of nicotine and when I say high, I mean very high.

 

not all use juuls and not all use juice with nicotine, it is users choice.

 

once again no one ever claimed ecigs were harmless, but studies have shown is that it’s less harmful .

 

 

[473geo]

Just now, BestB said:

If you read the article it mainly concentrates on teenagers and products like Juuls that deliver very high levels of nicotine and when I say high, I mean very high.

 

not all use juuls and not all use juice with nicotine, it is users choice.

 

once again no one ever claimed ecigs were harmless, but studies have shown is that it’s less harmful .

 

 

Less harmful, yes, the points being raised are by how much exactly, and are there areas where it could be more harmful, it appears this maybe the case, at least enough to warrant concern, rather than a casual acceptance

[BestB]

3 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Less harmful, yes, the points being raised are by how much exactly, and are there areas where it could be more harmful, it appears this maybe the case, at least enough to warrant concern, rather than a casual acceptance

Not a single proper study supports this view but opinions of individuals

 

the UK was a proper study.

 

all problems sited in yahoo referring to problems in teenagers , so why not compare it to problems caused by smoking in teenagers also ? 

 

Why not point out that juice is available in wide ranges of low Nic to high Nic to zero Nic ?

 

they siting salt Nic problems where salt Nic is only 1 option, there are thousands more.

 

did they also consider no Nic or low Nic juice?

[473geo]

6 minutes ago, BestB said:

Not a single proper study supports this view but opinions of individuals

 

the UK was a proper study.

 

all problems sited in yahoo referring to problems in teenagers , so why not compare it to problems caused by smoking in teenagers also ? 

 

Why not point out that juice is available in wide ranges of low Nic to high Nic to zero Nic ?

 

they siting salt Nic problems where salt Nic is only 1 option, there are thousands more.

 

did they also consider no Nic or low Nic juice?

So would a study in 2015 identify if users tend to move up the nicotine scale after a period of time, would it have anticipated the collapsed lung?

Teenagers are human beings too, and are the group who will hit old age with the longest use, also the group with least smoke/nicotine into the lungs to complicate calculations, studying teenagers over a period of time will yield the most accurate results.

[BestB]

1 hour ago, 473geo said:

So would a study in 2015 identify if users tend to move up the nicotine scale after a period of time, would it have anticipated the collapsed lung?

Teenagers are human beings too, and are the group who will hit old age with the longest use, also the group with least smoke/nicotine into the lungs to complicate calculations, studying teenagers over a period of time will yield the most accurate results.

That’s not what the study was about . Study was on bad effects of vaping from my understanding in comparison to smoking.

 

yes good idea to look into teenagers but then compare it to smoking in teenagers, otherwise it’s misleading 

 

as as ex smoker I can tell you , initially I needed nicotine but as time went on I am on Nic free juices.

 

salt nics are made for pod systems , usually people who are in the process of giving up smoking .

 

i am yet to meet a vaper who uses pods after initial period 

[ThomasThBKK]

7 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

I can't remember inhaling them. 

When did you do so last time? ????????????

Troll somewhere else, you are obviously learning resistant, like many old people sadly, all studies show they have no effect on the human body.

There's nothing else to discuss, the whole teenage vaping crisis in the US is made up and fake.

 

The above linked study by Stanton Glatz has been debunked many times: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/07/17/vaping-heart-attacks-false-claims-sexual-harassment-allegations/1676473001/

 

The USA is a very corrupt country and these fake studies paid by so called lobbying - or how we say in Thailand corruption - are usual but never hold against facts. 

 

6 hours ago, Tony125 said:

Vaping Is Bad. We’re Finally Starting to Learn How Deadly It Really Is

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/vaping-bad-finally-starting-learn-183326295.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/07/17/vaping-heart-attacks-false-claims-sexual-harassment-allegations/1676473001/

https://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/news/vaping-news/2019-01-25_levy-on-glantz.html

 

 

Debunked BS, like every anti-vape story.

 

Quote

In addition, Glantz was the principal investigator on a five-year 2013 $20 million federal grant to research tobacco and e-cigarettes and serves the same role on another $20 million grant National Institutes of Health grant that runs until 2023. Glantz's two recent reports on vaping and heart attacks were funded through the first and second federal grants. He and Bhatta said in the reports that they had no financial disclosures to report. 

 

Quote

Levy et al began their smack-down of Glantz in polite fashion, calling out his “misconceptions” about how they’d run the study. Next, they pointed out that he’d failed to notice they’d done what he said they hadn’t.

 

Sad country. Very Thai style.

 

 

 

Quote

If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry

- SN

Edited August 17, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[Scott]

A troll post reported and removed.

 

[473geo]

Seems to me if vaping is not about absorbing nicotine, then the process is replacing the mothers nipple!

[Salerno]

On 8/17/2019 at 12:50 AM, Tony125 said:

No reply nesscesary I'll make no more comments on the matter .

 

10 hours ago, Tony125 said:

Vaping Is Bad. We’re Finally Starting to Learn How Deadly It Really Is

 

[Curt1591]

On 8/16/2019 at 1:31 PM, DannyCarlton said:

E- cigarettes are 95% safer than cigarettes. NHS guidelines.

Can we see the data / guideline?

[DannyCarlton]

6 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

Can we see the data / guideline?

Follow the accompanying links I provided.

[BestB]

6 hours ago, 473geo said:

Seems to me if vaping is not about absorbing nicotine, then the process is replacing the mothers nipple!

Like it or not but habit is a big problem of quitting 

[Rimmer]

Troll post removed

[473geo]

5 hours ago, BestB said:

Like it or not but habit is a big problem of quitting 

Agreed, habit is routine, so you change your routine - example below - this over a period of several months

 

smoking was banned at work - stopped smoking at work only smoked in the evenings and weekends

 

Decided if I could stop on work days, at work, I could try to manage without on evenings - did not stop on Friday evenings in the pub or weekends at home

 

Eventually not smoking work days, but 20 or more on Friday evening! - coupled with the alcohol intake felt rough on Saturdays did not fancy a cigarette, stopped smoking Saturdays

 

Never told myself I was stopping smoking only cutting down - cut out Sunday smoking, only left with heavy smoking Friday evenings in the pub and very occasional one offs

 

After a few more weeks cut out the pub for while on Friday evenings and stopped smoking for a few weeks

 

Started the pub again but never went back to cigarettes

 

Yep I would say breaking the habit is crucial, but for me even after many years to smell a cigarette would in my mind tell me I would still enjoy a smoke - eventually that has now worn off

 

No vaping required - no replacement habit

 

I have since cut down my drinking using similar methodology, now rarely drink, but never tell myself I have stopped, always allow for the occasional beer should I wish, for a long time now never felt the need

 

For sure less money going up in smoke, less money running away down the drain....

 

Life is good ????

 

 

 

 

[BestB]

13 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Agreed, habit is routine, so you change your routine - example below - this over a period of several months

 

smoking was banned at work - stopped smoking at work only smoked in the evenings and weekends

 

Decided if I could stop on work days, at work, I could try to manage without on evenings - did not stop on Friday evenings in the pub or weekends at home

 

Eventually not smoking work days, but 20 or more on Friday evening! - coupled with the alcohol intake felt rough on Saturdays did not fancy a cigarette, stopped smoking Saturdays

 

Never told myself I was stopping smoking only cutting down - cut out Sunday smoking, only left with heavy smoking Friday evenings in the pub and very occasional one offs

 

After a few more weeks cut out the pub for while on Friday evenings and stopped smoking for a few weeks

 

Started the pub again but never went back to cigarettes

 

Yep I would say breaking the habit is crucial, but for me even after many years to smell a cigarette would in my mind tell me I would still enjoy a smoke - eventually that has now worn off

 

No vaping required - no replacement habit

 

I have since cut down my drinking using similar methodology, now rarely drink, but never tell myself I have stopped, always allow for the occasional beer should I wish, for a long time now never felt the need

 

For sure less money going up in smoke, less money running away down the drain....

 

Life is good ????

 

 

 

 

Good on you but not everyone is strong willed.

 

i smoked for 25 years and tried all to stop without success . But disadvantage was I also enjoyed smoking. 

 

Vaping is what got me off smoking.

 

as they say horses for courses 

[richiejom]

This vaping ban is about money full stop.  The briefly tried to halt progress in countries like the UK with propaganda and regulations but in the end the Tobacco/Pharmaceutical companies decided they can't beat the vaping manufacturers so they joined them.  Thankfully in the UK the MPs stood up for progress.

 

From my experience the majority of people who oppose vaping are A) Smokers who have no willpower to help themselves  B)People who spread disinformation out of spite to people who have found something thats helping them or they have find the idea of vape clouds mildly annoying

 

The testimonials of the less harmful effects from vapers such as myself with virtually no coughing/hacking...together with medical evidence/ xrays/ NHS studies

 

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by richiejom

[Tony125]

 

[bizboi]

On 8/18/2019 at 3:16 AM, 473geo said:

Seems to me if vaping is not about absorbing nicotine, then the process is replacing the mothers nipple!

So we should stop all eating and drinking as well…thank you….move on!! Oh and next time can you check your English please?

Edited August 24, 2019 by bizboi
missing word

[bizboi]

Can we just summarise the findings here? Vaping is 95% less dangerous than smoking, that’s less dangerous than traffic pollution in a city by a long way…the reason why its banned is because it presents a threat to the corruption involved in cigarette tax!!! thats all there is to say!!

[Tony125]

4 hours ago, bizboi said:

Can we just summarise the findings here? Vaping is 95% less dangerous than smoking, that’s less dangerous than traffic pollution in a city by a long way…the reason why its banned is because it presents a threat to the corruption involved in cigarette tax!!! thats all there is to say!!

2 things, I think the new findings show it's maybe 1/3 to 1/2 as bad as smoking .  Secondly ciggarette smoking took decades to damgae lungs and show cancer deaths. These vaping reports of deaths and damage to lungs are showing up in months or a year or so of starting vaping not decades. Seemingly causing lung damage much faster than the ciggaretts although not nescessarily cancer.

[473geo]

5 hours ago, bizboi said:

So we should stop all eating and drinking as well…thank you….move on!! Oh and next time can you check your English please?

Only if you eat and drink through a straw,  as this possibly re-enforces the continued link to the mothers teat - vape away.....baby

[ThomasThBKK]

5 hours ago, Tony125 said:

2 things, I think the new findings show it's maybe 1/3 to 1/2 as bad as smoking .  Secondly ciggarette smoking took decades to damgae lungs and show cancer deaths. These vaping reports of deaths and damage to lungs are showing up in months or a year or so of starting vaping not decades. Seemingly causing lung damage much faster than the ciggaretts although not nescessarily cancer.

No it doesn't, all that <deleted> is from blackmarket thc cartridges. 

 

Why don't you just stop lying? Might make your life easier. 

 

https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/Unlicensed-marijuana-vaping-products-eyed-in-20-14369013.php

Edited August 24, 2019 by ThomasThBKK